Q&A "Worthy Opponents Indeed!" - Match-up Q&A Thread

[Ultimastrike]

How does Arcfire to FSmash work? It might be the trouble I'm having with the input, but it feels like FSmash comes out too late to capitalize on the Arcfire trap. Is it a positioning thing?

Arcfire->FSmash is based on your spacing and who you are fighting. Normally I'd rather go Arcfire->FSAir so that Levin can kill.

 

[Blueman12]

We all seem to be discussing problem matchups lol. I have another one :D

Yoshi.

Seriously the dino can literally do whatever he wants, his egg zoning and teleport glitch (has that been fixed?) are far too good, and he's reasonably fast enough to weave in and weave out of our comfortable range and zoning. We could challenge him in the air with our range but if a yoshi approaches from the air he's doing it wrong. And i dont think fire wall would be as useful as it would be against characters like Little Mac :/ good yoshis are a huge pain to fight. Any tips?

 

[Delzethin]

I played like 20 matches in a row against a really good Yoshi a while back. I stopped getting my ass handed to me when I started using tilts and n-airs to keep him at arm's length.

Also, don't let him get directly below or above you.

I imagine somewhere like Battlefield would really help against him, giving us platforms to land on or hide below so he can't juggle us as easily and can't pressure us with d-airs or ground pounds.

 

[Ultimastrike]

I played like 20 matches in a row against a really good Yoshi a while back. I stopped getting my *** handed to me when I started using tilts and n-airs to keep him at arm's length.

Also, don't let him get directly below or above you.

I imagine somewhere like Battlefield would really help against him, giving us platforms to land on or hide below so he can't juggle us as easily and can't pressure us with d-airs or ground pounds.

His grab range can be problematic, though, since it has range similar to a tether with a dash grab. I at least agree with Delzethin on one thing, though: Battlefield is helpful for Robin here. Also, a side note: I'm curious as to how long Yoshi's SA lasts when he's Flutter Jumping. If that happens to go past Thoron, then the only thing we'll have is Levin Sword to beat Yoshi off-stage with along with Arcfire.

 

[Mr. Johan]

iirc Yoshi's Flutter Jump can only take 17% worth of damage before its down. A full power Thoron can theoretically do the job, but by the time the cumulative 17% is met, Yoshi has SA'd his way out of Thoron's hitboxes.

 

[Mac2492]

Robin can gimp Little Mac so easily it's almost unfair. As soon as you get Little Mac off the stage just follow up with Nair. The horizontal knockback complete prevents him from recovering. His only response is an Up B or a Side B, both of which will result in his death. If he air dodges then you lose nothing. He will give you hell on the stage, but if you get him off the side even once then you can KO at 0%. Zone with Arcfire and Arcthunder. Don't try to play the ground melee game with him. That's exactly what he wants. Just take it off the stage and you win.

 

[Ultimastrike]

Robin can gimp Little Mac so easily it's almost unfair. As soon as you get Little Mac off the stage just follow up with Nair. The horizontal knockback complete prevents him from recovering. His only response is an Up B or a Side B, both of which will result in his death. If he air dodges then you lose nothing. He will give you hell on the stage, but if you get him off the side even once then you can KO at 0%. Zone with Arcfire and Arcthunder. Don't try to play the ground melee game with him. That's exactly what he wants. Just take it off the stage and you win.

That's not always an answer...because Mac can do the same to Robin despite how low he goes. All Mac needs is to Nair then Footstool and GG. Robin needs to be smart about his tilts vs. Mac due Mac's rushdown speed, but aside from that get him in the air and juggle him with UAirs. UTilt Landing Traps are fun, too. Arcfire forces Mac to jump(because rolling past it makes him eat either Arcfire itself or an FTilt if Robin's close) or wait out Arcfire to give Robin time to charge Thunder.

 

[Moonlighter]

Robin can gimp Little Mac so easily it's almost unfair. As soon as you get Little Mac off the stage just follow up with Nair. The horizontal knockback complete prevents him from recovering. His only response is an Up B or a Side B, both of which will result in his death. If he air dodges then you lose nothing. He will give you hell on the stage, but if you get him off the side even once then you can KO at 0%. Zone with Arcfire and Arcthunder. Don't try to play the ground melee game with him. That's exactly what he wants. Just take it off the stage and you win.

He can counter you in the air. You could bait the counter out, but Little Mac isn't totally defenseless to n-airs.

 

[Moydow]

He can counter you in the air. You could bait the counter out, but Little Mac isn't totally defenseless to n-airs.

But if Mac whiffs a counter off stage or at a ledge...

So it may not be such a huge problem, unless the Mac fully expects it to connect.

 

[Mac2492]

I'll have to play more Little Mac matchups but having him go for an Nair gimp seems like a dangerous play against Robin given the speed and power of her Uair.

It's actually decent if you force him to Counter in the air. That's not exactly a safe option for him given you have the option to defer your attack and spam projectiles. Arcfire and Arcthunder also hit through his Counter if I remember correctly.

On the topic of counters/reflectors, Robin is pretty good punishing them. Arcfire, Arcthunder, and possibly held Thoron last long enough to hit through most Counter moves (just don't be beside them). A whiffed counter also sets you up for Nosferatu or a smash. Reflectors have been mentioned as an issue for Robin, but I love playing against them. I'll start off using projectiles carefully. If they don't ever reflect then there's no problem. If they start reflecting then the game has begun. Most people expect Arcfire spam from a Robin. Anticipate a reflector when you would normally Arcfire and punish with a tilt or aerial. I would hold Thoron over Arcthunder because the projectile speed makes it difficult to respond to. Most players will start shielding/reflecting haphazardly when you're holding Thoron. Only shoot it off during hitstun or as a punish. In about 100 matches I've been hit by my own spell about two or three times. You have to be more conservative but the matchup isn't necessarily against you.

 

[Ultimastrike]

I'll have to play more Little Mac matchups but having him go for an Nair gimp seems like a dangerous play against Robin given the speed and power of her Uair.

It's actually decent if you force him to Counter in the air. That's not exactly a safe option for him given you have the option to defer your attack and spam projectiles. Arcfire and Arcthunder also hit through his Counter if I remember correctly.

On the topic of counters/reflectors, Robin is pretty good punishing them. Arcfire, Arcthunder, and possibly held Thoron last long enough to hit through most Counter moves (just don't be beside them). A whiffed counter also sets you up for Nosferatu or a smash. Reflectors have been mentioned as an issue for Robin, but I love playing against them. I'll start off using projectiles carefully. If they don't ever reflect then there's no problem. If they start reflecting then the game has begun. Most people expect Arcfire spam from a Robin. Anticipate a reflector when you would normally Arcfire and punish with a tilt or aerial. I would hold Thoron over Arcthunder because the projectile speed makes it difficult to respond to. Most players will start shielding/reflecting haphazardly when you're holding Thoron. Only shoot it off during hitstun or as a punish. In about 100 matches I've been hit by my own spell about two or three times. You have to be more conservative but the matchup isn't necessarily against you.

On Counters, Arcthunder/Thoron are go-to spells for that, though Arcthunder punishes first frame on contact. As for Reflectors, a smart Robin needs to mindgame their projectiles and be aware of what the opponent could expect. Most Robins I see when they're fighting Reflector users(Palutena, Fox, Falco, and so on) tend to get in with Levin more than not. Fox, Palutena, and Falco are probably the hardest people to punish(or are near impossible to punish) using Projectiles in general due to the near-instant frames they get from their Down Special and Palutena's Side Special. The only safe one against such is Arcfire, considering it's at an angle.

Here's a good example on when to punish Nayru's Love:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWbDG_fJO_0

 

[Ultimastrike]

Guys, I think we need to look at Diddy more considering how he can plain counter us with his entire arsenal. I for one am struggling heavily with him and it's frustrating enough that I just give up on the MU. It feels more like he can 8-2 0-death you nearly.

 

[Demonstormkill]

Sorry Ultimastrike, I don't have enough experience vs. Diddy to contribute. All I know is he seems to get in fast, he's hard to read, and has pretty safe moves all round. I feel like you'd almost have to play a good amount of Diddy to understand the MU. I think I'll try playing him soon.

I have some basic MU questions that I'd like to just put down here in case anyone cares to comment:

Zelda: How do you guys feel about this matchup in general? From what I've seen it's good in that we force her to approach most of the time and have some kind of range advantage with the sword. That said, she also has a reflector. Vectoring up plus Nayru's Love can sometimes get her out of Arcfire and stuff our follow-ups as Arcfire hits us instead. Projectiles are generally less safe and she's less prone to positioning traps because of her teleport. When recovering, Robin's head is totally vulnerable giving an opportunity for spikes with Zelda's DAir. Mixing in high recoveries has been a temporary solution to this problem for me, but it doesn't feel reliable longterm.

Greninja: A problem matchup, I'm pretty sure. Are we forced to approach always/sometimes because of shuriken? What are the best options to play actively against Greninja without becoming an easy target for a DACUS (not useful for him) USmash? Outside of Thoron or Arcthunder, can we pressure him from any range?

Lucario: How do the projectile games stack up? I find it's pretty hard to charge since his aura ball is more spammable than thunder. Once he's at high %'s, does anyone have ideas for kill setups so we don't have to worry about his aura claiming a stock he has no business taking?

Villager: Fair. Fair. Fair. Fair. Pocket. Fair. I lose. What to do?

 

[Scarf Wynaut]

Hi all,
I couldn't find any other place to discuss this topic in this forum so I decided to make a thread, hope u don't mind. I haven't been messing with any other character besides Robin so I've been losing / winning vs the same groups of characters so I thought we could list them here and discuss how to counter / deal with those characters. Keep in mind these proposed match-ups are in no way shape and form final

-'ve Match-Ups

• 
  Thought we might start with the most dangerous of the bunch. My rosalina games are pretty horrible. Luma eats up any approach I can think of, then Rosalina proceeds to have her way with me. Rinse, repeat. Robin's projectiles are completely useless due to her Down B. Can't grab her because of Robin's pitiful grab range + poor dash grab, and Luma's existance. The usual. I can't be the only one experiencing this. Even been losing to crappy rosalina's. It's like my skill is reduced to zero whenever I'm up against one. If you've been having an easy time with Rosalina pls share your knowledge + info :^]
• 
  &
  
  (Maybe even
  
  ) The deadly trio. Very, very fast, overwhelm me with their speed. They literally dash up to me quicker than I can lay down an Arcfire to interrupt their running. The former two have quick projectiles that block Thoron-charging, pretty much ensuring camping obselete. Even if Thoron is charged up all the way, the funny thing is all three can crawl under it and remain unscathed. Beating these three is far easier than Rosalina in my opinion because of Arcfire, which helps start up strings or allow for an easy Nosferatu to recover off damage. Pretty much more than half of their moveset comes out quicker than any of my moves and they get strings off pretty easy.

If I made any errors please feel free to correct me,
happy discussing :]

 

[Moydow]

Well for Rosalina the same applies for pretty much everyone - get rid of Luma first. One or two hits should knock it off the edge, and failing that it only has about 50 HP anyway. For the others you mentioned, you probably want to focus on using quick, low-lag moves like tilts. They're generally too quick for magic and Levin smashes, unless you get an opening.

 

[Jade_Rock55]

I agree speedy characters are a pain...Space arcfires and wait an d punish is all I got.As for secondaries I use Shulk and Greninja.

 

[Hong]

@ S Scarf Wynaut

Even though your thread briefly dabbled into secondary prospects, it's just another match-up thread with how it's panning out, so I merged yours into it.

In regards to the thread, news on 1.0.4 is rolling in. In addition to the known nerf on Luma's respawn timer (8 seconds up to 13), there is a report that the loading screen tip on the Wii U version suggests that Rosalina can no longer command Luma while being grabbed.

This is not an official confirmation, but I'd just like to throw this out there. If this is the case, we'll have a bit more control overall and a little extra damage with pummel opportunities.

 

[Scarf Wynaut]

Yeah, sorry bout that thread issue, didn't notice that this has been created already haha. as for this..

Lucario: How do the projectile games stack up? I find it's pretty hard to charge since his aura ball is more spammable than thunder. Once he's at high %'s, does anyone have ideas for kill setups so we don't have to worry about his aura claiming a stock he has no business taking?

Both Lucario and his aura sphere are too slow to disrupt Thoron charging to at least Elthunder stage
(assuming Robin's on the opposite edge of the stage like at the beginning of a battle). If not, I find it
a good time to charge when either Lucario or Robin have been launched away. Charging neutral b can
be interrupted with an air dodge, then you can recover as normal. As for kill setups I find arcfire -> Uair
to reliably KO opponents. if I can I'll try to include some kill percents of robin's common kill moves against Lucario

Spoiler: Lucario Kill Percents

THE AURA IS WITH ME
- Arcfire -> Uair on a Lucario in FD : Begins killing at 125%
- Thoron vs Lucario: Begins killing at 175% when positioned in the middle of FD
- Elwind starts to spike and kill Lucario at 100% when on the same plane as FD
- Down Smash starts killing Lucario at roughly 125% in the middle of FD
- Down Smash starts killing Lucario at roughly 115% a character's length away from the edge
- FSmash starts killing Luke at roughly 117% in the middle of FD
- Back Air starts killing at roughly 115% in the middle of FD
- Back Air starts killing Lucario at roughly 99% a character's length away from the edge

Nailing Elwind might prove very difficult due to how quick lucario's Up B, but an Arcfire / Arcthunder
followed by any of the aforementioned attacks at the correct percent will net you a successful KO.
Hope I helped :^]

 

[Mr. Johan]

With the patch out, I think it's worth going over the Ike, Shulk, and Marth/Lucina matchups in the near future, since they're likely to see a lot of usage now.

 

[PK Gaming]

I love how most of our worst matchups got nerfed. Like, it feels like only Sonic really shuts us down now.

Though new bad matchups might appear, so it's important to stay vigilant.

 

[Mr. Johan]

I honestly don't see how Sonic's a pain in the neck, but that may be because I mained Sonic back in Brawl, and afaik his general gameplan didn't change all that much inbetween games so I know what to look for.

It's a challenging matchup, sure, but its doable. Is there something I'm missing out on?

 

[Moonlighter]

I'm just hoping those Little Mac roll nerfs are actually real. It's silly how hard it is for Robin to punish them even when you read correctly.

And I think the problem with Sonic is just that I don't think there's a good way for Robin to punish most of his approaches and he's just too slippery to lock in place with your projectiles. My foremost problem is just inexperience, though. I'm ashamed to say I've lost more stocks than I care to admit from a scrubby For Glory Sonic endlessly spamming Homing Attack.

 

[PK Gaming]

I honestly don't see how Sonic's a pain in the neck, but that may be because I mained Sonic back in Brawl, and his general gameplan didn't change all that much inbetween games so I know what to look for.

It's a challenging matchup, sure, but its doable. Is there something I'm missing out on?

His general gameplan didn't change, but his reward for doing... just about anything changed dramatically. His footsies game is better than ours, full stop. Shield grab beats many of our option up close, so you pretty much have to guess against him. Don't even think about grabbing up close, because if you whiff, you're eating a grab. Generally, it's just hard to hit him. He has an option for long range zoning (spindash rolls under thunder and cancels elthunder) Arcfire is decent against him, but he's capable of springing out of it to avoid followups. When it comes to pure damage attrition, he'll come out on top due to his obscene damage potential.

Also, Robin is pretty free against him off stage.

 

[Bobert]

Speaking of the patch, Zamus can't pull an infinite on us anymore.

 

[Ultimastrike]

I think we might need to go over Shulk, considering the damage buffs he received in 1.0.4, along with making Speed more viable due to its set x0.8 damage multiplier.

 

[Bobert]

Any tips for Vs. Samus? She's really annoying to fight and can spam more projectiles at us than we can to her and has good spacing options so it's harder to approach her.

 

[MageyMage]

One of the people I regularly spar with has mained ZSS since brawl, and is easily one of the best ones in Southern Ontario. She is definitely one of our hardest matchups (along with LM barring gimps, Greninja, Yoshi and Diddy), and victories are won through consistent reads and outplaying, rather than having sufficient tools for an even matchup. You will be fighting an uphill battle the whole match, and the hundreds of matches I have played with him and a few others lead me to believe the matchup is a 6:4 ZSS favor at best.

A good ZSS will always be dictating the pace of the match and the onus is on you for punishing mistakes and soft/hard reads for opportunities.

- Her sheer speed prevents camp and stage control
- Aerials are quick to come out with little ending lag, couple this with her amazing aerial mobility and she can aerial to force a double jump, or aerial to force an air dodge and be ready for a new attack the second your invulnerability frames end for free hits.
- Practically everything she does combos, especially out of grabs, she racks up damage like no tomorrow.
- Multiple options for kill moves, and many of them are safe. Some even combo out of her grabs at higher percents, leading to almost guaranteed kills
- Blaster blocks everything but thoron (gl charging it). Stun Shots (Dsmash and charged blaster) combo into w/e she pleases, including kill moves. Getting stunned on the ledge is a free spike or w/e she feels like doing to you. Teching off the wall during the spike is possible sometimes though.
- Multiple spacing tools and high priority moves with range ruin your day. Her Fsmash even clanks with arcthunder and arcfire, preventing damage (dat boot tip).
- Being knocked offstage is a nightmare. Prepare to spend a good portion of the match fighting to get back up without dying, because she has so much range and ledge options with lingering hitboxes just about everything you do to get up can be punished easily.
- Almost everything she does is safe on block, especially because of our god-aweful grab options. Not to mention because of her attack speed she beats pretty much everything we can do OoS.
- She has a great roll and it can be hard to deal with because of how fast she can act afterwards. Requires really good reads here.

Despite all this Robin can still hold his/her own and the matchup is certainly winnable, and Robin does certainly have tools to win, but it will always be a struggle against an equally skilled ZSS player. Again, I am pretty confident this is a 6:4 matchup in their favor, I literally almost play nothing but robin vs ZSS. If anyone wants more details on this matchup I would be happy to provide! Maybe I will start uploading videos of it as well.

What I wouldnt give for a better grab/grab range and pummel. Just that alone would help us out so much. Also note that this is with the standard moveset, not custom moves, RNG has been hating me thus far and I have not unlocked anything for Robin. Perhaps custom moves could really shift the matchup or balance it out.

 

[Laggalot101]

Can I ask for some advice on the Pikachu matchup? I played against a really good Pikachu last night on For Glory, me using Robin. It wasn't pretty. First game we traded the first stock pretty evenly because my opponent hadn't adapted yet, but after that I quickly lost. The second game (and final) game was an absolute disaster though. I got completely destroyed, being 2-stocked with only 70% on Pikachu. I don't think I'm good/knowledgeable enough to comfortably yell 'counter!', but this matchup definitely looks very unfavorable right now. I'll name a few points.

- Thunder Jolt is absurdly difficult to deal with; the most difficult in Pikachu's entire arsenal for me. It generates a lot of pressure on the slow Robin. It clashes with Thunder and Elthunder, and though I didn't get to see it, I'm pretty sure it stops Arcthunder as well. Only Thoron can break this assault. I tried Arcfire, but it is really difficult to land on Pikachu due to how small it is, and I can't exactly spam it either.
- Blocking T-jolt gets me grabbed consistently, and I haven't found rolling to be very productive, either. Next most logical idea is jump over it, but Pikachu seems to punish the landing very easily with a grab or up-smash and Robin's aerials don't hit small, grounded opponents (again, like Pikachu) very easily at all.
- T-jolt messes with Robin's vertical Elwind recovery. This is particularly noticable on box-shaped Omega stages. The Pikachu player just sat there spamming neutral-B. The only thing I found myself capable of doing was just spam up-B and work through the jolts, at the cost of taking a ton of % in the process. I was lucky that Elwind didin't run out during all this.
- Thanks to the T-jolt that I've mentioned several times now, Pikachu forces Robin to approach... which I find incredibly difficult. I imagine a stage with platforms would mitigate this issue to at least some extent, but of course, in For Glory you obviously don't have this freedom.
- Up-throw into Thunder. I know I can DI (Vectoring got taken out, right?) out of it, but is either side, in front or behind pikachu, preferred over the other?
- Pikachu's recovery seems practically impossible to gimp. I tried Elwind once, I think, but it seemed as though Pikachu just passed straight through it...
- I believe it's called B-reverse Thunder (I am terrible with terminology)... it seems quite potent against Robin, once again due to his recovery being primarily vertical.
- Pikachu can duck underneath all of Robin's thunder-projectiles, Thoron included. That said...
- The one positive in this match-up that I can find, is that if Robin manages charge Thoron (which I stupidly didn't think to do in the second match, whenever I did have space), it's a good tool for punishing constant jump T-jolts, due to the landing lag and the multi-hit property of Thoron.

This is all the points I could discover. Anyone got any advice on the things I have or haven't mentioned? Maybe I'm missing something very obvious?

 

[Blueman12]

I agree on what @ M MageyMage was saying. 6:4 ZSS, i similarly have a friend who mains her and i spar regularly with him. Not too awful but hard for us. Arcfire/Wall REALLY helps against her though, although for the wall i have been grabbed through it before so try to be preemptive. if at any point the ZSS uses the down+b flip kick to approach, (which my friend did a few times to avoid arcfire) go ham and LSUair. Just keep your head on straight and avoid being grabbed too much and you can stick it to em.

@Laggalot, I believe its annoying but not too disgusting of a matchup. Pikachu has NO ARMS, so holding them at arms length (nair, bair, fair) is the best bet against the rat. Pikachu isn't too heavy so properly timed LSAerials can end it pretty quickly. Robin can short hop --> airdodge with no landing lag if you airdodge IMMEDIATELY after you short hop (unlike heavier/less floaty characters) so i you're close enough you could do shorthop/airdodge -->land--> dtilt for a quick, safe reaction to their zoning. Punish accordingly if they roll towards you, or if they roll away you're establishing the dominant position, so arcfire right back. Or if you're feeling janky, replace dtilt with nosferatu if they decide to spot dodge.

 

[Laggalot101]

I wasn't aware of that trick. This sounds to me like it would be common knowledge, yet I've never seen any mention of it. I'm gonna try that out the moment my 3DS's battery stops being dead. Gonna have to see what sort of applications this has. Thank you!

 

[RhyRhychan]

Man, ever since I saw Robin I knew I wanted to play her, and she is my main, and I love her..but it just seems like all of her matchups are terrible against all decent characters, depending on the player and reads I can body people, but against a good Shiek, or Greninja.. or when I streamed yesterday and one of my viewers took out their god like Lucina... like.. when they rush you down, and their aerials outrange or beat yours.. ugh it's just so hard. And her grab! It's so slow, and all her moves have to much lag at the end, AND I feel thoron should have a lot more knockback than it does. I love Robin.. and her playstyle, but this game makes it really hard sometimes lol. I haven't had a problem with Mac yet, but does anyone have any suggestions on fighting a super rushdown, aerial pressue/side b pressure Lucina?

 

[Blueman12]

@ RhyRhychan , If a Lucina ever goes ham in the air they are doing it wrong, just shield whatever aerial attack they do against you and stay put on the ground, i wouldn't challenge a Lucina in the air unless they miss-space an aerial and you can Levin sword. Preemptive Arcfires not explicitly aimed at the Lucina I find forces the Lucina to approach from the air or by roll, to which you can also react accordingly. Charge Thoron if they decide to wait. Let them make the mistakes such as hitting your shield with stuff, but beware Shield Breaker. I'd say its even for Robin, look up Roll Canceled Grab for some advanced tech that boosts Robin's grab range by a great deal.

Robin never really -owns- any matchup, either we have the 6:4ish advantage where we can hold others at bay or we struggle. I feel you on the decent characters struggle, characters like Mario and Yoshi are really bad matchups for Robin I find because they're so easy and herpy derpy :/

 

[JHamron]

I killed a Shulk at 110% with a B Throw(While he was in Smash. That was probably what threw him off into the dead zone).

Probably not a very good Shulk if he's using Smash at such high percentage. For reference, his best bet would've probably been Shield, but I'm just picking up context clues.

 

[Ultimastrike]

...Shulk would go into Smash if his opponent was at High Percent. So technically it'd give him an edge when smashing.

 

[Master Morrison]

Im a robin main and I love him a lot actually
I have problems with little macs
Well pro little macs anyways
All the other dash attack scrubby ones I don't
I zone out with short hop arch fires and wait for him to jump over then go for punishes
Fire jab is great
But what really helps me get all my kills are throwing broken tomes and levin swords
I haven't seen many people talk about that yet
Did you know that they can kill at relatively low damages and it knock them into unfavorable situations like very far off stage
Also if they shield them they do massive shield damage and the books and swords bounce right off in an angle to be picked up again they can be shield poked on the second throw or break their shield on the third item that they shield
It's crazy
Also nair is super fun
I love it and use it as a gimping tool
It has enough horizontal knock back that it will gimp most of the cast and it can combo into itself

 

[Vonn Hennings]

I have picked up Robin recently and my friend uses Bowser. I found it to be more of an even matchup if the spacing can be kept. If not, Bowser is going to smash Robin one way or another. Another friend was fighting me with DK and I found those matches to be fairly easy, other than when he got in real close. He began to use the air to his advantage using the spike which I wasn't able to counter with u-air.

Bowser Notes:

• Fire Breath easily stopped
• Bowser Butt Bomb really dangerous, removes spacing fairly easily
• F-smash will go through Arcfire sometimes
• Grounded U-special will counter a lot of Robin's attacks

DK Notes:

• D-air very hard to counter
• Arcfire stops the Ground Pound at the correct distance
• Thoron very helpful against DK, goes through most of his smashes
• D-Special fairly helpful punishing Headbutt and Super Punch

 

[RhyRhychan]

Fire jab is great

I love fire jab too, but half the time I try to do it I spam it to fast and get wind jab, lol.

 

[Master Morrison]

I stall it out or slow it down because they can di out of the last hit
So if they di out I usually either reset the situation or grab them
It usually connects with fast falling characters but not floaty characters

 

[MageyMage]

So from what I have seen Mega Man can also give you a ridiculously hard time too. His lemons alone negate half your moveset (beats, interrupts or clangs with everything but Thoron). His grab range and out of shield grab is very very good, making every other approach option unsafe and results in a follow up then a reset back to lemon and saw spam. He has a lot of kill options, and in general is fairly safe. Hell, his neutral B will kill you off a ledge below 100% uncharged most times. Looks to be another 6:4 matchup against Robin, unless there is a more reliable way to deal with him barring reads and outplays.

 

[Master Morrison]

I never have problems with megaman
He has no reflects so you can spam away at him and also your broken levin sword and tomes go through all his projectiles and do massive damage and knock back
If he is over 100 and next to the edge or in the middle of the stage then he will either die or be forced to recover
Also we can Elwind spike him if he recovers low
And if he recovers high we can pressure with thunder or nair
Nair is a great gimp tool
We have a lot of options
You need to think outside the box
We have a total of 4 tomes to break
Wind fire thunder and dark
You don't want to break the wind tome
But if you never use nosferatu
Then break it and throw it
Just don't do it so obvious
It take four uses before it breaks and just like that you have a portable smash attack at any range
And it's sadly stronger and quicker than all your smashes
Just keep in mind if you break any tomes you can't use those spells for about 10 seconds
Except for nosferatu
It will be out for like 40 seconds or so so you will hardly miss it