WTF Meta Knight's Mansion??

[Kalm]

I got counter picked Mansion at my first tourny the other day. I didn't think anything of it because I know that the stage is supposed to be generally advantegous for DK. At least I thought it was, being new and ignorant.
We actually went to Mansion twice, I CP'ed it against him hoping to get lucky with Handslap, but he knew better and I never got it off. He broke the Mansion two to three times throughout the round and I eventually got the victory thanks to an UpB recovery no lag reverse DK Punch mindgame that pretty much dropped the jaw of everyone there.
When he brought me right back I didn't think it was that big a deal, but then he spammed Whorenado. He used nothing but it, spamming it honestly over 50 times, he racked up over 300% damage with that that one move in the round. I was clueless as to what to do, DownB never worked, and Bair knocked him out of it 1 our out 10 times. I didn't want to take the match to the second floor or top because I felt like he would just plank all day. I honestly had no clue what to do in response to nothing but whorenado. Can someone please help me here?

I figured Japes would be bad for DK vs MK too, but is Mansion seriously that one sided in MK's favor or was I just missing something?

Also, I've heard that Mansion was very possibly going to get banned, if anyone could elaborate that I'd appreciate it.

 

[KoSa!]

When fighting MK take him to brinstar, and you'll get quick kills at like 70%. But LM should also be very good, since he cant really get above you if your on the bottom floor. Wouldn't a reverse Utilt work to stop it. The problem with FD is the long killzones and you can't get the easy quick kills.

 

[K 2]

Doesn't a fully charged DK punch grant SA frames? Also, doesn't Up b have invincibilty?

 

[Denzi]

Doesn't a fully charged DK punch grant SA frames? Also, doesn't Up b have invincibilty?

Yes and yes, but finding the time to charge a punch vs MK is easier said than done.

And Brinstar is supposed to be DK's everything counterpick, so you might as well try there next time.

 

[Kalm]

He CP'ed it against me though. So does this mean I need to ban Luigi's Mansion because it's so very much in his favor?

I guess I'll have to try Utilt, but I full charged punches sure aren't going to pull it with the time it takes to charge. Is UpB really worth it?

 

[KoSa!]

He CP'ed it against me though. So does this mean I need to ban Luigi's Mansion because it's so very much in his favor?

I guess I'll have to try Utilt, but I full charged punches sure aren't going to pull it with the time it takes to charge. Is UpB really worth it?

The way I play is after I win a match with DK, then I usually switch characters to someone else. I never run DK twice if I can't cp a stage

 

[Kalm]

That makes sense to me, if he's going to counterpick something like Norfair I would really be better off using Ike in the match. If the MK just wants to spam Tornado on Mansion though I suppose I need to just ban it, because I can't think of a single thing to do there except break the Mansion itself, which would suck because MK will chase and plank me like crazy.

 

[-Mars-]

This should be common sense....especially if your playing a character that gets ***** by the nado. Take MK to a stage with low ceilings like Halberd or Corneria if you want a really good Meta-counterpick. I know DK does very well on Brinstar but I assume Mk does equally well.

 

[Kalm]

It wouldn't be so common sense to someone at their first tourny.

I don't know about Halberd, I'm sure MK can plank me all day there, Corneria actually sounds like a good one though. I'll remember that, thanks.

 

[KoSa!]

That makes sense to me, if he's going to counterpick something like Norfair I would really be better off using Ike in the match. If the MK just wants to spam Tornado on Mansion though I suppose I need to just ban it, because I can't think of a single thing to do there except break the Mansion itself, which would suck because MK will chase and plank me like crazy.

Don't waste a ban on LM. Use the ban on a stage that would affect DK no matter what character he choose. I ban RC or sometimes Halbred. Recently I picked up Diddy and Halbred becomes no promblem anymore.

This should be common sense....especially if your playing a character that gets ***** by the nado. Take MK to a stage with low ceilings like Halberd or Corneria if you want a really good Meta-counterpick. I know DK does very well on Brinstar but I assume Mk does equally well.

But DK's main kill moves kill horizontally. Except for Uair, and Usmash which is unviable(vs MK), are his big two Utilt might also work. Granted MK lacks Veritcally kill moves so i see it as a viable cp. Corneria used to be my cp since its easy to kill everywhere, you have a wall for infins and Reverse Cargo Dthrow of the ledge can put your enemy in bad positions. I suppose you can pick it, but Brinstar is way better.

 

[itsthebigfoot]

start of match, roll behind pillar, charge punch, shield grab mk's approach, bthrow, roll behind pillar, finish charge

there, you now have a charged punch, his tornado lost its value

japes is actually good for dk vs mk though, you live REALLY long if you can get the upb brake

 

[KoSa!]

start of match, roll behind pillar, charge punch, shield grab mk's approach, bthrow, roll behind pillar, finish charge

there, you now have a charged punch, his tornado lost its value

japes is actually good for dk vs mk though, you live REALLY long if you can get the upb brake

Very bad opening actually lol. Roll past pillar charge for a little, then jump on upper level and continue to charge up. Proceed running away, and around pillars while getting 2-3 winds up at a stop. Uspecial braking works beautifully on Japes, when sent to the right side just land in the water and its perfect. Pirate ship is also good for braking just land in the water again. Brinstar and Norfair are good but only when the lava is up, and you have to take the knockback plus lava damage... Better than helplessly freefalling on BF awaiting stomp in the mouth O_o

 

[Kalm]

Well, this is against a person who ONLY plays MK. On that matter, why would anyone use a different character against DK if they main MK?

So everyone is saying the Punch is all there is too it when it comes to stopping tornado. Run away, keep it charged, and fight normally, keeping it ready to use when tornado pops out.

Braking is just DI + Jump followed by instant UpB right?

 

[itsthebigfoot]

DI + bair followed by upb

 

[Kalm]

got it, as soon as I get the Bair out out I can upB right after, and that cuts off tremendous amounts of launch distance

Can I use this to stop vertical too? And hope for hitting the ledge or something?

 

[itsthebigfoot]

yeah, it stops all launch distance in any direction

 

[Kalm]

Thanks a lot for the info guys, I think this will mean a lot to my DK game.

Last thing, I'll ask again.
Is Mansion possibly going to get banned altogether, is this being debated or what?

 

[daisho]

Actually DK has a ton of options for hitting metaknight out of is tornado. The trick is to make sure that you hit MK in the center so if he is approaching you slightly off the ground then reverse u tilt, fsmash if you time it right (not usually a good idea) or angled f tilt will all work (as well as the punch). If for some reason he is basically on the ground you can down b or down tilt, but i have never seen this. You can also shield the tornado succesfully. If you do get stuck in the tornado you can slowly mash up and jump and you should get out of it.

For mansion, i think people mentioned in the thread that this stage is good for meta, but so good for DK its worth it.

Don't expect him to walk into the handslap. At 0 you can dthrow him into it or you can use the wall for other stuff like cargo up to dsmash. Cargo up to handslap in theory should work unless hit techs, but I have never done it.

If he is only spamming tornado then just stand on one side and ftilt, its not so difficult to get the timing and works almost all the time.

A reason meta might go for a CP against DK is that the matchup is even or maybe a slight meta advantage, maybe he would go for a diff char that ***** DK more (not that there are that many).

 

[CBK]

Lol at MK's on my Mansion, you just need to know their little tricks so your big ones will **** the **** out of them.

 

[Kalm]

That was very infomative.

 

[crifer]

yeah be at a safe distance is the only solution to this, ftilt range,
and then downB to gay him, too...

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

For me halberd is never a problem. The low ceilings lets me get early D-smash kills, and the side are somewhat large and easy to survive.

 

[Mith_]

For me halberd is never a problem. The low ceilings lets me get early D-smash kills, and the side are somewhat large and easy to survive.

LOLOLOLOL im sorry that was too good.

 

[CBK]

Look MK's can actually tornado above Fsmash on pillars the best way to handle that is jumping SA punch or nine wind, Or Dsmash as they tornado towards you. It hits them and the start gettingscared of tornado. Just make sure to keep them at max distance so they can't really do anything to you.

 

[Tujex]

Hmmm...I learned something new here!

 

[KoSa!]

Does the Utilt kill on Halbred fairly quick? If so, I guess I can see it as a viable cp. You can ledgedrop Uspecial from one side to another. You lose Cargo SS but you can spike people trying to return underneath the stage. When the stage lands on the ship, you can actually walk off cargo Dthrow, to shoguard. Everyone without muti jumps or isn't GW loses to this. And you can easily throw him into the harzards

yes...yes... it can work.

 

[daisho]

Does the Utilt kill on Halbred fairly quick? If so, I guess I can see it as a viable cp. You can ledgedrop Uspecial from one side to another. You lose Cargo SS but you can spike people trying to return underneath the stage. When the stage lands on the ship, you can actually walk off cargo Dthrow, to shoguard. Everyone without muti jumps or isn't GW loses to this. And you can easily throw him into the harzards

yes...yes... it can work.

We were actually talking about against Meta and halberd vs meta would be a bad idea... he can up b and nado through the stage and it makes it almost impossble to stop him.

 

[Kalm]

cargo throw to laser = win

Also, being able to Upb through the platform almost always guarantees getting back. At least its just a great option to have that shouldn't be ignored. I still don't think this is such a great option against certain characters like MK and Kirby because you would risked getting the hell planked out of you.

 

[highandmightyjoe]

Don't waste a ban on LM. Use the ban on a stage that would affect DK no matter what character he choose. I ban RC or sometimes Halbred. Recently I picked up Diddy and Halbred becomes no promblem anymore.



But DK's main kill moves kill horizontally. Except for Uair, and Usmash which is unviable(vs MK), are his big two Utilt might also work. Granted MK lacks Veritcally kill moves so i see it as a viable cp. Corneria used to be my cp since its easy to kill everywhere, you have a wall for infins and Reverse Cargo Dthrow of the ledge can put your enemy in bad positions. I suppose you can pick it, but Brinstar is way better.

I know I'm probably crazy, but I like DK on Rainbow. I also rarely use Mansion. My stages basically consist of BF and Yoshi's as my favorite neutrals, and for cp Japes and Pictochat. I only go Brinstar for a few matches but it's really useful for those matches.

Also, you left out Dsmash for DK's vertical kills, which is like, the bestest move ever.

And on the ban issue, I just think that in general, rulesets in brawl will be more region based than those in Melee. I've actually seen some places put stages on neutral that others put in banned. This came up a lot after CoT4, where a lot of players where surprised by the stage list. Where I play, Mansion and Japes are probably both going to get banned soon, which is why I'm practicing more on Pictochat.

 

[KoSa!]

I know I'm probably crazy, but I like DK on Rainbow. I also rarely use Mansion. My stages basically consist of BF and Yoshi's as my favorite neutrals, and for cp Japes and Pictochat. I only go Brinstar for a few matches but it's really useful for those matches.

Also, you left out Dsmash for DK's vertical kills, which is like, the bestest move ever.

And on the ban issue, I just think that in general, rulesets in brawl will be more region based than those in Melee. I've actually seen some places put stages on neutral that others put in banned. This came up a lot after CoT4, where a lot of players where surprised by the stage list. Where I play, Mansion and Japes are probably both going to get banned soon, which is why I'm practicing more on Pictochat.

I play almost every map just for variety. But any stage with a tall vertical killzone is bad for dk. Pictochat hurts alot. No really cargo SS, and no more Dsmash like you said. But you can do that new UpB tech and you can Fsmash kill soon. The epic Bthrow works wonders. Not a good cp IMO only if I doubling with someone

We were actually talking about against Meta and halberd vs meta would be a bad idea... he can up b and nado through the stage and it makes it almost impossble to stop him.

UMMM... yea I know

 

[daisho]

UMMM... yea I know

Am I missing something??? If you know then why did you put it in this thread...

 

[KoSa!]

lol cause someone was talking about halbred as his cp or something. I know mk ***** DK on this map, I already suggested that you play him on Brinstar,Corneria, or Deflino. I wondering about Pirate ship. If he nados below the platforms it will AC and maybe an Utilt or Uair can be used. Survival is good due to UpB braking. The floatyness and the other hazards can help you. Since the sling shot can kill him and the bombs are going to interrupt his random rapeage. Links boat can help to since he lacks a projectile and a reverse Utilt should stop anything he does

 

[highandmightyjoe]

I play almost every map just for variety. But any stage with a tall vertical killzone is bad for dk. Pictochat hurts alot. No really cargo SS, and no more Dsmash like you said. But you can do that new UpB tech and you can Fsmash kill soon. The epic Bthrow works wonders. Not a good cp IMO only if I doubling with someone

Yeah, you can't vert kill there, but a lot of the transformations are good for DK. The only real downside is the high vertical blastzone as you said, which is why I like to take other vertical killing characters there. This stage is very nice against characters like Fox.

 

[Mith_]

Yeah, you can't vert kill there, but a lot of the transformations are good for DK. The only real downside is the high vertical blastzone as you said, which is why I like to take other vertical killing characters there. This stage is very nice against characters like Fox.

Fox can still kill snake on halberd at like 90somethin%. DK cant use SKbraking for to survive a vert kill.

 

[Kalm]

Corneria and Brinstar are better choices for CP's against MK simply because the boundaries are so small, you can truly exploit your weight advantage and KO power while nullifying MK's recovery. These are stages where Bthrows and fresh Bairs can tear it up. I think I'd rather go to both these stages than Japes for MK and for that matter a few characters that are like him. Falco, GW, and Olimar for example. Olimar especially would be great on Brinstar because there are so many ways to shut down his grab game and getting raw KOs.

We're kind of straying off of subject I think. This thread is supposed to be specifically about CP's against Meta Knight? I dunno, I guess as long as we're talking productively it's all good.

 

[crifer]

Just now i realized that pictochat is hella fun, bc it takes DK´s cargo to max of usefullness....
Also I like Norfair, IDK which characters there have a advantage, but I officially name it the DK bair stage!
It´s great bc
- you can always approach under the opponent with uair or bair,
- DK kills really early on the side plattforms, you can use fair good for this.
- you dont have to worry as much about the vertical boost you get from upB
- cargo people in the lava
- in the "capsule" you can use grounded upB or downB really good to damage the opponent.

I wrote this in a other thread, too.
What do u think about this?
I´m remembering Inui @ CoT4 complaining about this stage,
"It wasn´t his fault that he and atomsk lost"
Sorry if it wasn´t Inui, I´m not quite sure.

 

[Kalm]

Norfair feels like a great stage for DK.

-The platforms compliment his air game very well, especially against a character like MK.
-I'm pretty sure you can spike through most of the platforms.
-The potential stage damage will almost always be a great threat to the opponent, who should be lighter.
Cargo throw them into crap.
-You can use UpB like crazy here after only a few minutes of practice. UpB can be canceled by ledges and dropped with no lag on platforms. You can actually use UpB to travel across the stage here, which is fast and confusing for the opponent.
-The walls and ceiling are both low enough to where you'll kill easily.

If you can pull it off, opening the capsule and cargo carrying the foe into it is a perfect setup to stupid amounts of damage.

I feel like this could be as good as it gets vs MK. With Corneria and then Brinstar trailing behind.

 

[Mith_]

DK just owns Norfair. It's like Falco and Japes.

 

[crifer]

good to see that Im right with norfair^^