Worst matchup?

[Link24a]

she can really annoy ness's recovery with neutb/sideb/fsmash (ness recovery is cheeky with wind boxes)
her grab range is awesome giving her some the advantage in that game
since she has both the best counter and a good reflector palutena can stop allot of ness's options

autoreti-whatsit is really slow so any player could see it from a mile away and air dodge without issue. side b doesnt go far horizontally or vertically so you'd need to jump off and even then its somewhat slow for reflecting and small for a windbox. fsmash has zero downward range and super easy to airdodge out of.

ness's grab range is awesome too. not sure whose is better tho

the only reflectors that can cause ness problems are the really fast ones like spacies' and zelda's.

also don't double post

are you a mod?

 

[PKBeam]

can starbits be absorbed by psi magnet?

no

• ness's gimps (upb-fair-neutb)
• her dash speed will allow her to avoid stuff like dash/pivot grabs
• she can really annoy ness's recovery with neutb/sideb/fsmash
• her grab range is awesome giving her some the advantage in that game
• since she has both the best counter and a good reflector palutena can stop allot of ness's options

I'm sorry, what?

 

[Farkus]

can starbits be absorbed by psi magnet?

Only if it is the custom that shoots a fast one.

 

[Earthbound360]

My friend plays a mean Palutena, but I'm 90% sure Ness wins that matchup.
A reflect really doesn't both Ness unless you're Falco, Zelda, or Mewtwo, and it's not the reflect property that really bothers him. It's the fact that they're good moves otherwise. Just stop spamming PKF.

 

[Shaky]

I think Ness' worst matchups are the following: Rosalina (40:60), Yoshi (45:55), Luigi (45:55). If you play against Sonic like you would against ICs in Brawl then you realize the matchup is not as bad as you might think, it's what I did when I played against Espy : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zY-Yo0tBf3Q

 

[Earthbound360]

I think Ness' worst matchups are the following: Rosalina (40:60), Yoshi (45:55), Luigi (45:55). If you play against Sonic like you would against ICs in Brawl then you realize the matchup is not as bad as you might think, it's what I did when I played against Espy : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zY-Yo0tBf3Q

Nice to see ya back Shaky. You don't think Sheik is bad?

 

[Noa.]

I think Ness' worst matchups are the following: Rosalina (40:60), Yoshi (45:55), Luigi (45:55). If you play against Sonic like you would against ICs in Brawl then you realize the matchup is not as bad as you might think, it's what I did when I played against Espy : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zY-Yo0tBf3Q

Nice set. I think that's the first time I've seen a good Sonic lose a whole set to a good Ness.

Lots of aerials when you were rising and falling. Landing with bairs pretty often.

Why do you think Yoshi and Luigi are so bad?

 

[MrWhYYZ]

Shulk is too slow. Even if his sword has crazy range, we can punish it easily.

Unless he's MALLC'ing all over the place. A Shulk that can consistanly MALLC is extremely hard to deal with.

 

[Shaky]

Ness/Sheik is even because you can kill her so early and uair trades with most of what she has. Yoshi just has the tools to beat Ness but there are no amazing ones yet so my opinion might change. As for Luigi, his grab game and aerial game beats ours which pretty much just shuts down Ness.

 

[Link24a]

As for Luigi, his grab game and aerial game beats ours which pretty much just shuts down Ness.

I agree with being outclassed by way of grabs but how is Ness outclassed by way of aerials? I'd say it's about even with Luigi being slightly better maybe

 

[yoshi8984]

Hm, I'd probs say Sonic, and then TLink. Haven't played many Rosas so I can't really say anything (although she is really stupid lol but I've never been gravity gimped), and Diddy & Sheik have never been an issue for me tbh.

I could barely ever beat a Sonic in Brawl and hell I found it boring.
Now this MU got boring AND stupid. xD

And then TLink is pretty stupid and I find it like practically impossible to get past the projectile wall. And then I barely fail to space myself out of his grab range just when I pass out (though that's more my problem). And then the KO B-Throw (GET OUTTA THAT TERRITORY, THAT'S OURS LOL).

==

And then here's just some stupid MUs: Shulk, Yoshi, Link, Falcon, Villager and DHD. =P
Shulk's range is crazy and then his Vision lasts for like 2 years so PKT2 isn't really an option lol
Yoshi's super armor is really silly and Nairs, Eggs and Jabs for days.
Link is like Toon Link but with less speed
Falcon has a super powerful Side-B and then the rushdown is wtf
DHD has more silly projectile walls and the Clay Pigeon is even more silly.
And then Villager is boring and stupid honestly. I never enjoy fighting them. xD

 

[Link24a]

@ yoshi8984
Toon Link isn't even bad. Run up-> shield.
Shulk is really laggy so you can easily punish with grab or use fair's disjointed hitbox if range becomes an issue. I hope you mean pk thunder 2 for recovery...
Yoshi ain't even that bad.
Link isn't an issue at all really
Falcon is barely an issue and I'm pretty sure Ness is 6-4 vs him...
DHD isn't bad at all.
Villager is not that bad.

From that post, I'm now 90% sure you're a For Glory player

 

[PKBeam]

@ yoshi8984
Toon Link isn't even bad. Run up-> shield.
Shulk is really laggy so you can easily punish with grab or use fair's disjointed hitbox if range becomes an issue. I hope you mean pk thunder 2 for recovery...
Yoshi ain't even that bad.
Link isn't an issue at all really
Falcon is barely an issue and I'm pretty sure Ness is 6-4 vs him...
DHD isn't bad at all.
Villager is not that bad.

From that post, I'm now 90% sure you're a For Glory player

Don't call him an "FG player" when you yourself are one... and especially when most of your response is just "[character] isn't even that bad".

 

[Earthbound360]

I'd say Ness wins the aerial game against Luigi because of his lack of aerial mobility. Ness trades just as hard, and generally outranges Luigi with his fair. Nair is the big one you wanna watch out for, or uair if there are platforms.

 

[Link24a]

Don't call him an "FG player" when you yourself are one... and especially when most of your response is just "[character] isn't even that bad".

I play for glory a lot but I don't let that affect what I think of characters to more than a mild degree

 

[yoshi8984]

IDK, I find Ness generally doesn't like being forced to approach, and that he struggles with dealing with projectiles walls; I find he likes to flow at his own pace, but when you're being rushed down or having these projectile walls it disrupts his flow rather badly.

(Also I forgot to add Mega Man on my list lol, the fact he can shoot the Metal Blades in any of the 8 directions, esp. like when he's throwing one not facing you is SUPER confusing and he has a bunch of projectiles to condition you. "Run up and shield" doesn't really get Ness anywhere there, and I feel it's kind of similar like Toon Link. )

==

Also please don't make assumptions. I actually only own 3DS but I've gone to tourneys for Wii U and placed well in them. =P
(And no FG is not my main source of practice, I am in a few Smash groups so lol)

 

[randomnessmain]

Rosa is def the worst match up. I'm guess I haven't played a good sonic either, I've played a few in tournament and they haven't been a problem. Sheik and Diddy aren't great, but their lack of kill power compared to us makes it better (BACK THROW BOYS). I also have a pretty big problem with Pit, beastly dash grab and can go deep to edge guard.

 

[Luco]

@ yoshi8984
Toon Link isn't even bad. Run up-> shield.
Shulk is really laggy so you can easily punish with grab or use fair's disjointed hitbox if range becomes an issue. I hope you mean pk thunder 2 for recovery...
Yoshi ain't even that bad.
Link isn't an issue at all really
Falcon is barely an issue and I'm pretty sure Ness is 6-4 vs him...
DHD isn't bad at all.
Villager is not that bad.

From that post, I'm now 90% sure you're a For Glory player

Yoshi's a very legit player, man.

You accuse someone of being a "For Glory" in the same way one might accuse another of being Mafioso in a game of Mafia. Trust me, quite a few of these concerns are very legitimate. Villager, for example, can destroy our recovery even harder than Rosalina because he can follow us anywhere and then get back to the stage for free. His on-stage game isn't anything to be sniffed at either, with a safe Nair approach ---> jabs ---> Dtilt (had this done to me by one of Australia's best players) and aerials that either severely outrange us (Fair/Bair) or beat us out (Uair and Dair). He's also surprisingly heavy. =P

To say that "x is not that bad" is a dismissive remark and adds little credibility to your argument.

Also, I'd like to watch the Sonic set soon, it sounds exciting and I'd like to see how to play the MU optimally. :D

 

[Link24a]

Yoshi's a very legit player, man.

yeah i just meant his matchup vs ness wasnt that dramatic

You accuse someone of being a "For Glory" in the same way one might accuse another of being Mafioso in a game of Mafia. Trust me, quite a few of these concerns are very legitimate. Villager, for example, can destroy our recovery even harder than Rosalina because he can follow us anywhere and then get back to the stage for free. His on-stage game isn't anything to be sniffed at either, with a safe Nair approach ---> jabs ---> Dtilt (had this done to me by one of Australia's best players) and aerials that either severely outrange us (Fair/Bair) or beat us out (Uair and Dair). He's also surprisingly heavy. =P

To say that "x is not that bad" is a dismissive remark and adds little credibility to your argument.

Also, I'd like to watch the Sonic set soon, it sounds exciting and I'd like to see how to play the MU optimally. :D

...yeah

 

[PKBeam]

i remember i was playing nikes and he did jab -> down-B and almost broke my shield...

 

[Luco]

yeah i just meant his matchup vs ness wasnt that dramatic


...yeah

Soz haha, I didn't mean to offend, my point was merely that we should all try to be supportive of each other here. Being critical is great, but we should try to look in-depth at these kinds of things before making our judgment, y'know? =)

Nikes' Yoshi is scary as hell, but I haven't versed him of late. Do you think both Yoshi jabs + DownB would have broken the shield rather than just the single jab? I suppose that wouldn't have been as much of a combo though. =P

 

[PKBeam]

his yoshi is really legit.
re the jab down b, no, like, it didn't actually hit, i rolled out just in time. if it actually hit yes my shield would've broke.
also, he broke my shield at the edge once and i just tumbled to the lower blastzone

 

[Nikes]

Shameless name search Yoshi's jab > down B is very scary to be on the receiving end of things, some characters shields insta-break without even needing the jab ._. Not sure on how much resistance Ness's shield puts up, but as PKBeam mentioned, it is possible to roll out of it if you're in shield. You can of course move your shield around too if for whatever reason you can't roll, it may be better to just move your shield out of the way or drop your shield and take the hit if it's not going to kill you, as being put in shield stun gives Yoshi the chance to charge a smash. (Yoshi's 2nd hit of grounded down B shouldn't kill you until at least 115%ish I think, unless you get pulled up out of your shield in the first hit, though rage could very well change this too)

Hope some of that made sense, if either of you like I can try and get some wifi games with you guys sometime soon to help you understand the MU better?

 

[Luco]

Shameless name search Yoshi's jab > down B is very scary to be on the receiving end of things, some characters shields insta-break without even needing the jab ._. Not sure on how much resistance Ness's shield puts up, but as PKBeam mentioned, it is possible to roll out of it if you're in shield. You can of course move your shield around too if for whatever reason you can't roll, it may be better to just move your shield out of the way or drop your shield and take the hit if it's not going to kill you, as being put in shield stun gives Yoshi the chance to charge a smash. (Yoshi's 2nd hit of grounded down B shouldn't kill you until at least 115%ish I think, unless you get pulled up out of your shield in the first hit, though rage could very well change this too)

Hope some of that made sense, if either of you like I can try and get some wifi games with you guys sometime soon to help you understand the MU better?

It's okay I've been doing that too lately.

I'm in Israel at the moment! So err, you'll probably find that I'm a little too far away for any half-decent connection, but I get back in November, so I'd love to verse ya then. =D

 

[Earthbound360]

Yoshi's jab mindgames are actualyl terrifying. Still not quite buying it being a bad matchup though honestly. Ness can actually punish things that this guy does that other characters sometimes have trouble doing, not to mention Ness punishes HARD in this game.

I play regularly with the best Villager in my state, and I really feel like it's not a bad matchup. You've just gotta nair through those slingshots, rush down the Loid rockets before they gain active hitboxes, and never be off stage without a double jump.

 

[Luco]

Villager is surprisingly alright, if a little volatile and strange. I used to play with Aus' best Villager player before I left and it was pretty even between us. But I do see why it's a legitimate concern by players.

 

[PKBeam]

his nair and dair are really annoying because they outprioritise our nair

 

[Lukingordex]

What do you guys think about Greninja?

 

[PKBeam]

greninja's even. i think if anything, very slightly in our favour.

 

[Earthbound360]

Favorable, just don't be off stage unless you wanna get FLUDD'd.

 

[Luco]

I've only ever been killed by hydro pump once as Ness, usually if you save your DJ or recover slightly out of his reach he won't get you. His range bugs me though.

 

[Earthbound360]

Well yeah, you're fine with your DJ (as with all gimp characters for Ness). When you have PKT only and he's standing on the ledge though, you're pretty dead.

Honestly, Ness has pretty godlike recovery so long as he has his DJ. Without it, it's below average though.

 

[Link24a]

Yeah fludd is no issue if you recover low

 

[Earthbound360]

Against Greninja, it is. Greninja's hydro pump can be fire low more easily, and has better startup. Recovering low won't save you here against good Greninjas.

 

[Lukingordex]

I've been having some trouble against Greninja and Captain Falcon because I don't know what I need to do against them in neutral.

Any tips?

 

[Link24a]

I've been having some trouble against Greninja and Captain Falcon because I don't know what I need to do against them in neutral.

Any tips?

im a for glory player im not suited for this... but nair and fair are great against both. also their weight is great for throw combos

 

[Brellow]

I think Jigglypuff can become an unfavorable matchup because of this. I tried this on a few For Glory Ness and won every time. Ness usually reks me with back throw but I changed that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEMjbmNPNmU

 

[Earthbound360]

I think Jigglypuff can become an unfavorable matchup because of this. I tried this on a few For Glory Ness and won every time. Ness usually reks me with back throw but I changed that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEMjbmNPNmU

It begins... *sigh*

 

[Link24a]

I think Jigglypuff can become an unfavorable matchup because of this. I tried this on a few For Glory Ness and won every time. Ness usually reks me with back throw but I changed that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEMjbmNPNmU

Yeah my brother does that but I still win.

Also never cite a for glory match when talking about actual character worth

 

[PKBeam]

don't reply to that. it's probably flamebait.