Wolf's Frame Data - (WIP)

[KuroganeHammer]

It's autocancelled as well.

You can only autocancel dair from a full jump, and atm I'm looking at Wolf dair'ing Zelda's face atm and I'm giggling at the dumb disjoint the move has. It's just so ****ing ********. lol

 

[Ishiey]

lol I know, dair is so baller ;D When during the FH can Wolf initiate a dair so that it'll autocancel, can he do it after the apex and FF it?

 

[KuroganeHammer]

If he inputs it frame 18 and before it'll autocancel.

It has -19 and -12 when autocancelled.

*puts in OP*

Edit: I'm including the jump lag in those 18 frames. So the 5 frames it takes for him to get off the ground. So I guess it's technically frame 13.

 

[Ishiey]

WAIT. I thought Wolf's jumpsquat was 7 frames, so he's airborne starting frame 8? Although I'm pretty sure you actually tested this, so now I'm just super confused.

Reference: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=258564

 

[KuroganeHammer]

He is airborne on frame 6. It takes him 5 frames to leave the ground. I am 110% sure of this since I have tested it in FA hundreds of times and I'm even looking at the jump start up time in the pac file and it clearly says 5 frames.

Edit: 3000 posts. lol

 

[Ishiey]

@_______________@

I believe you. But damn.

So Wolf is actually tied with a bunch of other characters for fastest jump animation? Or do characters like MK leave the ground on frame 3 instead or something silly like that lol

 

[KuroganeHammer]

I believe Sheik and Fox and a few other characters leave the ground 1 frame faster than Wolf, so he's actually tied for second.

Poor Snake takes about 9 frames before he's airborne.

 

[Ishiey]

Interesting... so... a bunch of that jumpsquat data is wrong then lol. But good to know, time for more fair OoS I guess

 

[KuroganeHammer]

I can see why it's wrong. The data that was used was from BrawlBox, which... It's hard to explain, but the animations in BrawlBox are usually a lot longer than actually in Brawl, so I'd put my money on all of those values being wrong.

 

[Ishiey]

Oh snap lol

Just bumped the thread and pointed out that the jumpsquat data was wrong, hopefully someone gets around to fixing it up

 

[KuroganeHammer]

btw I don't have edge attack or get up attacks here, but I just want to point out that Wolf's slow edge attack is pretty good for a ledge attack.

 

[Ishiey]

Yeah, all spacies have a very safe >100% getup attack. I think Pikachu and G&W have good ones too, not sure though :x there was a time where I was testing what we could do against characters trying to use their standard options to get off the ledge, but that was a bit too abstract so I stopped, idk.

Any chance of getting data up for those if you have the time / run out of things to do?

 

[KuroganeHammer]

>I'll ever run out of things to do


But yeah, I've got the data, it's just a matter of sticking it in here all nice and pretty.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Floor attack (back)

Intangibility 1-26
Hitboxes 17-19, 24-26
Animation length 49

Floor attack (stomach)

Intangibility 1-26
Hitboxes 19-20, 25-26
Animation length 49

Sakurai Trip attack

Intangibility 1-8
Hitboxes 19-20, 25-26
Animation length 49

Edge Attack (fast)

Intangibility 1-24
Hitboxes 25-32
Animation length 53

Edge attck (slow)

Intangibility 1-58
Hitboxes 56-58
Interruptible 70
Animation length 89

There we go dudes. Have fun.

*goes to sleep*

 

[Skadorski]

K stupid question time (hopefully it hasn't been asked yet):
Why are there two different hitboxes for Utilt vs. grounded and aerial opponents?

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Why? I have no idea. I guess it was Sakurai's poor attempt at making moves unique and useful.

If you're asking what this means (I assume you are), then it means that the vs grounded opponents hitboxes can only hit a grounded opponent, and the vs aerial hitbox can only hit aerial opponents.

Basically the game has both hitboxes out, and when it connects with you, it asks if you're in the air or grounded and chooses the correct hitbox to hit you.

Shielding opponents act as if they're in the air and on the ground.

The best example of a move that uses the aerial/grounded only mechanic is Zelda's down aerial. No doubt you know that you cannot land the sweetspot on a grounded opponent, but you can on a shielding and aerial opponent.

 

[Skadorski]

Shielding opponents act as if they're in the air and on the ground.

Edit: nvm, I get it.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Haha, no worries. Any other questions and I'll happily answer them.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

I put some stuff into the second post. It's nothing ground breaking, but does it make sense to you guys?

 

[Wolf McBlue]

I put some stuff into the second post. It's nothing ground breaking, but does it make sense to you guys?

all that data, can't wait to see it completely full

 

[KuroganeHammer]

That's basically all the data there.

Shield damage is extra shield damage a move does. Every single ledge and get up attack Wolf has (and some of his throws) have +1 shield damage, but they're not important so I'll put them up later. Wolf's Dash attack has +1 shield damage for some reason, and I personally believe the +6 shield damage that jab 3 does is to compensate for how unsafe it is.

Transcendent is whether a move has transcendent priority or not. If it's marked N/N/N/Y like utilt, that means that the first three hitbubbles on top of the stack are not transcendent, but the last one is. N = no, Y = yes.

SDI multiplier shows how strongly affected a move is by SDI. 0.0x means your opponent cannot SDI at all, while 1.5x means your opponent will move further when they SDI.

Freeze frames is the multiplier for hitlag. During hitlag your opponent can SDI. Wolf's ftilt hit 1 has a RIDICULOUS amount of freeze frames. Attacks with a low freeze frame multiplier are generally more safe on shields.

Trip rate is obvious. Up aerial has a 35% chance for some reason, but it will never happen under any circumstances. Blaster has a 40% chance on two of the hitboxes of the melee hit and 37% on another one... I don't know why.

Rehit rate is how many frames a move takes to hit again. Basically they're hitboxes that reactivate after a certain amount of frames when they hit something.

Grounded/Aerial determines if a hitbox can hit grounded or aerial opponents. G means it can hit a grounded opponent ONLY, while A means it can only hit aerial opponents. '-' means it hits both.

Knocks forward is hard to explain and I cbf atm cause 1:30 am.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Double post.

How's the OP? Is this easy for you guys to understand?

 

[Ishiey]

I like it very much :3 only thing that'd make it better is hitbubbles, but seriously, this is absolutely awesome.

Why does Shine have KBK but no BKB?

Also, this should definitely be stickied, brb stickying

 

[Ishiey]

Also, request for DACUS information? On which frame(s) of the dash attack can we cancel the attack, and what frame will the first usmash hitbox come out on?

 

[Wolf McBlue]

What would be cool to see is info on our sideb, if anything about scarring?

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Also, request for DACUS information? On which frame(s) of the dash attack can we cancel the attack, and what frame will the first usmash hitbox come out on?

Said it in the other thread, but I'll say it again here; 3-4, so u-smash will hit 2-3 frames later

What would be cool to see is info on our sideb, if anything about scarring?

What info would you like to see?

 

[Wolf McBlue]

I would like to know about where the sweetspots are where in sideb it "spikes" the opponent also if any difference when cancelled. For scarring I'm just curious if there is any difference with either hit or something, since something has to happen when it happens, it pisses off my friends when I do it when they try to gimp me

 

[tekkie]

cancelling takes away the sweetspot, i'm 99%$ sure. ive hit with the sour spot though, its just the weak little slash thing

 

[SinisterB]

Cancels on the ledge still sweetspot.

Not sure about spike, but i'd assume so if they happen to get hit with the correct spacing.

Spoiler

at least i think.. i have to double check it lol

 

[tekkie]

cancels on the ledge? what do you mean?

 

[SinisterB]

Well it's something i'm still testing it out, but it's a good way to mix up our plank at the very least.

Basically, you perform a ledge drop & buffer half cancel (long) Flash over and over to sort of stick to the ledge, and if i'm right it puts out a hitbox that sweetspots the opponent if they approach it wrong; which if true means spikes are a possibility as well. Ignore the initial ledge grab every few to stay out longer, too.

Hoping to get some results this weekend.

 

[Ishiey]

You definitely need to save a replay of that and upload it or have someone upload it for you because I still don't really know what you mean by all that lol

 

[SinisterB]

I feel like it's pretty self-explanatory but it may be a lot more underwhelming than what i'm making it out to be.

But yeah, i'll try to get on that lol.

 

[Ojih~Sama]

i know wut hes talking about....

whenever u scar, u have to hold down on the control stick in order to do it and u have to be within distance to side b thru the stage ledge

wut hes mentioning is that whenever u side onto the ledge normally u can hold down on the control stick and it will keep the hitbox of wolf flash out for a few frames, however if u hold down for too long wolf will not grab the ledge and fall to his death

basically u are cancelling the auto ledge grab while side b(ing), briefly

 

[Ishiey]

But the thing is, he's talking about actually cancelling the sideB itself, not just delaying the ledgegrab :/

 

[Ojih~Sama]

ohhhhh, i was messing with this a long while ago but i nvr knew it put out a hitbox O.o

 

[SinisterB]

Yeah it's starting too look like it doesn't and is just a mix-up option.. could have sworn I landed a sweetspot before.

Regardless i'll be testing it out this weekend.


EDIT

So to touch back on this; It doesn't appear to have the sweetspot hitbox like I originally thought it might (sadface), however, it's a fairly cool concept that takes simplity & mixes it with some technical aspects. A great way to fake out a Scar. This is especially useful for building habits and getting hard baits, making our ledge game just that much more unpredictable & dangerous. While there isn't a big hitbox, it does have that sourspot mentioned earlier, and can actually perform a weak stage spike if the situation is right. Utilizing it correctly is the main thing here, it can be used to stall edgeguards before your initial sac while they're recovering, and just gives you more time to make ledge choices in general. Overall, this is just a mix-up tactic that should be used in conjuction with our other ledge options, (Blaster plank, Full Blaster plank, Scars, ect ect). It definitely has it's uses, so try it out and see how you like it. I've also got a couple other "new" tricks in the lab that i'll share after my Regional this weekend, just in case any of my lurkers are out there

So basically.. add another ledge trick to the book, boys

Spoiler

HOW TO PERFORM

It's relatively easy, just staying consistent and knowing when and when you shouldn't do it are the key factors here.

It goes,
Ledge Drop -> Half Cancel (long) Flash -> Ledge regrab -> Buffer Half Flash -> Rinse repeat until you choose another option

You can ignore the initial ledge grab frames by holding down if you'd like to stay out longer, for an edgeguard perhaps, but remember this leaves you out longer and more vulnerable.

 

[Ojih~Sama]

this is also a very good way to practice canceling aerial side b

need to get usb loader going for my non-disc reading wii........

 

[SinisterB]

yeah i forgot to mention that

 

[Dynomite]

Is there any frame data specifying the actual forward, back, down, and up toss of the throws? anything involving cooldown, amount of stun, and advantage?