Will Smash 4 be the "Street Fighter 4" of Smash Bros?

[RanserSSF4]

Before you answer the qeustion above and comment below why I'm comparing Smash 4 to a Street fighter game since they're different fighting games, I want to point out one thing of why Smash 4 could be the "Street Fighter 4" of the Smash Bros Series (I'm not going to include Brawl btw):

- Street Fighter 4 was a fighting game that a lot of competitors thought it was too slow/defensive for a street fighter game because they're more used to SF3: Third Strike and took out most of the games mechanics (Which in this case is Melee). What ended up happening is that, as the metagame for SF4 evolved and continued (If you don't count the multiple patches/versions of the game), more of the SF3 and Super Turbo players started to get into the game and adapt to it's speed and other changes. Today, SF4 (or USF4) is the most popular fighting game in the FGC and has been played super defensive, but it mostly depended on who you were fighting against. It's mostly entertaining when you're anticipating one of the players to counter or punish a move that's unsafe. Trust me, I had to adapt to Injustice's slower speed and mechanics since I was more used to the faster speed of Mortal Kombat 9, and I enjoyed Injustice competitively, despite it being defensive as hell, until more patches came out to fix that.

In terms of Smash 4, from what I gathered, in terms of speed and mechanics discovered so far (All this could have changed by now), if it succeeds in the community, despite some flaws, it may become the new "Street Fighter 4" of the FGC and Smash Community. if it does happen, most of the smash community will possibly give the game a try and try to adapt to it, while still having that one smash bros game they're used to the most.

I will play Smash 4 competitively despite some flaws it may have and I will enjoy it. I do agree that landing lag should be adjusted a little more, but the game still has lots of potential and I do think it will be a better competitive game than Brawl!

P.S. I do enjoy Melee and Project M more from a competitive aspect, but I do respect the Brawl competitive scene! Also, I'm not saying it will be "Street fighter 4," I'm just giving out speculation and like I said, it depends on how it succeeds in the Smash Community!

 

[Nielicus]

Idk but I know Smash 4 is going to be a lot better than it's predecessors

 

[topspin1617]

I like your comparison. I just hope that Smashers don't give up on it in a month because it's not as fast as Melee and just go back to that.

As you say, USF4 is extremely popular, and took time to develop its metagame. What if all its players had gone back to the previous SF and never gave it a chance to develop? All that potential for it to be a great game, even if it's different from its predecessors, wasted.

 

[κomıc]

I have a feeling it is going to get things right that Brawl and Melee got wrong.

Heck, with Project M, I'm surprised people are still playing Melee when a refined and polished "fan-sequel" is out now.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

Brawl pretty much is SF3 culturally though while Melee fills the cultural role of SF2. SF3 was hated by an awful lot of SF players for being so different from its predecessors even while being a legitimately successful competitive game in its own right, and it was only SF4 that was a lot more similar to SF2 while still moving things forward in a lot of ways that brought everyone together. So yeah, smash 4 is likely to be like SF4, but I don't think you constructed the analogy correctly.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

Yes, I hope?

 

[RanserSSF4]

Brawl pretty much is SF3 culturally though while Melee fills the cultural role of SF2. SF3 was hated by an awful lot of SF players for being so different from its predecessors even while being a legitimately successful competitive game in its own right, and it was only SF4 that was a lot more similar to SF2 while still moving things forward in a lot of ways that brought everyone together. So yeah, smash 4 is likely to be like SF4, but I don't think you constructed the analogy correctly.

My apologies for that and I see your point, but like every fighting game, as the metagame evolves more, more players will start giving the game a try and try to adapt.

 

[RanserSSF4]

I like your comparison. I just hope that Smashers don't give up on it in a month because it's not as fast as Melee and just go back to that.

As you say, USF4 is extremely popular, and took time to develop its metagame. What if all its players had gone back to the previous SF and never gave it a chance to develop? All that potential for it to be a great game, even if it's different from its predecessors, wasted.

I know what you mean. As I mentioned before, when I played MK9, I was so used to it's fast-pace gameplay, I thought Injustice was a disappointment since it was slower than MK9, but as I played it more, giving it another chance, I started to get used to the game and eventually, I finally got adapted to it and started to enjoy it competitively.

Although I will admit, there are some fighting games that got shotted and failed for good reasons, but i still agree, Smash 4 has lots of potential from what most of us have seen so far.

 

[strawhatninja]

I think it will be accepted more then Brawl, but I'm sure there will still be people hanging on and saying Melee is better still.

 

[Nontoxic]

I think faster gameplay would benefit the game competitively, but isn't necessarily mandatory for the game to thrive. It for sure will be better than Brawl (competitively), but that doesn't mean all too much considering Brawl didn't have many competitive aspects to it to begin with. I definitely think it needs a plethora of movement options and interesting, deep gameplay if it is going to be near the competitive level that melee was. It has the potential to be an interesting competitive game like Melee is, and I hope it does. I think most people would love to see Sm4sh have its own competitive scene that's just as interesting as Melee that will bring in players from all installments of the game.

 

[Mensrea]

I actually don't think it will have much of a community after the first year.

The competitive scene gave Brawl a big chance. Everyone played Brawl, its community was big for many years. It was the sequel to Melee, so of course people were going to give it a shot. Slowly, people realized that they just didn't like Brawl. The scene dwindled, and now with the documentary and Evo, Melee is bigger than ever, and Brawl is dead.

Smash 4 is the sequel to Brawl. People are going to be way more hesitant going into it than they were with Brawl. Already, pre release, people are disappointed with the impressions, are reactions to the game we've seen so far have been poor.. It looks VERY similar to Brawl, so I don't think competitives are going to give it as much of a chance as they gave Brawl.

I'd say, a year from release, Melee will be back on top as the dominant game. Smash 4 will dwindle from there on out.

It's the sequel to a game that wasn't well liked by the competitive community, and it looks just like that game. With Melee bigger than ever and Project M on the rise, there is no way that the Smash 4 community will survive for long.

 

[Renji64]

I don't think think it will be like SF4 smash 4 isn't gonna be updated or patched unless gamebreaking. I do get what your saying but it is a extension of brawl and street fighter is intended to be competitive smash not so much sakurai said it is a party game what he is making expect a party game.

 

[Turokman5896]

I actually don't think it will have much of a community after the first year.

The competitive scene gave Brawl a big chance. Everyone played Brawl, its community was big for many years. It was the sequel to Melee, so of course people were going to give it a shot. Slowly, people realized that they just didn't like Brawl. The scene dwindled, and now with the documentary and Evo, Melee is bigger than ever, and Brawl is dead.

Smash 4 is the sequel to Brawl. People are going to be way more hesitant going into it than they were with Brawl. Already, pre release, people are disappointed with the impressions, are reactions to the game we've seen so far have been poor.. It looks VERY similar to Brawl, so I don't think competitives are going to give it as much of a chance as they gave Brawl.

I'd say, a year from release, Melee will be back on top as the dominant game. Smash 4 will dwindle from there on out.

It's the sequel to a game that wasn't well liked by the competitive community, and it looks just like that game. With Melee bigger than ever and Project M on the rise, there is no way that the Smash 4 community will survive for long.

This is bad. You need to be more open minded about the game, especially considering you have not played it...

 

[Black Mantis]

I actually don't think it will have much of a community after the first year.

The competitive scene gave Brawl a big chance. Everyone played Brawl, its community was big for many years. It was the sequel to Melee, so of course people were going to give it a shot. Slowly, people realized that they just didn't like Brawl. The scene dwindled, and now with the documentary and Evo, Melee is bigger than ever, and Brawl is dead.

Smash 4 is the sequel to Brawl. People are going to be way more hesitant going into it than they were with Brawl. Already, pre release, people are disappointed with the impressions, are reactions to the game we've seen so far have been poor.. It looks VERY similar to Brawl, so I don't think competitives are going to give it as much of a chance as they gave Brawl.

I'd say, a year from release, Melee will be back on top as the dominant game. Smash 4 will dwindle from there on out.

It's the sequel to a game that wasn't well liked by the competitive community, and it looks just like that game. With Melee bigger than ever and Project M on the rise, there is no way that the Smash 4 community will survive for long.

All of this is your opinion. Brawl is still popular in Japan (more than Melee).

 

[Sensei]

I doesn't matter to me either way. The game looks fun as hell and I just want to SMASH my rivals!

 

[Booster]

You mean a really ****ty game that pisses me the **** off due to piss poor controls, an annoying as **** fanbase who worships the game, gets several ****ty ass re-releases as opposed to DLC, HAS DLC in addition to this ****ing horrible re-releases, impossible to pull off combos, opponents who constantly pull off these impossible combos (Even on easy) and a **** ton of other issues? HELL NO will Super Smash Bros 4 turn out like that disaster of a game. I'll stick to Street Fighter 2 thank you, it may have a smaller roster, but it still holds up to that pile of ****.

 

[josh bones]

You mean a really ****ty game that pisses me the **** off due to piss poor controls, an annoying as **** fanbase who worships the game, gets several ****ty *** re-releases as opposed to DLC, HAS DLC in addition to this ****ing horrible re-releases, impossible to pull off combos, opponents who constantly pull off these impossible combos (Even on easy) and a **** ton of other issues? HELL NO will Super Smash Bros 4 turn out like that disaster of a game. I'll stick to Street Fighter 2 thank you, it may have a smaller roster, but it still holds up to that pile of ****.

Someone's mad about losing arn't they?

 

[Booster]

Someone's mad about losing arn't they?

I ****ing hate the game, it's one of the worst I've ever played and the combos are bull****

 

[josh bones]

I ****ing hate the game, it's one of the worst I've ever played and the combos are bull****

You say that smash 4 shouldn't be like street fighter, where the creator doesn't hate their communities guts? Yeah your salty about something

 

[RanserSSF4]

I will say this though; Smash 4 will be given a chance and if people don't like it, than fine, they won't play it or support it.

however, if you do enjoy the game for what it is when it comes out and you want to continue supporting it, than do it. we won't stop you. Everyone will have different opinions and I'm fine with that, as long as they're honest about it and don't cause controversy or be jerks about it. As xD1x said, most people should also remain optimistic and open-minded.

Do I think some things should be fixed? Yes. Will the metagame still evolve and continue despite major flaws? Depends, but to me, Yes.

 

[Acadian Flycatcher]

The pre-release struggle is real.

 

[ferioku]

Wow this thread doesnt look like it shoulf live any longer! Simple, Don't buy the game booster. No one is forcing you. Seeing as you have so much hate for this game why bother posting here?

 

[TeaTwoTime]

I actually don't think it will have much of a community after the first year.

The competitive scene gave Brawl a big chance. Everyone played Brawl, its community was big for many years. It was the sequel to Melee, so of course people were going to give it a shot. Slowly, people realized that they just didn't like Brawl. The scene dwindled, and now with the documentary and Evo, Melee is bigger than ever, and Brawl is dead.

Smash 4 is the sequel to Brawl. People are going to be way more hesitant going into it than they were with Brawl. Already, pre release, people are disappointed with the impressions, are reactions to the game we've seen so far have been poor.. It looks VERY similar to Brawl, so I don't think competitives are going to give it as much of a chance as they gave Brawl.

I'd say, a year from release, Melee will be back on top as the dominant game. Smash 4 will dwindle from there on out.

It's the sequel to a game that wasn't well liked by the competitive community, and it looks just like that game. With Melee bigger than ever and Project M on the rise, there is no way that the Smash 4 community will survive for long.

Most impressions I've read are that it's similar to Brawl in some ways and entirely separate from both Brawl and Melee in others. Many people say it's faster than Brawl and aspects of Brawl that people hated, like tripping, are gone. Even though we haven't seen the entire roster, character balance looks better than ever as well. The majority is more optimistic than the pessimistic vocal minority can make it seem.

I'd say it's remarkably unlikely that Smash 4 will dwindle out a year after release. My prediction is that Melee will stay, but with reduced popularity, as most people adapt and migrate to Smash 4. Saying that "there is no way that the Smash 4 community will survive for long" seems completely absurd to me.

 

[Johnknight1]

Idk but I know Smash 4 is going to be a lot better than it's predecessors

I wouldn't say that without having played a game.

The same people I know who said that for Brawl sold their copies of it not long after buying them.

 

[CyberZixx]

I think so. A slower less technical (but still good) game that brings in a bunch of new players and grows the scene but the old players all prefer the older game.

 

[alex6309]

Technically it is because it's the fourth game.

 

[Johnknight1]

I have a feeling it is going to get things right that Brawl and Melee got wrong.

Heck, with Project M, I'm surprised people are still playing Melee when a refined and polished "fan-sequel" is out now.

If you knew anything about Project M, you wouldn't say that. It's verrrrryyyyyy different from Melee.

It contains strengths and weaknesses in game design that Melee never had.

Off the top of my head, one strength is more useful characters, and one weakness is that all the Melee top tier but Fox, Falco, and Marth are "meh" at best.

 

[SS-bros14]

Before I vote, was Street Fighters 4 good or bad?

 

[Johnknight1]

Before I vote, was Street Fighters 4 good or bad?

It's slower and more intentional, but it's very deep and read-heavy.

So if you like deep gameplay, read-heavy gameplay, and/or slower movement, then your answer is probably "yes".

If you dislike 2 or more of those things, then probably "no".

All of this is your opinion. Brawl is still popular in Japan (more than Melee).

Japan's competitive smash scene is microscopic.

However, I will say the few people I know of from their scene are freaking fantastic smash brothers to have.

 

[SS-bros14]

Eh, I just put down don't know.

 

[Johnknight1]

I actually don't think it will have much of a community after the first year.

The competitive scene gave Brawl a big chance. Everyone played Brawl, its community was big for many years. It was the sequel to Melee, so of course people were going to give it a shot. Slowly, people realized that they just didn't like Brawl. The scene dwindled, and now with the documentary and Evo, Melee is bigger than ever, and Brawl is dead.

Smash 4 is the sequel to Brawl. People are going to be way more hesitant going into it than they were with Brawl. Already, pre release, people are disappointed with the impressions, are reactions to the game we've seen so far have been poor.. It looks VERY similar to Brawl, so I don't think competitives are going to give it as much of a chance as they gave Brawl.

I'd say, a year from release, Melee will be back on top as the dominant game. Smash 4 will dwindle from there on out.

It's the sequel to a game that wasn't well liked by the competitive community, and it looks just like that game. With Melee bigger than ever and Project M on the rise, there is no way that the Smash 4 community will survive for long.

I agree with everything until the last 2 paragraphs, along with the fact you discount new players, which this game will have more of than Brawl just based on the marketing and the fact "this game" is two games.

Also "the competitive community" is divided. Brawl still has a very big scene. It will always maintain a scene.

I don't see Smash 4 having anything but a large scene for 3 years, regardless of how everyone who plays it reacts to it.

If it's a game people like, in the end, people will come to play it.

After all, that is the Smash (competitive scene) way.

 

[<π]

I actually don't think it will have much of a community after the first year.

The competitive scene gave Brawl a big chance. Everyone played Brawl, its community was big for many years. It was the sequel to Melee, so of course people were going to give it a shot. Slowly, people realized that they just didn't like Brawl. The scene dwindled, and now with the documentary and Evo, Melee is bigger than ever, and Brawl is dead.

Smash 4 is the sequel to Brawl. People are going to be way more hesitant going into it than they were with Brawl. Already, pre release, people are disappointed with the impressions, are reactions to the game we've seen so far have been poor.. It looks VERY similar to Brawl, so I don't think competitives are going to give it as much of a chance as they gave Brawl.

I'd say, a year from release, Melee will be back on top as the dominant game. Smash 4 will dwindle from there on out.

It's the sequel to a game that wasn't well liked by the competitive community, and it looks just like that game. With Melee bigger than ever and Project M on the rise, there is no way that the Smash 4 community will survive for long.

Is that what happened? That's not how I remember it at all.

 

[Gidy]

Smash 64 is Street Fighter 1, Melee is Street Fighter 3, and Brawl is Street Fighter 4

It's too soon to call Smash 4 Street Fighter 2, but I hope it is.

 

[Johnknight1]

Is that what happened? That's not how I remember it at all.

Of course not.

Brawl was bigger than Melee roughly until a bit before EVO 2013, and Brawl attendance at tournaments is mostly the same, although with the release of Smash 4 impending it will obviously decline from there.

The thing with Melee is since EVO 2013 and the documentary, competitive Melee has skyrocketed to an ungodly amount of support.

It also helps that while the Brawl competitive community has a lot of bickering picking at the scene and hurting it, Melee doesn't, and the competitive community continues to grow because everyone wants it to grow.

By the end of this year we'll have more Melee tournaments with 50+ entrants than 2001 to 2013 COMBINED!!!

Overall I'm beginning to think that was a terrible post.

The pre-release struggle is real.

Normally I hate this one liners, but dang it, this is the Most Valuable Post of the Thread.

Let the game exist before we make judgments.

Smash 64 is Street Fighter 1

No, Smash 64 is now throwaway garbage.

Smash 64 is like Marvel vs. Capcom 2 if it came before Street Fighter II but had like 1/5th the roster size it ended up having.

 

[κomıc]

If you knew anything about Project M, you wouldn't say that. It's verrrrryyyyyy different from Melee.

It contains strengths and weaknesses in game design that Melee never had.

Off the top of my head, one strength is more useful characters, and one weakness is that all the Melee top tier but Fox, Falco, and Marth are "meh" at best.

I'm speaking objectively in terms of gameplay and control. Melee is a clunky game. That was what I was referring to. You don't really need to be a "pro player" to know this or speak on it. Compared to other launch Gamecube games, Melee stands as one of the most unpolished and not surprisingly considering it was rushed out to meet the launch of the Gamecube in 2001.

 

[thatoneguy1]

third strike was the greatest street fighter ever imo and melee is the best smash imo due to them being fast paced and deep in mechanics. I dont play fighting games to sit around and wait for the opponent but i feel like smash 4 wont be that bad because the aeriels look a lot faster than previous games and the landing lag looks a lot smaller.

 

[Johnknight1]

I'm speaking objectively in terms of gameplay and control. Melee is a clunky game. That was what I was referring to. You don't really need to be a "pro player" to know this or speak on it. Compared to other launch Gamecube games, Melee stands as one of the most unpolished and not surprisingly considering it was rushed out to meet the launch of the Gamecube in 2001.

Melee isn't "clunky", it's touch sensitive and requires a lot of technicality to get the precise movement, like the game Melee and Smash Bros. is most inspired by, Super Mario Bros.

It's very polished in comparison, especially consider we got no patches or re-releases.

Melee is an amazingly polished game balance-wise, considering in the past 2 EVO's 11 players have made the top 8 and they have played 10 different characters in top 8, and 16 characters overall in those 2 EVO's (out of 26).

It's mechanics always properly reward you for smart offense, smart defense, and mixing up your options..

So really, I have no idea what you're even referring to.

 

[JV5Chris]

SF4 takes place in a tight box, Smash games provide an open stage. What works for one is highly unlikely to suit the other. I'd much prefer Smash 4 to stick to the strengths of it's own sub-genre.

 

[DaDavid]

I can't say I'm learned in SF enough to fully agree, but between the OP and AmazingAmpharos' analogy, I suppose I can see it.

Personally I don't care all that much, but it is interesting to see it go through a similar evolution.

also, @ JV5Chris , did you read the OP?

 

[κomıc]

Melee isn't "clunky", it's touch sensitive and requires a lot of technicality to get the precise movement, like the game Melee and Smash Bros. is most inspired by, Super Mario Bros.

It's very polished in comparison, especially consider we got no patches or re-releases.

Melee is an amazingly polished game balance-wise, considering in the past 2 EVO's 11 players have made the top 8 and they have played 10 different characters in top 8, and 16 characters overall in those 2 EVO's (out of 26).

It's mechanics always properly reward you for smart offense, smart defense, and mixing up your options..

So really, I have no idea what you're even referring to.

Melee is clunky. And I can guarantee that if a Smash Bros game came out in 2004 and not 2008, Melee wouldn't be receiving the praise it gets. There was nothing for those 7 years to compare Melee to. No competition and no other game like it. So, when you're stuck with playing the 2nd iteration of a game for so long, you're going to feel inclined to stick with it and believe it is as great as you think it is.

EVO is irrelevant in my point. And so are the top characters or what not. I'm speaking from a totally different perspective. By today's standards, Melee is unpolished and clunky. I cannot stand games where I have to fight the controls. Animations are stiff and mechanical. It's not a pretty game on all sides.

Is it a bad game? No. Far from it. But it isn't a game that deserves the praise it gets. Maybe the dedicated community, sure.

If you put Melee and Brawl/Smash 4 in front of someone and let them play the game and if you were to ask them which "feels" better, the latter would likely be chosen. And it really has nothing to do with one or the other being competitive (since Melee and Brawl both are). Today, there are several games with crap controls and sometimes, the sequels improve upon those flaws to make it "feel better".

Personally, I prefer Brawl because of the responsive controls and I have control over my character. After 2 months of playing Brawl and going back to Melee, I was lost in translation in how I played Melee for so long when something that feels better and is responsive took 7 years to be released. Granted, the only thing I do miss from Melee is the fast paced gameplay. Thankfully, Project M covers that even though I'm not a big fan of the set backs they brought to certain characters imo and the weird ledge mechanics carried over from Melee. I would have preferred Brawl+ to be refined and complete, though.

And after playing Smash 4 (and seeing hours of footage), it feels like its own game. The responsive and precise controls of Brawl with more speed that is somewhat closer to Melee's pace.