I was talking specifically about using the bayonet to pseudo-spike people.
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Wofl Q&A/Social
- Thread starter Ishiey
- Start date
Rizen
Smash Legend
Blaster's good but Bair/Dair or Fair/Uair are better to hit out/spike or up when intercepting, respectively.
Depends on the situation. A neat part of the Neutral-B is that it covers a lot more space, meaning that opponents who try to pull back to avoid the bayonet often still get hit by the laser. It can put them in compromising positions that might not be easy to manage with just Wolf's aerials.
Seagull Joe
Smash Legend
Rizen
Smash Legend
With blaster offstage if you miss, Wolf might be put in danger. And it's slow; Wolf can probably Bair 3 or 4 times instead of 1 blaster shot.
I agree with Blaster's potential but wouldn't use it to close range intercept offstage for those reasons.
I agree with Blaster's potential but wouldn't use it to close range intercept offstage for those reasons.
tekkie
Smash Master
wofl laughs in the face of danger!
and this
and this
Rizen
Smash Legend
Fat Diddy.
WTF is with this inactivity?! I'm surrounded by NO NEW POSTS! C'mon...
WTF is with this inactivity?! I'm surrounded by NO NEW POSTS! C'mon...
M.C. Pee-Pants
Smash Journeyman
So today I went to a tourney lost to kismet 2-0 beat player 1 2-0 I really need to work on the falco mu Im ok at it I just need more work on it vids will be up soon
Kuro~
Nitoryu Kuro
kismet vs pp? So much hype. Yo man, you coming to qualifier in florida?
Wolf McBlue
Smash Journeyman
Post some of the vids from last tournament I went to AUSOM VI. There is a good match of me vs a snake but waiting on I think reflex to upload them.
tekkie
Smash Master
hawt; any replays?
Wolf McBlue
Smash Journeyman
yea, ASL should have it record it and upload it within a few days. ASL has a policy now that we try to record 100% of the replays
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=327797 project to save all replays check it out.
M.C. Pee-Pants
Smash Journeyman
Ill try and see if I can make it
kismet2
Smash Ace
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwBruzLVJ9k my set vs chris from this past weekend. also chris make sure you come to battle n brew if you can so we can play more.
@ MCP, about Falco stuff:
On SV, when you're platform camping, dsmash if you think they're going to try platform cancelling. When the platform is moving towards a side, try to stay away from the side it is moving towards (ex. if it's moving right, stay on the left of the platform). Just in case Falco grabs you, you won't get CG'd.
Reflect his laser and then jump out of shine. It irritates Falco players a lot, sometimes they'll stop lasering for a bit lol. But yeah, be patient and don't run into lasers, you had the lead game 1 and blew it by trying to approach. Pissing off your opponent > approaching.
When you dthrow someone and see that they're starting to tech it, keep in mind what your options are to cover techs and don't throw out something with a lot of cooldown unless it is guaranteed. Jab is guaranteed on neutral tech, fsmash on tech behind (dsmash/dashgrab maaaaaybe?), and I think Falco is safe if he techs away but idk.
When you're at kill %s, Falcos like to tunnel for the usmash. You can punish it with fsmash provided you're in range and shield the attack. It helps a bunch to just get some extra stage control going vs Falco imo, so you want to hit him offstage whenever such an opportunity arises. Be on the lookout to punish greedy kill attempts.
Just a few small tips in case they help. You seemed to be doing really well though, aside from losing patience.
On SV, when you're platform camping, dsmash if you think they're going to try platform cancelling. When the platform is moving towards a side, try to stay away from the side it is moving towards (ex. if it's moving right, stay on the left of the platform). Just in case Falco grabs you, you won't get CG'd.
Reflect his laser and then jump out of shine. It irritates Falco players a lot, sometimes they'll stop lasering for a bit lol. But yeah, be patient and don't run into lasers, you had the lead game 1 and blew it by trying to approach. Pissing off your opponent > approaching.
When you dthrow someone and see that they're starting to tech it, keep in mind what your options are to cover techs and don't throw out something with a lot of cooldown unless it is guaranteed. Jab is guaranteed on neutral tech, fsmash on tech behind (dsmash/dashgrab maaaaaybe?), and I think Falco is safe if he techs away but idk.
When you're at kill %s, Falcos like to tunnel for the usmash. You can punish it with fsmash provided you're in range and shield the attack. It helps a bunch to just get some extra stage control going vs Falco imo, so you want to hit him offstage whenever such an opportunity arises. Be on the lookout to punish greedy kill attempts.
Just a few small tips in case they help. You seemed to be doing really well though, aside from losing patience.
Zync
Smash Journeyman
Just came back from a tourney, got 2nd from like 25 people, used mainly wolf/MK/ZSS/marth, I had to beat several top players and made ryan go to GF2 after I was coming back. After using so many characters on a tourney I can tell..... wolf is still my best character and MK is a cheap *****. Happy about results though :D
MK is silly. I was playing with False yesterday, we were going even and then he switched to MK and 3-stocked me.
That MU is definitely worse than Wario for us.
That MU is definitely worse than Wario for us.
Rizen
Smash Legend
Ish, your anger is out of control! I agree MK's a CP breaking, ****ing, **** filled, phlegm [censored] [censored] ****er, but ^that kind of statement goes too far. Calm down, it's just a game man.
/JK, Ish is the most level headed Wolf player, lol.
kismet2
Smash Ace
wolf does good vs mk lol short hop fairs and lasers make it really hard for him to get in.
Seagull Joe
Smash Legend
Probably if we discount the cg. Otherwise no.MK is silly. I was playing with False yesterday, we were going even and then he switched to MK and 3-stocked me.
That MU is definitely worse than Wario for us.
Rizen
Smash Legend
I think Ish was joking about MK being worse than fat boy.
I don't think he was. Either way, Wolf-MK is a frustrating matchup, and I can understand the argument for that being harder than Wario and the argument against that statement.
What Reflex said. I think they are of comparable difficulty, and I'm a lot better at the Wario MU than the MK MU so there's some bias from that too. Imo at top level MK is worse. Wario is a lot easier to keep at a safe zone and stuff out. And a lot less problematic when we're offstage/on the ledge. Idk man, idk.
SH fair = have fun eating a SL OoS :/ laser has a very small safe zone against MK. It is not a fun MU against knowledgeable opponents that will do what they need to do for a win imo, to a much greater extent than the Wario MU.
SH fair = have fun eating a SL OoS :/ laser has a very small safe zone against MK. It is not a fun MU against knowledgeable opponents that will do what they need to do for a win imo, to a much greater extent than the Wario MU.
Gheb, you live in Europe, where MKs lose to Peach. Come on now.
But really, please do elaborate on why MK isn't bad for Wolf.
But really, please do elaborate on why MK isn't bad for Wolf.
I gave some reasoning two posts ago lol. Things that MK can do to Wolf better than Wario. Add in that MK is safer too, and has disjoints that prevent shine from beating out the majority of his moveset. Wario's only advantages are weight, mobility (his main means of getting through our walling), and a CG that he has no real setups for.
Your turn to contribute something worthwhile to this discussion.
Your turn to contribute something worthwhile to this discussion.
tekkie
Smash Master
i tell you people that that **** is wackMK is silly. I was playing with False yesterday, we were going even and then he switched to MK and 3-stocked me.
That MU is definitely worse than Wario for us.
that said, i dunno about worse than wario
I just did say why it's a worse MU than Wario. It's bad because MK can stay safe and makes it harder for us to stay safe, since he can get in easier and we don't have an optimal range we can keep him in. And then some other stuff I'm too lazy to cover when mobile.
I'm starting to see why people don't like debating with you lol. How do you think tournament results vs MK compare to those vs Wario?
I'm starting to see why people don't like debating with you lol. How do you think tournament results vs MK compare to those vs Wario?
I haven't even started debating anything yet. I'd just like you to make your points perfectly clear because I'm a stupid person - you don't have to do so right now if it's inconvenient for you.
I can already tell that we'll have quite a lot of disagreements.
Rizen
Smash Legend
I'm not entering the debate. Just want to say MK can be a very difficult MU for any character, even the ones with decent MUs. And CGs outright suck :/
Seagull Joe
Smash Legend
I've played the matchup at every level of play for and played high level . In no way does EVER scare by comparison. I never die till around 150-180% on average vs the bat. All his moves are punishable in some manner. He is slow in the air and shouldn't gimp unless you put yourself into bad positions. I'd consider me, Kain, and Semifer the epitome of fighting and knowing that matchup. Semifer quit because of who we can't kill lol. Kain has taken M2k to game 5, consistently beat Lain, Sago, Dla when he goes , and he's done very good vs the person probably best at the matchup (Ally). I've beaten Neo, Domo, barely lose to M2k, and go even with Omni who I really want to play in tournament cause he's the last good player in mdva I have not beaten in a set this year. When he name searches I hope he knows I'm winning next time . Semifer beats 0rion like everytime looool. I don't know other s he's played in Europe as I'm not apart of that scene.
not only has a cg, but the scare factor of fart, combo abilities/pressure more-so then , he is heavy as ****, and he not only matches our speed, but beats it...if he can do the cg then it's GG. Not 
difficulty, but 
level -2. We can camp and combo back pretty easily, but his tools are far scarier then s. I always look forward to fighting bats. Reflex is biased due to his hatred towards
My sets have been from slikvik, blue rogue, hunger, iota, and malCUM.
and played high level . In no way does EVER scare by comparison. I never die till around 150-180% on average vs the bat. All his moves are punishable in some manner. He is slow in the air and shouldn't gimp unless you put yourself into bad positions. I'd consider me, Kain, and Semifer the epitome of fighting and knowing that matchup. Semifer quit because of who we can't kill lol. Kain has taken M2k to game 5, consistently beat Lain, Sago, Dla when he goes , and he's done very good vs the person probably best at the matchup (Ally). I've beaten Neo, Domo, barely lose to M2k, and go even with Omni who I really want to play in tournament cause he's the last good player in mdva I have not beaten in a set this year. When he name searches I hope he knows I'm winning next time . Semifer beats 0rion like everytime looool. I don't know other s he's played in Europe as I'm not apart of that scene. not only has a cg, but the scare factor of fart, combo abilities/pressure more-so then , he is heavy as ****, and he not only matches our speed, but beats it...if he can do the cg then it's GG. Not difficulty, but level -2. We can camp and combo back pretty easily, but his tools are far scarier then s. I always look forward to fighting bats. Reflex is biased due to his hatred towards My
sets have been from slikvik, blue rogue, hunger, iota, and malCUM.
Jeez, it looks like any statement I make related to Meta Knight obviously comes from a bias. I'm not even sure what saying that one character may or may not be as bad against him as another character has to do with bias at all. Unsubscribing.
Look what you guys have done
Really though. Reflex didn't even pick a side on which MU was harder. I don't get it.
Gheb, I'll lay out my thoughts in a post when I'm back at my laptop.
Really though. Reflex didn't even pick a side on which MU was harder. I don't get it.
Gheb, I'll lay out my thoughts in a post when I'm back at my laptop.
M.C. Pee-Pants
Smash Journeyman
In my opinion wario is worse than mk even tho mk does have better options to beat wolf than wario besides the cg which wario can start the cg at 40% after that percent wario can pretty much cg wolf so that means wolf only has 40% to do pretty much whatever he wants until one mistake then the cg.
Well considering how much worse the match-up against Wario becomes via the CG it's kind of clear that MK would be harder if Wario didn't have the CG. But Wario does have it and it *****. MK on the other hand still remains a manageable threat.
Rizen
Smash Legend
I would be interested to hear how people think stages affect the MUs and ratios while we're at it.
I'm not entering the debate, only saying imo Wolf vs: Wario solid -2 when including CG, MK -1 (or -2 on bad stages).
PS this proves ROB and I don't have to be involved for these to happen, lol.
I'm not entering the debate, only saying imo Wolf vs: Wario solid -2 when including CG, MK -1 (or -2 on bad stages).
PS this proves ROB and I don't have to be involved for these to happen, lol.
_Kain_
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Apr 30, 2009
- Messages
- 2,154
MK is alot more frustrating then Wario that's for sure. I understand what Ish means because we talked about this.
Even though MK is doable, he is alot more versatile then Wario (Wario has a CG, it's a simple MU that you have to play safe or you get grabbed, and if the Wario can't do the CG it's a regular match that comes down to spacing and watching out for a fart) MK has a move that can stuff most of wolf's moves if he reacts right, even when spaced (due to invinc frames from shuttle loop). Then he's also very good at harassing offstage (if the MK has any clue about the MU, which most don't til this day). What I'm saying is Wolf's primary strats which are to space and stay safe don't work really well against MK's who know how to deal with bair and fair, it dwindles down to a neutral game where basically MK just has more options then Wolf, and Wolf's overall risk reward from the options he has at neutral compared to MK's options at neutral is just way worse lol.
Still -1, but damn playing at neutral with a MK is annoying, and trying to land a grab over him is even more annoying with his gay forward roll and spotdodge
Even though MK is doable, he is alot more versatile then Wario (Wario has a CG, it's a simple MU that you have to play safe or you get grabbed, and if the Wario can't do the CG it's a regular match that comes down to spacing and watching out for a fart) MK has a move that can stuff most of wolf's moves if he reacts right, even when spaced (due to invinc frames from shuttle loop). Then he's also very good at harassing offstage (if the MK has any clue about the MU, which most don't til this day). What I'm saying is Wolf's primary strats which are to space and stay safe don't work really well against MK's who know how to deal with bair and fair, it dwindles down to a neutral game where basically MK just has more options then Wolf, and Wolf's overall risk reward from the options he has at neutral compared to MK's options at neutral is just way worse lol.
Still -1, but damn playing at neutral with a MK is annoying, and trying to land a grab over him is even more annoying with his gay forward roll and spotdodge