! WORLD SMASH HIP-HOP ! Rap/HipHop/R&B/ Discussion Thread (explicit warning)

[~N9NE~]

The battle tip is another string to Eminem's bow that Nas wouldn't be as skilled at.

Eminem's ability to put together words and make them rhyme is exceptional and undoubtedly better than Nas'.

But Nas' ability to carve out a song is better imo. His music seems so effortless.

Undying Love > Stan.

 

[.Marik]

I've listened to some Nas beats, they're good, but I haven't heard anything extraordinary. I haven't listened to much Nas recently, and especially not his underground stuff, so I'll give you guys the benefit of the doubt and ring up his tracks on YouTube or something.

I've actually never found Immortal Technique to lack flow. Sure, he hasn't perfected timing, and occassionally goes off-sync, but his raw messages, lyrical ability, and effective manner in which he presents his opinions, certainly make up for and even exceed normal expectations.

If he's bad, everyone else must be complete garbage.

In 8 Mile, I'm sure those were originally his battles, although they were probably modified to sound exceptional, but it's still relevant to Eminem's actual skill level.

I can agree with N9NE, but as I said before, I need to check out Nas' stuff. I think a lot of people overrate him though, but disregard my opinion seeing as I haven't listened to him in a while.

I hate typing on a proxy. Stupid school computers.

 

[Luigitoilet]

I prefer Nas personally but has anyone ever made a track as creative, brutal and raw as "Kim"?

 

[Matador]

The only real story track Em has ever done is Stan, and that's a classic, groundbreaking song. Undying love was good too, but Em can still go there, even if he can't do it as well as Nas can.

Edit @ Marik: You can't sacrifice flow and the beat for the sake of getting off a few dope lines. That's taboo.

That's one reason why listening to Chino XL really irks me...he spit some of the best lines I've EVER heard, but he can't stay on the beat. It's like writing an essay but your words are all over the place and show no cohesion.

He's still good nonetheless...but the beat is there for a reason...a very significant reason.

Edit @ Blu3: LOL me too. I've got all of his stuff on shuffle right now. Just went through Blunt Ashes and on Fetus now...I love talking about this **** XD

 

[~N9NE~]

Chino XL lol. Dude looks like a wrestler.

 

[IAmBlu3]

oh ****. he really does. i watched an interview with him and technique.......think that flow thing is because they hang out? lolol

"****in up lives like teenage pregnancy" - CHino Xl

That line made me laugh my *** off when i first heard it lol.

 

[jugfingers]

there's no way in hell MF Doom is the goat. sorry. his influence on rap is just not comparable to someone like nas. he may be dope

Spoiler

i don't like him

but i can't really name any artists he's had a major influence on, personally.


i'm curious. how old is everybody in this thread? i'm wondering if it's like age difference that's leading to different opinions on who the goat is.

obviously if you don't like Doom then you haven't listened to all his albums and therefore are just saying he can't be the GOAT because you aren't familiar with his music

I'm 23

lol Immortal Technique has no flow. He constantly goes off beat. I listened to him spit an acapella and he somehow still sounded off beat. Technique can be a great alternative to all that swag rappin **** but that **** gets old TOO FAST. Especially when there's no real difference in content between this track and the next. But...I am still a fan.

yea immortal technique has no flow lol

Ever watched 8 Mile? Those freestyles against Papa Doc, Lotto and Lickety Splits?

Haha, Nas can't even touch that. When Eminem gets pissed off at people, nobody can TOUCH HIM. How is that not dope? How can Nas even try to scratch the surface at mustering comebacks and insults the way Eminem does?

lol at people thinking eminem was an amazing battle rapper because of a major hollywood movie. He was Mediocre

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bEv52xt7IQ&feature=related

I mean he's alright but certainly can't hold a candle too top emcees in terms of freestyle ability.

but that has no bearing on the GOAT


also,, wtf at considering eminem to be the GOAT this actually saddens me.

Nas is legit, eminem is a talented pop star.



also to people who think album sales are an indication of quality? .....I don't know what to tell you.



Long Post coming soon,

 

[IAmBlu3]

wait.....i didn't say that last part >__>

i'm not a doom fan so i'm hella biased . and i did listen to his albums....didn't like them. i still consider the goat to be nas......nas did say he wanted to work with doom though.......

 

[IAmBlu3]

maybe i listened to the wrong one. what's his best album?

 

[.Marik]

Lol @ Jugfingers thinking Eminem is pop.

Dude has never listened to Eminem's underground stuff, obviously.

*Edit* Yo, what do you guys think of Raekwon?

Dude has some grimey tracks.

 

[Matador]

also,, wtf at considering eminem to be the GOAT this actually saddens me.

Nas is legit, eminem is a talented pop star.

When I take a look at his singles and that stupid voice he uses, it's hard to see Eminem as the embodiment of hip hop and its culture as the greatest rapper of all time. Nas fits much better.

I can't ignore the fact that his albums so far don't stand out to me like a GOAT would...Not because they're not club or girl tracks that sell in the hip hop industry...but because they're not of the same caliber of his albums since '96.

Like I said, I don't have this issue with Em's albums, Jay's albums, Joey's projects, T.I.'s albums...It may be a personal thing, I dunno if you guys still listen to Nas albums on the regular besides his first two.

 

[Suspect]

The quality of the cd has nothing to do with album sales; hence, all these underground rappers that are dope but don't sell.

majority of underground rappers are either wack or/and make wack albums.


just cause some are "nice with words" doesnt mean they can make nice tracks/cds dawg

 

[Matador]

majority of underground rappers are either wack or/and make wack albums.


just cause some are "nice with words" doesnt mean they can make nice tracks/cds dawg

LOL

mmmmmmmmmk

 

[IAmBlu3]

majority of underground rappers are either wack or/and make wack albums.


just cause some are "nice with words" doesnt mean they can make nice tracks/cds dawg

my dude, MIKE JONES WENT PLATINUM!!

and my point wasn't to say underground mc's are all good. what i'm saying is that even the ones that do make great cds do not sell.

 

[~N9NE~]

@ Marik, I really don't like Raekwon. At all. I don't see why he is rated so highly.

majority of underground rappers are either wack or/and make wack albums.

just cause some are "nice with words" doesnt mean they can make nice tracks/cds dawg

Agree somewhat lol. Talent doesn't always mean the ability to make a great project.

Of course an established, label backed artist will have the means to produce a better 'finished' project than an underground artist.

But my man, you've got mainstream artists making horrible, horrible music.

 

[.Marik]

Yo, there was this one Ghostface track I heard, it was FIRE.

I miss it, can't seem to find it on YouTube. It was a friend's MP3, but I would listen to this tracks' beat until my ears were raw.

I should look up more of his stuff.

 

[IAmBlu3]

@ N9NE:......bruh.....really?

 

[~N9NE~]

Really what lol?

It's a good point. Talent alone doesn't mean you'll be able to make a great cohesive project.

@ Marik. I prefer Ghost to Rae. I swear Rae spitting just sounds like gibberish to me. That mafioso drug culture content gets played out quick to me too.

 

[IAmBlu3]

nah. i'm talkin about the raekwon thing. i already know all underground mc's aren't good. most suck, honestly.

you listen to only built for cuban linx pt 1?......then again, ghost lays it down on that album too....i dunno. the cds pretty good though.

 

[.Marik]

Yeah man, Ghostface is legit.

Poisonous Darts was great, haha.

Anyone else want to link some Ghostface tracks?

Dude is mad underrated, still.

I'd be like "Yo, ever heard of Ghostface?"

People: "Lol did he do a song with Lil Wayne?"

...

I hate mainstream artists.

 

[IAmBlu3]

favorite ghostface song --->http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RaIAeO2IiZ8

 

[~N9NE~]

The production on OBFCL 1 & 2 are great...

I'm not a fan of the content.

 

[.Marik]

favorite ghostface song --->http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RaIAeO2IiZ8

Wow...

This song is amazing, love the content and the lyrics.

The flow is great too.

 

[Takeover1806]

Illmatic and It Was Written were both classic albums imo, and he has a ton of great tracks pass that (One Mic is one of his best)...I have dude's entire discography and listen to most of it still...I'm not saying Nas is far from GOAT status by any means...

But he has so many misses that go along with his hits that it takes him out of the running imo...Jay said it best on Takeover.

I know that I, since God Son, will get hyped over a Nas album about to drop, love it for a week or so, then it'll slowly gather dust. Think about it...Hip Hop is Dead? I don't listen to it anymore at all. Untitled...maybe a track or two. Illmatic or It Was Written? Put the whole thing on repeat, definitely. There's a huge difference.

I don't have the same problem with Eminem albums...even Encore has more tracks that'll bring me back to the album than Nas'. I love the dude's work, but it doesn't have the same pull for me.

Edit: And all that aside, Em at his best > Nas at his best. His verses on Renegade? Till I Collapse? No Apologies? His verses on Words are Weapons and Revelation?

ohh snap matador know a lil sumthin lol..
Well I did not really read what the topic word for word but as far as being the goat of the industry..
Even though he was not in the game long I would easily say Big L..
He was by far a genius & no other rapper amazes me everytime I listen to them like Big L..
But Idk If you put everything into one I would say Jay-z..
Im not gonna lie he is my fav. rapper so Im being biased but his numbers & history prove why he probably is the best rapper to ever do it..
No disrespect to 2pac & biggie though

Edit: I never listened to Ironman but I know ghostface killed it.. He had a couple tracks back in the day i bumped to..
Anyways I read on the thread & I agree with mainstream...
Mostly songs nowadays for clubs nd ****.. I dont mind it but kinda not cool how the rap game is going with just one type of style of music.. That is why I don't watch videos or listen to rap now cause its been dying..
But I can rock to Jay-z 24/7, only rap artist from back in the day I still listen to now..
He is too much of a goat xD

 

[jugfingers]

wait.....i didn't say that last part >__>

i'm not a doom fan so i'm hella biased . and i did listen to his albums....didn't like them. i still consider the goat to be nas......nas did say he wanted to work with doom though.......

lolol sorry I was being lazy and was copy and pasting your quotes then going to change it to marik but I forgot before I posted it

you've heard nastradoomus right?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLCidRExTnE&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvM8IKMq61k&feature=related

doom remixed abunch of Nas tracks with his own beats/

Lol @ Jugfingers thinking Eminem is pop.

Dude has never listened to Eminem's underground stuff, obviously.

*Edit* Yo, what do you guys think of Raekwon?

Dude has some grimey tracks.

lol eminem....



raekwon is effin legit though

 

[.Marik]

Jugfingers.

Please don't mix up "good Eminem" with "current mainstream Eminem."

His styles aren't even close.

Just wanted to throw that out there.

 

[Jane]

Hell yeah more big L fans! My love for big L is everlasting!

OBFCL 1 and 2 were both amazing. Top notch production, ill verses by many different names. Like marik said - just grimey lol.



Oh and I'm 14.











Jk I'm 18 ;D no offense to all you 14 year olds out there!
Looks like were all basically in the same age group

 

[Takeover1806]

yo I was about to trip if you was 14..
Even to be 18 Im suprised you listen to him
but yea @ matador nas def does not fit the best rapper of all time list but probably top 5 lyricist list
he gets mad repetitive with his style & fails to appeal to mainstream crowd..
That is why his d's did not sell as much as somebody like jay or 2pac..

Edit: Quite *****s remix is legit from the nastradumus cd though @ jugfingers..
I dont like the project windows remix as much but that was def one of my fav songs from that cd..

 

[IAmBlu3]

I actually seen that doom cd that he mixed. i was thinkin about downloading it. seems like it's worth it.

I'm not a Big L fan I'm not really a jay-z fan either

which is why i can comfortably say, Nas > Jay-Z

jay-z - "I dumb down my music so i can double my dollars"

i have full faith that pac's record sales would've gone down had he lived longer. at the time he was out.....he wasn't really doing anything, lyrically, different from what everyone else was doing. that'ss when gangsta rap was rising. of course, he did it better than....or at least his tone made him better.

 

[~N9NE~]

When Nas aims to appeal to mainstream, like Made You Look, I Can...it's still ill as fluck.

I think you guys are over rating Big L.

 

[IAmBlu3]

agreed....

 

[Jane]

i think youre overrating nas

 

[IAmBlu3]

you can't rock stunna shades after that comment >___>

 

[jugfingers]

When it comes to the Greatest Rapper of all time, I think the most important criterion is flow.

cause flow is really life force of rap, you can have the most genius lyrics and ideas but if they don't flow out your mouth smoothly, it will sound repulsive.

flow is the magic of rap,

but I don't think its useful for me to continue in in this discussion judging by the responses thus far.

I'll put my vote in for Rakim

 

[Takeover1806]

greatest rapper is more than just flow..
yes flow is the most important but of course you have other aspects to being a nice rap artist..
you must also be able to adjust to a track & the purpose of what you are writing about..
Any beat a producer gives an artist, they must be able to adjust there style to go on the beat..
Also a rapper encomposses what you provide to the game like being able to perform on stage consistently, being a rolemodel to others, creating a fan base, being consistent for an 'x' amount of years, etc..
I can name more examples but trust me a rapper is more than just flow & lyrics..
As far as naming the best lyricist, i would give rakim, nas, big L, or w/e you guys think as one of the top artist..
But best rapper so far in my eyes in there career is Jay-Z

 

[IAmBlu3]

most successful rapper? yeah. best rapper? nah.

 

[`Jammin' Jobus]

majority of underground rappers are either wack or/and make wack albums.


just cause some are "nice with words" doesnt mean they can make nice tracks/cds dawg

Majority of all rappers are wack and/or make wack albums.

95% of all rap is trash.

Just so happens than most of the remaining 5% is underground IMO

 

[Masmasher@]

When will people learn...
You are not a good emcee or the complete pakage of a skilled "rapper" if you have high album sales.
It just means you know how to make songs
There are tons of people out there that are lyrically better then 50 cent but he makes good songs.

 

[Luigitoilet]

I know we're sort of off this, but Masta Killa is my favorite Wu-tang member. I agree that Rae's flow can get a bit boring pretty quick. Masta Killa's verse on "Kiss the Ring" from OB4CL2 is the best thing on the album.

edit: I consider Technique more of a slam poet than a rapper.

 

[Matador]

greatest rapper is more than just flow..
yes flow is the most important but of course you have other aspects to being a nice rap artist..
you must also be able to adjust to a track & the purpose of what you are writing about..
Any beat a producer gives an artist, they must be able to adjust there style to go on the beat..
Also a rapper encomposses what you provide to the game like being able to perform on stage consistently, being a rolemodel to others, creating a fan base, being consistent for an 'x' amount of years, etc..
I can name more examples but trust me a rapper is more than just flow & lyrics..
As far as naming the best lyricist, i would give rakim, nas, big L, or w/e you guys think as one of the top artist..
But best rapper so far in my eyes in there career is Jay-Z

lol, name searching like **** Takeo XD. How about all this dam snow? lol.

Yea, the GOAT has to have more than simply flow or lyrics...Jay's definitely up there too, regardless of how much people think he's fallen off. The simple fact that he shows the most growth and versatility out of nearly every rapper to ever touch a mic gives him merit. He's also insane live, lol.

Big L's a monster, no question there either.