Why the hate on smash4?

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Pivots are the only thing useful in Smash 4, but that doesn't matter because they're way too difficult to do.

That is not an excuse for competitive players.

"Wavedashing is too hard no one will use it because it is too hard"

However, pivoting has been in every Smash game.

More useful in PM/Brawl/Smash 4 than in Melee by far in terms of options.

You don't need pivoting though. It's a good thing to have, but you don't need it. Unlike Melee, you don't really need to learn any of the "tech" to succeed in Smash 4.

I don't need to have the best tech skill to win in melee either.

 

[Bobojack]

More useful in PM/Brawl/Smash 4 than in Melee

What options do pivots give you in these games that arent in melee? Yiu often use pivots in melee and I dont see an option that isnt available in smash4 but instead I see more options.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

What options do pivots give you in these games that arent in melee? Yiu often use pivots in melee and I dont see an option that isnt available in smash4 but instead I see more options.

when you dash dance on a dime, you don't get extended grabs.

edit: people should also recognize that more options =/= better or we would all play tekken.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

I don't think melee players hate smash 4. I think that we consider it beneath us, and that it's annoying to see all these pointless devil's advocates defending smash 4 and trying to pretend it's as deep as melee.

That's how I feel anyway. I don't hate smash 4. I think it's a great game.

That being said, this game more than EVER was designed counter-intuitively to the competitive smash community. In the past the goal with smash was to make a fun party game. The goal with smash 4 was to make a fun party game and to remove ANYTHING that could remotely help the competitive scene.

Quite honestly, there shouldn't even be high level tournaments for this game. If I were to host smash 4 it would be items on, all stages on, due to the casual nature of the game.

I don't HATE the smash 4 competitive scene, however, I do look down on it. It's full of scrubs, and it's full of people trying to compare it to melee when it's clearly, clearly, CLEARLY designed to have a low skill ceiling, and to discourage aggressive dominant play (ledge trumping, rolling, shield stun)

 

[Dolla Pills]

Just some food for thought- the other day I was playing this guy's Puff (he's a Falco player) with my DK (I'm a Falco player) and the game was super slow and full of spaced bairs and quick combos and whatnot, but it was still enjoyable. The guy I was playing with at some point turned to the room of smashers and said, "This means that smash 4 might actually be fun."

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I don't think melee players hate smash 4. I think that we consider it beneath us, and that it's annoying to see all these pointless devil's advocates defending smash 4 and trying to pretend it's as deep as melee.

That's how I feel anyway. I don't hate smash 4. I think it's a great game.

That being said, this game more than EVER was designed counter-intuitively to the competitive smash community. In the past the goal with smash was to make a fun party game. The goal with smash 4 was to make a fun party game and to remove ANYTHING that could remotely help the competitive scene.

Quite honestly, there shouldn't even be high level tournaments for this game. If I were to host smash 4 it would be items on, all stages on, due to the casual nature of the game.

I don't HATE the smash 4 competitive scene, however, I do look down on it. It's full of scrubs, and it's full of people trying to compare it to melee when it's clearly, clearly, CLEARLY designed to have a low skill ceiling, and to discourage aggressive dominant play (ledge trumping, rolling, shield stun)

I'm with you to a point, but then you moved into an area I can't agree or support.

If you are losing to roll spam, I hate to sound patronzing or rude, but you are bad. Plain and simple, it's easy to punish if you could punish Lucario's rolls in Brawl.

Ledge trumping was made for two reasons,

1) Planking, which was a problem that even PM fixed to stop ledge staling with the 5 regrab coding they added.
2) Casuals hated edgehogging and the series is about appealing to that crowd to some degree.

You can still edgeguard with or without it, now it actually takes more to force it rather than jump simpy grabbing the ledge and rolling onto the stage.

If anything Smash 4 was made more than Brawl to try and be more of a middle ground on this front. Saying it should be just all stages with items on is pretty much a spit in the face of anyone that wants to take it seriously. Low skill ceilings are not bad for entry, it's something even PPMD and M2K have said is a flaw with Melee.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

I'm with you to a point, but then you moved into an area I can't agree or support.

If you are losing to roll spam, I hate to sound patronzing or rude, but you are bad. Plain and simple, it's easy to punish if you could punish Lucario's rolls in Brawl.

Ledge trumping was made for two reasons,

1) Planking, which was a problem that even PM fixed to stop ledge staling with the 5 regrab coding they added.
2) Casuals hated edgehogging and the series is about appealing to that crowd to some degree.

You can still edgeguard with or without it, now it actually takes more to force it rather than jump simpy grabbing the ledge and rolling onto the stage.

If anything Smash 4 was made more than Brawl to try and be more of a middle ground on this front. Saying it should be just all stages with items on is pretty much a spit in the face of anyone that wants to take it seriously. Low skill ceilings are not bad for entry, it's something even PPMD and M2K have said is a flaw with Melee.

You raise some good points.

What are your opinions on the new shielding mechanics with low stun and replenish fast? To me, this is even worse than the ledge trumping.

I agree that planking / endlessly refreshing invincibility a la m2k is pretty boring and lame.

I don't see why casuals hate edgehogging so much, it was even a point bonus in melee, you were literally rewarded with points for doing an edgehog (I think the game referred to it as edgehogging as well?)

 

[InfinityAlex]

Honestly though, I don't like Melee because of all the techs they had going on. To succeed in matches against people who actually knew what they were doing, you'd need to play in the most convoluted way (ie, wavedashing) which, imo, makes the game feel much less fun. The reason I don't like Melee is the reason I can't get into Street Fighter; there's way too much to remember and it's too easy to lose. In my experience with SF4 Ultra, it doesn't take a lot to give your opponent the slightest opening, allowing them to knock you to Timbuktu and back. It's not nearly as bad in Melee, but it's just really unforgiving. I used to love Brawl a ton, but in retrospect I do see and agree with the reasons why it's regarded as largely inferior to Melee, even for casuals. For me, Smash 4 is the perfect balance. It is more forgiving than Melee, faster than Brawl and has easy to learn and execute techs, making for a much more pleasurable experience, imho.

 

[SAUS]

I like that Smash 4 stocks are drawn out and that characters can survive a really long time unless you're hit with a big, flashy unsafe move (Most of the time) , because I think it makes it feel much more like you WORKED for that kill. You did it! You hit them with your big powerful attack and killed them off the top! Or, you spiked them! Nice!

And there's no like, Bairing an opponent offstage and then just grabbing the ledge so that they fall to their death. I always hated that.

But really, a big part of Smash 4 is knowing what your kill options are. You have to know, as Pit, that you can do any Smash at 115% and they'll die, and also that your Upperdash Arm kills at around 120%, and that your forward throw kills at the ledge at like 100%, AND that you can chase with a Fair, Bair, or Dair to kill of the side or bottom.

It's the same for these numbers in melee, but you also have to know when certain things can combo. You have to know when your jab will lead to a kill move. On top of that, there are still interesting aspects like crouch cancelling. Even at 150%, Peach can crouch cancel and then down smash to punish a jab from fox (who is trying to do jab up-smash). Damage in melee makes you more vulnerable. It doesn't just mean you are ready to die to a kill move, it means that tons and tons of new, niche options open up. Your character is actually straight up worse at high damage, not just "one strong hit away". Overall, there are probably way more numbers you have to know in melee than in smash 4.

Sometimes you get baired off stage and then they hog the edge and you die. This usually would result from bad DI or getting baired from right at the edge of the stage. Well, I guess you could also just be at really high damage. In any case, the kill required things to happen that the hit player could have prevented beforehand (don't let them hit you with a medium-strength move right at the edge while at high damage or DI better or don't get outplayed (be better at the game)). Damage in melee is significant because it actually means something more than just how close they are to dying. This is why I much prefer the smash bros damage system over traditional fighting games' health bars where you suddenly just die to a jab in the end (not that I dislike their system, I just think the smash system is cooler). I feel like smash 4 uses the system in a way that is closer to a traditional fighting game, but you have to land a raw super to kill them or something (obviously it isn't the same, I just feel it is moved more towards this sort of thing compared to where melee is at).

Another thing about getting combod and killed at low damage is that it allows for HUGE plays and critical errors or brilliant reads / plays. You could die at 20 because you made a fatal error and your opponent read you or something. The severity of a punish is dictated by both players, and it can range from just a single hit out of neutral all the way to someone dying.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

You raise some good points.

What are your opinions on the new shielding mechanics with low stun and replenish fast? To me, this is even worse than the ledge trumping.

I agree that planking / endlessly refreshing invincibility a la m2k is pretty boring and lame.

I don't see why casuals hate edgehogging so much, it was even a point bonus in melee, you were literally rewarded with points for doing an edgehog (I think the game referred to it as edgehogging as well?)

I forget what it is called but I think it was in Melee as a bonus.

Regardless, casuals hate it a lot no matter the game. And to give the newer games credit, they listen intently on big changes the vocal majority want.

They think it is a lame way to die, spike? No problem. Hit hard and died? No problem. Edge hogged? Now you crossed the line.

Then add on planking, not just brawl this is an issue. Jiggly puff plays in Melee, a Canadian one did this at evo last year, abused the ledge to camp out games. Add in Shiek ledge stalling, since she is only vulnerable for 1 frame, and it makes hogging her risky.

I get why they changed if, Metaknights planking was cancer in brawl. It added more incentive to fix it. Now it is harder, but still skillful. Setting up frame traps from a trump, the edgeguarding is still there with an opponent to have some counter play to get back.

There is still skill to doing it, it's just not as free as Melee is when you end up off stage.

I like that shields break easier/get poked more often. There is no more shield damage debuff from Melee and Brawl.

I think shied stun is fine, kinda wish there was a tad more but it's good. What I do like is how smash 4 buffed empty short hops. If you shield and don't get hit, it takes a long time to drop your shield, empty hop>grab or Empty hop>step back>smash. A lot more mind games with it and it has done wonders for me.

Shiekd's replenishing I kinda have a problem with, that is Too fast, but I guess without it projectiles characters would be pretty bad lol.

 

[Bobojack]

If you cant do anything about ledgestalling, you are bad. Pivot edgehog beats it all and you can bait them to try to gimp you. There isnt a 100% safe ledgecampingmethod in the game and thats why you dont see it in high level play that often. (M2k isnt abusing it and if, he does it until he gets stagecontroll from the opponent)

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

If you cant do anything about ledgestalling, you are bad. Pivot edgehog beats it all and you can bait them to try to gimp you. There isnt a 100% safe ledgecampingmethod in the game and thats why you dont see it in high level play that often. (M2k isnt abusing it and if, he does it until he gets stagecontroll from the opponent)

So you can safely and reliably punish someone that is vulnerable for a single frame and can consistently do it?

Please share me your video secrets. Since you nailed the only reason he gets off, people let him get off for free.

If Jiggs is that free as well, go for it.

 

[Bobojack]

What?! Even CFs ledgestall is completely invincible but shieks has a hitbox. Yes, I can do it consistently but I dont have any recordings because there isnt such a big scene where I live. Also the biggest tool against ledgestalling is to pretend stealing the ledge (what would most of the time lead into death/a big punish) so the opponent tries to prevent you doing that. A jiggs cant react to you either attacking, taking the ledge or doublejumping. You just arent allowed to be impacient but act at the right moment and dont be too obvious and risky doing it.

 

[Kadano]

So you can safely and reliably punish someone that is vulnerable for a single frame and can consistently do it?

Please share me your video secrets.

http://smashboards.com/threads/kadano’s-perfect-marth-class—advanced-frame-data-application.337035/

Search for “latest”.

 

[Squire]

Is there something the Melee scene is afraid of? Do you think Smash 4 might overtake Melee popularity? Or tournament game spots will put in Smash 4 instead of Melee? Are you afraid that Smash 4 will kill the Melee scene?

I'm about as intimidated by Smash 4 taking Melee's spot as I am about Crash Bandicoot taking Melee's spot.

 

[InfinityAlex]

tl;dr, Melee snobs are old men who are scared of change. <3

 

[Squire]

No, to be realistic, the reason I don't like sm4sh isn't because I'm afraid that it's "THE NEW BIG THING AND IT'LL MAKE PEOPLE FORGET ABOUT POOR MELEE"

It's that Brawl was a huge disappointment for Melee fans who wanted to continue the trend they were on of making the smash series respected competitively, so we all had high hopes that Sakurai would listen to the fan base and make Sm4sh more competitive. And it let us down. It wasn't the game we wanted or expected. It was a party game with wacky randomness and a fairly low skill ceiling, in relation to Melee. That's not me bragging saying "we melee players are the most skilled", there's just less of a steep learning curve with sm4sh. There is. Sorry.

I can't speak for everyone, but personally I don't care about the sm4sh competitive scene. I don't hate it, I don't love it, I don't pay attention to it. I play sm4sh casually with some friends who don't care one way or the other about competitive gaming. It's fun. But it's not the game I wanted it to be, so I don't like it being compared to Melee just because it falls under the same franchise umbrella.

I don't hate sm4sh players, despite how much they love to complain about being hated. If I'm making fun of you for playing sm4sh, it's good natured ribbing, not a personal attack.

EDIT:

tl;dr, Melee snobs are old men who are scared of change. <3

If change in the series means we move toward a more boring and bland style of competitive gaming with low risk/reward, no hype, and a casual learning curve, then yes, I am scared of change.

 

[kingPiano]

tl;dr, Melee snobs are old men who are scared of change. <3

Or perhaps they are wise enough to realize that Sm4sh is about as deep as Angry Birds.

.

 

[InfinityAlex]

If change in the series means we move toward a more boring and bland style of competitive gaming with low risk/reward, no hype, and a casual learning curve, then yes, I am scared of change.

>No hype.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2HEeP4HUVM

 

[Pwii]

Honestly though, I don't like Melee because of all the techs they had going on. To succeed in matches against people who actually knew what they were doing, you'd need to play in the most convoluted way (ie, wavedashing) which, imo, makes the game feel much less fun. The reason I don't like Melee is the reason I can't get into Street Fighter; there's way too much to remember and it's too easy to lose. In my experience with SF4 Ultra, it doesn't take a lot to give your opponent the slightest opening, allowing them to knock you to Timbuktu and back. It's not nearly as bad in Melee, but it's just really unforgiving. I used to love Brawl a ton, but in retrospect I do see and agree with the reasons why it's regarded as largely inferior to Melee, even for casuals. For me, Smash 4 is the perfect balance. It is more forgiving than Melee, faster than Brawl and has easy to learn and execute techs, making for a much more pleasurable experience, imho.

This is not true. I've personally been beaten by players who had much worse tech than I in the past. I've seen it happen to other people. Do you want to know why no-tech players usually lose to players who have tech? Because if you have tech it means you actually give enough of a **** about the game to put a lot of time into it. It means you practice, and that you're trying to be good. But all scrubs see is how limitless the game is, and tell themselves "I'll never be that good, so I might as well ***** about it on the internet and play a game that's more shallow."

No one can challenge Zero in Sm4sh. I think he lost like 1 game at Aftershock. It's because he put in TIME into the game. He loved it, and put in a lot of effort into being the best. Scrubs will pick up Sm4sh, thinking if they just play some wifi that they'll be able to take Apex, but you're kidding yourself if you don't think it takes insane amounts of time and dedication to be that good.

The reason bad people hate Melee tech is because it illustrates just how little time they put into the game compared to the people who beat them. Anyone who realizes how much effort it takes to be good competitively isn't intimidated by tech skill, because it does not take that much time to get it down compared to the total time you'd need to compete.

No it's not.

That varies a lot depending on the game.

Competition is unforgiving. The only time you won't be punished for messing up in any 2d fighter is if your opponent also messes up. I don't really see what you're trying to say here, give me an example.

 

[kingPiano]

>No hype.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2HEeP4HUVM

This was one of the first matches that was referenced in this thread as a point against Sm4sh lol. It's the prime example of forced hype the ending was a time out.....and the crowd was booing....



.

 

[InfinityAlex]

Well some of us simply don't have the time to put in that practice. Many, many people come to Smash just to have fun and if a few Melee diehards consider everything else inferior simply because they aren't as mechanically deep, well that's just a flawed philosophy. You have no right to be angered that later instalments moved away from Melee's over complicated cluster**** of techs because Sakurai never wanted to created a game for high level tournaments in the first place. In this regard, one could consider Smash 4 to actually be the best in the series due to its ability to cater sufficiently to both sides of the fan base. What many Melee fans and competitive players fail to see is that it's not all about the tournaments, and to be honest I'd say it'd be selfish to think otherwise.

 

[InfinityAlex]

This was one of the first matches that was referenced in this thread as a point against Sm4sh lol. It's the prime example of forced hype the ending was a time out.....and the crowd was booing....
.

Yes, but only after massive hype all the way through the match. The commentators themselves were so hyped they actually lost track of the time.

 

[Pwii]

Well some of us simply don't have the time to put in that practice. Many, many people come to Smash just to have fun and if a few Melee diehards consider everything else inferior simply because they aren't as mechanically deep, well that's just a flawed philosophy. You have no right to be angered that later instalments moved away from Melee's over complicated cluster**** of techs because Sakurai never wanted to created a game for high level tournaments in the first place. In this regard, one could consider Smash 4 to actually be the best in the series due to its ability to cater sufficiently to both sides of the fan base. What many Melee fans and competitive players fail to see is that it's not all about the tournaments, and to be honest I'd say it'd be selfish to think otherwise.

1. I'm pretty sure you're just ****ing with people at this point.
2. If you don't have the time to get good then competition is not for you.

Yes, but only after massive hype all the way through the match. The commentators themselves were so hyped they actually lost track of the time.

That was the most ****ty commentating I've ever seen. If it was Melee the commentators would be complaining, not sucking Nintendo's **** to ensure their sponsorship next year.

 

[Squire]

>No hype.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2HEeP4HUVM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9QdMmIZCQk .... *cough*

 

[InfinityAlex]

You have no idea how little excitement I felt watching this. This match literally consisted of people sliding about tossing out aerials. Abadango vs Dabuz has so much more to see. As well as this, you could actually tell what was going on in the Apex Sm4sh match.

 

[kingPiano]

You have no idea how little excitement I felt watching this. This match literally consisted of people sliding about tossing out aerials. Abadango vs Dabuz has so much more to see. As well as this, you could actually tell what was going on in the Apex Sm4sh match.

Well there is the root of the problem I guess.

We Melee players and fans are like Super Saiyans so we can keep up with everything just fine, you are like the innocent bystanders that only see booms and flashes in the far distance.

If that's the case then there is no reason to even further discuss. It's Checkers vs Chess, to each their own.

perhaps you can keep up with this hype though:

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Competition is unforgiving. The only time you won't be punished for messing up in any 2d fighter is if your opponent also messes up. I don't really see what you're trying to say here, give me an example.

game A, I can make 20 mistakes before I lose. still competitive.

game b, I can make 1 mistake before I lose, still competitive.

edit: other example, I can make 1 mistake again Ice Climbers or I lose a stock to wobbling, I can make 6 to peach before she takes a stock.

 

[Roukiske]

Aw geez what happened to the thread here. Quit with the generalizations guys. I honestly don't think anyone here is hating on anyone who just wants to play a game casually or competitively. Try not getting so defensive when someone express a flaw or something...

Anyways from what I'm reading here... getting good at a game takes time. Even getting good at Sm4sh. Some games are easier to pick up competitively and some aren't. You shouldn't knock a game for being too hard, that's sort of a cheap excuse to not want to play a game. If its fun for you who cares? I like seeing skill differences in games, because it's fun to see how much I progress. If you're playing the game for fun however, then just have fun with it. Try to get good if you want, but you know you gotta realize that its no walk in the park otherwise you yourself can be making that mad EVO money right?

Hype happens in all sorts of games in different forms. Because of the fast nature of Melee it of course generates a lot more hype. Not saying that video was the best example of hype, but I think there are better ones out there. Infact, this is a good example of what I said about sniping for moves. In the matches, the number of reads you must do to take a stock are just a little too much for my preference. There was a lot of high % neutral resets for one player just to take 1 stock (though it was because of the MU). They're different kinds of hype though, and if you like it then you like it. Also I don't think any hype is real if the commentators have to hype it for you.

I think this is a good example of some exciting Sm4sh play: www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpU6zwL3hu0
I mean you could say the MU's made for exciting play and that could be unfair for Sm4sh since there are a lot of long range zoning characters in the game, so to some it won't look flashy depending on the opponents. I do enjoy this video though, not because of the gimps or combos (though they were sort of there along with SD's :[ ), but because of its pace which my personal preference happens to be fast paced games and I think it shows a little bit of capability in the game. But you know, not all Sm4sh games are like this. Certainly not all Melee games are like this, most of them are though and that's why I personally love it.

game A, I can make 20 mistakes before I lose. still competitive.

game b, I can make 1 mistake before I lose, still competitive.

edit: other example, I can make 1 mistake again Ice Climbers or I lose a stock to wobbling, I can make 6 to peach before she takes a stock.

Ah you said this while I was typing this long of a post I'm writing. That is most certainly 100% true. Depends on what you like. Plenty of games are like Game A, plenty of games are like Game B, plenty people play both kinds of games. Though I will say some games are easier to make mistakes so if you're playing Game B then get ready to eat it, but losing is a big part of getting better.

 

[Pwii]

game A, I can make 20 mistakes before I lose. still competitive.

game b, I can make 1 mistake before I lose, still competitive.

edit: other example, I can make 1 mistake again Ice Climbers or I lose a stock to wobbling, I can make 6 to peach before she takes a stock.

I understand what you're saying, but that's not quite what I meant. I meant in relation to other players. If you're sloppy and make mistakes, your opponent is going to win unless they make equal or more mistakes. In chess, if you take a pawn advantage, you can ride that advantage to the end assuming you don't make a mistake. It's just one pawn, but it will mean the game unless your opponent makes a mistake.

What I said was that at any competitive level, any sort of mistake is all it takes to lose. This isn't playing a 1-player game where you have 20 hit points, it's a tug of war where any mistake means you lose advantage until your opponent makes a mistake. Mistakes are measured against your opponent's skill, not some arbitrary value.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I understand what you're saying, but that's not quite what I meant. I meant in relation to other players. If you're sloppy and make mistakes, your opponent is going to win unless they make equal or more mistakes. In chess, if you take a pawn advantage, you can ride that advantage to the end assuming you don't make a mistake. It's just one pawn, but it will mean the game unless your opponent makes a mistake.

What I said was that at any competitive level, any sort of mistake is all it takes to lose. This isn't playing a 1-player game where you have 20 hit points, it's a tug of war where any mistake means you lose advantage until your opponent makes a mistake. Mistakes are measured against your opponent's skill, not some arbitrary value.

I get what you mean just that I didn't like the idea of, less room for error = more competitive.

I do not think that is true at all given more so when I look at mobas.

 

[Squire]

You have no idea how little excitement I felt watching this. This match literally consisted of people sliding about tossing out aerials. Abadango vs Dabuz has so much more to see. As well as this, you could actually tell what was going on in the Apex Sm4sh match.

I'm at a loss for how to respond to this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uaNu2SAhnl4

Try that.

https://youtu.be/_vi7XlSpv4Y?t=5m1s

Or that.

people sliding about

Ol' Slip N' Slide Smash Bros

Smash On Ice

Slick Sakurai's Slidin' Smash

 

[kingPiano]

I'm at a loss for how to respond to this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uaNu2SAhnl4

Try that.

https://youtu.be/_vi7XlSpv4Y?t=5m1s

Or that.

Yea but he already said he had trouble following two huge Ganondorfs, I don't think any Melee set will make him see the magic. Not even.....WOMBO COMBO!

 

[Squire]

That's probably true, but I figured I'd try again. Was making sure to not have any videos of pro Luigi players. They're always smash slidin' that slippery slope to spleen slap station.

 

[Spak]

If this one doesn't get him hype for Melee, very few things will:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITyOLHilZtM

 

[Squire]

If this one doesn't get him hype for Melee, very few things will:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITyOLHilZtM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfcueookXUY

All that needs to be said.

 

[_A1]

@ #HBC | Red Ryu You should bother with the video. It'll definitely entertain you(unless you hate styling or something) even if it doesn't prove anything. While a lot of Melee combos are technically escapable, they work because there's some sort of DI trap and weak to strong hitbox usage and stuff like that. Which you don't see in Smash 4, hence another reason the combo game is dull.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

@ #HBC | Red Ryu You should bother with the video. It'll definitely entertain you(unless you hate styling or something) even if it doesn't prove anything. While a lot of Melee combos are technically escapable, they work because there's some sort of DI trap and weak to strong hitbox usage and stuff like that. Which you don't see in Smash 4, hence another reason the combo game is dull.

hmm, ok link it.

I will look at it.

edit: from a smash 4/melee player.

 

[Dolla Pills]

Maybe the problem with smash 4 is that people get hyped over three hit combos

 

[_A1]

hmm, ok link it.

I will look at it.

edit: from a smash 4/melee player.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OuiBt08DfPw (sorry if music sucks)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwyWLqKckcs (sorry it got muted lol)

Link me a Smash 4 highlight reel or something and I'll see if I like it.