Will another PM surface? The possibility of a PM 2.0

[Garquille14]

Wouldn't PM just be updated with Smash4 characters instead of a whole new mod? PM is a lot more accessible to players than a WiiU version would be. Splintering the mod communities even more could do more harm than good.

 

[DaDavid]

Saddy if people want a PM 2.0 they would most likely have to stop updating there wiiu since literally the next update Nintendo will probably end up bricking the system or making the hack unaccessible

True. Honestly I think the desire would easily be there if hacking was as easy as the Wii. But given that less people will probably gravitate to a PM 2.0, AND it will be more difficult to maintain such a hack in the first place, I imagine it will probably just be tried and abandoned.

@ Garquille14 Adding characters from Smash 4 to PM would almost definitely get them shut down. Even if it wasn't going to, the team has already pretty much said they won't be doing that.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

Wouldn't PM just be updated with Smash4 characters instead of a whole new mod? PM is a lot more accessible to players than a WiiU version would be. Splintering the mod communities even more could do more harm than good.

PM team stated that they wont back log the new characters from smash 4 to avoid competing with nintendo's product an obtaining a cease and desist letter.

 

[TimeSmash]

I am in support of a PM 2.0, and do wonder how long it would take to come into function. An argument against myself besides the lack of a team to work on PM 2.0 is legal issues like someone said and the simple fact that PM has been shown to work fine on the WiiU, which means that PM 1.0 is not system exclusive.

I'm kind of calling out myself here because I feel like in order for this to be a "fuller" conversations, arguments in favor of/against PM need to occur, as well as arguments for the probability of it occurring. So instead of just addressing if people want/need a new PM, I'm opening this topic up more so people can have arugments behind their reasoning, and not just the reason itself. Short story, you can begin politely arguing each other now, and depending on how busy my life gets the OP might be altered to reflect particular viewpoints, topics, and arguments.

 

[Jade_Rock55]

No I like P:M but come on the wii u releases updates every couple months and what if SM4SH gets balance patches or dlc?Then the people playing PM2 won't be able to get the new stuff.Also the wii u hasn't even been hacked(but we should probably wait til November-December to talk about that).I don't think would want to play P:M on such a small screen since tournaments would be difficult to record on those screens while still letting the player play at their best and not blocking their view,unless you some expensive recording equipment or something like that.

TLDR:No wii u and 3ds updates would kill it in a couple months.

 

[Souless_shadow]

I really think it will happen if the game really needs it. But with the way the game looks so far I really don't think we will need a new Project m.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

In the end i believe that PM 2.0 would be to time consuming to manage and should not be bothered with. PM in general should flesh its self out more as its own game.

 

[smashbro29]

Well unlike Brawl it doesn't seem like Melee for babies.

So no.

 

[Renji64]

Too early to say if it does happen it would be cool always fun to have more options in smash. I think this game won't leave bored as brawl did. It fixes most of brawl's issues.

 

[Joe73191]

The only thing that would bring us a Project M WiiU/3DS is if the new characters and stages are just so good that the PM people can't resist a melee version of them. Not gonna lie would I love to see a megaman or little mac PM? YES! However the PMBR have given me so much more than I can give them that to ask more of them would be too selfish.

 

[Flaxr XIII]

PM 2.0? Hasn't Project M already passed 3.0?

 

[NewGuy79]

so can some one remind me ware all you guys have gotten all this concert info regarding SSB4s design and mechanics?

just saying this question is pretty pointless (and kind of pretentious) considering how little information we have of how the game plays.

 

[mimgrim]

A PM 2.0 will never happen, or to be more accurate, will never match the original, this coming from an avid PM fan.

-As stated earlier, the PMBR has no intention to spend time and effort in coding a seemingly harder-to-make Wii U mod. Hell, they haven't even finished PM yet.
-No point in making the same game again for just a handful of newcomers and updated visuals.
-With the stricter environment the Wii U has, it will probably be a lot harder to make a fully-functionable mod without facing issues from Nintendo (I'm not too sure in this one).

Even if a different group of people wishes to make a PM-like mod, I don't really expect it to happen anytime soon, and it will likely not be as popular as the one we have now, which, quite frankly, is a miracle by itself.

Quoted for truth. Literally.

The people behind Project M have already stated they will not make another one for the Wii-U/3DS (though PM on a handheld would be rather rad lol). So, assuming the Wii-U is hackable by then, if there does end up being a Project M from the Wii-U. It will not be done by the original people, more then likely, and thus won't be of as good quality, probably.

 

[Homelessvagrant]

Why is this even a topic at this point. Project M was created to fix Brawl's "short-coming's." As of now we don't even know if Smash 4 is "broken." I mean are we to say we aren't content with the unfinished smash product that none of us have even played? That just seems wrong to me.

 

[Giga Man]

I don't really care if Smash 4 gets a Project M or not. The current one is magnificent, and I have no problem playing older Smash games alongside the new and current ones. I'm only concerned about the possibility of modding Smash 4 in general. I've gotten quite addicted to (and spoiled with) modding Brawl, and I'd love to add my own custom textures, stages, music, etc. to Smash 4. If Sakurai would just confirm that we can make custom colors for characters, confirm a new and improved stage builder, and confirm custom music via external device, I wouldn't have to think about it too much.

 

[Homelessvagrant]

That makes sense and I can see people getting behind just general modding of smash 4 considering how huge it was in Brawl.

 

[Kazyx]

My personal belief is, as long as there is a combination of the following:

• A demand for the product in consideration
• A willing and dedicated team to create said product
• The time and resources to allot for the creation of said product
• The end product will be enjoyable or have memory-inducing experiences

Then I say yes, a Smash Modification could and likely will be happening. It may not be "Project M2" or "SSB 4 Minus" to toss out examples, but we could see something. The modding community would first need to be able to access the files, find some way to manipulate the files to accomodate for what they want to do, and be able to properly implement them into the game and see the result. The Brawl modding community, if I'm not mistaken, is still discovering things to this day. As is the Melee one, and while not relevant to this discussion, even Speedrunning communities are finding new tricks for old games whose routes have not changed in 10+ years.

Anything is possible if the mind is put to the task at hand. The actual end result of Smash 4 may far exceed our expectations, but there will still be those who want some sort of modded content (such as characters "upgrading" from Assists to playable).

 

[slicesabre]

-Yes, I think there will be a hack, but I DON'T want it.

Because the tourny goers will NOT be satisfied with Smash 4 and have already stated as much.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

I dont think anyone here has posted concrete information on smash 4 design system. Nor purposely did so. People posted the technical issue with the WII U. But when the topic of smash 4 its mostly "seems like" and "wait and see".

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

My personal belief is, as long as there is a combination of the following:

• A demand for the product in consideration
• A willing and dedicated team to create said product
• The time and resources to allot for the creation of said product
• The end product will be enjoyable or have memory-inducing experiences

Then I say yes, a Smash Modification could and likely will be happening. It may not be "Project M2" or "SSB 4 Minus" to toss out examples, but we could see something. The modding community would first need to be able to access the files, find some way to manipulate the files to accomodate for what they want to do, and be able to properly implement them into the game and see the result. The Brawl modding community, if I'm not mistaken, is still discovering things to this day. As is the Melee one, and while not relevant to this discussion, even Speedrunning communities are finding new tricks for old games whose routes have not changed in 10+ years.

Anything is possible if the mind is put to the task at hand. The actual end result of Smash 4 may far exceed our expectations, but there will still be those who want some sort of modded content (such as characters "upgrading" from Assists to playable).

This.

We for sure will see a Smash 4 mod in the same vein as P:M; that much I am certain. However, to what extent these modifications will be is entirely unknown. Even with patches and updates, fans will aways find a need to improve a game whether it's through speed, balancing, or anything else concerning gameplay.

If character balance does not get patched well, we will see a fan tweaked character balance (P:M Zelda gawwwd!). If Smash 4 is around brawl's speed, the Melee/P:M community will be sure to make a Melee-speed SSB4. Though I do not see a Project B seeing as how Brawl was ill received by the competitive community. Why make a game that had been improved speed wise and make it slower?

 

[Spazzy_D]

I think people are overstating the likelihood of playing a game mod on a non-gimped Wii U. Wii hacking was extremely easy, unprecedentedly so, and chances are that if an exploit was found one would likely have to give up online functionality (which seems to be much improved from Brawl) in order for it to work. On top of this, it would be a more time consuming endeavor to created and manipulate convincing models on an HD system. Couple that with the fact that the Wii U has not effectively been hacked and any sort of functional Project M 2.0 probably won't see the light of day until Smash 6 is closing in.

Would I like to see it? Eh, I have mixed feeling on Project M over all, but why not.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

I think people are overstating the likelihood of playing a game mod on a non-gimped Wii U. Wii hacking was extremely easy, unprecedentedly so, and chances are that if an exploit was found one would likely have to give up online functionality (which seems to be much improved from Brawl) in order for it to work. On top of this, it would be a more time consuming endeavor to created and manipulate convincing models on an HD system. Couple that with the fact that the Wii U has not effectively been hacked and any sort of functional Project M 2.0 probably won't see the light of day until Smash 6 is closing in.
Would I like to see it? Eh, I have mixed feeling on Project M over all, but why not.

I think what you said was stated somewhere in the tread but yeah i agree anyway. But i think the point is to humor the idea.

 

[[TSON]]

-As stated earlier, the PMBR has no intention to spend time and effort in coding a seemingly harder-to-make Wii U mod. Hell, they haven't even finished PM yet.

From studying gameplay, it seems SSB4's engine and API are likely to be based off of Brawl's. There's a lot of hints that the action/subaction system along with its unintentional flaws (platform cancelling as with that one Zelda clip) are returning. Brawl's API was incredibly simple, it just had a lot of commands, and the only hard part was documenting each of the commands. Melee's API set up for Brawl's, and Brawl's is looking to set up for SSB4's. That being said, the bigger chunk of PM's work goes into animation, which would, assuming a "BrawlBox" type program is made for SSB4 in the next couple of years, be of the same difficulty if not easier. And in addition to that, I'd say it's pretty likely that Sakurai didn't make a whole new API for the 3DS version seeing as how it was done so quickly, or a whole different one for the Wii U version while 3DS is using one comparable to Brawl. I don't think it would be too hard.

--With the stricter environment the Wii U has, it will probably be a lot harder to make a fully-functionable mod without facing issues from Nintendo (I'm not too sure in this one).

The Wii U is pretty much already hacked from the ground up; even deeper than the Wii was. We're talking stuff that would only be patchable by a new hardware revision. The problem is, unlike the Wii, this device isn't already in millions of peoples' hands. In the Wii scene, for every person interested in piracy, there were like 10 that just wanted to make their own Mario Galaxy stages, or Mario Kart textures, or hack Brawl, or just do things for fun. So far the small Wii U scene only is interested in leeching off of peoples' work and using it to make piracy-enabling apps.

The team that got all the way into the Wii U decided not to release their exploit until devs figure out how to get Linux working 100% in the sandboxed virtual Wii mode, to show that there's legitimate developers that are interested in more than just piracy... and it hasn't been progressing much. Here's to hoping MK8 and SSB can create a lively scene and we can get back to the good ol' Wii days.

-Even if a different group of people wishes to make a PM-like mod, I don't really expect it to happen anytime soon, and it will likely not be as popular as the one we have now, which, quite frankly, is a miracle by itself.

In the unlikely event that such a project takes swing, I will be too busy playing the original and vanilla Smash 4.

Keep in mind the timing, though. If another hack to the scale of PM happens, it'll be a loooong time from now. The Wii U exploit would have to be published, we'd need to go through the whole Homebrew Channel battle again and have someone make that stable/keep Nintendo from doing X/Y to prevent it, someone would have to make a Gecko OS/Riivolution equivalent, a File Patch code would have to be created along with some other codes, we'd need a rip of the ISO so we can start studying/editing, we'd need a PSA equivalent, we'd need TONS of documentation, we'd need all the file types analyzed, etc. We're talking years of work. PM didn't come out 6 years after Brawl just because the idea was thought up 6 years later, it's because, for the most part, none/little-to-none of it was possible until like 5 years later.
In 6 years, SSB4 won't be new anymore, we'll have a whole new scene and know like everything about it, and we'll all be hype for SSB5.

 

[Katy Parry]

Wouldn't PM just be updated with Smash4 characters instead of a whole new mod? PM is a lot more accessible to players than a WiiU version would be. Splintering the mod communities even more could do more harm than good.

No, I don't really understand why, but them adding in elements from Smash 4 (like adding Zelda's new down special) is considered copyright infringement. Since Project M is just taking Brawl and changing Brawl, they can't get introuble.

I've been on the official thread of Project M and asked them this question, and they've stated they will not being doing such things in an official build or release.

However, if PSA'ers and model hackers want to tackle that on in an unofficial build, they can, but if its commercially released, that would be considered illegal.

So unless they hack the Wii U (only a matter of time IMO) and change Smash 4, no, there will not be another Project M.

 

[Wario Bros.]

If there is a "new game" Smash mod of any kind for Smash 3DS or Wii U (which I severely doubt), I can't see it going far beyond offline. Remember, unlike Brawl, you are no longer anonymous and Nintendo easily now has the power to ban users for cheating (mods are a form of cheats). Even offline can be dangerous if one is stupid enough to show off photos of mods on Miiverse (which I can TOTALLY see happening know how badly inexperienced Miiverse members are).

TL;DR Unlikely with admins watching us now.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

If there is a "new game" Smash mod of any kind for Smash 3DS or Wii U (which I severely doubt), I can't see it going far beyond offline. Remember, unlike Brawl, you are no longer anonymous and Nintendo easily now has the power to ban users for cheating (mods are a form of cheats). Even offline can be dangerous if one is stupid enough to show off photos of mods on Miiverse (which I can TOTALLY see happening know how badly inexperienced Miiverse members are).

TL;DR Unlikely with admins watching us now.

I gotta thank you my friend you actually made something else clear now. I actually did not even think about this.

 

[Takehiko]

http://smashboards.com/threads/for-smash-4-to-succeed-we-need-to-change.337019/
This first post is what I feel about the proposed question.

 

[Brickbuild101]

I hope not, but if it has to happen, please don't treat it like it's a real Smash Bros. game.

 

[Hayzie]

I messed with some Brawl hacks for fun, but I never played Project M.

I'd gladly help with models and textures, though. That's my specialty.

 

[KenboCalrissian]

My opinion? It's too early to ask this question.

Project M (and Brawl +/Brawl -/etc.) came out years after Brawl's release because it failed to fulfill the needs of gamers who were used to Melee. That's not saying Brawl is a bad game; That's saying Brawl didn't live up to the expectations of Melee's competetive crowd, and that's not a bad thing either because that wasn't Brawl's goal to begin with. In other words, Brawl mods were a product of our impatience.

Now, we're looking at a game that hasn't been released yet, and we're not sure whether it's going to give us what we want. Signs are looking positive so far, but no one really knows because we haven't felt it yet.

Another point that's been brought up is the WiiU is better equipped to shut down hackers. P:M is successful because the Wii doesn't have an effective patching system, so they can't cover the event hook loophole P:M exploits to get itself running.

The WiiU can handle this (presumably), but another point to consider is whether Nintendo cares about it enough to run a patch. For the first few years, they certainly will. After that, when the game isn't making a lot of money for them anymore, they may not find it worthwhile to expend resources trumping the efforts of hackers (and in truth, they might benefit from a small increase in sales when a non-profit team comes along and breathes new life into their game, but sadly they're too conservative to think that way).

Though I can't speak for the PMBR, I would guess they've already considered all of this and determined that:
-Right now, demand for a new P:M for SSB4 is very low
-Right now, demand for continued support for the current P:M is still very high
-When SSB4 releases, there's no telling whether there will be demand for a new P:M, and doing so might be technically infeasible given the WiiU's capabilities
-When SSB4 releases, demand for the current P:M is going to take a nose dive

If I were in the PMBR, my response to that would be to fill out those extra character slots in P:M and give players a reason to remain invested in the current iteration, particularly if those new characters are unavailable in SSB4. I would remain open to a new P:M, but keep that on the backburner while the current iteration still has fruit to bear.

 

[S_B]

Not sure if another topic has been made on this, and the topic itself is super preemptive, but I am just wondering if the community thinks and or wants another hack like PM to surface for Smash 4, whether it be on the WiiU or 3DS. I figured a WiiU hack will probably have more sway on the community, but I'm looking forward to hearing the opinions of everyone on this site. Please answer the poll on your opinions in this matter.\

For reasons of brevity and to keep things simple, we will refer to this PM sequel as "PM 2.0" for now (regardless if it ever comes to fruition or is named differently if it happens).

I'm also hoping this thread fosters the discussion of WHY a PM 2.0 is or is not warranted, and/or people's opinions on a PM 2.0. This isn't really a speculative for the content of a PM 2.0, but for will it exist at all.

First of all, why does it seem no one "likes" OPs that create interesting discussion?

Second, I hope we don't need one because I hope SSB4 is both competitive and balanced enough that we never need it.

 

[Empyrean]

I hope not, but if it has to happen, please don't treat it like it's a real Smash Bros. game.

You cannot force people to think one way or another. I don't care who made the game, as long as it's fun, polished and runs smoothly, it's a Smash title for me.

Note that with your approach, nobody would have ever made a real, stand-alone game out of Counter-Strike, Dota, and other popular mods, as they would never be considered to be anything beyond a mod.

 

[slicesabre]

You cannot force people to think one way or another. I don't care who made the game, as long as it's fun, polished and runs smoothly, it's a Smash title for me.

Note that with your approach, nobody would have ever made a real, stand-alone game out of Counter-Strike, Dota, and other popular mods, as they would never be considered to be anything beyond a mod.

I think what the poster means is that Project M is NOT a Smash game it is a mod for Brawl.

Smash 64, Melee, Brawl and Smash4 are Smash games.
P:M, Brawl +/-, etc are mods.

 

[SmashBro99]

Aw, I thought this was a Paper Mario thread that was out of place, its just more talk about Project M

 

[Ryan.]

I think ther'es a good chance, yes. I'll be sticking with Smash 4 for Wii U either way.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

But we're already on Project M 3.0
Why would they release PM 2.0 when we are already past it?

 

[J1NG]

I would be interested to play a hacked Sm4sh under two conditions:
1- Everyone gets bored of vanilla competitive Sm4sh
2 - Creators of a hacked Sm4sh find another way to make the game competitive besides making it exactly like Melee.

 

[Ogre_Deity_Link]

Oh Jaysus, Sm4sh isn't even out yet and people are already talking about ProjectM 2.0. Can we at least wait until it comes out before the community declares it worse than Melee?

 

[stan423321]

While this topic as right now completely theoretical, this is what I'd say about it: most probably not.

Breaking into 3DS sounds relatively plausible right now, but it sure ain't easy. Getting piracy to work was hard, and that's relatively easy compared to hacking and homebrew. On the other hand, Wii U is apparently highly possible to break into given enough interest from low level folk, which it kinda hasn't got, and again apparently having very similar CPU to Wii. Anyway gaining access into both systems is completely possible. What is more problematic is the risk-reward ratio.

3DS is, for what we know, kinda similar in capabilities to Wii. However getting multiplayer to work on 3DS would most probably require multiple hacked systems (no, Download Play is probably not unprotected), and Smash ain't considered at home on the handheld. Wii U doesn't have these problems, it has different ones though: the more complicated system architecture, and the implication that if the Wii hacking team will release their Wii U hack suite, it will be designed with running only homebrew in mind; this would mean no piracy, but also, coincidentally, no hacks and cheats.

All of these are only obstacles that can be overcome. However, given the current state of fourth-party code on both systems, and extrapolating from that, the amount of work spent by community on making "Project MU" work could be spent on making a PC "mechanic sequel"/"fan game"/... from scratch instead if deemed necessary; this would be a superior solution for a number of reasons. So if somebody will have their free time, this is what they will probably do.

 

[TimeSmash]

Oh Jaysus, Sm4sh isn't even out yet and people are already talking about ProjectM 2.0. Can we at least wait until it comes out before the community declares it worse than Melee?

The whole point of this thread is really to assess the want/need of a PM 2.0, or even if that's necessary haha. I'm not saying it's worse than anything yet, but I am really curious as to what people think, even if it's purely tentative. ^_^;

In any case, as multiple others have stated if something like a PM 2.0 did arise, I wouldn't imagine it coming till very much later in the Wii U/3DS' lifespan. Since the Wii doesn't really get updates anymore, there's no risk of it bricking, which probably helped encourage some people to get into PM. I don't want to take the spotlight off Smash 4 at all, but you never know, PM 2.0 could be just as good! I just really think PM is such an interesting mod, and I'd like to see something like it again.