Would any of the Mii characters be considered viable in competitive play?

[Monk of MaZe]

I know at one point they were played and apparently got a little more attention recently because of customs but how well would a Mii do in a recent tournament without any customs?

 

[Scarlet Jile]

All of the Mii's special moves are unlocked by default and "customs," really, so I'm not sure why would you play them without the ability to pick which ones you wanted. But if you mean Mii fighters with the 1111 moveset and default size, then only Mii Brawler is moderately viable. With optimal size and the right sets, though, Mii Brawler is at the top of the list and Gunner has a lot of potential.

 

[Monk of MaZe]

All of the Mii's special moves are unlocked by default and "customs," really, so I'm not sure why would you play them without the ability to pick which ones you wanted. But if you mean Mii fighters with the 1111 moveset and default size, then only Mii Brawler is moderately viable. With optimal size and the right sets, though, Mii Brawler is at the top of the list and Gunner has a lot of potential.

No but from what my friends say the items you can attach to Miis(the boots, gloves, etc.) won't affect their speed, attack, and defense unless customs are turned on. So I guess what my questions is without those added stats are the Miis viable?

 

[ParanoidDrone]

No but from what my friends say the items you can attach to Miis(the boots, gloves, etc.) won't affect their speed, attack, and defense unless customs are turned on. So I guess what my questions is without those added stats are the Miis viable?

Given that the equipment you speak of is banned even at customs-on tournaments, yes, the Miis are viable without them. Their custom specials are basically mandatory though.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Miis desperately need their alternate (they're not custom) specials; with them, Gunner is viable and Brawler is high tier.

 

[Raijinken]

1122 and 2122 Brawler are absolutely glorious. Gunner becomes a somewhat more mobile Samus. Swordfighter... still has issues but is slowly being discovered.

 

[T0MMY]

I know at one point they were played and apparently got a little more attention recently because of customs but how well would a Mii do in a recent tournament without any customs?

As a Mii main and one who has had to deal with the custom zealots I can tell you from experience they were not played because of customs - exactly the opposite!

The custom zealots were pushing for Custom Fighters ON as the standard being pushed on everyone and one of the tactics they used were to make a stance that Mii fighter's Special Attacks must be considered custom attacks without the game function agreeing with this conjecture. Their argument was that if they could make people believe Mii fighters are actually using "customs" then it wouldn't be "fair" for the other characters.
Because of this dirty tactic, Mii fighters were banned/restricted in a very scrubby manner - pretty much held hostage. And it went beyond that, even today there are scrubby tournaments that use rules restricting Mii fighters to a certain height/weight because it's not "fair" that other characters don't have that option (never mind the fact that some characters do not have the option to change their gender, jump 5 times in the air, or use FLUDD, etc.).

Further thoughts on the competitive aspects ramifications of this topic:

Spoiler

Ultimately any argument of "fair" regarding characters should be seen as scrubbery; all players have equal opportunity to choose their character and utilize the character to its potential. Just because they may have some kind of character loyalty in their head doesn't mean out-of-game rules need/should be pushed to attempt to balance the game to meet the expectations of a scrub. Hence taking us to what is referred to as competitive rule #3: Play the Game.

 

[Judo777]

With no height and weight restrictions and any allowable custom moves, mii brawler is ridiculously good. Maybe the best character in the game.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Mii Brawler is probably tied with Sheik as the best character. But he is kinda boring and doesnt even have half her depth.

 

[Esquire]

Mii Brawler is probably tied with Sheik as the best character. But he is kinda boring and doesnt even have half her depth.

I wouldn't go as far as to say that Mii Brawler is a Top 2 character just yet. I don't think Brawler's metagame has developed far enough to make MU judgments about the character just yet, especially in regards to what characters perform well against Brawler. Not only has Mii Brawler been given a small amount of exposure compared to other characters, but customs in general haven't been explored thoroughly yet either. I have a few characters that come to mind that could tangle with Brawler, even Tiny Brawler. Granted, even with all this I personally believe that Mii Brawler will end up Top 5 or Top 7 at the worst, but Top 2 is stretching it for the moment.

@ T0MMY makes a very good point about how Miis have been treated in tournament environments, and he's not wrong: a lot has influenced the understanding of what Miis are as characters, which resulted in a lot of negative consequences for Mii mains. People who are proponents of custom moves have the usability of custom moves as their "risk", but still can fall back on non-custom formats when a decision is handed down. Mii mains, on the other hand, have the usability of their characters at stake. It's a very important topic for Mii mains, and one that needs to be handled separately from Custom moves if Custom moves are ever to be banned.

Now, to the point of the topic: Mii Brawler, as many pointed out, is an amazing character in this game. One of the most mobile characters in the game, an insane true combo game stemming from DThrow and other various combo starters, and really good combo-enders. I could go on and on, but I'll leave it here for now.

Mii Gunner is probably the least explored of the three Mii characters for some reason (probably stemming from the community pegging it as a "middle of the road" character, which results in even less incentive to play than low tiers), but I can tell you that Mii Gunner has some /amazing/ tools that make it extremely hard for characters to approach while also having those same tools be used to help itself approach. I think there's a lot of upside to Gunner, even through its flaws (lack of reliable kill moves, some laggy moves overall, average to below average recovery options, etc.).

Mii Swordfighter, simply put, is not the worst character in this game. It is, however, no higher than the top 75% of the cast for sure. Mii Swordfighter has a ton of neat tricks and tools to work with, including two awesome projectiles, decent recovery options, a reflector, a counter, and some really great core moves (including what is probably the best UAir in the game bar Diddy Kong's). However, Sworfighter is kind of a "jack of all trades, master of none" character, and the lack of range as a sword user, the lag on his KO moves, and the general uselessness of some of his moves (FTilt, BAir, etc), plus lack of kill options, makes it hard for Swordfighter to distinguish himself from other characters. In my personal opinion, you're better off using Toon Link instead of the EVO standard Mii Swordfighter.

 

[Pazx]

there are scrubby tournaments that use rules restricting Mii fighters to a certain height/weight because it's not "fair" that other characters don't have that option (never mind the fact that some characters do not have the option to change their gender)

New signature.

 

[Mario766]

Get that sig out for smashladder too, since Anther just added a 1111 mii rule because a guy ******* when he lost to a brawler on ladder

 

[T0MMY]

Get that sig out for smashladder too, since Anther just added a 1111 mii rule because a guy *****ed when he lost to a brawler on ladder

... wow... should we set our teacups down long enough to riot?

 

[warriorman222]

Get that sig out for smashladder too, since Anther just added a 1111 mii rule because a guy *****ed when he lost to a brawler on ladder

I was laughing for 10 minutes straight. Then i found out you were serious. I creied for 10 minutes straight and passed out, then spent 10 minutes planning out a riot.

In all seriousness, this is the stupidest thing ever. Seriously? Now our mains are not just unviable, but almost unusable. You may as well have given us mercy and banned them, because the way they are , if you use them, you are as good as banned form winning. Thanks Anther.

 

[DunnoBro]

Mii fighters were banned/restricted in a very scrubby manner - pretty much held hostage. And it went beyond that, even today there are scrubby tournaments that use rules restricting Mii fighters to a certain height/weight because it's not "fair" that other characters don't have that option (never mind the fact that some characters do not have the option to change their gender, jump 5 times in the air, or use FLUDD, etc.).

In no way are mii sizes comparable to outfit changes (or apparently the initial and only way characters function 100% of the time like multi jumps or fludd) beyond obvious aesthetic changes.

I don't really know or care much about the legality of sizes, or if sizes are inherently an issue, but this comparison is irrefutably faulty. Using girl robin doesn't give you more speed or more range like changing mii sizes does.

 

[T0MMY]

In no way are mii sizes comparable to outfit changes (or apparently the initial and only way characters function 100% of the time like multi jumps or fludd) beyond obvious aesthetic changes.

I don't really know or care much about the legality of sizes, or if sizes are inherently an issue, but this comparison is irrefutably faulty. Using girl robin doesn't give you more speed or more range like changing mii sizes does.

To completely destroy your argument: I have used Girl Robin as a counterpick specifically because my opponent was scared of hermaphrodites. They were so nervous the entire time they looked at the image of Girl Robin (who was once Boy Robin) that they self destructed all their stocks and forfieted the final round.

Until I find someone who is scared of ******* I think Mii height/weight is a complete non-issue in comparison and obviously not faulty..

 

[Pippin (Peregrin Took)]

Well that escalated quickly....


I'm not in the same league as DaPuffster and T0mmy when it comes to the Miis but they are the characters I go to most often. I tried playing 1111 Guest Brawler at Xanadu and actually did okay with him, but I definitely like having the other options better.

I really want to see height and weight fleshed out more even with customs off however. I really feel like the Miis could do better if they were smaller, even if the smaller height was the only one allowed. I personally can only play as gunner in customs on tournaments because despite an alright 1111, the default version is so darn slow.

EDIT: Besides being a "more mobile Samus", Gunner might be worth looking into if you played a lot of Snake in the Brawl days. The 3rd B neutral and B side moves are VERY similar and I wonder if some of what made Snake great in Brawl could transfer over to this character.

 

[digiholic]

Damnit, Anther's Ladder is the only way I can get human experience with Miis.

**** it, I just got my adapter working on PC, I'm going to play Melee instead.

 

[DunnoBro]

Damnit, Anther's Ladder is the only way I can get human experience with Miis.

**** it, I just got my adapter working on PC, I'm going to play Melee instead.

Nintendodojo allows miis

 

[T0MMY]

Damnit, Anther's Ladder is the only way I can get human experience with Miis.

**** it, I just got my adapter working on PC, I'm going to play Melee instead.

I've found myself saying this.
If it weren't for my poor wrists keeping me from being able to play Melee competitively anymore I'd abandon the ship the SSB4 scrubs are sinking us on and go back to Melee. That game has been around for so long because it was the start of the competition that we competitive players support. None of this limiting/banning characters and other out-of-game rules.

The Melee golden years were so much fun.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

As a Mii main and one who has had to deal with the custom zealots I can tell you from experience they were not played because of customs - exactly the opposite!

The custom zealots were pushing for Custom Fighters ON as the standard being pushed on everyone and one of the tactics they used were to make a stance that Mii fighter's Special Attacks must be considered custom attacks without the game function agreeing with this conjecture. Their argument was that if they could make people believe Mii fighters are actually using "customs" then it wouldn't be "fair" for the other characters.
Because of this dirty tactic, Mii fighters were banned/restricted in a very scrubby manner - pretty much held hostage. And it went beyond that, even today there are scrubby tournaments that use rules restricting Mii fighters to a certain height/weight because it's not "fair" that other characters don't have that option (never mind the fact that some characters do not have the option to change their gender, jump 5 times in the air, or use FLUDD, etc.).

Further thoughts on the competitive aspects ramifications of this topic:

Spoiler

Ultimately any argument of "fair" regarding characters should be seen as scrubbery; all players have equal opportunity to choose their character and utilize the character to its potential. Just because they may have some kind of character loyalty in their head doesn't mean out-of-game rules need/should be pushed to attempt to balance the game to meet the expectations of a scrub. Hence taking us to what is referred to as competitive rule #3: Play the Game.

Custom zealots pushing scrubbery? That's a new one. The pro-custom side is the side that wants not to ban stuff arbitrarily. No it's not fair for Miis to have more moveset options than the other characters when the game comes with 12 special moves packed in for every character except Mewtwo (but Mewtwo as an exception is enforced by mechanics). The solution isn't banning all moveset combinations but one for every character including or not including Miis. The solution is not banning custom moves and letting everyone use what they want. Why would pro-custom people entertain the idea of randomly banning only some moves but not others? We solved the logistics so I really don't want to hear about them; things like what is or isn't unlocked from the start are not valid arguments at all at this point, and there is literally zero harm to clicking that customs on box (literally the only option it removes is the option to pick random, a useless option at that). Customs legal is winning nationally so I also don't see the side where scrubbish opinions are sinking the community; as far as I can tell, the 4 community is moving forward in as healthy of a way as possible to be less ban-happy which is really important (looking at more rules and more bans as solutions to problems was one of our biggest problems in Brawl; letting people just pick whatever they want and rocking with it is so much better for the game).

---

To answer the question directly, Mii Brawler is a very strong character, Mii Gunner is passable (probably about mid tier), and Mii Swordfighter is generally regarded as pretty low tier but especially after the patch buffed him I think has enough juice to be a functional character at least (he's way better than Zelda at least!). They tend to only be legal with customs on (which constitutes a huge chunk of competitive play at this point so I don't understand the phrasing in the OP) and they have muted player interest compared to other characters, but they've performed decently well.

 

[T0MMY]

Custom zealots pushing scrubbery? That's a new one. The pro-custom side is the side that wants not to ban stuff arbitrarily. No it's not fair for Miis to have more moveset options than the other characters when the game comes with 12 special moves packed in for every character except Mewtwo (but Mewtwo as an exception is enforced by mechanics).

There's a difference between Custom Zealots and just being pro-customs. If you keep up with the posts it's not new at all, but it does take a discerning eye because the zealots are more often than not also waving the Custom Movement banner, which is just about the worst thing for the Custom Movement.
I see myself as pro-custom (but as a side-event like Doubles and integrated smoothly for the community to accept if it so wants). But I am completely against the Zealots who have been making a mess of things like the Mii Hostage Crisis and Complain-bombing posts.
Also, the game doesn't "come with" 12 specials for every character sans Mewtwo, it comes with a ridiculous way to farm for "for fun" specials that can be unlocked by RNG farming and future characters have not and seem not to get these special attacks - How is THAT fair?
Oh, that's right, "fair" has no meaning in competition outside of the fairness principle. Crying "fair" is actually the scrub motto, so I'd be careful how you use it if I were you.

The solution isn't banning all moveset combinations but one for every character including or not including Miis.

Who said anything about banning?
Could you give me a quote on this?

Mistaking a standard in Game Settings with out-of-game rulings (scrubbery unless warranted) is a misunderstanding of competitive theory.

Spoiler

Custom Fighters: OFF is the default standard of the game so we start with that and move on with a smooth integration. Anything else than this is what I would call a travesty against pro competition standards dating back from time immemorial.

and there is literally zero harm to clicking that customs on box (literally the only option it removes is the option to pick random, a useless option at that).

"literally zero" is not the reality I've witnessed from the tourneys I've attended/hosted.
When someone asked if we were using customs for my last tournament I hosted (standard Custom Fighters: OFF) I was expecting something like "why not, EVO is using it!" instead I got a "Good, those suck!"
At the last Custom-only (no option to have a more standard no-custom event) tournament I attended and did not host the sentiment was about the same. This sentiment was echoed by some of the top players in Washington, Oregon, and NorCal.
Although your words may be comforting, I am dealing with a reality rather than rhetoric.

Customs legal is winning nationally

This sounds too much like creating an "Us vs Them" issue.
Integration and acceptance is much more my standard. Why not have both sides happy?

so I also don't see the side where scrubbish opinions are sinking the community

Argument from ignorance. Come to my home town if you'd like and see how many people like when you turn customs on so Janky Kong and Planking Villager can keep my attendees from returning.

as far as I can tell, the 4 community is moving forward in as healthy of a way as possible to be less ban-happy

Again, stop thinking in terms of bans, that is just asinine. Washington players are conspiring to jank any tournament that utilizes customs (which some have adopted due to EVO shenanigans) and I am about ready to join them because there's no option to have them ON or OFF in some kind of "my way or the highway" Us vs Them scendario.
I am thinking Infinitchu's thunder wave is my style of jank.

By the way, can I talk to you in person at EVO about these things?

 

[clydeaker]

But if you mean Mii fighters with the 1111 moveset and default size, then only Mii Brawler is moderately viable. With optimal size and the right sets.

Because of this dirty tactic, Mii fighters were banned/restricted in a very scrubby manner - pretty much held hostage. And it went beyond that, even today there are scrubby tournaments that use rules restricting Mii fighters to a certain height/weight because it's not "fair" that other characters don't have that option (never mind the fact that some characters do not have the option to change their gender, jump 5 times in the air, or use FLUDD, etc.).

With no height and weight restrictions and any allowable custom moves, Mii brawler is ridiculously good. Maybe the best character in the game.

Wait a minuet... Dose the hight and weight of the Mii you use really affect the game play?

 

[Mario766]

Yes.

Height and Weight change power, reach and speed of the character.

 

[clydeaker]

Yes.

Height and Weight change power, reach and speed of the character.

I had no idea! Thank you for letting me know. Now if you excuse me I'm going to make some new Miis and do a few tests to make the best Mii fighter that I can.

 

[Scarlet Jile]

Basically, the smaller the better. The advantage of having larger miis is negligible.

 

[clydeaker]

Basically, the smaller the better. The advantage of having larger miis is negligible.

I agree to some extent. After doing a few small tests I found that yes, the smaller and skinnier the Mii is the better speed and mobility it has. However your attacks won't have as much damage, knock-back, and range. In my opinion the best Mii fighter is short to medium height and skinny to medium size, but that's just my opinion.