Wisdom's Weapons - Zelda Moveset Analysis/Discussion [Currently casually discussing~]

[Rizen]

Bthrow has the same thing going on as Fthrow: it's not a bad throw but doesn't combo and therefor is overshadowed by D/Uthrow. Bthrow can be good at the ledge to get the opponent offstage.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

I like that Bthrow can KO, sure its no Ness but its nice to know that high percent bthrow can KO somewhat reasonably. If Zelda's pivot grab was better this might have been a better throw but since its not its only ok. 3/5

 

[Zylach]

I actually like bthrow especially when getting up from the ledge, I can sometimes surprise the opponent by grabbing them immediately if they think I'm gonna getup attack or ledge hop thereby making them sit in shield. Because Zelda tends to have a difficult time landing her kill moves on opponents, especially highly mobile ones, opponents can get up to 120% if they play smart which means I can sometimes kill them with a bthrow which is significantly less stressful than trying to land an usmash or elevator on an opponent that's properly spacing and highly mobile. Obviously, Zelda doesn't want the opponent to get up to these kinds of percents since she can kill so much earlier but it's a reliable tool in bad situations.

3/5

 

[Suicidal_Donuts]

Bthrow could use some help, but it's better than Fthrow. It's got decent base knockback, but won't even kill until 140% and later at the ledge (perhaps in rage). You can totally kill lighter characters with it (if you haven't already), but don't rely on it with the heavies. Like Fthrow, it'll probably send the opponent offstage (but farther) serving as its main purpose. It's got decent damage, and is a lot better than (and on par with) some of the other throws in the game. I'll say 3/5.

 

[Macchiato]

Actually It'll kill earlier than you'll think. 110-130%. If you know that your opponent is doing a raw get-up, just run through them and Bthrow, they won't expect it and won't DI in time.

 

[BJN39]

It takes 30 frames to execute Bthrow. That's more time to react than getting hit by all the hits of Fsmash. Anyone who misses that DI has made a very incompetent mistake, and numbers of non-correct DI should never be considered for a throw that slow to throw.

 

[Rickster]

Horizontal vectoring also hurts this move quite a bit.

 

[S.F.L.R_9]

Ok time for up throw

 

[Zylach]

Combos at very low percents but not on all characters. Doesn't kill, doesn't combo at mid-high percents, does 11% just like bthrow and fthrow does more so... I'm actually not a fan personally.

2/5

 

[JigglyZelda003]

the only thing i do with Uthrow now is i stole auntie @Rion tactic of Uthrow>follow opponent>Uthrow again. you'd be surprised how many people(myself) included actually fall for this when they land lol. especially if people are approaching higher percents.

Uthrow>Faroes sometimes works if people don't expect it. it is a nice way to put people above Zelda to attempt an air juggle or Uair/Usmash/Uthrow bait. the low percent combos are also a nice thing cause it gives variance off the norm. i've started to love Uthrow.

3/5

 

[S.F.L.R_9]

I love uthrow. At low percents on fast fallers it has combos that do more damage than dthrow combos, at mid percents it can combo into uair, and near really low ceilings (like On Halberd or Town & City's platforms) you can get kills from uthrow uair at ~50%. 3/5

 

[BJN39]

Uthrow has identical frame data to Fthrow. Just a little random thing.

Considering it can actually get a follow on fatties and FFers at low low percent, it does incredible damage like wow 11% AND a followup.

I never thought of that Uthrow > wait > Uthrow, that's actually neat @ JigglyZelda003

Based Auntie @Rion. Eaux how you just found such nice things. ily.

Uthrow has nice niche properties tbh, does good damage, low % combos, AND it actually KOs about as well as Bthrow if both are correctly vectored from center stage. That said Uthrow is nowhere near a kill throw, lol.

CAN YOU IMAGINE IF IT WAS LOL.

Anyways, I'd rate it a 3.25/5. Does nice things and is a good Uthrow imo.

 

[Macchiato]

a good damaging combo throw

also something really unknown is that uthrow to usmash true combos... only on fox at 0%

a free 27% on fox woop

3.5/5

 

[evmaxy54]

a good damaging combo throw

also something really unknown is that uthrow to usmash true combos... only on fox at 0%

a free 27% on fox woop

3.5/5

Uthrow to Usmash works on four characters (Fox 0-20%, Sheik 1-7%, Falcon 11-12% & Greninja 6-17% IIRC with no Rage) & Uthrow to Utilt works on those 4 characters plus Falco & Roy (can't remember the percents tho). Uthrow to Uair works on some of the cast (will post %s on known characters when I get home). I remember it not working on Rosalina, R.O.B. & Jiggz though

 

[Rickster]

I like Uthrow at really low % since it can get them to a good "combo range" faster than Dthrow (what I mean is that Nair won't send them into tumble after Dthrow, but it can with Uthrow, which makes landing a kick after much easier). It's also nice at mid % for a little mixup with Uthrow>Uair. It's good for positioning too, especially since we have a deadly Usmash again.

Too bad we can't chaingrab with it!
3/5

 

[AncientCode42]

Zelda's Laggy Kicks are awful moves. Laggy, laggy and high sour-spot is all that needs to be said. Sure the sweet-spot damage is great, but that's only if you can manage to even get them to connect since you get more sour-spots than sweet-spots. It doesn't work for spacing either due to the high lag. Honestly her Laggy Kicks should revert back to Melee form, make them faster and less punishable. At least in Melee they were usable seeing as how they were her only option to do anything. They also would be more usable if the high lag wasn't there on top of the sour-spot over sweet-spot.

Either give them more priority or reduce the sour-spot dominance over sweet-spot. The only good things are that the sweet-spot is slightly easier to land.

LK need to be able to work like Melee and can string them them into each other while spacing. Awful 1.5/5

 

[Meek Moths]

i managed uthrow to uair few times but i think the opponents were just bad

 

[evmaxy54]

i managed uthrow to uair few times but i think the opponents were just bad

It's guaranteed on some characters but you have to buffer both the jump & Uair for it to work.

---

Recorded %s

Uthrow -> Usmash (27% combo)

Sheik: 1-7%
Fox: 0-20% (15-20% does 24% instead)
Falcon: 11-12%
Greninja: 6-17%

Uthrow -> Utilt (18%)

Sheik: 1-21%
Fox: 0-20%
Falcon: 11-24%
Greninja: 6-23%
Falco: 5-18%
Roy: 6-21%

Uthrow -> Uair (26%) - Incomplete

Sheik: 50-66%
Fox: 46-67%
Falcon: 63-86%, 83-89% (the top %s for both ranges require DI, true combo at 87% can kill on FD with no DI after Uair)*
Greninja: 55-57%
Falco: 51-63%
D3: 78-93% (higher %s require DI)*
LM: 51-77%, 77-80% requires DJ*
Ganon: 70-73%, 74-76 requires DI & DJ (very difficult to do though so it may not be worth it)*
Mewtwo: 39-53%, 54-61% requires DJ*
ZSS: 50-66%
Shulk: 62-71%*
MK: 46-59%, 60-67% requires DJ (higher %s require DI)*
Zelda: 47-50%*

Jiggly: N/A
Rosalina: N/A
R.O.B.: N/A

All provided no rage of course lol

 

[Meek Moths]

It's guaranteed on some characters but you have to buffer both the jump & Uair for it to work.

yeah, i always buffer but i think that in smash 4, you can only buffer one action at time sometimes, i heard some commentator say this during a stream. i think he said you cant buffer jump + attack, but im not sure if he meant midair jump or regular jump

 

[Dee-SmashinBoss]

Bthrow is very similar to Fthrow, decent knockback and good for getting opponents offstage, it deals slightly less damage, but slightly more knockback, though it could still use more, but its not the worst Kill-throw and at least it is one.
I give it a 4/5 just like Fthrow.

Uthrow, I rarely use this, I mean Uthrow to Usmash is possible on FFs, but thats about it for what you can get from it, it does have lackluster combo ability overall and doesnt KO, but does a decent 11% and(dont know if this is true, but I will test it) it may kill earlier then Bthrow on the top of FD platforms right? I mean its knockback is decent still and I would imagine that being the case.
Meh...2.5/5

 

[evmaxy54]

yeah, i always buffer but i think that in smash 4, you can only buffer one action at time sometimes, i heard some commentator say this during a stream. i think he said you cant buffer jump + attack, but im not sure if he meant midair jump or regular jump

If that is case then you would only have a 6 frame window to buffer the Uair (since Zelda's jumpsquat is 6 frames :/). You just have to count your frames really in a sense

 

[Zylach]

Bthrow is very similar to Fthrow, decent knockback and good for getting opponents offstage, it deals slightly less damage, but slightly more knockback, though it could still use more, but its not the worst Kill-throw and at least it is one.
I give it a 4/5 just like Fthrow.

Uthrow, I rarely use this, I mean Uthrow to Usmash is possible on FFs, but thats about it for what you can get from it, it does have lackluster combo ability overall and doesnt KO, but does a decent 11% and(dont know if this is true, but I will test it) it may kill earlier then Bthrow on the top of FD platforms right? I mean its knockback is decent still and I would imagine that being the case.
Meh...2.5/5

FD platforms? Do you mean BF platforms? If so, I believe it does kill earlier than bthrow though I personally prefer dthrow>uair on most characters.

 

[Dee-SmashinBoss]

FD platforms? Do you mean BF platforms? If so, I believe it does kill earlier than bthrow though I personally prefer dthrow>uair on most characters.

Yea that's what I meant xD, then again yea Dthrow to Uair is also good......yea even better your right

 

[Suicidal_Donuts]

Uthrow is good for... Uhh... Not much. The only time I use this is in kill percentages to predict DI and follow up with Uair or a Farore's reappearance. It's best to use underneath platforms for obvious reasons. It does decent damage, and won't really KO by itself. I'll be honest, I haven't really experimented with this throw much at all, but only because all her other throws are (in my opinion) better. It does have some easy low percent follow ups, but it's still not like it'll help you that much. I'll rate 2/5. Not horrible, but not that great by any means, you're better off using a different throw in most situations.

 

[Hennet]

I find Up throw is the second best of her throw's at some percents at least when online can combo into Up B as I did here http://imgur.com/gallery/roKlpSD Could just be a tactic for online games

 

[Zylach]

I find Up throw is the second best of her throw's at some percents at least when online can combo into Up B as I did here http://imgur.com/gallery/roKlpSD Could just be a tactic for online games

It only works online. There's not enough hitstun for it to perfect combo into FW. It's just online being laggy and the players being bad. This has never worked against tournament caliber players and will get you super punished.

 

[Rickster]

At least it can combo into Windfail (Windfall)...but why would you be using that horrible custom anyway?

 

[JigglyZelda003]

At least it can combo into Windfail (Windfall)...but why would you be using that horrible custom anyway?

Windfall spikes people at 90% by the ledge though

 

[Rickster]

Windfall spikes people at 90% by the ledge though

But you can only go up and it doesn't ledgesnap

 

[Zylach]

Windfall's recovery properties are awful. It doesn't snap to the ledge but it still follows walls meaning, if you're a few pixels past the ledge and follow the slope up to the ledge, you'll overshoot and die. You have to use Windfall as if you were playing melee spacing it perfectly to snap to the ledge or you're getting hit and won't be able to recover because it's got the worst recovery distance of any of our customs. Meanwhile, I think it only does 7% and getting a kill when you're only near a ledge is wholly situational. Don't defend this custom. It's the worst custom in the game lol.

 

[MOI-ARI]

Windfall is awesome. My opinion is also awesome ^_^

 

[S.F.L.R_9]

At least you can't DI it pointblank and it's one of the only spikes in the game to hit above you...
I forgot to update this thread but I'll do it tomorrow ok

 

[JigglyZelda003]

But you can only go up and it doesn't ledgesnap

Gurl nobody was talking about Sheik

Windfall's recovery properties are awful. It doesn't snap to the ledge but it still follows walls meaning, if you're a few pixels past the ledge and follow the slope up to the ledge, you'll overshoot and die. You have to use Windfall as if you were playing melee spacing it perfectly to snap to the ledge or you're getting hit and won't be able to recover because it's got the worst recovery distance of any of our customs. Meanwhile, I think it only does 7% and getting a kill when you're only near a ledge is wholly situational. Don't defend this custom. It's the worst custom in the game lol.

not exactly. Windfall is HIGHLY situational and will sometimes kill you for no reason but there are worst customs (grumpy toad). Windfall still spikes and Zelda can move right after so she's kind of turned into Marth with a spiking reappear. messing with it though if your on a stage with completely flat walls then you don't have to worry about recovery so much and its so lolzy to spike people with it. i'm not endorsing this custom just supporting it since i did spend an hour trying to see if it had any niche use lol

 

[NekoJubei]

I really like Up Throw on fast fallers
It puts you in the perfect position to read an airdodge and punish with a Bair,Semi-Charge Up Smash,Up Air and so on
And well of course it true combos to Up Air on mid-high percents but the timing is very strict.
However this is all mindgames as most follow ups are not guaranteed.
Overall, Up Throw is a decent throw for Zelda, is not the worst throw but is not the best throw.

 

[S.F.L.R_9]

Now let's talk about Zelda stepping on people

Dthrow is definitely her best throw. You can combo off of it with nair, possibly kill off of it with uair, and if they airdodge after it, punish hard with a sweetspot LK or falling nair > whatever. 3.75/5

 

[evmaxy54]

Dthrow is good...

Until people know how to DI correctly...

Then it becomes Tr4sh

---

Possible ****

- Nair
- Uair (HOO HAH)
- Dair (requires you to bait the air dodge)
- LK (again bait the airdodge)

 

[S.F.L.R_9]

I don't think DI messes with it that badly. All you have to do is guess where they're going to be. The only one that it really affects is uair if they DI left/right. Even if they don't get hit they're still in the air which is bad

 

[evmaxy54]

I don't think DI messes with it that badly. All you have to do is guess where they're going to be. The only one that it really affects is uair if they DI left/right. Even if they don't get hit they're still in the air which is bad

But Zelda is too slow nor does she has the tools to really catch the opponent in the air. At best it gives Zelda more control of the stage but Fthrow & Bthrow do that as well with both doing about double the damage

 

[JigglyZelda003]

I'm only giving dthrow a 3/5 cause as long as people always hold away her combo options are limited to Nair until a certain percent and reading their action for follow ups. At like 60% most characters holding away can act before Zelda can get there and all she can do is try to read an action for a following action.

early combo /KO potential is nice, but that's about it. Oh and taking Macs KO punch away lol

 

[Zylach]

Dthrow is obviously our best throw but it's no Diddy throw. Since it's a combo throw, it's damage is tiny unless we follow it up and we can't always follow it up because, like others have noted, proper DI can nullify any chance at followups. Furthermore, our most reliable followup, nair, doesn't get as much damage output since the most recent patch since turning around can often take just long enough for the opponent to get away. I do love dthrow>uair kills though. It's guaranteed on certain characters at certain percents I suspect but I've not tested this. Most people figure out that they ought to jump out of dthrow to avoid getting punished for airdodging now so baiting airdodges doesn't happen anymore and it makes me sad.

3/5