Q&A "Worthy Opponents Indeed!" - Match-up Q&A Thread

[Dathx]

eden isnt positive vs me -.-

I'm just going by what he told me. Said he's 2-1 against you in tourney with Falcon a while back. Sounded right to me because you guys rarely meet in bracket.

 

[TheHypnotoad]

What do I do against Link? I was playing a typical For Glory Link, and I actually lost because Robin has barely any approach options. I can't charge Thunder, because Link's projectiles are faster and spammier. And If I try to get up close, he would just use jab, because Link's jab is freaking amazing.

Also, what do I do against Sonic? I've always hated this matchup, because it's damn near impossible for Robin to punish anything that Sonic does. (I was actually playing against a Sonic player on For Glory earlier today who beat me and changed his tag to "ROBINS GAY", which is ironic, considering he was playing as Sonic.)

 

[Janno]

so vs link you just need to powershield his projectiles and fair him on shield. After the fair mixup with landing jab oder landing dash grab or use your double jump to get behind him. Link doesnt really have a great oos option besides nair.
After he is in the air he gets kinda useless. For glory dair will probably work (lol) but offline you can punish dair for free. Otherwise he can pretty much only land with nair oder airdodge, wich is botch an easy punish with arcfire.

vs sonic thou dont use arcfire, like at all. Only charge thunder to arcthunder when he is offstage, otherwise rely on thunder and elthunder. shield alot and try to find out how he is going to approach you. You definitely can punish some of sonics approaches. Your Fair > his side/down b. Also jab beats alot of his approaches. Dont go offstage, he can edgeguard robin with ez with his springboard, dair, bair, fair w/e. When he recovers shoot a side b on the ledge since sonic recovery is kinda straight forward.
this is a tough match up, especially online lol

 

[Dathx]

What do I do against Link? I was playing a typical For Glory Link, and I actually lost because Robin has barely any approach options. I can't charge Thunder, because Link's projectiles are faster and spammier. And If I try to get up close, he would just use jab, because Link's jab is freaking amazing.

Also, what do I do against Sonic? I've always hated this matchup, because it's damn near impossible for Robin to punish anything that Sonic does. (I was actually playing against a Sonic player on For Glory earlier today who beat me and changed his tag to "ROBINS GAY", which is ironic, considering he was playing as Sonic.)

The biggest problem was you were playing for glory. Not only are you forced to FD (which is easily the worst for both of those MUs), but power-shielding Link's projectiles is impossible. Ordinarily, you can choose to power shield link projectiles --> charge to thoron --> punish projectiles or outrange/out-frame data him close range. Always go out for edge-guards against him, and try to keep thoron charged for punishes.

Sonic on FD feels impossible for Robin. On other stages you can camp platforms and throw spells (rarely arcfire). Then when sonic retreats to the air after a spin dash approach you can easily chase him down and start building damage. Generally you won't hit him on the ground unless he runs into a projectile or makes an un-safe landing.

 

[Raziek]

Minor point, as I agree with everything else, but I think Lylat is arguably worse than FD for fighting Link.

 

[TheHypnotoad]

Can you also go more in depth on the Meta Knight matchup? You said that Robin can just camp the edges and then checkmate, but actually landing a grab on a character as small and fast as Meta Knight seems kind of difficult. I personally hate that matchup, but it might just be because the best player in my region plays Meta Knight and I always lose to him.

 

[Nu~]

How does Robin fight little Mac or mega man?

One walls you out with the A button due to our ****ty speed and one confounds you with dumb ground mobility and crazy combos in CQC.

I know Dathx and Raziek say that thoron beats mega man's entire tool box, but I don't see how we are charging Thoron up that easily when our speed is trash and mega man just lights you up.

 

[TheHypnotoad]

How does Robin fight little Mac or mega man?

One walls you out with the A button due to our ****ty speed and one confounds you with dumb ground mobility and crazy combos in CQC.

I know Dathx and Raziek say that thoron beats mega man's entire tool box, but I don't see how we are charging Thoron up that easily when our speed is trash and mega man just lights you up.

Against Mega Man, make sure to stay airborne almost all the time. Don't try to camp, he is better at camping than you are. Be aggressive, do lots of sh fairs and tomahawks. His recovery has no hitbox, so if you get him offstage, go for nair gimps.

I personally despise the Little Mac matchup, so I can't give you much advice on that one.

 

[Nu~]

Against Mega Man, make sure to stay airborne almost all the time. Don't try to camp, he is better at camping than you are. Be aggressive, do lots of sh fairs and tomahawks. His recovery has no hitbox, so if you get him offstage, go for nair gimps.

I personally despise the Little Mac matchup, so I can't give you much advice on that one.

That was the main problem. His Nair keeps stuffing my sh fairs

 

[Nah]

With Mac you basically want to avoid FD/Omegas/Smashville at all costs, I'm pretty sure the matchup is waaaaaay better on platform-heavy stages. If you're stuck playing on one of those, you do what I do on For Glory: pray that he makes a big mistake so you can get him offstage, where he almost auto-loses.

Vs (a competent) Mega Man, idk what you're supposed to do.

 

[TheHypnotoad]

With Mac you basically want to avoid FD/Omegas/Smashville at all costs, I'm pretty sure the matchup is waaaaaay better on platform-heavy stages. If you're stuck playing on one of those, you do what I do on For Glory: pray that he makes a big mistake so you can get him offstage, where he almost auto-loses.

Vs (a competent) Mega Man, idk what you're supposed to do.

Every Mac main I know says Smashville is his worst stage. The main stage you want to avoid besides FD is Town and City. FD and Town and City are pretty much Mac's only good stages. Battlefield will be your primary choice against Mac for Robin, since Robin does meh on Smashville.

 

[Nah]

Every Mac main I know says Smashville is his worst stage. The main stage you want to avoid besides FD is Town and City. FD and Town and City are pretty much Mac's only good stages. Battlefield will be your primary choice against Mac for Robin, since Robin does meh on Smashville.

Smashville is actually a bad stage for Mac and T&C is good for him? Why's that?

 

[TheHypnotoad]

Smashville is actually a bad stage for Mac and T&C is good for him? Why's that?

I'm not sure why Smashville is bad for Mac, I'm just quoting the Mac mains I know. But T&C is good for Mac for two reasons: 1) for part of the stage transformations, it turns into FD, which as we all know, Mac loves; and 2) Mac likes to kill off the top with usmash and KO Punch, and the lower ceiling on T&C helps this. Hence why Battlefield is good against Mac, because it has a higher ceiling.

 

[Janno]

Mac cant do anything if you just stand in the plattform on smashville. He needs to double jump to even got on the plattform which is way to risky for someone like him. Since his aerials basically never shieldpoke he cant do sh**

 

[EleH]

So how well does Robin fair against R.O.B? I got projectile camped hard today and I couldn't seem to really get through with my Arc Thunders...

Any MU advice?

 

[TheHypnotoad]

I personally hate that MU. R.O.B. is a pain especially for slow characters, since gyro covers ground approaches and laser covers air approaches. You can't outcamp him, so don't bother. Your best approach option will be tomahawks, so take advantage of those. Fair is just as useful as ever, but I would say it's even more useful in this MU because R.O.B. is so big and easy to hit. Just make sure to space them properly so that they're safe on shield. Also, powershield every gyro he throws at you. If you powershield 9 out of 10 gyros, you're not powershielding them well enough.

For stages, do not ever take R.O.B. to Town and City or Dream Land. Always ban Town and City against him.

Lastly, when recovering, recover very close to the stage, not from far away.

 

[EleH]

I personally hate that MU. R.O.B. is a pain especially for slow characters, since gyro covers ground approaches and laser covers air approaches. You can't outcamp him, so don't bother. Your best approach option will be tomahawks, so take advantage of those. Fair is just as useful as ever, but I would say it's even more useful in this MU because R.O.B. is so big and easy to hit. Just make sure to space them properly so that they're safe on shield. Also, powershield every gyro he throws at you. If you powershield 9 out of 10 gyros, you're not powershielding them well enough.

For stages, do not ever take R.O.B. to Town and City or Dream Land. Always ban Town and City against him.

Lastly, when recovering, recover very close to the stage, not from far away.

Alright, I think I got it. Thanks for the feedback

(P.S. What's a tomahawk?)

EDIT: Thanks ARGHETH

 

[ARGHETH]

(P.S. What's a tomahawk?)

An empty short hop, basically, used to make the opponent think you'll attack with an aerial. If they shield, you can grab or something.

 

[Casey Chase]

I faced a good Dr. Mario yesterday. Whenever I jabbed him, he was always able to up-special out of it (which cost me two games lol). Fire jab was the worst, as it isn't even a true combo, but he was also able to do this whenever I used wind jab. Is there any way around this? I hate being in an advantaged state and something like this kills me.

 

[EleH]

I faced a good Dr. Mario yesterday. Whenever I jabbed him, he was always able to up-special out of it (which cost me two games lol). Fire jab was the worst, as it isn't even a true combo, but he was also able to do this whenever I used wind jab. Is there any way around this? I hate being in an advantaged state and something like this kills me.

Only use jab at low %'s because the good dr. is nutty like that. You'd be better off using stuff like ftilt and fair for spacing because jab isn't very fast anyways. The only thing I can think of is just kinda sit there with the wind jab and wait for him to overshoot the Jump Punch and then punish. Otherwise, just stop using jab at high %'s.

 

[theyellowflash26]

Dathx Is this MU list still accurate? And do you plan to update it at all?

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...qn1mTDYhkf_E/edit?pref=2&pli=1#gid=1189498893

 

[Swamp Sensei]

http://smashboards.com/threads/charizard-matchup-discussion-robin.426954/

Hi Robin mains!

The Charizard boards are currently talking about the Robin vs Charizard matchup!

We want to know what you think. So help us decide which dragon is supreme.

 

[Dathx]

Dathx Is this MU list still accurate? And do you plan to update it at all?

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...qn1mTDYhkf_E/edit?pref=2&pli=1#gid=1189498893

It's pretty close, but I really want to update it with Raziek sometime soon. I wanted to wait a week or two after patch before the update so we could gauge if there are any differences in MUs

 

[Raziek]

It's pretty close, but I really want to update it with Raziek sometime soon. I wanted to wait a week or two after patch before the update so we could gauge if there are any differences in MUs

Ball's in your court fam, I'm around all the dang time.

 

[theyellowflash26]

It's pretty close, but I really want to update it with Raziek sometime soon. I wanted to wait a week or two after patch before the update so we could gauge if there are any differences in MUs

Okay, cuz I wanted to get updated opinions on some MUs since some of the ones you thought were good give me trouble. I just got done watching the video you guys did talking about them and it gave me a lot of new ideas for stuff. Thanks for taking the time to make the spread and talk about it. Really helps, especially for MUs I don't play much.

 

[Raziek]

Okay, cuz I wanted to get updated opinions on some MUs since some of the ones you thought were good give me trouble. I just got done watching the video you guys did talking about them and it gave me a lot of new ideas for stuff. Thanks for taking the time to make the spread and talk about it. Really helps, especially for MUs I don't play much.

Do you have any specific examples?

 

[theyellowflash26]

Do you have any specific examples?

For MUs that give me trouble? RosaLuma, Wario, Mega Man, Luigi, and Little Mac.

 

[Rucent]

The Sonic Match Up Thread is currently discussing Sonic vs Robin! We would love it if you gave us your input on the match up!

http://smashboards.com/threads/sonic-and-the-book-of-matchups-chapter-28-29-falco-robin.390575/

Thank you! :D

 

[Wolfheart77]

Any specifics on the Bowser matchup?

 

[AC NuBurs]

Any specifics on the Bowser matchup?

Bowsers big and clunky, you can stop pretty much all his approaches with thunder spells and arcfires, you can just throw out fair as a hitbox and it will auto cancel before he can do much about it, you still have to respect bowser to an extent because he can kill you super super early, and his knew down throw buff is quite scary, but robin is quite comfy in this match up. Tryy to frustrate the bowser player, to make them comit to something risky, then punish them hard.

 

[Mr. Johan]

Uthrow to Uair is a KO on us around 87%, and he's got the means to get Robin up to that percent reliably with his other Uthrow combos. Try to have an Arcthunder as much as possible in this MU; it and Arcfire will be crucial landing tools to avoid landshark grabs. Don't be too predictable to how you aim those projectiles though. One read Arcfire is a roll behind into a Fsmash and that's gonna hurt.

 

[Jenna Zant]

What's your guys' opinions on Robin's best matchup?

I don't main Robin, but I secondary them and their matchup vs Cloud seems pretty good. Robin can control the stage much better than Cloud can, and Blade Beam is basically irrelevant, as Robin can clank it with jab. Cloud is also very easy to gimp with arcfire while they're offstage, and then follow up with any aerial that isn't nair (maybe)

 

[Deleted member]

What's your guys' opinions on Robin's best matchup?

I don't main Robin, but I secondary them and their matchup vs Cloud seems pretty good. Robin can control the stage much better than Cloud can, and Blade Beam is basically irrelevant, as Robin can clank it with jab. Cloud is also very easy to gimp with arcfire while they're offstage, and then follow up with any aerial that isn't nair (maybe)

Relevant:

Updated MU Spreadsheet

Source video (Raziek and Dath):

Going by the raw numbers the consensus (between Dath and Raziek, although I doubt the opinion is disputed by others) is that Robin's best MUs are , , and , all of which are held to be 65:35 in Robin's favor.

 

[Nah]

Depends on what you mean by a good match up. I don't really think that either character in the Cloud-Robin matchup holds a major advantage over the other. Honestly I'm not entirely sure who I'd call Robin's best (or worst) MU, though Ganondorf is pretty tempting for me to call as her best one.

 

[theyellowflash26]

So I still struggle with the wario mu. I'm not sure what to do at all. It feels so difficult.

 

[Mr. Johan]

Retreating AC Fair and FH double and dropping Fair is crucial in the Wario matchup. Wario's got low knockback moves to keep strings and pseudo-strings going once he gets in, so you've got to keep him out. This also has the benefit of making sure Wario cannot Dash Attack your landing and really mess with you.

Be wary about getting the grab. Do not try for shieldgrabs. Dash grabs is best, but its still a risky effort.

Be prepared to tech when recovering with Elwind. Dair eats Elwind alive. If you're on the stage side of Dair, tech; if you're on the blastzone side, DI straight up.

If Wario has Waft online and you're on the ledge, go for ledge jump. You may take a Bair, but it beats getting hit by Waft almost guaranteed.

 

[False Sense]

This might sound stupid, but I've been struggling with spammy Samus players lately. Seems like my usual Robin strategies tend to be screwed up by her. How exactly should one play this matchup?

 

[LochTessMonster]

This might sound stupid, but I've been struggling with spammy Samus players lately. Seems like my usual Robin strategies tend to be screwed up by her. How exactly should one play this matchup?

Samus is a tall floaty character, so she loves getting hit by our incredible aerials, so I'd try really well spaced fairs. Thoron goes through all of her projectiles except fully charged neutral b, so it's really a must in this matchup. I try not to use arcfire too much in this matchup because from my experience, she's floaty enough that she'll fall out of before you're able to do any good followups. Last thing I have to say, if I recall correctly, and this hasn't been changed, Robin's fair actually completely cancels her neutral B if you hit with the main hit.... It's saved my life before and is well worth a use of sword at mid-high percents. I'd definately test that out a bit though, It's been a long time since I fought a Samus and tried that.

 

[Funkermonster]

So... when lurking around a bit, I poked around lookibg at the old 2015 mu voting thread awhile back, and I happened to see a lot of + votes against my character: . Can you guys explain to me why you think you win said mu?

Have yet to play any Robin offline, but I can't see what gives you the edge. I always had the thought that it was even or in my favor.

 

[Touchebag]

So, I've noticed that that spreadsheet is missing info on Lucas. His is a matchup I have some difficulty with.

Everyone immediately says Robin has a disadvantage due to PSI Magnet. I say otherwise. It does counter much of what we have but you just have to bait it out and throw the Thoron during the endlag. As long as you use Elthunder sparingly (it does heal him quite a lot) you'll be fine.

No, my problem is with that stuped snek. SH zairs for days and I cannot do anything. I cannot airdodge and punish because he has less ending lag and faster counter-counters. I cannot walk up and shield because Robin is so slow that he has ample time to land and grab me (again with the snake).

Of course the 40% grab combos suck but I'm learning to DI out of them. He has the least laggy tether grab in the game but we are too slow to punish even ZSS's.