World Cup Discussion

[Adam M!]

now you know how i, as a basketball fan, feel

****. REFS.

 

[Kira-]

I would gladly trade the many pauses needed to allow computers / cameras to make correct calls for the quicker, erroneous, opinionated calls that are made by refs.

 

[Jun.]

American Football has a decent procedure of reviewing calls and even overturning them so I never understood why other "professional" sports haven't adopted ways to incorporate video footage into overturning bad referee calls.

 

[pockyD]

football has a significant amount of natural pauses in the action (in fact, i think like 80%+ of the game is inaction)

most other sports (aside from baseball) don't share this property; soccer, basketball, hockey

just consider at what point in a soccer game you'd review a shot originally declared a non-goal; play can potentially continue for minutes without a natural stoppage

 

[HyugaRicdeau]

I was thinking the review could begin immediately but play would still continue while the review goes on, then if the review shows that a previous call needs to be overturned then it's imposed on the spot. The only problem with this I can see is dealing with what happens in play during the time the review is happening (e.g. what if one of the teams scores a goal).

 

[Bizzarro Flame]

sorry for the slight change of subject from reviewing calls, but...

isn't one of the main reasons why soccer isn't that heavily focused on in the United States because of the lack of pauses/breaks, with the exception of half-time of course. Due to this, sponsors cannot put as much advertisement in soccer as in other sports; they can only put ads in half-time. Soccer would have been another one of U.S.'s main sport if only if American corporations are/were not so greedy.

 

[pockyD]

I was thinking the review could begin immediately but play would still continue while the review goes on, then if the review shows that a previous call needs to be overturned then it's imposed on the spot. The only problem with this I can see is dealing with what happens in play during the time the review is happening (e.g. what if one of the teams scores a goal).

you also end up with a decentralization of authority; who would hold the ultimate power - the primary referee or the replay official?

also what about fouls, yellow cards, red cards, and (maybe) substitutions that happen in the meantime?

 

[Adam M!]

sorry for the slight change of subject from reviewing calls, but...

isn't one of the main reasons why soccer isn't that heavily focused on in the United States because of the lack of pauses/breaks, with the exception of half-time of course. Due to this, sponsors cannot put as much advertisement in soccer as in other sports; they can only put ads in half-time. Soccer would have been another one of U.S.'s main sport if only if American corporations are/were not so greedy.

dunno about that. i think the main reason is simply that americans don't give a **** about the sport, something thats been going on longer than the commercialization of sports. i mean if you found a way to cram a bunch of ads in to make corporations happy i'm sure america wouldn't suddenly love soccer, would they?

 

[pockyD]

yep

it's mostly the stigma that it's a kid's sport and that the players are largely interchangeable

plus most people find it BORING; sitting there for 90 minutes to have it end in a 0-0 tie... then go home? can't think of many things less satisfying than that

 

[Bizzarro Flame]

hmm, i just researched the history of soccer, and i found out that there were many ball games similar to soccer throughout the world and world history, which reinforces the idea that people nowadays enjoy soccer because of the exposure to games similar to soccer.

my theory would be that United States is not too much into soccer because they didn't have a strong foundation in such a game. this is because they dropped some cultural aspects of the British, such as Mob Football (a sports similar to soccer before rugby was invented in the 19th century) after they broke off in the late 18th century.

however there is a strong attraction to soccer in the Mid and South Americas because the Native Americans played games similar to soccer, which have been passed down to the mixed people, as a result of the colonial eras, in those areas. sure you could say that the Native Americans in North America also had similar games, but the English colonials and the U.S. (after independence) has always been a racial binary society (either you're an Englishmen or you're out of society) up until the nineteenth/twentith century unlike the Spanish/Portuguese, who had a racial hierarchy based on how white people were due to the lack of European women, in Central/South America.

so, in a way, P is right about America being indifferent to soccer which is why soccer isn't a major sport in the U.S. but, i think that his statement is just one of the main reasons, not the only main reason itself.

also, i never heard of the stigma that it's a kid's sport. but the interchangeable part is true. but it's always fun to watch soccer stars show off their stuffs (no homo) especially when they score. other than that, it gets kind of boring and repetitive in the mid-field.

 

[pockyD]

hockey is very much a soccer-like sport, which is significantly less accessible (simply due to all the gear you need to have), and yet it is far more popular than soccer in the states

 

[Bizzarro Flame]

i have only watched hockey during my childhood, but i can't remember if there were a lot of ads in it. i'm pretty sure that it has more breaks in it than in soccer.

interestingly, hockey players receive a five-minute penalty at worst as opposed to soccer where players could be out for the whole game for a major penalty.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

Game of the year announced: vuvuzela hero

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P40TP1ughek&feature=player_embedded

 

[Atlus8]

LMAO!

Anyway, so far Uruguay vs Netherlands has been pretty d@mn good! Half time right now and it stands at 1-1! Both goals were shot from a good distance and looked s!ck! Also, refs are still making s#!+ load of bad calls!

Edit - Total BS! Uruguay is getting screwed over by the refs! There was an offside player when Netherlands got that second goal!

 

[HyugaRicdeau]

interestingly, hockey players receive a five-minute penalty at worst as opposed to soccer where players could be out for the whole game for a major penalty.

You can be ejected from the game in hockey or serve a 10 minute misconduct. Generally, major and misconduct penalties are further reviewed by the NHL to determine if multiple game suspensions are necessary. Marty McSorley was essentially forced into retirement after his hit on Donald Brashear. The official suspension was one year, and he also faced criminal charges for it.

 

[pockyD]

a penalty is also far more significant in hockey due to the significantly lower number of players on the field/ice and the overall speed of the game

if a player was booted from the game without replacement (as is what happens in soccer iirc) in hockey, that's pretty much game over for the victimized team, and I'd be super surprised if they even got within 5 goals (assuming the penalty in question happens relatively early on)

in soccer, full halves happen 11v9 with no scoring still

 

[HyugaRicdeau]

you also end up with a decentralization of authority; who would hold the ultimate power - the primary referee or the replay official?

also what about fouls, yellow cards, red cards, and (maybe) substitutions that happen in the meantime?

The referee would signal to the replay official that he needs to make a call, after which the replay official has the final call.

Fouls wouldn't matter. I don't know the exact criteria for yellow/red cards but I'd initially say cards wouldn't stand unless they were issued for unsportsmanlike/injury reasons. I don't think it should take so long to make a review that a substitution would happen but either way it should stand.

As for goals, there was actually a similar situation in hockey, where a "no goal" was called on-ice by an official and play continued, and then the other team scored a goal on the same play. This was the first stoppage since the first call so the review began on that. It was determined not to be a goal, but if it were, the goal that happened afterwards would be nullified and the appropriate amount of time would be added back to the clock.

EDIT: found video, also I didn't have the story exactly right

 

[Bizzarro Flame]

ok nvm, i pulled my crappy source from a random site.

but viewing these videos makes me want to watch hockey again

 

[EdreesesPieces]

Go holland! Wooooo!!!!

 

[Adam M!]

jason: do me a favor and call me adam. and in exchange i wont call u bizzaro =P

 

[Bizzarro Flame]

lol alrite adam

 

[EdreesesPieces]

bizzarro's cool