Wolf's Metagame Thread

[tekkie]

Wolf's Metagame Thread

I'd like to thank lordhelmet for the idea and the format. The original topic can be found here.

Moveset Analysis:

Usage: 5 being the highest, 1 being the lowest. Any move with a 5 is spammable.​

Jab

• Recommended Usage: 5
• Uses:
  1. When being jab cancelled
  2. Escaping comboes
  3. Refresh moves
• Other:

Dash Attack

• Recommended Usage: 2
• Uses:
• Other:

Ftilt

• Recommended Usage: 4
• Uses:
  1. Useful against aerial approaches
• Other:

Dtilt

• Recommended Usage: 3
• Uses:
• Other:

Utilt

• Recommended Usage: 3
• Uses:
• Other:

Fsmash

• Recommended Usage: 4
• Uses:
• Other:

Dsmash

• Recommended Usage: 4
• Uses:
• Other:

Usmash

• Recommended Usage: 4
• Uses:
  1. Punish airdodge
  2. Has a significant horizontal range
  3. DACUS goes very far
• Other:

Nair

• Recommended Usage: 4
• Uses:
  1. Use OoS against cross-up approaches (Fox nair > utilt)
• Other:

Fair

• Recommended Usage: 5
• Uses:
• Other:

Bair

• Recommended Usage: 5
• Uses:
• Other:

Dair

• Recommended Usage: 2
• Uses:
• Other:

Uair

• Recommended Usage: 4
• Uses:
• Other:

Blaster (Neutral Special)

• Recommended Usage: 4
• Uses:
• Other:

Fire Wolf (Up Special)

• Recommended Usage: 1
• Uses:
• Other:

Wolf Flash (Forward Special)

• Recommended Usage: 3
• Uses:
• Other:

Reflector (Shine) (Down Special)

• Recommended Usage: 4
• Uses:
  1. Anti-juggle
  2. Shine spiking
  3. Reflecting items
  4. Aerial shine combes into AAA (jab)
• Other:
  1. Invincibility on frames 1-6

Fthrow

• Recommended Usage: 2
• Uses:
  1. Horizontal setup
• Other:

Bthrow

• Recommended Usage: 1
• Uses:
  1. Can replace uthrow at mid/high percents
• Other:
  1. Throws more up than back
  2. Risky at low percentages

Dthrow

• Recommended Usage: 5
• Uses:
  1. Set up a tech chase
  2. Throws offstage at a low angle, setting up for a gimp/spike
• Other:
  1. Risky at 0%
  2. Does most % of all throws
  3. Techable right in front of you

Uthrow

• Recommended Usage: 4
• Uses:
  1. Sets up for juggling
• Other:

Character Specific:​

For more in-depth MU guides go here.

CPs and bans go in order of best to worst.​

35-65 - Video ()

• Utilize:

• Other tips:

• CP:

• Ban:

45-55 - Video ()

• Utilize:

• Other tips:

• CP:

• Ban:

50-50 - Video ()

• Utilize:

• Other tips:

• CP:

• Ban:

40-60

• Utilize:

• Other tips:

• CP:

• Ban:

45-55 - Video ()

• Utilize:

• Other tips:

• CP:

• Ban:

50-50

• Utilize:

• Other tips:

• CP:

• Ban:

40-60 - Video ()

• Utilize:

• Other tips:

• CP:

• Ban:

35-65 - Video ()

• Utilize:

• Other tips:

• CP:

• Ban:

40-60

• Utilize:

• Other tips:

• CP:

• Ban:

55-45 - Video ()

• Utilize:

• Other tips:

• CP:

• Ban:

50-50 - Video ()

• Utilize:

• Other tips:

• CP:

• Ban:

50-50

• Utilize:

• Other tips:

• CP:

• Ban:

45-55 - Video ()

• Utilize:

• Other tips:

• CP:

• Ban:

50-50 - Video ()

• Utilize:

• Other tips:

• CP:

• Ban:

55-45 - Video ()

• Utilize:

• Other tips:

• CP:

• Ban:

50-50 - Video ()

• Utilize:

• Other tips:

• CP:

• Ban:

55-45 - Video ()

• Utilize:

• Other tips:

• CP:

• Ban:

60-40 - Video ()

• Utilize:

• Other tips:

• CP:

• Ban:

50-50 - Video ()

• Utilize:

• Other tips:

• CP:

• Ban:

55-45 - Video ()

• Utilize:

• Other tips:

• CP:

• Ban:

55-45 - Video ()

• Utilize:

• Other tips:

• CP:

• Ban:

:shiek: 40-60 - Video ()

• Utilize:

• Other tips:

• CP:

• Ban:

55-45 - Video ()

• Utilize:

• Other tips:

• CP:

• Ban:

45-55 - Video ()

• Utilize:

• Other tips:

• CP:

• Ban:

60-40 - Video ()

• Utilize:

• Other tips:

• CP:

• Ban:

55-45 - Video ()

• Utilize:

• Other tips:

• CP:

• Ban:

55-45 - Video ()

• Utilize:

• Other tips:

• CP:

• Ban:

55-45 - Video ()

• Utilize:

• Other tips:

• CP:

• Ban:

55-45 - Video ()

• Utilize:

• Other tips:

• CP:

• Ban:

60-40 - Video ()

• Utilize:

• Other tips:

• CP:

• Ban:

60-40 - Video ()

• Utilize:

• Other tips:

• CP:

• Ban:

60-40 - Video ()

• Utilize:

• Other tips:

• CP:

• Ban:

55-45 - Video ()

• Utilize:

• Other tips:

• CP:

• Ban:

65-35 - Video ()

• Utilize:

• Other tips:

• CP:

• Ban:

60-40 - Video ()

• Utilize:

• Other tips:

• CP:

• Ban:

70-30 - Video ()

• Utilize:

• Other tips:

• CP:

• Ban:

60-40 - Video ()

• Utilize:

• Other tips:

• CP:

• Ban:

60-40 - Video ()

• Utilize:

• Other tips:

• CP:

• Ban:

70-30 - Video ()

• Utilize:

• Other tips:

• CP:

• Ban:

Stage Specific:​

Battlefield

• Pros:

• Cons:

Final Destination

• Pros:

• Cons:

Smashville

• Pros:

• Cons:

Yoshi's Island

• Pros:

• Cons:

Frigate Orpheon

• Pros:

• Cons:

Lylat Cruise

• Pros:

• Cons:

Pokémon Stadium 1

• Pros:

• Cons:

Brinstar

• Pros:

• Cons:

Castle Siege

• Pros:

• Cons:

Delfino Plaza

• Pros:

• Cons:

Jungle Japes:

• Pros:

• Cons:

Rainbow Cruise

• Pros:

• Cons:

Norfair

• Pros:

• Cons:

PictoChat

• Pros:

• Cons:

-------------------------------------------------------------------​

Post with what opinions you want thrown in there regarding matchups, move information, everything listed. Right now, half the threads that aren't the social topic are either unused stickies or locked social threads. Our repository of information is pathetic compared to the other boards. I'd like to see this change, but I can only do so much.

also tell me if i ****ed up any matchup ratios lol

 

[John102]

I don't know where the hell you got the ganondorf ratio, it's always 100-0 ganon.

Yeah, so this looks good, I'll contribute later, even though that's not saying much, lol.

Edit: 1st

 

[audauro]

This thread is win.

As long as tekkie doesn't get lazy like me

 

[tekkie]

This thread is win.

As long as tekkie doesn't get lazy like me

im pretty ****ing lazy. pretty sure its a wolf main thing.

 

[Laem]

guess ill add some imo stuff:

nair & upsmash: recommended usage: 3

Reflector (Down Special)
Recommended Usage: 4
Uses: anti-juggle, reflecting items, shinespike
Other: has invinciblity on frame 1 , which means wide versatility

Fthrow
Recommended Usage: 2
Uses: throws forward nicely horizontally
Other: beginning of a certain combo

Bthrow
Recommended Usage: 1
Uses: substitute for upthrow at mid to high percents
Other: throws mainly upward instead of backwards, risky if used at 0%

Dthrow
Recommended Usage: 5
Uses: setting up a techchase, launching people offstage at semispike angle at high %.
Other: Risky if used at 0%, racks the most % of the 4 throws, techable right in front of you.

Uthrow
Recommended Usage: 4
Uses: throws above you, useful for setting up juggles
Other: -


guess ill add more whenever im in the mood for it

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Aerial Shine comboes into AAA
Nair OoS against cross-up approaches like Fox Nair -> Utilt
Ftilt against aerial approaches

 

[Seagull Joe]

Usmash uses-
Punish people airdodging into you.
Suck up when next to you (hitbox vid).

Jab uses-
When being jab cancelled.
Trying to escape combos.
Refreshing moves.

 

[tekkie]

Ftilt against aerial approaches

i dont think ive ever heard this before. could you elaborate a bit?

Jab uses-
When being jab cancelled.
Trying to escape combos.

by this do you mean mashing A or actually trying to land on the ground? i keep forgetting if youve answered this by now, but i mean in reference to aerial comboes especially (gonzo and whatnot)

 

[_Kain_]

i dont think ive ever heard this before. could you elaborate a bit?



by this do you mean mashing A or actually trying to land on the ground? i keep forgetting if youve answered this by now, but i mean in reference to aerial comboes especially (gonzo and whatnot)

I'm pretty sure he means like Falco's jab>grab. If you hold A u shud interrupt it instead of getting grabbed

 

[tekkie]

I'm pretty sure he means like Falco's jab>grab. If you hold A u shud interrupt it instead of getting grabbed

you can just hold A instead of having to keep pressing it?

 

[_Kain_]

you can just hold A instead of having to keep pressing it?

Holding A makes him keep doing the first jab over n over back to back til it connects. When it connects holding A will do all 3 of the hits for u

 

[tekkie]

Holding A makes him keep doing the first jab over n over back to back til it connects. When it connects holding A will do all 3 of the hits for u

should you be DIing away and if so wont that eff up the jab and turn it into an aerial?

also i thought flacos jab ***** wofls jab

 

[_Kain_]

should you be DIing away and if so wont that eff up the jab and turn it into an aerial?

also i thought flacos jab ***** wofls jab

DIing away is prolly best but jab can b used. Falco's jab doesnt knock u into the air unless ur at high percent. Falco's jab does **** wolfs but if they try to mix in a grab ur jab can stop it

 

[~ Gheb ~]

i dont think ive ever heard this before. could you elaborate a bit?

The biggest problem of ftilt is that it's unsafe on block unless perfectly spaced. When you hit a shield with the very tip of it (the disjointed part) it's safeish but that's really hard to do consistently. It's generally not a very good move against grounded opponents for that reason. If you miss the move entirely though it has rather little lag and the animation finishes rather quickly. Since your opponent can't shield when he's in the air it's the best time to use that move. It's fairly quick, has long range and can be angled upwards so you can beat out lots of aerial moves (it also trades with MK fair) from the ground.

It's one of the few moves in the game that's safer to miss completely than to hit a shield with.

 

[rvkevin]

It's one of the few moves in the game that's safer to miss completely than to hit a shield with.

Well, what makes it better than retreating SH Fair? Just because its better than against grounded opponents doesn't mean that its the best option for the situation.

 

[audauro]

Well, what makes it better than retreating SH Fair? Just because its better than against grounded opponents doesn't mean that its the best option for the situation.

you don't lose stage control

 

[rvkevin]

you don't lose stage control

Then do a SH Fair in place. Doing a SH Fair allows more freedom of mobility than a Ftilt. If they try to air dodge behind you with their back to you, they will be in a position to grab you, but if you do a retreating Fair, you will be a better position than if you Ftilt.

 

[audauro]

ftilt has more range than fair also

 

[audauro]

tekkie, check this blog out:

http://allisbrawl.com/blogpost.aspx?id=65033

 

[rvkevin]

tekkie, check this blog out:

http://allisbrawl.com/blogpost.aspx?id=65033

DK v Wolf is 50-50? :ough:: :ough::

Though it should be mentioned that Jumpshine counters characters who approach from above. (Peach, Lucario, etc.)

 

[tekkie]

i think a lot of those matchup numbers are wrong

 

[Ishiey]

Matchups #s are primarily opinion

As are reccomended move usages. Idk, but I feel very uncomfortable saying "use move x a lot but move y sparingly" unless it's something like bair vs I don't even know lol. I'd rather just have advantages and disadvantages of a move listed out, or at least have the rating system leave things a bit more open-ended.

Good thread regardless :3

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Well, what makes it better than retreating SH Fair?

a.) You stay in place
b.) You stay on the ground

If you're at the center of the stage or got the opponent near the ledge, why would you give your position up?

Then do a SH Fair in place.

The overall frame time for fair is pretty long. If you fair in place many chars can Nair you OoS before you can auto-cancel the fair.

Doing a SH Fair allows more freedom of mobility than a Ftilt.

But it also requires more commitment. You're forced to stay in a long animation without any hitbox for a considerable amount of time. The additional mobility simply doesn't make up for that in every situation.

If they try to air dodge behind you with their back to you, they will be in a position to grab you, but if you do a retreating Fair, you will be a better position than if you Ftilt.

Show me the character that can airdodge through Wolf's whole ftilt and his body. Yoshi, Wario, Jiggs and Falcon are like the only characters I can even imagine doing this. And even then you can still nair or jumpshine to beat pretty much every cross up / Shad approach in the game - as I said a whiffed ftilt has very little lag.

 

[rvkevin]

There are things called different positions. If someone is far away from you, don't do a retreating Fair, if they are close to you, don't do a Fair in place, I'm surprised I have to spell this out. If they are waiting in shield, able to punish with Nair OoS, I highly doubt that a Ftilt would be just as safe on shield as a retreating Fair. And yes, I was thinking of Wario.

 

[pulse131]

uair might be a 3, dont know about anybody else but i dont use it quite that much. but i didnt know fitlt was good against aerials o.o

 

[Destrawr]

Ok, I can add alot on matchups, thats where i tend to specialise.

(snake) 45-55 - Video ()

* Utilize: Fsmash after ALL his ftilts, it will hit almost every single possible time. If the snake is stupid enough to cypher late, bair wall, it does wonders giving at least 50% or so before he can get back. Lazers ruin his Mines, reflector his grenades if thrown early, if he tries to cook them, shoot a lazer to make him drop them. When falling, remember, wolf is a fastfaller so you never want to be near him, airdodge his mortar and never try to hit the ground when close to him, he will grab you and set up a tech chase.
Most snakes expect you to roll away from the edge after being grabbed, so roll towards it and most of the time you will escape. If they Ftilt while close to you, Shield into a Dsmash for a possible KO. Lazer stops his morar slide and dash attack, so if he approaches just begin to shoot. Uair Out prioratises ALL his arials, even if its only by a short distance. You never want to approach snake from above, his Utilt will wreck you.

* Other tips: C4s assplode after 20 seconds, grenades explode in 5 seconds. Many Snakes dont expect bair spam, so go at it, if they begin to shield it then stop doing it altogether as it will cost you considerable %

* CP: FD (No platforms to place C4s and Mines on, easy to get him at a vertical range)

* Ban: Halberd, Rainbow cruise, brinstar

Please note most of this is just from what i have seen and played and how i tend to win vs snakes, i hardly lose against them so i suspect what i do works.
Of course, if you are going to hate on me for doing it a different way, feel free.

 

[tekkie]

Many Snakes dont expect bair spam

you need to play better snakes mang

 

[rvkevin]

you need to play better snakes mang

Maybe he meant that Snake is one of the worst characters able to deal with Bair spam, which I tend to agree with (excluding the non-viable).

 

[tekkie]

Maybe he meant that Snake is one of the worst characters able to deal with Bair spam, which I tend to agree with (excluding the non-viable).

messing up by a few millimeters is a free ftilt/grab. snakes range is lol

 

[Ishiey]

Ftilt isn't too bad, it all depends on when you're using it and if your opponent knows that they have 20 frames to do something in between a shielded first hit and the second hit >_>

Uair is almost on the same level as bair imo, such a good move.

 

[rvkevin]

messing up by a few millimeters is a free ftilt/grab. snakes range is lol

Space better, the first hit of the Ftilt doesn't have the range for a decently spaced Bair, and by the time you land you can shield the second hit and punish with a Fsmash.

 

[Destrawr]

Maybe he meant that Snake is one of the worst characters able to deal with Bair spam, which I tend to agree with (excluding the non-viable).

10characters

 

[Laem]

just to put some life in this thread i suppose

Fair
Recommended Usage: 5
Uses: Approaching, killing
Other: Disjointed hitbox, make sure to autocancel it as well!

Bair
Recommended Usage: 5
Uses: ****
Other: best bair in the game

Dair
Recommended Usage: 2
Uses: Spiking on or offstage
Other: Don't rely on hitting with it.

Uair
Recommended Usage: 4
Uses: Juggling
Other: Disjointed hitbox

Blaster (Neutral Special)
Recommended Usage: 4
Uses: It's a projectile.
Other: The gun has a bayonet with a hitbox attached to it. It has horizontal knockback.

 

[Deleted member]

Cons of Lylat Cruise: Oh God, don't pick this stage...ever.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Wolf's pretty good on Lylat actually

 

[Deleted member]

Not when you're recovering.

 

[audauro]

just don't use side B to recover on the edge

 

[_Kain_]

Learn to angle

 

[Ishiey]

What everyone else said, Wolf has some interesting things going on for him at Lylat, although recovery definitely isn't one of them.

 

[Turbo Ether]

Wolf can go under Lylat and recover to the other side, at least. Lol.