Women in Smash Infographic

[Keeshu]

53 Women that play smash games..... worldwide? Sounds more like results for a single town/city.

Personally I haven't seen anyone say bad things to female games playing smash games (unless they are jerks to everyone anyways of course).


Personally I think gender should not even be an issue.... Same with many other issues. (like sexuality, religion, whatever)

I judge people individually, and really all I care about is that they aren't jerks to people...... and strongly prefer that they like to play video games and keep themselves healthy (but if they don't it's fine).




As for other stuff on the interview. It's called sandbagging when you don't play seriously? Well I sandbag quite often (to everyone), since many people don't play smash (or video games in general) as much as I do. Besides, people get pissed off so easily if I actually try against them anyways..... Seriously, I feel like I'm the only person that doesn't get angry if they start to lose. Maybe that's because I love a challenge though.
And I assume many people to be unskilled because I haven't met anyone that is a decent challenge yet in my town. Though I give them the benefit of the doubt if they brag before fighting anyways.... Though beating the crud out of someone that brags too much and is a jerk about is really fun for the first couple wins.


1 out of 4 women dealing with sexism in Smash community? At least it's a better ratio than "normal" people.


Overall this image leaves a lot of questions on how the information was obtained.

As for the characters. I'm surprised Peach was scored the highest, since I always see Samus or Zelda/Sheik being picked by women, never peach. Then again, I don't usually see a whole lot of super competitive women either (or competitive players in general. I must be looking in the wrong places).


While it's good to not treat women badly, giving too much praise can have a negative effect as well (still better than treating them poorly of course). Treating genders equally is the best way to go (the individual personality is what counts afterall).

 

[Renji64]

Not sure if this is more feminism propaganda or legit.You can't judge people off their skill level who cares about or remember terrible players git gud scrubs. I don't care about anyone's gential it is about playing smash bros.

 

[Ekans647]

I'm really happy about the way the community is growing. We're become more accepting of women, we're getting support from MLG, and most importantly of all, we're getting two new Smash games! 2014 is shaping up to be a great year for the Smash! One thing confuses me though, near the part about girls who quit Smash, is that a 0 or a 1?

 

[Wasp]

It's just that gaming started as a nerd thing for guys. In history, girls hardly played videogames until there were more games without fighting, shooting etc. So in other words, gaming WAS a real boys thing back in the days and the truth is that there are way more guys than girls who play videogames... Even though today's gamingmarket is more female friendly, it still remains known mainly as a guy thing, because of the most popular games, such as shooters, fighters and racers.

Women never really choose the more violent games... they rather play Sims, Nintendogs and stuff like that. Of course there are the hardcore girls who really play games like smash, call of duty, Rersident Evil and games like that more seriously and earn really high scores on it as well, but their numbers are still few in comparisation to the guys.

Anyways, i'm looking forward to battle everyone when smash 4 is released, male or female, I don't care, I'll destroy them both!

 

[YoshiQue]

Well after reading the comments on this, and milkteas post, I realize I dislike the white knights and the the white knight haters.

 

[IsmaR]

I personally don't care if people enjoy ******* around as long as it doesn't get to the point of crossing obvious lines ("****" jokes/insults, physical harassment, etc.), as I find the special treatment just as irritating/demeaning. Equality isn't by definition alone what we want. We want to be respected the same as men, not necessarily treated the same as them (at least when it comes to what is and isn't okay in terms of insults, behavior (goes both ways), and so on). But I think that goes the same for all Smashers, regardless of any gender. Some simply handle stupidity better than others. I would think this problem falls in line with the other, similar aspects of the community not seeming professional or mature at times. In public, at least try to act decent.

And yeah yeah, I realize feminism is the worst thing to ever exist to most people. Just don't expect any sympathy when they go complaining later about how much of a sausagefest the community is made out to be.

 

[---]

Not sure if the results would be different if they also included women who play 64/Brawl, still interesting to read about. Would be nice to see some more gamers join the community.

 

[Vixen]

http://n8dawgcrank.tumblr.com/

I'm gonna place this here. and wait..

The **** is this article?

 

[smashbroskilla]

The **** is this article?

You would understand it if you ever went to a smash tournament.

 

[Vixen]

You would understand it if you ever went to a smash tournament.

I've been going to gaming tournaments in general since 2000, smash since 07. Your point?

 

[smashbroskilla]

I've been going to gaming tournaments in general since 2000, smash since 07. Your point?

If you have been to a smash tournament you would or should at least find this article comical.

 

[Vixen]

If you have been to a smash tournament you would or should at least find this article comical.

I find it offensive and abrasive. Especially since she basically discredits any other smasher as being any good. Especially the signoff.

I don't ask to be treated differently. I ask that the male competitors treat me as a ****ing equal when it comes to competing. I'm sick of HURRHURR UR GOOD FOR A GIRL TOP KEK comments.

 

[smashbroskilla]

I find it offensive and abrasive. Especially since she basically discredits any other smasher as being any good. Especially the signoff.

I don't ask to be treated differently. I ask that the male competitors treat me as a ****ing equal when it comes to competing. I'm sick of HURRHURR UR GOOD FOR A GIRL TOP KEK comments.

I only read half the article. I haven't had time to finish it yet. I can tell you the only one that's making a big deal about a girl playing smash is you. I could care less. If anything I would rather see a man/woman write a blog on proper hygene. I never want to smell another teenie armpit again. Why isn't there a coalition for smashers against bad hygene?

 

[Vixen]

I only read half the article. I haven't had time to finish it yet. I can tell you the only one that's making a big deal about a girl playing smash is you. I could care less. If anything I would rather see a man/woman write a blog on proper hygene. I never want to smell another teenie armpit again. Why isn't there a coalition for smashers against bad hygene?

"The only one who's making a big deal out of a girl playing smash is you"

You're sadly mistaken.

Especially since you've only read half the article. Congratulations, you're jumping to conclusions!

 

[Shadow the Past]

Not sure if the results would be different if they also included women who play 64/Brawl, still interesting to read about. Would be nice to see some more gamers join the community.

While they did focus on Melee, I know at least Brawl was included (Nicole/Kassandra I know are both Brawl players, although neither were heavily included, if at all). Can't really blame them considering it's a Melee blog lol.

But I agree, it would be interesting to see a wider spectrum of the issue.

 

[Vixen]

Nicole was also extremely abrasive and unprofessional. :V

 

[smashbroskilla]

While they did focus on Melee, I know at least Brawl was included (Nicole/Kassandra I know are both Brawl players, although neither were heavily included, if at all). Can't really blame them considering it's a Melee blog lol.

But I agree, it would be interesting to see a wider spectrum of the issue.

Yeah brawl is a different game. The possibility of me smacking your arse at a brawl tournament from a melee tournament are impossible right? Never post a picture of yourself and attend an east coast tournament vixen. I'll smack your arse so hard and run off like the sexual deviant I am. (I read the whole article and it got even better) I'd like to give this Nicole girl a high five.

 

[JuicePouch]

This is pretty much how I sort of feel about the interview

"Firstly I do not know why I wasted my time responding to any of D1’s questions, as I should have known the article published was going to be heavily biased into Milktea’s opinion on the whole matter, and was going to inspire the community to really cater to the 4 women that actually play the ****ing game and actually ****ing pay money to actually ****ing enter tournaments and actually ****ing compete in ****ing singles….****."

...except not with special regards to Milktea, I don't know her at all lol so it's not my place to call her out for anything.

The one quote I have was taken so out of context. I don't think the issue is blatant sexism. For example, most times women getting sandbagged is comparable to sandbagging any other sucky player (if she sucks). Overall, I think forcing this issue is sabotaging their efforts.

If all the effort that was spent arguing about this was put to actually playing the game, just imagine how much the community would grow.

TL;DR Just play the game, and be a reasonable human being and respect everyone.

 

[Vixen]

This is pretty much how I sort of feel about the interview

"Firstly I do not know why I wasted my time responding to any of D1’s questions, as I should have known the article published was going to be heavily biased into Milktea’s opinion on the whole matter, and was going to inspire the community to really cater to the 4 women that actually play the ****ing game and actually ****ing pay money to actually ****ing enter tournaments and actually ****ing compete in ****ing singles….****."

...except not in special regards to Milktea.

The one quote I have was taken so out of context, it just blows my mind to think that is supposed to be the voice of ALL smash women. I don't think it's blatant sexism, cuz women will get sandbagged like any other sucky player (if she sucks), but forcing this issue is sabotaging their efforts.

If all the effort that was spent arguing about this was put to actually playing the game, just imagine how much the community would grow.

TL;DR Just play the game, and be a reasonable human being and respect everyone.

To be fair, only a few moments out of my day to fill out a survey, and discuss doesn't take much out of practice time.

 

[Vixen]

Yeah brawl is a different game. The possibility of me smacking your arse at a brawl tournament from a melee tournament are impossible right? Never post a picture of yourself and attend an east coast tournament vixen. I'll smack your arse so hard and run off like the sexual deviant I am. (I read the whole article and it got even better) I'd like to give this Nicole girl a high five.

You're an example of what's wrong with the community.

I'll continue to attend EC tournaments. Tristate are the homies.

 

[starcock]

I'm not sure what to make of it, I have seen gamers in general treat each other like garbage. It just stands out more because women are few and far between. I doubt we will get headlines across all gaming platforms daily about how men treat each other bad and threaten to "kill" each other while playing a game, but if a girl says she been treated bad, it will be on every gaming site and even in the white house.

Results? Men will be punished as a whole. I mean, no one should do death threats/bullying other gamers, but lets talk in general to fix these problems and not make it female specific. I have seen men that enter a majority female activity get called p*ssy, loser, g*ay and other kinds of horrible things, no one cares though lol, protect females though, they are fragile after all and need special treatment?

 

[Coolwhip]

Thirsty smashers.

 

[smashbroskilla]

You're an example of what's wrong with the community.

I'll continue to attend EC tournaments. Tristate are the homies.

Yea I'm a horrible person. Run for your life. I think this whole thing is silly. I think this whole topic is getting way more attention than it needs. I'll be happy to debate that with you in a respectful manner. Melee/project M is still thriving obviously(CEO in my state of Florida in June). The smash tournament scene will blow up when smash 4 is released. I suspect when smash 4 comes out and a crap ton of new tournament goers and old school smashers come out this topic will rise again. Mark my words.I encourage you to discuss this topic irl with other smashers.

 

[smashbroskilla]

Thirsty smashers.

lol take your own zingy one liner and run with it. you're the biggest white knight in this thread and milktea's thread.

 

[Vixen]

Yea I'm a horrible person. Run for your life. I think this whole thing is silly. I think this whole topic is getting way more attention than it needs. I'll be happy to debate that with you in a respectful manner. Melee/project M is still thriving obviously(CEO in my state of Florida in June). The smash tournament scene will blow up when smash 4 is released. I suspect when smash 4 comes out and a crap ton of new tournament goers and old school smashers come out this topic will rise again. Mark my words.I encourage you to discuss this topic irl with other smashers.

It's getting the amount of attention it needs, just not the kind of attention needed.

 

[WindMajor]

I'm kinda waiting for somebody to interview a bunch of Smasher dudes about female Smashers just to see how that would look like.

 

[starcock]

Male history month is next month guys, there will be articles about females dating top players for their prize money soon enough.

 

[Vixen]

Male history month is next month guys, there will be articles about females dating top players for their prize money soon enough.

Gold diggers are pretty ****ty.

 

[ChikoLad]

I can't really speak for this, as I live way over in Ireland and have never heard of any tournaments over here, but just from a general standpoint, I agree with a lot of what was said in that tumblr post someone linked earlier. That girl is probably one of the few sensible tumblr feminists I've seen.

I think the only real issues are anything relating directly to a girl's sex (for example, guys hitting on girls and making them uncomfortable, and just all around being thirsty or disrespectful). However, stuff like "sandbagging" is very flimsy evidence right now. Girls can say they "feel" sandbagged, but what if they actually weren't, at least not on the grounds of them being a girl? I know I don't play super seriously against casual players at all (simply because I only play seriously in any game when the challenge presented warrants my full attention. This applies to single player games, not just multiplayer), so if these girls being interviewed were mainly just casual players who simply watch tournaments, then this study was mostly meaningless. The only concerning information I see is that ****/sexual harassment was mentioned. Everything else seems subjective, like the sort of thing the girls in question may interpret incorrectly (e.g. sandbagging).

And while comments like "you're good for a girl" aren't exactly ideal, they are hardly a huge issue (since it's essentially just an awkwardly worded compliment). They should really be focused on a lot less then any possible cases of sexual harassment. "You're good for a girl" comments are not going to ever disappear forever, because some guys are just a bit socially awkward. Girls even do the same thing, I've often been told I'm "sweet for a guy". And while it's not the most satisfying comment to have, I can easily shrug it off. Girls can do the same.

 

[Wasp]

http://9gag.com/gag/a3YWXV8

 

[Vixen]

I can't really speak for this, as I live way over in Ireland and have never heard of any tournaments over here, but just from a general standpoint, I agree with a lot of what was said in that tumblr post someone linked earlier. That girl is probably one of the few sensible tumblr feminists I've seen.

I think the only real issues are anything relating directly to a girl's sex (for example, guys hitting on girls and making them uncomfortable, and just all around being thirsty or disrespectful). However, stuff like "sandbagging" is very flimsy evidence right now. Girls can say they "feel" sandbagged, but what if they actually weren't, at least not on the grounds of them being a girl? I know I don't play super seriously against casual players at all (simply because I only play seriously in any game when the challenge presented warrants my full attention. This applies to single player games, not just multiplayer), so if these girls being interviewed were mainly just casual players who simply watch tournaments, then this study was mostly meaningless. The only concerning information I see is that ****/sexual harassment was mentioned. Everything else seems subjective, like the sort of thing the girls in question may interpret incorrectly (e.g. sandbagging).

And while comments like "you're good for a girl" aren't exactly ideal, they are hardly a huge issue (since it's essentially just an awkwardly worded compliment). They should really be focused on a lot less then any possible cases of sexual harassment. "You're good for a girl" comments are not going to ever disappear forever, because some guys are just a bit socially awkward. Girls even do the same thing, I've often been told I'm "sweet for a guy". And while it's not the most satisfying comment to have, I can easily shrug it off. Girls can do the same.

As a serious competitor, comments like "You're good, for a girl." are pretty demeaning to me, but that's just me personally.

 

[ChikoLad]

As a serious competitor, comments like "You're good, for a girl." are pretty demeaning to me, but that's just me personally.

It can be interpreted as demeaning even if you aren't a serious competitor. My point is, it's not a huge problem, and I don't get why so many feminists focus on nitpicks like that. Stamp out serious stuff first, like the sexual harassment and what not.

 

[Vixen]

It can be interpreted as demeaning even if you aren't a serious competitor. My point is, it's not a huge problem, and I don't get why so many feminists focus on nitpicks like that. Stamp out serious stuff first, like the sexual harassment and what not.

When I was approached about the article, my experiences were with disrespect and ignorance regarding transwomen, and people disrespecting me as a competitor for my gender. You're saying that my experiences, while less severe as other womens, are less valid.

 

[thatspoetry]

I'm a man and have experiences sexual harassment on so many levels. If you read my comment on the first page it states many facts about statistics and perception and widely accepted facts. Go ahead and ignore that if you want. There's no need for debate if everyone understands each other's opinion and information. It certainly doesn't mean we need to accept it.

The point of this article was a movement for change. I sympathize and empathize with this. Go ahead and give me something that is on basis within studies and within theories having been proven. Something that people have taken action towards and given thought and time and effort for many years. People still struggle with certain ideals due to many reasons. I'd like to see why all these people are arguing with the truth. I don't care about particulars either. I simply want to know what is as it is,

Sure some of the issues given don't seem like a big deal but when you give someone a point of anger with a lot of little things it builds up to the amount given. It's kind of dealing with all those things at once within a day and everyday. I'm sure people don't like to be forced into that position especially when they want to relax and enjoy themselves.

For me the whole article is relevant. It relates to aspects in the world that still need some altering, seeing that someone is speaking means that there is an issue. People don't speak about serious matters for no reason. In fact you can take speaking as always having a reason for something, Though there are always variations in the psychology of the world.


@ everyone disagreeing with this article and arguing with Vixen etc. etc.

 

[MLGF]

Some of these things are pretty horrible. I'm rather neutral on the topic of using "****" as a gaming term (IMO, words can have their meaning evolve over time, but **** is inbetween when it comes to reaching that and I can see conflicts), but the idea of treating the opposite gender as less in terms of objectifying them or not taking them seriously is pretty disgusting.

Judging by how much liked the community, it's likely that it's a minority of people. I just wish we didn't attract those sorts at all however.

 

[ChikoLad]

When I was approached about the article, my experiences were with disrespect and ignorance regarding transwomen, and people disrespecting me as a competitor for my gender. You're saying that my experiences, while less severe as other womens, are less valid.

No, I just think it should take less priority, because as I said, you can shrug it off, while someone who's been *****/harassed can't shrug that off. And like I also said, to demean you may not even be the intent of the comment, some people are just terrible with words. The "you're good, for a girl" comment is VERY minor, to the point where I'd say it's nitpicking. When people are playing a video game together, they tend to say stupid things. I know this from the tons of times I've done it, and from the tons of LPs I've watched (not sexist things in those or my cases, just things that are stupid).

****/harassment can indefinitely be dealt with within the Smash community, as it is illegal, and the culprits can be apprehended and dealt with. A subjectively and minorly offensive comment that is likely a slip of the tongue in a lot of cases, can't really be stamped out, and you're delusional if you think it can be. It's like going to someone who throws the f-bomb out at random (not necessarily at people, just kind of to themselves, like when they lose a stock), and expecting them to stop doing that. It's likely they just do that on impulse, so if they do it, it's not them being an offensive person, they just have a bad habit they should try shake off, but ridiculing them for it won't help them.

If hearing "you're good, for a girl" is enough to ruin your experience at a social outing, then frankly, you have an over-sensitivity problem. As the old playground saying goes, "Sticks and stones will break my bones, but names will never hurt me".

 

[thatspoetry]

**** being an offensive term was incorrect usage on this forum I believe. What the person should have explained is how in can induce a psychological reaction to people in which they are bereaved of distress within a continuity of applicable environment. In other words some people have experiences trauma. Women are 90 of the population of this word in its applicable circumstances.

Of course people who haven't experiences this can still feel uneasy or unsafe or within ill-means simply because statistically men are the ones who do the crime period whether it be towards male or female victims.

Within all the generation of people having experiences things assimilation and accumulative process and identity among many other parts of our processes are because of progressive intake whether it be new or old and genetics which is taken from the former as we evolve. Whether we put our placement of self in our faith or science we can all agree that this explanation is true simply because people have lived for whatever amount of time.

Maybe digesting this might constipate people a few times over but I am really trying to be brief. I would suggest this person change that part of the article so there is less of a misunderstanding of what should be done and what is meant when it comes to the term **** and how the gaming community uses it. The whole reason behind people using it? Here's something everyone knows. Video games desensitize people. All the fighting and blood and violence does that. This desensitization brings certain points of transgression. They can be both positive and negative concerns. Some people need to focus their anger on something as a therapeutic process. Some people are given anger through this process and it becomes a negative reaction to the stimulus. The proof is given through fact of how we increase our reaction time. This stimulus and physiological reaction are induced through the flight and fight response. Which is because of violence. Our body thinks something wrong is going on through our intake. Which goes back desensitization so the two go hand in hand.

 

[Vixen]

No, I just think it should take less priority, because as I said, you can shrug it off, while someone who's been *****/harassed can't shrug that off. And like I also said, to demean you may not even be the intent of the comment, some people are just terrible with words. The "you're good, for a girl" comment is VERY minor, to the point where I'd say it's nitpicking. When people are playing a video game together, they tend to say stupid things. I know this from the tons of times I've done it, and from the tons of LPs I've watched (not sexist things in those or my cases, just things that are stupid).

****/harassment can indefinitely be dealt with within the Smash community, as it is illegal, and the culprits can be apprehended and dealt with. A subjectively and minorly offensive comment that is likely a slip of the tongue in a lot of cases, can't really be stamped out, and you're delusional if you think it can be. It's like going to someone who throws the f-bomb out at random (not necessarily at people, just kind of to themselves, like when they lose a stock), and expecting them to stop doing that. It's likely they just do that on impulse, so if they do it, it's not them being an offensive person, they just have a bad habit they should try shake off, but ridiculing them for it won't help them.

If hearing "you're good, for a girl" is enough to ruin your experience at a social outing, then frankly, you have an over-sensitivity problem. As the old playground saying goes, "Sticks and stones will break my bones, but names will never hurt me".

"You can shrug it off."

I shouldn't have to. Also when you hear it constantly when going to events, it gets pretty demeaning. I get that people can be socially awkward nerds and not know what to say. I've been there before. It happens, but this is a constant thing. Being treated as a lesser competitor for being a different gender is really ****ty.

There's a lot of **** I can, and do deal with on a daily basis. I dislike that you're telling me to just "Deal with it" when it comes to being demeaned at my favorite competitive medium. Why do you feel the need to disagree?

 

[thatspoetry]

"You can shrug it off."

I shouldn't have to. Also when you hear it constantly when going to events, it gets pretty demeaning. I get that people can be socially awkward nerds and not know what to say. I've been there before. It happens, but this is a constant thing. Being treated as a lesser competitor for being a different gender is really ****ty.

There's a lot of **** I can, and do deal with on a daily basis. I dislike that you're telling me to just "Deal with it" when it comes to being demeaned at my favorite competitive medium. Why do you feel the need to disagree?

Don't you love how they completely ignore me so they can make some invalid argument. I'm guessing they can't handle what I'm saying/ I hope some people are reading it though. I feel totally ignored. xD

 

[ChikoLad]

"You can shrug it off."

I shouldn't have to. Also when you hear it constantly when going to events, it gets pretty demeaning. I get that people can be socially awkward nerds and not know what to say. I've been there before. It happens, but this is a constant thing. Being treated as a lesser competitor for being a different gender is really ****ty.

There's a lot of **** I can, and do deal with on a daily basis. I dislike that you're telling me to just "Deal with it" when it comes to being demeaned at my favorite competitive medium. Why do you feel the need to disagree?

Because if you can deal with what ever other stuff you put up with, you can surely deal with this one little thing.

And if by "a constant thing" you mean there are people in your life who consistently say it, then you can call them out. If it's just a random assortment of people who all say it to you by coincidence and you never see them again, you really should be able to just let go.

Or even better, just phase out the "for a girl" part. In general, I have a mindset of "I might be good but I could be better". Adopting such a mindset makes (possibly unintentionally) demeaning comments a non-issue.

And to be quite honest, guys have equivalent things they may say to each other. I'm not trying to sound mean, or put you down, but I really think you're letting this get to you more than you should be. Just be strong, is all I'm saying. Then those comments will mean absolutely nothing to you.