wingdash push>dtilt spike

[IDK]

i don't feel like explaining this REALLY well, but here it is. sorry if known, i didnt find it anywhere. you know how the WoI pushes people? well just wingdash push someone right near the edge of the stage and end it with a dtilt. you're basically pushing them into a spike. the timing is sort of hard though...

 

[kown]

no one has really said this but it is sorta known. oh well thnxs for pointing it out.

 

[FzeroX]

I have thought about it, never seen it pulled off though. I always assumed they would grab the edge too fast, I'll go test it for a while.

 

[ndubya]

i gotta practice this now.

 

[NxC]

Tried for a very long time, but was never able to pull off before they grab the edge.

 

[IDK]

as i said the timing is tough. be sure to push them far enough so that they don't get the edge. happened for me when they were right next to the edge. them being a little off the ground helps too.

 

[3Years]

this sounds like its really hard 2 pull off...ill try it out and post later

 

[Rogue Pit]

Somethign a bit more useful, lately with every char i play, and i play like every char, i've been working on jab canceling with different moves. for example with pit i would use his first 2 jabs, the second one draws them closer, I would usually grab afterwards since people always shield. Been i've almost used it against kupo, but used 2 jabs while the person is in the air, when ending it into a dtilt, they should be at about the position of a spike by the time th tilt comes in.

 

[IDK]

i messed around with it for like 2 hours when i first thought that it could be possible and couldnt get it... but i have done it 3 times today other than that. so yes, it is tough. but i'm getting it more constantly now. i'm sure that with practice i could get it. btw i've only played pit for a day lol.

 

[Sharkz]

D-tilt spike is hard enough as it is. In fact I've never pulled it off in a serious match (If anyone had any tips for it I'd appreciate it), so this can't be easy.

 

[DiosDePyro]

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[Sharkz]

Sharkz, the spike is fairly easy against a Snake on his cypher. Since he can't grab the ledge while on it, he'll rise right past and set himself up for an easy spike. I've pulled it off at least 8 times on my friend's snake.

Correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't a grab release be better in that situation?

 

[DiosDePyro]

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[Beo]

How do you make WoI not jump? I use it sometimes to jump for B Airs and whatnot.

So how would you be able to get back to the ground fast enough to D TIlt?

 

[arm]

D-tilt spike is hard enough as it is. In fact I've never pulled it off in a serious match (If anyone had any tips for it I'd appreciate it), so this can't be easy.

Any character whos recovery doesnt allow them to grab a ledge till its done are characters this can be applied to. For example, Marts revocery move will send him for the ledge, moment he gets near it, he grabs, but a recovery like MKs, which doesnt grab onto a ledge can be Spiked if in the right position (Spiking MK this way I imagine would be hard, but hes the first one that I took advantage of)

 

[arm]

How do you make WoI not jump? I use it sometimes to jump for B Airs and whatnot.

So how would you be able to get back to the ground fast enough to D TIlt?

Jump, then activate WoI immediately after leaving the ground. For more info, look into Wingdashing.

 

[sagemoon]

O_o?? this is new? I have a replay of me doing this in april. The opponent can just Di to catch the ledge or so many different things that will make this very improbable to pull off in a serious match.

 

[IDK]

of course they can DI... but who's going to expect to be WoI'd off the stage?

 

[kupo15]

i honestly dont know if this works or not so I cant comment but I agree and my friend agrees as to why wingdash is effect, its unexpected so this might work. i would expect that they would grab the ledge but who knows.

 

[Aminar]

This sounds so cool, but I cannot get it to work worth a diddly. Oh Well, Thanks for the idea.

 

[IDK]

as i said it IS pretty tough. you get it with practice though. i know it's possible because i've done it.

 

[Kmaru]

Id say that the grab release was better but thats my choice

 

[IDK]

^^^ sounds good but in that case you'd have to land a grab. you just have to WoI over in this case though.

 

[sagemoon]

of course they can DI... but who's going to expect to be WoI'd off the stage?

Anyone with a reaction time...

 

[IDK]

yeah i knew someone would say that if i put it like that... there isn't really enough time to DI anyway if you do it perfectly.

 

[sagemoon]

Theres plenty of time to hit down to fast fall after being pushed off the ledge.

 

[Fox Hater]

I have dont it plenty of times before. I thought this was know in SWF since your suposed to be the elites. but anyways. I have tried it with my friends and is really hard for them to DI. they could do DI only if done wrong and slow. Some times I jab and dtilt to trick them. I have to admit is hard but try it on training with slow speed.

 

[kown]

maybe its only certain chars that it works on. lol i just did it on lucario but the other day it seemed impossible against someone else ( i forgot).

 

[rinoH]

ive only done it like once and it was by luck

 

[IDK]

also, on those characters it doesn't work on, if they decide to fast fall they're putting themselves in a bad position to be gimped.

 

[kown]

yea so you guys know that feeling when your "in the moment" at tournies. thats pretty much the only time i could pull this off.

 

[sagemoon]

also, on those characters it doesn't work on, if they decide to fast fall they're putting themselves in a bad position to be gimped.

The ledge is a bad position?

 

[kupo15]

the ledge is unsafe and limits your options IMO.

 

[sagemoon]

ledge game is prolly where you're most safe.

 

[IDK]

The ledge is a bad position?

well, if you do it right and they fast fall, they will fast fall past the edge. and if they are on the edge... no. it isn't safe. you have limited options meaning you can be trapped and punished in every situation. if you want to stay there you have to renew your frames. playing anyone with a spike, especially marth or luigi... you fail.

 

[sagemoon]

Last time I checked luigi cant do anything to a pit on the ledge. Pit can drop down and uair if luigi is close. Then shoot an arrow if they're far away. In most situations I purposely goto the ledge to get invulnerable frames to play it safe....

The wind push does not push you far enough away from the edge to where you cant easily DI to the ledge. The shield also blocks wind. This tech is impossible to do on a competent opponent. Meaning one who understands DI, has the reaction time to catch a baseball, and isnt a vegetable just standing on the edge. The ONLY time i see this being pu t to use is if a link player misses a grab at the exact distance he needs to be, then you wingpush to spike him.

 

[kupo15]

lol at your analogy. The reason why it can be unsafe is because you are limited in your options.
-jump
-ledge attack
-roll
-ledgehop attack/Airdodge

If you miss your ledge attack because of a mistiming or they space themselves for it then you are vulnerable. Rolling also makes you vulerable because its slow. This leaves basically two options, jump or ledgehop.

Ledgehop is something you have come to expect and it is the most used option. You can shield grab a ledgehop aerial as they come on the stage.

Yes you can ledgehop Uair and regrab for safety but what if they arent falling for the bait? Yes it is also safe if you are running out of jumps and need to renew them but I find that if you can get back on the ledge without the ledge then do so. I realized that I grab the ledge way to much even when I dont need to. Your better off with more options on the ground then on the ledge imo.

I was playing against Rogue and I was expecting him to grab the ledge or Up B snap to it but he generally skipped the ledge and went for an attack back on the stage and it was effective. I also dont think Pits aerials are good enough to play around with on the edge, except the uair if they fall for it, as some of the other characters.

Those are just my thoughts

 

[sagemoon]

you cant shield grab a ledge hopped uair. Some characters literally have no options for approaching someone on the ledge. You missed an option by the way. A normal getup. plus a ledge hop nair is autocancelled so you can grab or utilt.

I played rogue one day and only stayed on the ledge the entire game (rogue or kown) point is, It was pointless because they couldnt do anything (lag really helps ledge camping btw lol).

So what if pit doesnt have very many options to manuver, he still has plenty of options to do damage while the opponent has very few to approach.

 

[kupo15]

I mean im not saying dont do it, I feel safer and more in control on the stage. But I mean what happens if your opponent decides to not approach your ledgehop Uairs? I know its effective just saying.

You can still grab Pit out of the air in his nair. And is there such a thing as different levels of autocanceled moves? If so, it seems as if that move is at the bottom of the list because it seems as if Link can do his moves later and the cancel is better. Pit gets the huge lag as we all know and it seems as if link gets none.

 

[IDK]

you wanna try to get up off the ledge without being punished on any good oponent? doesn't work too well...