Why should I believe in God?

[snex]

It seems like most of the people that became atheist/agnostic were raised catholic. Just pointing that out...for no reason at all.

thats because as goofy as catholics are, they encourage education (at least in the countries not filled with poor people). and education kills religion.

 

[Crimson King]

Knowledge is the enemy of faith.

 

[RDK]

Like Snex said--that's the good thing about science. Unlike religion, it doesn't require faith, it just requires you to see it for yourself.

 

[Kur]

The one thing my father ever did for me (that was actually a good thing) was not let my mom baptize me when I was born. He told her to let me grow up and choose my own religion.

Well at about 4 years old, my grandmother decided it was about time I went to church. I knew of god, and what he was supposed to be and all that, and really at that age church was just a really long boring thing we had to do on sunday. I wasn't even paying attention to what the priest was saying.

By the time I was 5 I began to listen to the priest more and started to read the bible (I could read at a 9th grade level when I was 5) and thought some of the stories were kind of cool. Lots of death and destruction, blood, ****, murder, hellfire, etc. I accepted it all as true simply because people who were older than me told me it was true. (children have a biological need to do this)

I began to question some of the bible stories when I was about 7. I remember asking where all the water went after the global flood, and how did noah fit all those animals and food on the ark and how did he have time to shovel all the poop? I actually did think of that at that age because at the time I lived on a small (5 acre) farm and had to shovel animal crap every weekend. My mom and grandmother couldn't answer me. I asked the priest and he just laughed, patted my head and told me to run along and play.

By the time I was 8 I was seriously doubting everything in the bible. None of it made any sense. Nobody would give me an answer when I asked about it either.

My pet gerbil died around this time and I asked the priest if it would go to heaven. Of course he told me no, animals don't have souls and so can not go to heaven, they simply stop existing. And I began to wonder about that. I began to wonder what a soul actually is and why if an animal can just stop existing, why couldn't a human? Around this time they were just beginning or just finished the genome project and I had heard how closely we are related to chimps and other great apes. So this got me wondering some more about whether heaven even exists or not.

Before my 9th birthday I was having a really hard time believing in god. I still did, but I was forcing it. I constantly asked for a sign, anything that said "Hey, this is god and I exist" Never got an answer.

When I turned 12 my mom enrolled me in classes and bible study and whatnot so I could be baptized and all that junk. By now I was technically agnostic but more atheist than anything. Of course this was only 1992 so there wasn't an internet and I had never heard of atheism, agnosticism, or anything other than christianity, catholicism, and 'the jews'. I had no idea it was even possible to not believe in god and I thought I was the only one.

Then shortly after I was baptized, during one of those bible classes, the new young priest came walking in to take over the class. He was kind of fun, fairly young, and everybody liked him. When one of the older students, (maybe 16 or 17) asked him when it was ok to have sex, he gave the usual answer of 'after marriage, etc' but he added, "And only if you are doing it to have a baby" when the kid asked "Why? We can wear condoms and not get pregnant right?" The priests answer was "condoms are against our religion. If you are going to have sex, it is a sin to wear a condom or use other birth control" when the kid asked about STDs (AIDS to be specific) the priests answer was "You just have to trust god to protect you"

I was pissed. By this time I already knew how babies were made and I knew about how the male recycles sperm if he doesn't use it, so the 'every sperm is sacred' argument wasn't holding up. And this jerk had just told 25 young boys, 11-17 years old, to trust god not to give you an STD and to never use birth control and they all nodded along like good little sheep. I was the only one who questioned him and adamantly refused to let the subject go until he came to reason, but he wouldn't. He called my mom and told her to come get me because I was "becoming uncontrollable"

And that was when I realized that religion was not a harmless fairytale. Religion was more about using fear for the purposes of control and about this time I began studying more about other religions and found the same thing to be true in all of them.

By the time I was 12 and a half I was an atheist. Not because my life sucked (which it did but that had nothing to do with it) or because of some traumatic experience, or crisis of faith. It was simply because I stopped to think about it. Because a 7 year old could ask a simple question that nobody could answer. Because of my want and need to learn and my own logic and common sense. The very idea of a magic sky daddy was just silly. Nowhere else was there any magic or mystical powers, yet I was supposed to believe in an invisible world in the clouds with flying people and some kind of burning dungeon under the ground with demons and pitch forks?

When I got the internet in 1998 I began doing a lot more research, looking for any evidence that some religion somewhere was right, but I couldn't find anything. At the time I was desperate to believe in god because the only thing I was afraid of was dying and not existing anymore. I knew it wouldn't hurt, and once I was dead I wouldn't care anymore, but I just don't want to miss anything. I want to live forever and see everything that happens. Imagine the wonder a person would experience watching the world change from bronze age to industrial revolution. Imagine what I could experience in another 100 or 200 years.

Lately I have come to not worry about it so much and realize that death is just part of life. But it used to keep me up at night almost in tears. Even now I feel a twinge of sorrow knowing I won't be there when humans figure out a way to travel to distant stars, or meet an alien species, or invent AI and lifelike sex robots. But I am not terrified of going to hell anymore. So yeah..

So that's me. Atheist for the past 16 years and no worse for it. Most people call me straight edge, or old fashioned. I don't believe in 'sex after marriage' but I do believe it should only be with somebody you love. I don't drink or smoke. I don't even drink coffee, energy drinks, or nyquill. When I had to go to the hospital for a kidney infection, which is supposed to be the most painful thing a man can go through (just above kidney stones) I refused the morphine.

I don't go out partying or causing trouble. I obey laws and respect people. I go out of my way to help others if I can. None of this because of my former religion upbringing, but because I believe these values lead to a better society overall.

I also think I am one of maybe 7 conservative atheists in the entire world.

 

[Crimson King]

I'm actually still surprised that most Libertarians aren't at least deist, but the idea behind it is believe whatever you want as long as it doesn't interfere with anyone else's beliefs.

A lot of people automatically assume that since I don't believe in a god I am pro-choice or help your fellow man bull****, but I don't buy that. My stance on abortion is rather complicated, and I believe we have the right to the fruits of our labors. I am not paying for some ******* to sit at home all day and go to school for free, while I have to work. But, with each year, we get closer and closer towards a socialist society, there isn't much else to do but wait for that to collapse.

Kur: I had no idea you were almost 30.

 

[Amide]

@Kur

After reading your posts Kur, I thought you were religious. I was wrong. I enjoyed the story especially the part about the priest saying 'condoms are against religion.' Some people are nuts.

@Crimson King

When I was atheist CK, I still thought abortion was wrong. I'm not really religious (never been to church >__>) and I have never seen an anti abortion Bible passage. And believe me, the only kind of person more annoying than the religious nut, is the no morals atheist. I think you have morals though.

 

[blazedaces]

Kur: I had no idea you were almost 30.

If he was 12 in 1992 he'd be 24 right now... but still... wow. I also did not expect that. No offense...

-blazed

 

[Kur]

Kur: I had no idea you were almost 30.

lol

funny guy..

If he was 12 in 1992 he'd be 24 right now... but still... wow. I also did not expect that. No offense...

-blazed

You might want to break out a calculator about now.

I was born in 1980.

In 1992 I was 12.

1992 was 16 years ago.

12+16=28.

I am 28 years old.




I understand why people think I may be younger than I really am. It is because (most) people tend to type on the internet using bigger, fancier words than they do when just speaking aloud to somebody. While typing, you have more time to think of those more intelligent sounding words than you do when talking. It makes a 15 year old sound 20 and a 20 year old sound 30. After over a decade of this, most people have gotten used to it.

I make a point not to do that. I type exactly how I talk.




Just how old did you think I was anyway?

 

[Aesir]

I thought you were like 21 or something. >_>

 

[blazedaces]

You might want to break out a calculator about now.

I was born in 1980.

In 1992 I was 12.

1992 was 16 years ago.

12+16=28.

I am 28 years old.

Wow. ****. I knew I was tired when I posted that, but geeze.

Just how old did you think I was anyway?

Most people on the forums are kids... and I just assumed you were one as well.

-blazed

 

[Crimson King]

The average poster is between 16-18. I just assume everyone is until I am told otherwise.

 

[chucklesXcore]

Well I hope this thread isn't too old to be bringing back up. This seems a lot more lighthearted and nicer way to express my belief without fear of a slew of criticism and getting into a heated debate.

My story I feel is a little more unique because I've had many times of self doubt much similar to that of an atheist, but not quite.


So I was raised Catholic much like a few of the people here. Being young, I was simple minded and was taught to "love god unconditionally". At this point in my life, I was young and naive. I had what most would call "blind faith" I read my bible because I felt I was doing the right thing and doing the right thing made me feel better about myself. I was a little kid and I had someone to look up to and make proud, which is what a lot of kids take joy in doing. Ever see a kid at the grocery store just begging there mom to let them help carry their groceries? I have and on many occasions. The point of that is this: as a kid, you want to feel like your doing something that helps people. And sharing God with people and being a "good little boy" makes you feel great. At least for me it did. I was definitely not living the way I should have. As I got older I grew tiresome of how boring and uneventful both church, class after was. It was to the point where it was the same re-hashed sermons every time at our church. If it was May 23rd you knew what they were going to be talking about because it would be the same thing they talked about last year. No exaggeration because I once called it on my mom. I was like watch, this will be about ______. And sure enough it was. This was disheartening me and led to me being only a casual believer. I neither cared if I truly believed or what would happen. I just honestly was care free. I did what I wanted without fear of consequence. I may have said "I believe in God" but I truly didn't. In elementary school, I was a steadfast believer and the "nice guy" that no one liked being around. I was a goody two shoes to the max. Afraid to swear, always telling people that they should do something else because following God is the only way...blah blah blah. You get the picture. A religious snob in a way, but I was nice about it....very nice. And I was nice to everyone. Unfortunately for me, nobody liked a goody two shoes who didn't want to take risk so I got the daylights beat out of me everyday. I had to go home crying every day because I would rather read my bible then tease some dorky kids. (not that exact reason everyday, but you know what I mean) This led to me feeling very excluded and solitary. Even with a loving family, I felt alone. My faith was all that I really had to turn to, but since I was blind I wasn't really feeling anything. I wasn't trying to really feel God, I just expected him to make me feel better. And of course, it didn't work. I always felt worthless. So I got in an attitude of "F*ck god" entering junior high. Let's face it, everyone wants friends. And I, having none, caved into the pressure and did what I had to. However, this is both bad and good for me in my life. I may not be as spiritually sound as I was, but I was no longer blind. I was thinking on my own. I was doing what I really wanted to with my life. I had some control over what I did and what I believed. I wasn't afraid to slip up and swear a little. I wasn't afraid to poke fun at my friends if it was a good joke. People actually started to like being around me because I wasn't so uptight. Having friends felt good. So all the way up until high school I pretty much lived my life as in "I believe in God, but whatever.". My freshman year, my catholic church pulled what I believed was the final "stunt" for our family. They always asked for donations at least 3 times a church. Anyone who is catholic knows about the "guilt baskets" and if the person next to you put in 20 bucks, even if you were poor and had nothing left but that 20 bucks to hold you over for the next few days till you got paid...your mom and dad definitely put it in. It was a huge circle of Guilt and everyone was coerced into putting money in each time. Was multiple times really necessary? In my opinion, no. definitely not. But THIS itself is not the stunt. We were told they were trying so hard to raise money because the church was in a disgusting state and needed to be upgraded. (not the word I want, but whatever.) So we raised well over 200,000 dollars. WOW right? I mean thats a ton of money, but they were supposed to do a lot. Significantly remodel the church to be a little more modernized, fix the sidewalks, parking lot, the place where Sunday school was held would be MUCH bigger and easier to teach in, etc.

You know what they did? They bought land directly behind the church where an elementary school(that was direly needed for the community) was being built....and built basically a mini mansion for the church leaders. Aka, the priests and their henchmen as I call them. This disgusted not only my family, but me to the fullest extent. My mom was still going to go, but I convinced her that it was BS and we are not going there anymore. That was the first day my faith began slipping. I let hypocrites lead me to believe that God was flawed. And for the first time ever though, I was aware that religion is very flawed. Took me a long time, but I found out a lot of really made me uncomfortable.

So we switched to Christianity for the time being because it was less stressful and they didn't ask for donations. It seemed a temporary compromise. During this time, I started to become more and more aware of hypocrites and how no one could back up the idea of a God. The amount of non-believers was getting alarmingly high from what I had been used to. In high school, a vast majority of people were Atheist. I despised them. Not for their beliefs, but for their ignorance. All of them had chosen ultimately to not believe because Christians were snobby about their views. "Something bad happened to me with religion so I am not going to believe". I felt that was a ridiculous reason to not believe, but then I asked myself.

Why do I believe myself?

And then I came to one very depressing answer, I don't have a reason. I felt like I had been living a lie. But I pushed it under the rug. I doubted there could be a God due to logic, fallacies, hypocrisy(sp?), inconsistencies, and the main ultimate reason was I felt no comfort in the idea of a God. When I prayed, I felt nothing. When something bad happened, I asked myself "why would got let this happen?" So for about 3 years, I went without going to a church. I felt confident that whatever happened will happened. It was a safe view. "there could be a god and if there isn't...does it really matter?". I jumped up and down. Almost become atheist at one point because of all the terrible things going on in my life.

Then one day, I met my best friend, who was a believer, but only on her own terms. She dazzled me with her amount of knowledge about religion. Although, she wasn't enough to make me believe, she asked me why I don't have confidence in the idea of their being a God. And I told her "God has never been there for me" and she said something I did not expect "Who said God has to be there for you every time you ask him?" I was shocked to say the least. This went against a lot of the teachings of almost every religion. They almost RELY on you feeling something every time you pray. And she said "When god isn't talking back, he's listening" And that sounded almost ridiculous to me as well. I told her I was very confused and still had many doubts. She told me "no duh charles, we all do" and I said "what exactly am I supposed to do then" and she answered very honestly and openly "find out for yourself". So I did. I looked into things on my own and found no conclusive evidence of their NOT being a God, but I did conclude one thing and that was there is no correct religion because they all contradict each other. I also found the churches are all seemingly corrupt for the most part and teach the teachings with a vast amount of bias. So I did the last thing I felt I could while being stuck in the middle. I attempted to pray, but for the first time in my life I did it with an open heart. I asked if there was a God and if he was there, to give me some strength to decide what to do with my life. And what I felt was so empowering I felt it had to be a God. I went from a severe depression to extreme happiness within 2 days. Was this because I was trying a little too hard? Maybe. Was this god? Maybe, Maybe not. I won't know, but one thing is for sure. I felt something very powerful that day. I felt a comfort and spiritual power within me that no one could take away. I no longer had to follow by guidelines, I could believe in God anyway I wanted and believe whatever I wanted because I had this spiritual feeling to guide me. Whatever was right for me, was going to be right for me. Despite anything thrown at me, I had this empowering feeling and still have it. This is why I believe for the time being. Things could change in the future, but for now this feeling to me is undeniable and I am looking into it. I want to become much more knowledgeable on if there is a God and how I can present that to anyone who tries to shoot me down. For now though, I try to be as open minded as possible because looking back on my life, not being open minded has not been the best approach...I could very well be a catholic still. I may not know a lot, but I do know that I feel there is A GOD out there somewhere. Note use of the word "feel". I can never and probably will never know for certain if there is a God, but I do feel one for the time being.



And thats my story! sorry for posting such a long and boring story, but I felt this was a good place to feel better again about this whole topic since the last topic I posted in was very heated. I left a bit depressed at the realization I need more knowledge about my beliefs. I also apologize if this thread is too old.

 

[Firus]

These stories were really interesting reads. Unfortunately, mine's not entirely interesting nor am I really in a certain place right now, but I'll try to tell what I can anyways.

Let me start off with my parents' religious backgrounds. My mother went to a Catholic School and grew up in a regularly religious home, and my father was brought up in a very religious home, with his father being a Baptist Priest.

I was brought up in a regularly religous, Catholic home. We went to church every Sunday, but nothing big. I was pretty much brought up under the impression that religion was fact. I'm not sure if my parents actually taught me that or I just assumed it. At a pretty young age, my family changed to an Episcopal Church. There was a Saturday Night service which we went to most of the time, rather than the regular Sunday service. Honestly, I never really enjoyed church that much when we were there. I always thought it was bizarre -- what's the point of going to a church for an hour every morning to have things preached to you, singing songs, etc.? Why does God care about me going to church? Wouldn't it be better for me to praise him on my own time, personally than to go to church? I never actually did it, but the thought occurred to me and I was a little confused by why that would matter.

When I was in third grade, we moved mid-year. Obviously we had to leave our church, and we intended to find another church. We never actually did, and so I was left for years to do religion on my own time. I prayed occasionally for a shallow thing or two, but really never did much in the way of religion. I sort of accepted that it was fact as I had been taught because I never questioned it.

But then, I started doing so. As I said, my father was brought up in a very religious, Baptist home. I never really heard much from my Grandfather (father's side) before he died. He was a quiet person, and since he lived a thousand or so miles away I rarely saw him. My Grandmother (again, father's side) however was (and is) much more outspoken. Also, all of my Aunts and Uncles save for one are very religious. I've always sort of resented that side of the family for how religious they were and how much they seemed to look down on people of other religions. This was especially visible with my Grandmother's behavior towards my Mom. She wasn't really mean, but every so often there was a degrading remark towards Catholics and naturally, I was offended by this.

But ultimately, I still didn't actually question religion until, like a few others, I started visiting the Debate Hall. I saw the "How Can Anyone Believe in God?" thread and started reading it with the skepticisim that I would naturally have, thinking that religion must be true. But I saw very valid arguments against religion and I tried to combat them in my head and I...I couldn't. I wanted to believe there's a God, but who says there is one? This is ultimately what finally made me realize that I really didn't believe in a religion. I never liked Church, I never got into religion, and then I stopped going to Church and never gave religion a second thought. I decided to stop following things just because my parents had taught me it and move onto being realistic. That's the kind of person I am.

I've not been to church since the last time before I moved. Honestly, I'm not sure if my opinions on church would change if I went back now -- at such a young age, I didn't really think much on my own, and wouldn't question religion. I can't imagine I'd feel any different now. I'm honestly not sure where I'd place myself religiously. I suppose I'd be an Atheist, as I don't follow any religion, but I'm just confused a little at the moment.


It may be a little unorganized, but I tried telling it as best as possible. There's not much to it, mostly two things making me realize that religion just doesn't make sense; there are religious people that are simply not accepting of other's opinions, and there aren't any logical arguments to back them up.

 

[yossarian22]

Hrmm... my story is not interesting at all, but I can't sleep so oh well.

I suppose I am fairly unique in that I was raised in a mildly religious Christian environment, but I never really believed in any of it. I always found the question of a deity somewhat... irrelevant to my life so I didn't figure that there was a point in believing it. I wasn't forced to go to read the bible or anything really. It was a fairly innocuous childhood. I only began wondering about the notion of a deity when I was 14.
Everybody has some amount of scarring on the retina, but I drew the short end of the genetic stick. The retina in my left eye detached and I had the chance to sit through over half a dozen surgeries. Because I was forced to stare at the ground after each operation, I did a lot of thinking and reading. I got even unluckier and it turned out all those surgeries were for nothing, as my eye turned into a deflated sac and I lost all vision in the eye. A shame it was my good eye. According to cliche, I should have gotten bitter and turned militant atheist or become violently opposed to the notion of an omnipotent omnibenevolent creator, but I didn't. I just thought and slept mostly. That's when I began to think about. I switched between some mild forms of theism (I considered myself a pantheist for a period of time) before eventually settling down on methodological naturalism. Not a very interesting story, but there it is.

Now, why should you believe? There is not really any one reason I can say. It depends highly on your philosophy and how you view morality, causality, and a host of other things. Kantian ethics relies on a deity, as do a variety of other systems. It essentially comes down to personal preference. There is little I can say in defense of dogmatic theism. I never understood the appeal.