Wolf's Frame Data - (WIP)

[KuroganeHammer]

[intro paragraph.]

Spoiler: Current Requests

| Requested By | Current Progress
(Example) ? | ? | ?

Table of Contents :​

( To skip to a section, Ctrl + F and search for its 4-letter code. )​

Section 1: Standard Terms [TRMS]​

​

Section 2: Frame & Hitbubble Data [FRME]​

2.1 Ground Moves [GRND]​

2.2 Aerial Moves [AERL]​

2.3 Specials [SPCL]​

2.4 Ledge Moves [LDGE]​

2.5 Tech & Trip Moves [TCHM]​

2.6 Item Moves [ITMM]​

Section 3: Techniques [TCHN]​

​

Section 4: Credits [CRDT]​

Section 1 / Standard Terms [TRMS]

[Dunno what to put here yet since I don't have a complete list of terms.]

Section 2 / Frame & Hitbubble Data [FRME]

​

​

Hitbox Active: Frames during which the attack's hitboxes are active.​

FAF (First Actionable Frame): First frame on which you can perform another move. This will be the animation's end or the IASA frame if the move has one.​

Fresh Damage: Fresh damage values for each hit.​

Angle: Angle at which the opponent will be knocked away.​

BKB: Base knockback of the move.​

KBG: Knockback growth of the move. This number affects how quickly knockback will increase relative to the opponent's damage.​

WKB: Weight knockback of the move. Determines how greatly knockback is affected by the opponent's weight.​

Block Advantage: Ground moves only. Frame difference between Wolf's FAF and the opponent's when the move hits the opponent's shield. Counted from first hit frame per damage value. Add +7 to find the normal shield drop advantage.​

Landing Lag: Aerials only. Number of frames Wolf lags when he hits the ground during the move.​

Autocancel: Aerials only. Frames during which Wolf can land without the aerial move's landing lag. (He will instead suffer normal jump landing lag.)​

Intangibility: Frames during which Wolf will take no damage.​

RCO (Recovery Carryover): In certain situations, some characters carry over lag from their up B and suffer extra lag the next time they land normally or with an aerial.​

​

2.1 Ground Moves [GRND]

Attacks	Hitbox Active	FAF	Base Dmg.	Angle	BKB	KBG	WKB	Block Adv.
Jab 1	4-5	22	3	80/35/30	22/26/28	30	0	-16
Jab 2	5-6	23	2	20/15/45	35/50/15	25	0	-17
Jab 3	5-6	36	4	55	40	140	0	-35
Dash Attack	11-12	38	9	80/50/361	50	80	0	-23
Ftilt (Hit 1)	8	33	5	361	10	110	0	-38
Ftilt (Hit 2)	9-10	33	6	361	40	120	0	-17
Utilt	7-11	36	10/9/8/10	80/80/80/88	30	120/115/115/115	0	-25
Dtilt	5-6	28	6	361	25	100	0	-20
Fsmash (Hit 1)	10-12	46	5/5/5/5/4	45/45/20/361/361	80/80/70/10/10	40/40/30/45/45	0	-34
Fsmash (Hit 1, Late)	13	46	5/5/5/5/4	45/45/70/361/361	80/80/0/0/10	40/40/100/100/45	0/0/40/40/0	-33
Fsmash (Hit 2)	16	46	10	361	30	106	0	-26
Usmash (Hit 1)	13-15	44	6	100/100/115/115	90	20	0	-28
Usmash (Hit 2)	20-22	44	12	90/361/361	45/50/50	85/100/100	0	-19
Dsmash (Hit 1)	8-9	35	14/14/12	35/35/361	40/50/50	90/90/60	0	-21
Dsmash (Hit 2)	14-15	35	13/13/10	35/35/361	40/50/50	90/90/60	0	-16
Grabs	Hitbox Active	FAF	Notes
Standing Grab	6-7	30	Average
Dash Grab	11-12	40	Average
Pivot Grab	9-10	36	Average
Grab Pummel	2	7	Very Fast
Miscellaneous	Intangibility	FAF
Spotdodge	2-20	26
Forward Roll	4-19	32
Back Roll	4-19	32
Up Taunt	-	100
Side Taunt	-	100
Down Taunt	-	110

2.2 Aerial Moves [AERL]

Attacks | Hitbox Active | FAF | Fresh Dmg. | Angle | BKB | KBG | WKB | Landing Lag | Autocancel | Notes Nair | 4-5, 6-34 | 43 | 8, 3/1/1 | 361, 361 | 40, 10/0/0 | 100, 100/100/0 | 0, 0/5/0 | 10 | 1-3, 38-44 | ?
Fair | 7-9 | 52 | 11 | 75 | 40 | 95 | 0 | 30 | 30-51 | ?
Bair | 6-9 | 30 | 13/11/10/9 | 361 | 20/20/20/0 | 96/96/96/100 | 0 | 9 | 1-5, 19-29 | ?
Uair | 7-9 | 39 | 12 | 80 | 30 | 75 | 0 | 9 | 1-6, 31-38 | ?
Dair | 16-17 | 60 | 15/13 | 270 | 6 | 90 | 0 | 19 | 1-4, 36-59 | ?
Jump Data | Jump Squat Duration | SH Air Time | FH Air Time | Soft Landing | Hard Landing | {colsp=5} Notes
| 5 | 31 | 47 | 2 | 4 | {colsp=5}?
Miscellaneous | Intangibility | Duration | {colsp=8} Notes Airdodge | 4-29 | 49 | {colsp=8}?

2.3 Specials [SPCL]

Attacks | Hitbox Active | FAF | Fresh Dmg. | Angle | BKB | KBG | WKB | Block Adv. | Notes Blaster | 11-12 | 45 | 4 | 20 | 70 | 40 | 0 | -32 | ?
Blaster Shot Close Range | 16-21 | - | 5 | 40 | 0 | 100 | 20 | -22 | ?
Blaster Shot Mid Range | 22-35 | - | 6 | 40 | 0 | 100 | 24 | -14 | ?
Blaster Shot Long Range | 36-48 | - | 5 | 40 | 0 | 100 | 20 | -2 | ?
Blaster Shot (???) | ? | - | 4 | 40 | 0 | 100 | 14 | ? | I don't know what this is to be honest.
Wolf Illusion (Grounded 1st hit) | 19-20 | - | 3 | 80 | 68 | 40 | 0 | -48 | ?
Wolf Illusion (Aerial 1st hit) | 21-22 | - | 3 | 80 | 68 | 40 | 0 | -49 | ?
Wolf Illusion (???) | ? | - | 3 | 60 | 68 | 60 | 0 | ? | This exists, but I dunno what it is.
Wolf Illusion (Grounded end) | 21 | 74 | 15/10 | 270/28 | 20/30 | 80/106 | 0 | -61 | ?
Wolf Illusion (Aerial end) | 23 | 77 | 15/10 | 270/28 | 20/30 | 80/106 | 0 | -62 | -40 if you grab the ledge
Wolf Illusion (Scar) | 23 | 57 | 15/10 | 270/28 | 20/30 | 80/106 | 0 | -42 | ?
Fire Wolf (1st hit) | 23 | - | 2 | 100 | 0 | 100 | 15 | -49 | ?
Fire Wolf (Intermediate) | 27-47 | - | 1 | 45/365/45/361 | 0 | 70/12/70/50 | 60/0/70/70 | - | ?
Fire Wolf (Grounded final hit) | 52 | 73 | 3 | 65 | 80 | 131 | 0 | -28 | ?
Fire Wolf (Aerial final hit) | 52 | ? | 4 | 361 | 60 | 115 | 0 | -47 | ?
Reflector | 8-9 | 27 | 3 | 10 | 0 | 100 | 40 | -20 | Reflects on 10

RCO Lag | Soft Landing | Hard Landing Fire Wolf | 15 | 36
Wolf Illusion | 15 | 26

2.4 Ledge Moves [LDGE]

Attacks | Hitbox Active | FAF | Fresh Dmg. | Angle | BKB | KBG | WKB | Block Adv. | Notes Ledge Attack <100% | 25-32 | 55 | 8/8/6 | 361, 361 | 0 | 100 | 110 | -27 | Lots of range. Deals more damage closer to Wolf.
Ledge Attack >100% | 56-58 | 70 | 10 | 361, 361 | 0 | 100 | 110 | -11 | Not including Blaster, Wolf's safest grounded move.
Miscellaneous | Intangibility | FAF | {colsp=7} Notes Ledge Grab | 1-46 | 24 (Ledge actions), 26 (Ledge drop) | {colsp=7}?
Ledge Climb <100% | 1-30 | 35 | {colsp=7}?
Ledge Climb >100% | 1-55 | 60 | {colsp=7}?
Ledge Roll <100% | 1-34 | 50 | {colsp=7}?
Ledge Roll >100% | 1-61 | 80 | {colsp=7}?
Ledge Jump <100% | 1-10 | 11 | {colsp=7}?
Ledge Jump >100% | 1-19 | 20 | {colsp=7}?

2.5 Tech & Trip Moves [TCHM]

Attacks | Hitbox Active | FAF | Fresh Dmg. | Angle | BKB | KBG | WKB | Block Adv. | Notes Get Up Attack (Back) | 17-19, 24-26 | 50 | 6, 6 | 361, 361 | 80, 80 | 50, 50 | 0, 0 | -30, -23 | ?
Get Up Attack (Stomach) | 19-20, 25-26 | 50 | 6, 6 | 361 | 80, 80 | 50, 50 | 0, 0 | -28, -22 | ?
Trip Get Up Attack | 19-20, 25-26 | 50 | 5, 5 | 361 | 60, 60 | 50, 50 | 0, 0 | -29, -23 | Trip actions always suck.
Miscellaneous | Intangibility | FAF | {colsp=7} Notes Tech | 1-20 | 27 | {colsp=7}?
Tech Roll Forward | 1-20 | 41 | {colsp=7}?
Tech Roll Backward | 1-20 | 41 | {colsp=7}?
Flop | - | 27 | {colsp=7}?
Stand (Back) | 1-22 | 30 | {colsp=7}?
Stand (Stomach) | 1-22 | 30 | {colsp=7}?
Get Up Roll Forward (Back) | 1-19 | 36 | {colsp=7}?
Get Up Roll Backward (Back) | 1-20 | 36 | {colsp=7}?
Get Up Roll Forward (Stomach) | 1-19 | 36 | {colsp=7}?
Get Up Roll Backward (Stomach) | 1-24 | 36 | {colsp=7}?
Dash Trip | - | ? | {colsp=7}?
Pivot Trip | - | ? | {colsp=7}?
Forced Trip | - | ? | {colsp=7}?
Trip Stand | 1-17 | 22 | {colsp=7}?
Trip Roll Forward | 1-10 | 29 | {colsp=7}?
Trip Roll Backward | 1-10 | 29 | {colsp=7}?

2.6 Item Moves [ITMM]

| Item Thrown On | FAF | Notes Forward Toss (Ground) | 8 | 25 | ?
Back Toss (Ground) | 11 | 25 | ?
Up Toss (Ground) | 12 | 24 | ?
Down Toss (Ground) | 7 | 20 | Hitbox doesn't come out.
Dash Toss | 5 | 38 | ?
Forward Toss (Air) | 8 | 25 | ?
Back Toss (Air) | 11 | 25 | ?
Up Toss (Air) | 12 | 24 | ?
Down Toss (Air) | 7 | 20 | ?

Section 3 / Techniques [TCHN]

[Dunno what to put here yet since I don't have a complete list of techs.]

Section 4 / Credits [CRDT]

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Super speshul awesum stuff

Move Properties

Attacks | Shield Damage | Transcendent | SDI Multiplier | Freeze Frames | Trip Rate (%) | Rehit Rate | Grounded/Aerial | Knocks Forward? Jab 1 | - | N | 0.5x | 1.0x | - | - | - | - | - | -
Jab 2 | - | N | 0.3x | 1.0x | - | - | - | - | - | -
Jab 3 | +6 | N | 1.0x | 2.0x | - | - | - | - | - | -
Dash Attack | +1 | N | 1.0x | 1.0x | - | - | - | - | - | -
Ftilt (1st hit) | - | Y/N/N | 0.0x | 3.0x | - | - | - | - | - | -
Ftilt (2nd hit) | - | Y/N/N | 1.0x | 0.5x | - | - | - | - | - | -
Utilt | - | N/N/N/Y | 1.0x | 1.0x | - | - | G/A/-/- | - | - | -
Dtilt | - | N | 1.0x | 1.0x | 40% | - | - | - | - | -
Fsmash (1st hit) | - | N | 1.0x | 1.0x | 0/0/0/60/60 | - | A/A/G/G/G | Y | - | -
Fsmash (1st hit late) | - | N | 1.0x | 1.0x | 0/0/0/0/60 | - | A/A/G/G/G | Y | - | -
Fsmash (2nd hit) | - | N | 1.0x | 1.0x | - | - | - | Y
Usmash (1st hit) | - | N | 1.0x | 1.0x | - | - | - | - | - | -
Usmash (2nd hit) | - | N | 1.0x | 1.0x | - | - | - | - | - | -
Dsmash (1st hit) | - | N | 1.0x | 1.0x | 35% | - | - | - | - | -
Dsmash (2nd hit) | - | N | 1.0x | 1.0x | 35% | - | - | - | - | -
Nair (1st hit) | - | N | 1.0x | 1.0x | - | - | - | - | - | -
Nair (2nd hit) | - | N | 1.0x | 1.0x | - | 6 | - | Y | - | -
Fair | - | N | 1.0x | 1.0x | - | - | - | - | - | -
Bair | - | N | 1.0x | 1.0x | - | - | - | - | - | -
Uair | - | N | 1.0x | 1.0x | 35% | - | - | - | - | -
Dair | - | N | 1.5x | 1.0x | - | - | - | - | - | -
Blaster | - | Y | 1.0x | 1.0x | 40/40/37 | - | - | - | - | -
Blaster Shot | - | Y | 1.0x | 0.2x | - | - | - | Y
Wolf Illusion (weak) | - | N | 1.0x | 1.0x | - | - | - | Y
Wolf Illusion (strong) | - | Y | 1.0x | 1.5x | - | - | - | -
Fire Wolf (start) | - | Y | 1.0x | 1.0x | - | 6 | - | -
Fire Wolf (middle) | - | N | 0.0x | 0.5x | - | 3 | G/A/G/A | Y
Fire Wolf (Aerial end) | - | Y | 1.0x | 2.5x | - | - | - | Y
Fire Wolf (Ground end) | - | Y | 1.0x | 2.5x | - | - | - | Y
Reflector | - | Y | 1.0x | 1.0x | - | - | - | - | - | -

-----------------------------

Reserving this post.

Will work on this again later tonight. Hopefully all the hard data will be finished by then.

Edit: To read the data easily, make sure you use an "unlimited" skin or a skin that doesn't scrunch the posts up. I personally recommend Vibrant.

 

[Ishiey]

I love you.

 

[SinisterB]

Great work, Aero. Props.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

By the way, feel free to ask any questions regarding Wolf's moveset here/discuss images.

I personally feel his up-tilt is ridiculously short ranged vs aerial opponents to the point where it's hardly usable. Yet he has the most ridiculous disjoint vs grounded opponents.

It hardly makes sense. :/

 

[Ishiey]

Yeah, I was going to mention that lol. Wtf, really :/ guess it's best used for catching airdodges onto platforms.

Why does nair have two hitbox durations, when it hits like four times? But I trust you'll take care of nair and it's oddities later on also, what are the frame windows during our jab where we can cancel it or continue it? I'll ask other questions once it's morning here and I feel like getting out of bed lol

 

[KuroganeHammer]

That's exactly why nair is weird. I'll explain it later, since I'm about to head out the door. (I was gonna explain it when I posted the thread, but didn't have time)

iirc the jab interval time was 9-24.

 

[-Shiro-]

I love you

 

[~ Gheb ~]

*fap fap fap*

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Update:

All grounded moves completed (Including Grabs, but there's something not right about pivot. I'll check it later), all aerials except nair completed, Blaster completed; Wolf Illusion and Reflector only need their intangibility frames added; Fire Wolf will be a dozy.

 

[tekkie]

utilt just sucks because it doesnt have much of a horizontal hitbox. wofl needs bigger feet, or clown shows, or something.

 

[SinisterB]

It's great for pokes though, comes out so fast it makes for a pretty janky mix-up. Best used under BF's platforms.

But yeah, questions later probably.

 

[-Shiro-]

Areo I don't understand when you say Advantage on shield does that mean for opponents of the wolf ?

 

[rPSIvysaur]

Can you use base damage and not fresh damage? It annoys me seeing that when every other calculation is based off of the base damage and not the fresh damage v_v

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Areo I don't understand when you say Advantage on shield does that mean for opponents of the wolf ?

It's the advantage for Wolf. That's why there's almost always a negative number.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Areo I don't understand when you say Advantage on shield does that mean for opponents of the wolf ?

Wofl.

Basically when it's minus, that's how many frames your opponent has to punish you (optimally, so it's basically worst case scenario).

Autocancelled bair is -8 oos and -1 normal shield making it an amazing move.

Can you use base damage and not fresh damage? It annoys me seeing that when every other calculation is based off of the base damage and not the fresh damage v_v

Naww okay.

I guess I'll make a subsection with fresh/stale damage.

 

[MegaRobMan]

*reaction to thread*

http://pretprieel.nl/pictures/Randy_Marsh_covered_in_ectoplasm.jpg

So...Wolfs jab is basically an overhead, right?

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Yeah.

Also his hand isn't a hurtbox making it even more disjointed.

 

[MegaRobMan]

So, I'm going to be playing Wolf more and more like sheik, looooool

Sheiks jab in melee is the SO GOOD for anti-air (beats Falcons knee if you do it right). I think Wolf's jab, because of the way it comes out, could be just a good for anti-air.

-Goes to lab. MMM, chocolate lab.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

His ftilt angled up might be better as an anti-air though. A lot more range and a transcendent hitbox.

Might put images up later.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Double post.

Okay, regarding nair and up b, you might notice that they only have one hitbox over a large duration despite the fact that they both hit multiple times.

The reason for this is because they have a special property called the "rehit rate". Basically the rehit rate allows the one hitbox to hit over ever X frames. For Up B, this is 3 and for nair (ONLY the two 1% hits) this is 6. This explains nair's weirdness. Fascinatingly nair has a hitbox that does 0/0 BKB/KBG which means it won't make the target flinch.

Here are my notes that I observed during nair:

- The 8% hit is a completely normal (and by extension, BORING) hitbox
[collapse=image]

[/collapse]

- If any part of the attack hits a shield, it will no longer produce hitboxes on that opponent. If another player runs into you, the hitboxes will hit them however.

- Interestingly if the attack hits a hurtbox such as a exposed leg of the person shielding, the hitbox with activate even if they shielded the attack. Also if they drop their shield, the hitboxes will start hitting again.

Here are some more images of the late part of nair:

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

- The 3% hit can ONLY hit once (For the record, it's that one hitbox in the middle that just... sits there), but it's active for as long as the other 1% hits.
- The outer tail hitbox deals no knockback. In fact, it's the hitbox that doesn't make your opponent flinch
- These three hitboxes will always knock the opponent in the direction Wolf is facing

That's what I found anyway. The 3% hit and the 1% hit that does knockback locks, so maybe keep that in mind. The other 1% hitbox doesn't though because it deals no knockback.

Regarding Up B, the small hits that do 1% have the rehit rate of 3, when shielded deal enough shield hitlag to continue to the next hit. Also the hitbox is huge. And it knocks people in a 365 degree angle (Don't ask me why.) The small hits in the middle also have a 0x SDI ability, though characters with frame 1 intangibility moves can escape due to the hitstun being pitiful but ONLY on hit (So yes, up B is a move where it is more beneficial for you when your opponent shields it... WTF Sakurai?!).

It also has 0.5x freeze frames which is half the reason why people can't do anything on block.

Sorry if that's a bit poorly explained, if you need clarification, feel free to ask.

 

[JCav]

What makes the First Actionable Frame for Illusion variable?

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Well there's things like if you're scarring, or you hit uneven ground, or you land on top of a platform or if you use it in the air.

 

[Ishiey]

First off, will there eventually be images for every move? :3

Next most important thing, that nair post needs to be somewhere in the OP lol. Nair-specific questions:

- (not really nair-related, but) what are freeze frames?

- If the hitbox at Wolf's head is 1, the one on his back 2, and the one on his bottom 3, you're saying that 1 does 3% and can only hit once during that window, 2 refreshes every 6 frames after the last hit from nair and deals 1% + KB, and 3 is like 2 without KB, correct?

- If the above is true and we follow that numbering system, is there any priority with the hitboxes if they overlap, like 1>2>3?

- What did you mean by the following? I don't understand, it seems to contradict the previous statement X_x

- Interestingly if the attack hits a hurtbox such as a exposed leg of the person shielding, the hitbox with activate even if they shielded the attack. Also if they drop their shield, the hitboxes will start hitting again.

Now, onto other frame-related questions and requests...

- For jab1 and jab2, can you put the range of frames where it can be cancelled as well as the range of frames where it can be continued? If there's an overlap between the two, how does the game determine if one continues the jab or cancels it?

- Can you show the hitboxes on each frame for dtilt? I have a suspicion that the first frame of the attack has horrible range :x

- Utilt has an 8% and 9% hitbox too, should these be noted? On the same note, Dair has as 13% hitbox as well.

- Fsmash has 3 hits? How does the second hit function?

- Any chance you can throw in the advantage on a SH fair, since it's commonly used in that form for the autocancel?

- Autocancel means landing in this period gives 0 lag, or standard landing lag (2 for soft, 4 for hard)? I still don't know, and think it might be 0 because iirc Wolf can SH fair onto Snake's mine and PS it, but idk X_x

- For bair, shieldstun of 4 and landing lag of 9 should make it -5 on shield if used right before landing, right? And how did you calculate the following?

Autocancelled bair is -8 oos and -1 normal shield making it an amazing move.

- Any chance of more info in duration and FAF for sideB?

- Can you find the frame window after reflecting something that Wolf is still able to jump/roll etc out of shine?

- What's wrong with pivot grab again? And lol, dashgrab can we still frame-perfect dashgrab CG ness?

- What do the different colored hitbubbles mean again? Yellow/Orange/Green, as well as the star or the angle? :x

- What do the dotted borders on the bottom hitbox of utilt mean?

- Disjoints and whatnot, related to these two posts about jab:

Also his hand isn't a hurtbox making it even more disjointed.

His ftilt angled up might be better as an anti-air though. A lot more range and a transcendent hitbox.

Might put images up later.

Please put up images? lol and how do you know what parts of Wolf's body are/aren't hurtboxes? If Wolf's hand is always disjointed, does that mean dsmash/fair/fsmash/uair are actually super lol?

 

[MegaRobMan]

Nair-specific questions:

- (not really nair-related, but)

 

[Ishiey]

Hey, it was related to the post with all the nair info also, lol @ woflcopter

 

[KuroganeHammer]

First off, will there eventually be images for every move? :3

There will eventually be animated gifs for every move.

Next most important thing, that nair post needs to be somewhere in the OP lol. Nair-specific questions:

- (not really nair-related, but) what are freeze frames?

Basically hitlag. Wolf's f-tilt has 3x freeze frames, but these freeze frames only apply to Wolf and an opponent he hits. They do not apply to shields. (Which is why Jab3 (2x freeze frames) and ftilt1 (3x freeze frames) are so unsafe, while ftilt2 (0.5x freeze frames) is a lot safer than you'd think.

- If the hitbox at Wolf's head is 1, the one on his back 2, and the one on his bottom 3, you're saying that 1 does 3% and can only hit once during that window, 2 refreshes every 6 frames after the last hit from nair and deals 1% + KB, and 3 is like 2 without KB, correct?

Correct.

- If the above is true and we follow that numbering system, is there any priority with the hitboxes if they overlap, like 1>2>3?

Every attack in the game has this sort of overlapping priority. All hitboxes are assigned an "ID". An ID of 0>1>2>3>4 and so on and so forth. I'll show you what I mean when I show you dair's hitbox.

- What did you mean by the following? I don't understand, it seems to contradict the previous statement X_x

As it said, if it hits a shield, only one hitbox will hit the shield, but if they drop the shield halfway through the move, the hitbox will start hitting them again.

I theorise this has something to do with the rehit rate determining a hurtbox to be different to a shield and hitting from there.

I think it's similar to how if Marth powershields Wolf's ftilt1, he can drop his shield and then use Counter, and ftilt1 will hit Marth's counter. (If that makes sense)

Now, onto other frame-related questions and requests...

- For jab1 and jab2, can you put the range of frames where it can be cancelled as well as the range of frames where it can be continued? If there's an overlap between the two, how does the game determine if one continues the jab or cancels it?

Sure, I have to figure that out though by checking the pac file (This is low on my priority list.)

- Can you show the hitboxes on each frame for dtilt? I have a suspicion that the first frame of the attack has horrible range :x

Second frame is shorter.

- Utilt has an 8% and 9% hitbox too, should these be noted? On the same note, Dair has as 13% hitbox as well.

Eh, I was going to at first, but I dunno.

Regarding dair:

See how the big hitbox overlaps the smaller one? The smaller one is the 13% hit. If a characters hurtbox overlaps both these hitboxes, the 15% hit will win out.

As you can see, it's almost impossible to hit with the 13% hit.

- Fsmash has 3 hits? How does the second hit function?

There's actually only two hits, but the first hitbox on 10-12 changes into a different hitbox on 13.

- Any chance you can throw in the advantage on a SH fair, since it's commonly used in that form for the autocancel?

Okay.

- Autocancel means landing in this period gives 0 lag, or standard landing lag (2 for soft, 4 for hard)? I still don't know, and think it might be 0 because iirc Wolf can SH fair onto Snake's mine and PS it, but idk X_x

2 for soft, 4 for hard for (most) characters. What you are likely experiencing is your shield extending your hurtboxes and coming into collision zone with Snake's mine.

An explanation if you don't understand: If you stand just outside an attacks range, but shield while the hitboxes are still happening (G&W forward smash is a good example), there's a high likelihood you'll PS it since your shield bubble is now overlapping with the hitbox.

- For bair, shieldstun of 4 and landing lag of 9 should make it -5 on shield if used right before landing, right? And how did you calculate the following?

It was autocancelled.

- Any chance of more info in duration and FAF for sideB?

Maybe. I'm not convinced it's worth my time and effort.

- Can you find the frame window after reflecting something that Wolf is still able to jump/roll etc out of shine?

Sure.

- What's wrong with pivot grab again? And lol, dashgrab can we still frame-perfect dashgrab CG ness?

Dunno, the last frame data thread said it was 36 minimum duration, but I'm only counting 35.

I'll check the Ness thing (though it's pretty useless).

- What do the different colored hitbubbles mean again? Yellow/Orange/Green, as well as the star or the angle? :x

Coloured hitboxes mean its type. Yellow is hand, green is tail etc.

The star means the SAKURAI!!!! angle, which has a 11% chance to trip (usually).

- What do the dotted borders on the bottom hitbox of utilt mean?

It's transcendant.

- Disjoints and whatnot, related to these two posts about jab:



Please put up images? lol and how do you know what parts of Wolf's body are/aren't hurtboxes? If Wolf's hand is always disjointed, does that mean dsmash/fair/fsmash/uair are actually super lol?

The yellow bits are a bit hard to see, but they're the hurtboxes.

 

[MegaRobMan]

Hey, it was related to the post with all the nair info also, lol @ woflcopter

I didn't even have to edit it.

"Okay now for questions about penguins

Okay, (this one isn't really about penguins) do you like oranges?"

basically what you said.

@Aerodome, fascinating stuff.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

*Aerodrome

 

[Ishiey]

@ MRM: fine, you win, just leave me alone ;__; lol

@ Aerodrome: Everything that isn't quoted I understand and have no questions on. Thanks a bunch yet again btw :3

I think it's similar to how if Marth powershields Wolf's ftilt1, he can drop his shield and then use Counter, and ftilt1 will hit Marth's counter. (If that makes sense)

Wait. That doesn't make sense X_x nair does because of the rehit rate, but ftilt1 doesn't have that... does it? D:

There's actually only two hits, but the first hitbox on 10-12 changes into a different hitbox on 13.

So does this new hitbox change for the grounded part, or the aerial part, or both become merged into one hitbox that hits all characters?

It was autocancelled.

I got that, but how did you calculate that exactly? Hit frame 6, so 18 (AC frame) - 6 = 12, -4 (shieldstun) = -8 frame advantage, correct? And does that mean I did my calculation correctly for a bair that connects the frame before landing?

Maybe. I'm not convinced it's worth my time and effort.

Only reason I'd be curious is to determine the disadvantage on shield when scarring, otherwise it's basically useless imo lol. Is there different landing lag depending on the height from which Wolf falls, kinda like MK's tornado landing lag or anything?

It's transcendant.

As in, it won't clash with any attacks, correct?

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Wait. That doesn't make sense X_x nair does because of the rehit rate, but ftilt1 doesn't have that... does it? D:

No ftilt doesn't, but Marth's Counter resets his collision state (for lack of a better phrase), and I think dropping your shield is similar to that to a certain extent.

So does this new hitbox change for the grounded part, or the aerial part, or both become merged into one hitbox that hits all characters?

It changes the grounded part. Frame 13 doesn't have a trip %.

I got that, but how did you calculate that exactly? Hit frame 6, so 18 (AC frame) - 6 = 12, -4 (shieldstun) = -8 frame advantage, correct? And does that mean I did my calculation correctly for a bair that connects the frame before landing?

Uhm, idk, I just jump, find the frame that X attack autocancels and do it frame disadvantage optimally from there.

Calculations just bring mechanical errors. I like to do practical hands on work.

Is there different landing lag depending on the height from which Wolf falls, kinda like MK's tornado landing lag or anything?

Nope. Just your friendly RCO lag.

As in, it won't clash with any attacks, correct?

Yeah. Also that hitbox is only there for one frame iirc.

 

[Ishiey]

Uhm, idk, I just jump, find the frame that X attack autocancels and do it frame disadvantage optimally from there.

Calculations just bring mechanical errors. I like to do practical hands on work.

Meh, fair enough :/ I just don't see the error in my calculation, and was told it was wrong before, but never really got a clear understanding as to why X_x

Nope. Just your friendly RCO lag.

I meant like, if I sideB and follow the stage (scarring) as opposed to sideBing without (so that I'm in the air and have a few frames of free-fall) as opposed to the previous but higher in the air, what's the cooldown for the first one, and is there any difference between the landing lag depending on the number of frames of freefall? Like how MK's tornado automatically has 30 frames of cooldown between freefall+lading lag or something iirc.

WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Meh, fair enough :/ I just don't see the error in my calculation, and was told it was wrong before, but never really got a clear understanding as to why X_x

Try:

Hit Frame - End Frame + Shield Stun + Shield Hitlag - Hitlag = shield advantage

I meant like, if I sideB and follow the stage (scarring) as opposed to sideBing without (so that I'm in the air and have a few frames of free-fall) as opposed to the previous but higher in the air, what's the cooldown for the first one, and is there any difference between the landing lag depending on the number of frames of freefall? Like how MK's tornado automatically has 30 frames of cooldown between freefall+lading lag or something iirc.

I don't think so.

WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

 

[Ishiey]

6 - 7 (next frame for landing) - 9 (for landing lag) + 4 + 10 - 10 (assuming, since iirc shieldlag=hitlag for bair)
= -6 for a "perfect" bair... I think. MAN, whatever I'm on break time to not worry about relatively trivial things lol

But yeah, guess I'm finally done with questions :3

 

[KuroganeHammer]

I'll recheck it out. It was a spur of the moment thing (I only tested it once) so I could be wrong.

Edit: Wait, yours isn't autocancelled, mine was. There's the problem.

 

[Ishiey]

lol yeah, but wait. What I said before about AC bair:

"Hit frame 6, so 18 (AC frame) - 6 = 12, -4 (shieldstun) = -8 frame advantage, correct?"

BUT, since there are 2 frames of landing lag on an AC, wouldn't it be -10 then?

 

[KuroganeHammer]

I'll check it out when I'm not busy. :x

 

[Ishiey]

So... how's updating this thread going

Spoiler

Yeah, this is a bump, sue me

 

[KuroganeHammer]

You were right, AC bair is -10 when perfect shielded/OoS. lol

Also AC Fair and Uair have -21 OoS and -14 normal.

cbf nair because it's too freaking weird.

Will do dair now for Zync.

 

[Ishiey]

Yaaaay I can do math and stuff :3

That's not as good as I was hoping for on fair :< is that for AC uair or uair while landing on the first possible frame?