Symphony X
Smash Lord
Sure don't. As long as your Wolf support is bigger than that of Krystal.
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Wolf O'Donnell for Brawl: The only good choice for a starfox villain
- Thread starter xianfeng
- Start date
- Status
Patinator
Smash Champion
Congrats Chaos on the 3000th post! But it isn't impressive until... (You ALL know what's coming next...)
IT'S OVER NINE-THOUSAND!!!!!
IT'S OVER NINE-THOUSAND!!!!!
Mega-Ridley-Knight-Man
Smash Ace
Its only over 3000.
actually i never thought i'd say this but by no one else's peer pressure i'm more for wolf than krystal... it's just the speed thing has been done, and a villain would simply seem like he'd have a more vicious moveset, but i am still for krystal because of the STAFFzors
...wanna fight about it?
http://bigwhoopwannafightaboutit.ytmnd.com/
Wu Tang Gang
Smash Ace
Nice! All his themes are just kickass. I'm pretty sure he'd remix SF2 or SFA or SFC, though, since it's either the most recent ones or the lost one.
Patinator
Smash Champion
Well, I mean the post count won't be impressive until it's over nine thousand. ...I've heard that somewhere before...
...Thread subject begins with an R, ends with an Idley...
Anyway, I just hope Wolf has good music. Could his victory theme be different from Fox's, like Meta Knight's is to Kirby's?
...Thread subject begins with an R, ends with an Idley...
Anyway, I just hope Wolf has good music. Could his victory theme be different from Fox's, like Meta Knight's is to Kirby's?
chaos_Leader
Smash Lord
If they're going through the trouble of letting rivals have a different victory fanfare than the protagonists, I would think Wolf gets his own as well.
Wu Tang Gang
Smash Ace
Yeah, I'd think so. The only problem, is that sometimes in Command he joins the StarFox team. It's arguable to which fanfare he gets.
Patinator
Smash Champion
A darker, maybe heavy metal form of Fox's could work, as Meta Knight's is a rock version of Kirby's, according to E for All. Good thing, because I wouldn't enjoy seeing some evilish winged swordsman who say "Victory... Is my destiny!" with that weird, overly-happy, bouncy music of Kirby's in the background. O_o
Mega-Ridley-Knight-Man
Smash Ace
Actually their Ridley threads always go closed before they reached 9 thousand... but both combined equal up to around 17 thousand.
Anyways, who here prefers the 64 version of Wolf to the assault one? *raises hand*
Anyways, who here prefers the 64 version of Wolf to the assault one? *raises hand*
Stryks
Smash Hero
I really liked the assault one, more badass, but both are awesome, also cybernetic eye ftw...
Mega-Ridley-Knight-Man
Smash Ace
The thing I didn't like about Assault was... mainly, they were to old. I mean Wolf was young and cocky in 64, but in assault he was old and cocky, two things which... don't go together to well.
But the way I see it is that he may be badass but in a way that tries a bit to hard, he is to much like a villain now instead of a rival.
But the way I see it is that he may be badass but in a way that tries a bit to hard, he is to much like a villain now instead of a rival.
Rarzy
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Sep 23, 2007
- Messages
- 268
if anything, being older just makes him more badass. being old and at the same time cocky just goes to show how much the character has been through and not greatly affected by the traumautizing stuff he's probably seen. if that makes sense.
chaos_Leader
Smash Lord
There's nothing wrong with old + Badass: (see footnote) And what kind of villain would go out of his way to keep the protagonist safe? *does quick research* From what I can gather, Wolf isn't a true Villain or a true Rival. The closest I can place him is a variation of an anti-villain whereas Andross (or aproid queen/anglar emperor/insert power-hungry Dumb@ss here) is a true Villian. Falco has some characteristics of an Anti-Hero, and Fox, of course, is the stereotypical Hero.
A visual representation may help:
Evil----------------------------------------------------------------------------Good
Stupid--------------------------------Smart---------------------------------Stupid
Villain-------><------ Anti-Villain-----><------Anti-Hero-------><--------Hero
(Footnote) : A prime example of a character who is older and basass from a recent video game is the character of Canderous from the S.W. Knights of the old Republic game: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canderous_Ordo#Ordo.2C_Canderous
Personally, my favorite character from that game.
A visual representation may help:
Evil----------------------------------------------------------------------------Good
Stupid--------------------------------Smart---------------------------------Stupid
Villain-------><------ Anti-Villain-----><------Anti-Hero-------><--------Hero
(Footnote) : A prime example of a character who is older and basass from a recent video game is the character of Canderous from the S.W. Knights of the old Republic game: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canderous_Ordo#Ordo.2C_Canderous
Personally, my favorite character from that game.
chaos_Leader
Smash Lord
darn double post
Wu Tang Gang
Smash Ace
Who cares if he's old and badass? Ever heard of Big-Boss?
Patinator
Smash Champion
Wolf's old in Assault? Didn't know that. He looks normal in Command...
Desruprot
Smash Lord
His Assault Costume is great, I agree there, along with his eye...however I do not think he looks older in Assault though, if you compare colors between the 64 version and Assault you will find his Fur/Hair Color to be the exact same...
Mega-Ridley-Knight-Man
Smash Ace
Desruport. Actually compare the two characters appearance from the two games.
Also I never said there was anything wrong with being old and bad ***.
Also I never said there was anything wrong with being old and bad ***.
Koji Syntax
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Jul 17, 2007
- Messages
- 72
I think the Starfox games have kinda... gone down from 64. C'mon, adventures... Starfox wasn't meant to be a platformer. And I'm sorry to all the Krystal fans when I say this, she should never have existed. I think that they need to make a new Starfox 64, and I beleive the Wii is the perfect place to do that. Miyamoto even said that the Wiimote would be perfect for controlling an arwing. I beleive that it would make a really good rail-shooter, as for all-range with the wiimote... might be a little tricky. I do think the series needs a resurrection. Assault was okay, but no 64.
Also, Wolf's assault theme FTW!
Also, Wolf's assault theme FTW!
chansen
Smash Lord
SPOILER!
Wolf's foot and part of his crotch are in a gameinformer article. You can tell cuz he wears gay *** 3/4 shorts.
/won't visit this thread ever again
Wolf's foot and part of his crotch are in a gameinformer article. You can tell cuz he wears gay *** 3/4 shorts.
/won't visit this thread ever again
Patinator
Smash Champion
Um... Chansen scares me. I've lost my innocent mindset.... THANKS A LOT. T_T
Wu Tang Gang
Smash Ace
Go away, you're not funny. We all know Wolf's more badass than you.
raul
Smash Lord
Here is why Wolf is a perfect character for not only a star fox rep, but also for the game. Since Andross is an assist trophy, Wolf is really the only reoccuring rival/villain/antagonist left. Thus, he as a deeper relationship (don't go gay on me) with Fox than Leon, Pig Delmar, Andrew, etc. They are natural rivals as shown in Star Fox 64. This rivalry would be perfect for the SSE boss fight should one be in the works.
Metalknux
Smash Ace
Falco is either equal to or greater than Wolf. You're forgetting what Smash Bros. is. It's not supposed to be a perfect mix of villians, females, and heroes. It's supposed to be Nintendo's All-Stars/Mascots. And you keep on saying, "He's a clone and brings nothing new." Okay, he was a clone in Melee, but he's completely different from Fox. If you're going to put it that way, then Wolf brings nothing new either. Name one weapon that Wolf has and Fox doesn't. The only difference in technology is that Wolf has a Wolfen. You're making crap up. Wolf does not have any more moveset options than Falco. Wolf has never been seen using technology that Falco doesn't have access to. They have the same amount of moveset potential. What it comes down to is which character is more important to the franchise. Look at game manuals, box art, and even the game websites. What characters do you see? Fox, Falco, and Krystal. Apparently, even game developers think they're the most important Starfox characters.
I know you won't agree with me because of your Wolf fanboyism, so think about it with other characters.
Say somehow three Sonic characters were going to be in Brawl. Also, pretend Amy was more important to the franchise. Do you think they would put in Sonic, Knuckles, and Tails? You know, the most popular characters who are practically the face of the Sonic series? Or will they put in Sonic, Shadow, and Amy, so there will be some perfect balance crap?
I'll say it again. Smash Bros. is Nintendo's All-Stars, not Nintendo's perfect balance of heroes, villians, and females.
Just in case you didn't believe me about Fox, Falco, and Krystal being on the website, check for yourself. http://starfox.com/
You are mistaken and you've blown everything I've said out of proportion.
I don't even understand why you consider Falco a Nintendo All-Star, but not Wolf? They are equally just as important to the Starfox series -- I mean equally as unimportant. Neither can be considered an "All-Star" in the same sense that Fox is, nor in the same sense that Sonic, Knuckles, and Tails are to the Sonic series. I understand what you were trying to get at, but your comparison is a little off.
If you claim that Falco is a Nintendo All-Star, then Wolf is too by that criteria. Thus, they hold an equal position in the series. Falco is the main character's second in command; Wolf is his rival. I claim that they are EQUAL in the series, and I stand by that.
The difference is, Brawl needs more villains, not more supporting characters. So if you have two characters who are equally important to a series, and one that brings more variety to the game, which do you choose? In this sense, they are NOT on equal grounds. Clearly, in the situation the game is in, it's better to bring Wolf.
And in respect to your example, if Amy was equally as important to the Sonic series as Tails and Knuckles were, she would be a better choice to add as a character because she is a female, yes. However, she isn't, so there is no contest here.
But Wolf IS a contender, like it or not. You are misunderstood in thinking that him being a villain is his crutch to entry in this game. You are wrong, Wolf stands on his own two feet. It's just the one small detail that places him one step ahead of Falco -- and the reason I wrote my entire argument emphasizing that fact.
chaos_Leader
Smash Lord
we've been over this before, does anyone even bother to read some of the thread before posting anymore? I'd elaborate, but I'm using Wii browser right now, I'll get back to you. Do yourselves, all of you, a favor and read back a little, you may be surprized.
Patinator
Smash Champion
Chaos Leader has a point, I must admit.... But at least it's good for a higher post count. XD
LOL, he spelled surprise wrong. LOL, LOL, LOL... Jk, Chaos.
LOL, he spelled surprise wrong. LOL, LOL, LOL... Jk, Chaos.
Metalknux
Smash Ace
Interesting. I guess Wolf and Falco are equally important to the series, but being a villian doesn't really place him one step ahead. They're not trying to add the right amount of variety, they're trying to get sales. Falco is a more popular and well known character. As a matter of fact, if you think about it, Falco has been in every Starfox game. Wolf hasn't. *coughadventurescough*
I also remember Sakurai saying that he wanted to increase the females, but he said nothing about increasing the villians. In general, there are two main types of gamers, males and females. When creating this game, Sakurai is probably just thinking about appealing to those two categories. Yeah, he adds more variety, but the developers are not worried about appealing to felons. That's like me saying, "Random black dude confirmed" because I assume Sakurai wants to appeal to black people. Wolf is more of a rival than a villain, anyway. Andross and Pigma are the real villians.
raul
Smash Lord
*Sigh* This has transformed from debating in circles to circle...well you know.
Let's look at this way. We have three choices for 2 spots. Thats what all the arguments are based off. The Star Fox representation in Brawl will be Fox McCloud, ________, and ________. Fine, I'll give you three reps.
Our choices are:
Wolf O'Donnell
Falco Lombardi
Krystal Fuzzytits
Ok, now since the name of the thread is "only good choice for star fox villain" Wolf wins.
No, I'm kidding. Now for the serious argument. First off, I don't want to hear a ****ing thing about Sakurai's poll from here on out. Forget the pole. Its not law, its not fact, its not the commandments, its no a principle, its not an equation with x =, just forget it. It is not relevant for this debate.
Now, let us look at the arguments...
1.) Character X is a clone or Character X does not have a unique moveset.
--Ok, for starters, any character from any series can be made into a clone, so that argument is BS. You forget that Nintendo has an IMAGINATION and create moves that fit the characters. I've never seen Fox use his firefox move in any Star Fox game and guess what, he does it anyway. So why can't Wolf or Falco or Krystal have a unique moveset? Everytime someone posts ideas regarding weapons, it get shot down. Why? Because no one is willing to accept something that did not appear in a gaming series, yet nearly all of Fox's moves, out side of the that ****ing gun, never existed in his games. I mean, if you're ok with Fox having fire power, than Wolf can be the THING, Krystal can be the INVISIBLE WOMAN and Falco can be MR. Fantastic and bang we got the **** Star Fox 4.
Seriously, this argument originally started from the fact that Wolf looks a tad like Fox. Boy, that's funny, because in the real world foxes and wolves are no where near each other in terms of biology and genetic make up., no even the same genus. Note the sarcasm.
Wolf can be given a unique moveset but it is going to take an imagination. Whether it would be a sniper rifle, land mines, duel wielding, or gernades, Wolf would have a unique moveset because Nintendo has the imagination and the creativity to do so.
2.) All the moves would involve futuristic weapons and would not be original.
--Again, this argument is BS. No duh all the weapons would be futuristic because that games TAKE PLACE IN A FUTURISTIC UNIVERSE. The exception would be Krystal. She could use her Dinosaur Planet appearance to make herself a more magical, bow-staff wielding character. Personally, I would prefer that because bow-staffs are something we do not have in the game. But this argument is garbage because we cannot erase where the characters come from. Legend of Zelda characters have all medieval-esk weapons and no one gripes about that. They come from a medieval like time, so should they have AK 47's and golden guns? Most likely, two of the three characters will have their own futuristic weaponry to compete with.
3.) Falco outprioritizes everyone.
--Really? And where does it say that? Where does it say in anyway shape or form Falco outpriortizes anyone? FOX does, but not necessarily Falco. You could argue that Falco was in Melee and should be given an oppurtunity to be brought back, but I'd guess you'd have to argue that for Ness, Pichu, MewTwo, Marth, Roy, and Jiggly Puff before you incorporate any new characters from those series...oh wait. Ike is already in before Marth and Roy (not to say they won't return), Lucas before Ness, Pokemon Trainer before any of the pokem (not to say they won't return either). The point is, it is not clearly about who is always most important. Sakraui said himself he doesn't always pick the most popular characters. Falco is popular. He could return, but he does not have to, just like none of the others have to.
Falco does have a great chance to come back. He just has to be altered for Wii graphics, which shouldnt be difficult, but I would not guarantee is over everyone else. The fact that he actually WAS a clone may have bored Sakurai. Basically, we cannot judge who is more important. In terms of literary ideas and story line, Falco is a sidekick, Wolf is a rival and Krystal is a love interest. I would say Fox 1, Krystal/Wolf 2/3 or 3/2 and Falco 4. His role in the games is strange with the leaving and returning, while Wolf and Krystal are set in their roles. Every hero needs a villain and every hero seems to fall in love, so this seems to make sense to me, in terms of story line alone, that Wolf and Krystall are just as important as Falco. Also, if Smash Brothers is about mascots, Falco isn't really a mascot. A mascot, and I quote the dictionary (online version) is "a person or animal that is adopted by a team or other group as a symbolic figure ." So if we apply that to each gaming series, that really, we should only have the main character of each series. Falco is not a mascot, he is a sidekick. Fox is the mascot of The Star Fox Series. So Falco may actually be equal to Wolf and Krystal, not above them. Nintendo incorporates these other characters because what fun would the game be if they did not?
4.) Wolf is a Fox alternate costume.
--NO HE IS NOT.
Let's look at this way. We have three choices for 2 spots. Thats what all the arguments are based off. The Star Fox representation in Brawl will be Fox McCloud, ________, and ________. Fine, I'll give you three reps.
Our choices are:
Wolf O'Donnell
Falco Lombardi
Krystal Fuzzytits
Ok, now since the name of the thread is "only good choice for star fox villain" Wolf wins.
No, I'm kidding. Now for the serious argument. First off, I don't want to hear a ****ing thing about Sakurai's poll from here on out. Forget the pole. Its not law, its not fact, its not the commandments, its no a principle, its not an equation with x =, just forget it. It is not relevant for this debate.
Now, let us look at the arguments...
1.) Character X is a clone or Character X does not have a unique moveset.
--Ok, for starters, any character from any series can be made into a clone, so that argument is BS. You forget that Nintendo has an IMAGINATION and create moves that fit the characters. I've never seen Fox use his firefox move in any Star Fox game and guess what, he does it anyway. So why can't Wolf or Falco or Krystal have a unique moveset? Everytime someone posts ideas regarding weapons, it get shot down. Why? Because no one is willing to accept something that did not appear in a gaming series, yet nearly all of Fox's moves, out side of the that ****ing gun, never existed in his games. I mean, if you're ok with Fox having fire power, than Wolf can be the THING, Krystal can be the INVISIBLE WOMAN and Falco can be MR. Fantastic and bang we got the **** Star Fox 4.
Seriously, this argument originally started from the fact that Wolf looks a tad like Fox. Boy, that's funny, because in the real world foxes and wolves are no where near each other in terms of biology and genetic make up., no even the same genus. Note the sarcasm.
Wolf can be given a unique moveset but it is going to take an imagination. Whether it would be a sniper rifle, land mines, duel wielding, or gernades, Wolf would have a unique moveset because Nintendo has the imagination and the creativity to do so.
2.) All the moves would involve futuristic weapons and would not be original.
--Again, this argument is BS. No duh all the weapons would be futuristic because that games TAKE PLACE IN A FUTURISTIC UNIVERSE. The exception would be Krystal. She could use her Dinosaur Planet appearance to make herself a more magical, bow-staff wielding character. Personally, I would prefer that because bow-staffs are something we do not have in the game. But this argument is garbage because we cannot erase where the characters come from. Legend of Zelda characters have all medieval-esk weapons and no one gripes about that. They come from a medieval like time, so should they have AK 47's and golden guns? Most likely, two of the three characters will have their own futuristic weaponry to compete with.
3.) Falco outprioritizes everyone.
--Really? And where does it say that? Where does it say in anyway shape or form Falco outpriortizes anyone? FOX does, but not necessarily Falco. You could argue that Falco was in Melee and should be given an oppurtunity to be brought back, but I'd guess you'd have to argue that for Ness, Pichu, MewTwo, Marth, Roy, and Jiggly Puff before you incorporate any new characters from those series...oh wait. Ike is already in before Marth and Roy (not to say they won't return), Lucas before Ness, Pokemon Trainer before any of the pokem (not to say they won't return either). The point is, it is not clearly about who is always most important. Sakraui said himself he doesn't always pick the most popular characters. Falco is popular. He could return, but he does not have to, just like none of the others have to.
Falco does have a great chance to come back. He just has to be altered for Wii graphics, which shouldnt be difficult, but I would not guarantee is over everyone else. The fact that he actually WAS a clone may have bored Sakurai. Basically, we cannot judge who is more important. In terms of literary ideas and story line, Falco is a sidekick, Wolf is a rival and Krystal is a love interest. I would say Fox 1, Krystal/Wolf 2/3 or 3/2 and Falco 4. His role in the games is strange with the leaving and returning, while Wolf and Krystal are set in their roles. Every hero needs a villain and every hero seems to fall in love, so this seems to make sense to me, in terms of story line alone, that Wolf and Krystall are just as important as Falco. Also, if Smash Brothers is about mascots, Falco isn't really a mascot. A mascot, and I quote the dictionary (online version) is "a person or animal that is adopted by a team or other group as a symbolic figure ." So if we apply that to each gaming series, that really, we should only have the main character of each series. Falco is not a mascot, he is a sidekick. Fox is the mascot of The Star Fox Series. So Falco may actually be equal to Wolf and Krystal, not above them. Nintendo incorporates these other characters because what fun would the game be if they did not?
4.) Wolf is a Fox alternate costume.
--NO HE IS NOT.
raul
Smash Lord
ignore this. Posting error.
I don't think Falco and Wolf are the types are characters who will make or break the sales of this game. In fact, neither are female characters or diversity or anything of that sort. More people will purchase Brawl based on if their favorite franchise(s) are represented rather than the individual character. It just so happens with characters like Snake and Sonic are the representation of the series. Go figure...
Starfox is already represented, so people who like Starfox will buy the game. I like Starfox, so I am buying the game. However, between Falco and Wolf, that's not my point. Sales are one thing, yes, but keep in mind there must also be a balance of consumer satisfaction.
I'm talking entirely about post-game here. You bought the game, now are you satisfied with it? Clearly, this now depends on the variety of the final roster. The question now is, will this handful of characters be enough to maximize overall consumer satisfaction?
I realize you understand the whole male vs. female audience situation, but let me clarify. Let's say a girl bought this game, or you want to get your girlfriend or your sister to play it with you, or something. Girls tend not to be hardcore fanboys like us and most of the time they don't even know who the characters are, so they just pick the ones that look the cutest or the most feminine. Ok, now let's say the entire roster is chock-full of manly and beastly looking characters like Snake and Bowser. Um, chances are, she's not going to be willing enough to play the game if she can't find a character that she prefers to play or make a connection with. That's like trying to get your girlfriend to play Mortal Kombat with you -- not happening.
Ok, now take that situation, and let me make some adjustments. I bought this game, and I've been playing it for a couple of months and I've unlocked all the characters and such. However, despite the massive roster size, I can't even find ONE character out of them all who fits my personal preference or I can connect with. This situation I'm talking about is Melee. I start up the game, and I just hate all the characters and can't pick any that I like -- that's a huge turn off for me and doesn't give me the chance to enjoy the game to it's fullest potential. However, that's not because the roster isn't chock full of manly and beastly looking characters, but rather, it's FULL of main characters and supporting characters. Out of all 25, there are only 3 that meet the criteria of character which I desire to play -- Bowser, Mewtwo, and Ganondorf. Out of those 3 that Nintendo has given to me, all of them are slow and out-classed. This disparity is rediculous, and suggesting Falco as a character will only make it worse.
All I'm asking for is a villainous character who is faster than average, and who might that be? Wolf freaking O'Donnell. Is ONE character out of FORTY or however big the roster is too much to ask?
And your comment on felons or black people was really out of place. I don't know what you were trying to get at, but you clearly misunderstood me. Talking about heroes and villains is one thing, since these pertain to games themselves, but felons and black people are an entirely unrelated subject. Again, I think you've went a little too far in your comparisons.
Metalknux
Smash Ace
Meh, there's no point in attempting to debate any longer. What it comes down is, I like Falco more, you like Wolf more. Neither of us will change our views.
Good luck, maybe all four characters will get in Brawl.
raul
Smash Lord
But I like Falco. I just am sick of the arguments against Wolf that can be applied to Falco. There would be nothing wrong with Falco in Brawl. There would be nothing wrong with Wolf in Brawl.
Nice arguments raul. I'm glad to see someone else in here other than me making huge posts supporting Wolf. Humorous as well.
Truly I have nothing against Falco, I'm just trying to use logic here. As much as I would like for there to be 4 Starfox characters, I just doubt that will ever happen -- I know there will only be 3. I just have this horrible feeling that Wolf will be the one left behind, and nobody else but me realizes how wrong that is?
A lot of people just ASSUME Falco is in rather than looking at the entire situation objectively. Assumptions aren't the way to go. All of my thoughts are entirely based off of logic. It's not that I simply like Wolf and that's why I'm arguing for him, my debate goes much deeper than that.
Even if you just look at the state of Starfox at the present, you'll see why Falco needs to go. Back in 2001, it was logical to include Falco in Melee. But, he's no longer what he used to be anymore. Krystal has risen up to become nearly the female version of the main character -- even now she is arguably the second most important good-side character in Starfox. Where Falco used to be Fox's sidekick and the second most recognizable representative of the series, Krystal has triumphed over him.
What worse, WOLF has risen up as a character in recent games as well. There is no doubt about it that Wolf's role in the series has become more prominent than it once was, whereas Falco is still the same old character. See, Falco just continues to get knocked down further and further on the totem pole, and there hasn't been any indication that he will reclaim what he once had. Where Falco used to be second most important character in Starfox, he has simply become fourth or worse after the rise of Krystal and Wolf. Being Fox's best bud is no longer a good enough excuse to include him against what Krystal and Wolf have over him.
And don't act like Sakurai doesn't keep up with the times. Lucas vs. Ness anyone?
Metalknux
Smash Ace
What has Wolf done recently to make his role more prominent? Most of what's happening now is just Fox/Krystal relationship drama.Nice arguments raul. I'm glad to see someone else in here other than me making huge posts supporting Wolf. Humorous as well.
Truly I have nothing against Falco, I'm just trying to use logic here. As much as I would like for there to be 4 Starfox characters, I just doubt that will ever happen -- I know there will only be 3. I just have this horrible feeling that Wolf will be the one left behind, and nobody else but me realizes how wrong that is?
A lot of people just ASSUME Falco is in rather than looking at the entire situation objectively. Assumptions aren't the way to go. All of my thoughts are entirely based off of logic. It's not that I simply like Wolf and that's why I'm arguing for him, my debate goes much deeper than that.
Even if you just look at the state of Starfox at the present, you'll see why Falco needs to go. Back in 2001, it was logical to include Falco in Melee. But, he's no longer what he used to be anymore. Krystal has risen up to become nearly the female version of the main character -- even now she is arguably the second most important good-side character in Starfox. Where Falco used to be Fox's second in command and the second most recognizable representative of the series, Krystal has triumphed over him.
What worse, WOLF has risen up as a character in recent games as well. There is no doubt about it that Wolf's role in the series has become more prominent than it once was, whereas Falco is still the same old character. See, Falco just continues to get knocked down further and further on the totem pole, and there hasn't been any indication that he will reclaim what he once had. Where Falco used to be second most important character in Starfox, he has simply become fourth or worse after the rise of Krystal and Wolf. Being Fox's best bud is no longer a good enough excuse to include him against what Krystal and Wolf have over him.
And don't act like Sakurai doesn't keep up with the times. Lucas vs. Ness anyone?
You're right, though, Falco hasn't played any major roles or really done anything recently. All he really has to fall back on is his fanbase and Assault.
However, that brings me back to this. Fox, Krystal, and Falco (in order of importance from left to right) seem to be the icons/mascots of the Starfox series right now.
Uh....I figured you would know already, but I guess not.
In Assault, Wolf shows up yet again as he usually does and battles the Star Fox team with his new Star Wolf team. However, later in the game he unusually saves Fox's life from the Aparoids, but this was only so he could be the one to kill Fox later on. Meaning he's turned from a hired villain in SF64 to more of a rival of Fox, or maybe something more. In Command he shows up a few times to help out Fox, also stating that he feels a grudging respect towards Fox. So Wolf has become a more prominent figure in the Star Fox games, which is what I already stated earlier...
What has Falco done recently? Yeah you said it yourself: nothing. But he has left the Star Fox Team on occasion. Basically every wingman of the original Star Fox Team has become less prominent overall, how does that somehow still make Falco the third most important figure of the Star Fox series?
And no offense or anything, but if you think that picture means anything, you are an idiot. He's just there to tell the hardcore Star Fox fans "Look! This game is still Star Fox, even though it's been hijacked by Krystal!" It means NOTHING more than that, and yet again, you assume things without really looking into what's really there, and what's not there.
In Assault, Wolf shows up yet again as he usually does and battles the Star Fox team with his new Star Wolf team. However, later in the game he unusually saves Fox's life from the Aparoids, but this was only so he could be the one to kill Fox later on. Meaning he's turned from a hired villain in SF64 to more of a rival of Fox, or maybe something more. In Command he shows up a few times to help out Fox, also stating that he feels a grudging respect towards Fox. So Wolf has become a more prominent figure in the Star Fox games, which is what I already stated earlier...
What has Falco done recently? Yeah you said it yourself: nothing. But he has left the Star Fox Team on occasion. Basically every wingman of the original Star Fox Team has become less prominent overall, how does that somehow still make Falco the third most important figure of the Star Fox series?
And no offense or anything, but if you think that picture means anything, you are an idiot. He's just there to tell the hardcore Star Fox fans "Look! This game is still Star Fox, even though it's been hijacked by Krystal!" It means NOTHING more than that, and yet again, you assume things without really looking into what's really there, and what's not there.
Metalknux
Smash Ace
I beat Assault, and I personally don't think telling Fox he respects him and shooting some robotic insects makes his role more prominent. Wolf is just starting to seem like more of a good guy now, which really doesn't help your variety argument.
How is Falco still the third most important figure of the Starfox series?
I got nothin'. And I really don't feel like going back and looking up storylines from past games and trying to find more background information on Falco.
raul
Smash Lord
Wolf is a rival much like MetaKnight is to Kirby. Let's look at some facts here. We are missing a major part of this and that is the literary concepts. What I mean, all video games have a story line. Star Fox has a series of stories that shows us the relationships between characters such as Fox, Wolf, Falco and Krystal. The relationship between Fox and Falco at the beginning of the story and the games, was very strong, hence his debut in Melee. However, over time, that relationship has petered out slowly. This could be to poor planning on the writers and concepts mappers of the game, but that is the way it is.
Is anyone really that surprised that Fox falls in love with Krystal? All heroes in nearly every story written in history fall in love. It's nothing unusual. Thus, a relationship between Fox and Krystal has grown and strengthened.
Wolf and Fox are rivals. In Assault we see a deeper connection between Fox and Wolf when Wolf aids Fox for the first time ever. What does this mean? It means that the relationship between Wolf and Fox is evolving. If I am not mistakened with the story line of Star Fox Assault, Wolf helps Fox because he knows that Fox is the only person that can defeat the bad guys, and Wolf knows that he couldn't defeat them alone, hence, he joins Fox to beat them. See his moves are self interested like many villains in any story line. Wolf, to ensure his own survival against a new threat, helps Star Fox only to keep his onw tail from the grave. Along the way, he admits a little respect towards his rival, nothing too deep there.
I dont see Wolf acting in a good guy manner at all. If we base the inclusion of characters off relationships alone, Fox Krystal and WOLF will all be there and Falco will sit this one out. While Falco's relationship is shaky with Fox and this point, Wolf's relationship with Fox is evolving and growing deeper.
If we wish to take this to a gaming perspective only, Wolf still has just as much chance as Falco. Now, I hate patterns and theories, but if we look at the changes from Melee to Brawl in terms of characters, what do we see? Obviously we see an increase in rivals and bad guys and antagonists with Bowser, MetaKnight, King Dedede, and Wario. Since we have no evidence at this point of clones or characters that were clones returning, we can say that Falco's chances have lowered and Wolf's chances have increased making them equal--50/50.
In my opinion the only person that will make it in for sure, outside of Fox haha, is Krystal because she has the advantage of being in Dinosaur Planet and can have the bow-staff and magic qualities to maker her very unique not only from the the Star Fox reps, but also the rest of the female characters in Brawl. This leaves a battle between Wolf and Falco, each having a 50-50 chance.
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