why ppl dont want sheik in ssbb

[blueriku]

There is ppl in here that actually get it, that fact that sheik is not broken but i will give you the reasons. basically she is able to combo extremely well most ppl find this an annoyance, but in fact the truth of this matter is ALL GOOD sheik player are always light on their feet with combos for two reasons: 1. a combo of sheik is NEVER guaranteed, and 2. if your going against a GOOD player they would know how to DI sheiks tilts, so that would make it a lot harder to K.O with sheik.

I explain the first reason, sheiks combos are never guaranteed for the fact that, you need to know exactly what move you can do at what position at what time, and at what percentage of what move should be always executed. so usually good sheik should know all this and should be 2nd nature to them.
however if your going against a horrible sheik and you get defeated (with no offense when i say this) you suck because a good smash player no matter the character so should know how DI all of sheiks moves RIGHT this make the sheik player more difficult to K.O their opponent. also you can wiggle and sex kick which to sheik players sex kicks piss us off since it can neutralize a combo, but if you really wanted sheik to be more fair the only thing i would say is fix her needles so you cant cancel a obviously more powerful projectile she should only be able to cancel normal or small projectiles and if she is still a transformation in brawl i would say make it so your forced to K.O with Zelda but in return make Zelda faster.
the only reason that Zelda suck is that she is ridiculously slow and her prioity is whatever since she is so **** slow she can easily be fixed if she was faster and can even be a stand alone character with would allow sheik to be stand alone. when i say make Zelda faster i mean fast as Peach or Link maybe even jiggs or Luigi speed. and also sheik is screwed when it comes to characters with good prioity move that hit up since sheik suck at defending herself directly below her.


OH AND FOR THE POSTERS THAT KEEP CALLING SHEIK A GUY SHEIK IS A GIRL, WOMAN A SHE SHE SHE!!!!!!!!(sorry its that when ppl call her a he it annoys me)

 

[Vali]

You couldn't be more wrong. Doctor Mario wouldn't be any easier at all, it would be the same as Sheik. Difference is, Sheik isn't a clone.

"Difference is, Sheik isn't a clone" - and therein the reason lies. Doctor Mario would still retain almost all of Mario's moves and use Mario's model just dressed up a bit in Brawl and still be a clone (because there's no way he could be an original character) which means that it'd take far less time than implementing a returning character like Sheik.

If you really think it takes as long to make a character return as it does to make a new character, your delusional. To bring her back, sure they need to redo her animations/model. Other than that, it's just balancing. I really don't think this part takes that long.

Of course it doesn't take just as long, but it takes far more time than you're giving it credit. While the moveset doesn't need to be invented (which trust me doesn't actually take that long at all to do) it is still modified from game to game. Characters as far as I'm aware don't keep exactly the same moveset from game to game and it's already been shown in a screenshot on the Dojo that Link has 1-2 completely new moves. When looking at character predictions and the overall production time, we count returning characters as a whole new character because honestly I think that inventing the moveset is negligible in time when compared to everything else that needs to happen and still applies to a returning character.

For a new character, however, they have to completely do their model from scratch. They have to completely create a moveset. And because it's a new moveset, they don't know how it can be abused as much as Sheiks, so balancing would take longer too.

..And they don't have to do a completely new model from scratch for Mario or Link or Fox? I don't think that somehow the Melee models transfer over to Brawl. Like I said movesets don't take that long to create and the major time really would go into balancing the moveset. About balancing, take less time? When compared to who? Pokemon Trainer? Your reasoning doesn't make any sense because how Sheik was in Melee shouldn't affect the balancing in Brawl (since every character should be aimed to be equal) and like I said before in the post you quoted, transformations require additional balancing. Regardless of this, every character needs to be re-evaluated and compared afterwards to every character to make sure that 1 character doesn't have a serious advantage over every other character. This applies to Sheik as much as it does to a new character, with the added "bonus" that it would take longer to balance Zelda+Sheik due to being a transformation character.

TO sum it up, Sheik deserves a spot because she would take WAY less time than a new char, she's unique. Ninjas>pirates, and for the simple fact that she was a non-clone in Melee.

He/she/it/potatoe really wouldn't, every new character would be unique too, ...is a joke reason? please? and the last isn't really a reason too. A character being in the previous game doesn't merit that character's inclusion in the next one. You could argue there's no reason to get rid of clones because they provide an alternative playing style for a character while taking hardly any time at all to implement and they were in the previous game so that there's no reason to cut them. However that is silly, because the clones in most cases don't merit returning due to their character and the time could be better used to make more unique characters rather than padding out the roster.

I think she should be a separate character this time around, but still. I don't even personally like playing as Sheik, but I do think she's cool, and unlike what you asuume, not just because of her moveset.

I said that the Sheik fanbase is of the vast majority that people only like Sheik for Sheik's moveset. That does not say that nobody actually likes Sheik and I didn't "assume" anything.

 

[SiD]

Actually, no, they don't necessarily have to do a whole new model. Obviously they did for Fox, but for Mario they very well could have just made newer/better textures and slapped them on the old models.

honestly I think that inventing the moveset is negligible in time when compared to everything else that needs to happen and still applies to a returning character.

Sure, balancing takes the longest. But already having experience with Sheik would make it easier. They can, for the most part, put the same exact moveset in there, and change certain numbers such as knockback and damage for certain moves. Trust me, this takes a lot less time than creating new moves and balancing them.

Here's my example, albeit it isn't fantastic it still works:

I was making a text based RPG for class last year. It was a continuation of the FF7 storyline, not my idea btw I had a partner. Anyway, creating different moves/spells/Final things, Limits? took a while to make sure all the characters could make it through the game easily but still being challenged. It took about a week probably. Then, as a secret code, I added in Sephiroth. But, I just changed the names of his moves from Cloud's, tweaked the Limit a little, and it was way easier.

Now, I realize it is more involved than this for Brawl, but the same principle applies. Balancing an existing moveset is much, much easier than creating and balancing a new one.

Plus, I have heard people say others deserve a chance more. For the simple fact that she would be a returning character, I don't think she could possibly take the place of another character, even from the Zelda franchise. Besides, I'd be surprised to even get a new one either way, not including a new Ganon.
For your arguments about transformations, I already stated I think she should be separate this time. It would be EXTREMELY easy to give them both a new Down B move, so that is negligible. And I'm sure the game's release date was decided with all characters in mind, so the extra maybe couple weeks it would take to add in Sheik (not counting final balancing which involves all character) is not only worth it but already factored in.



Anyway, Sheik is a beloved character by some, isn't a clone, so therefore deserves a spot. Sure, if Sakurai had a choice between returning Sheik and putting in some new cool character, I'd choose the new one. But, since I don't think there is any possibility of Sheik taking up anyone's spot, she absolutely should return.




COMPLETELY OFF TOPIC WARNING

I would just like to point out something to all the noobs out there. You see what me and Vali are doing? We're debating. We are intelligently and calmly explaining our points, not flaming eachother like madmen. Take notes.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Yes ofcoarse Sheik is a beloved character, but every character in Melee is just simply beloved. Melee is a very balanced game, and every character atleast has one pro player maining him/her. Even Pichu is beloved, so why should they take him out? Dr.Mario clearly is more populair than Mario himself, ofcoarse Sakurai won't cut him... or will he?

Anyways, they are already making character cuts. So why not modernise the whole roster while they're at it? Many characters from Melee can easly be replaced by more well known and recent characters, and I believe some of them already did got replaced, or atleast it's a possibility. For example:

Ike = Marth / Roy
Zero Suit Samus = Sheik
Wario = Mr.Game & Watch

And there are still a lot of very populair and wanted characters out there who could also easly replace some of the current characters on Melee's roster. Like:

King DeDeDe = Ice Climbers
WW Link = Young Link
Lucario = Mewtwo
Lucas = Ness
Wolf O'Donnel = Falco

All these characters could easly have the most signifant moves of the original character transfered over to their own moveset, and yet still have unique traiths. That would take less time balancing older characters out, and yet give us 8 new characters. And seeing that 8 characters also have been cut, they'd have more time developing completely new characters.

I'm not expecting such a dramical change in the roster however, but I do think there's a huge change it might be the case for Sheik, since there frankly aren't very good reasons to keep her if they could just transfer her style into a whole new character.

 

[Vali]

Actually, no, they don't necessarily have to do a whole new model. Obviously they did for Fox, but for Mario they very well could have just made newer/better textures and slapped them on the old models.

I'm not too sure on if they could import the old models but I think your argument would hold up much better with Kirby who went under a very minimal change. Mario I'm not too sure about, it depends if he's still the exact same proportions in Brawl and if using old models in a new engine is possible.

Sure, balancing takes the longest. But already having experience with Sheik would make it easier.

...They have experience with balancing Sheik? News to me!

They can, for the most part, put the same exact moveset in there, and change certain numbers such as knockback and damage for certain moves. Trust me, this takes a lot less time than creating new moves and balancing them.

Hm well in one way yes it would be easier but I also think it might be harder in regards. Sheik for example would still need a complete overhaul to be brought to Mario's level of balance and if you plan on keeping existing moves then you have to adjust for many things. For example if you reduced Sheik's knockback too much on some of his/her/it's/potatoe's killer moves then Sheik might lose the ability to KO or combo well altogether and thus rending him/her/it/potatoe pretty useless. I think a lot of people will be disappointed by Sheik in Brawl (if Sheik returns) just because it's harder to tone a good character down and still keep him good than it is to make a bad character better to an average level. For my example I choose...Kirby!

~Snip - Example~

That's all well and good and interesting but your example ultimately fails. This is because you only changed the names and tweaked the limit break and didn't tweak the entire moveset, correct? If Sephiroth's stats had been Cloud's but turned on their head (purely hypothetically here, not saying that Sheik will be the complete inverse of Melee's if included) so that his strengths were Cloud's weaknesses and vice versa, you would've had a much much more difficult time of balancing I'd say. Plus what you said is far more like implementing a clone than a returning character.

Plus, I have heard people say others deserve a chance more. For the simple fact that she would be a returning character, I don't think she could possibly take the place of another character, even from the Zelda franchise. Besides, I'd be surprised to even get a new one either way, not including a new Ganon.

Well really it's the way you're looking at it. You could either see Brawl's roster as entirely new or an updated version of Melee's. Now I like to think that it's entirely new and all of the returning characters are getting in on their merits again such as the obvious ones like Yoshi, DK etc.. In this way of thinking, no character has a character slot until you give them it. If you're thinking of it in the way of an updated Melee roster than the characters in the last game are already occupying "their" slot and so like you said couldn't take the place of another character. However I do think the second thinking makes a bit of a leap in logic since there is limited roster space and it simply stands to reason that any character that is included is taking up a character spot that could be used for another character, returning, original or new. Plus there are plenty of good candidates for the Zelda slot: Vaati, Midna(w/ Wolflink perhaps), Skull Kid, Zant...*shudders*...

For your arguments about transformations, I already stated I think she should be separate this time. It would be EXTREMELY easy to give them both a new Down B move, so that is negligible. And I'm sure the game's release date was decided with all characters in mind, so the extra maybe couple weeks it would take to add in Sheik (not counting final balancing which involves all character) is not only worth it but already factored in.

You could replace Sheik in that last section with any other character really. Plus Brawl was meant to be a launch title but was delayed and so I don't actually think the original release date as such compensated for the sheer amount of time it takes for Brawl to be made. Plus when release dates were first started being talked about I doubt the roster was anything but final.

More importantly on the subject of Sheik being a new character...really? Most people only justify his/her/it's/potatoe's inclusion in Melee because of being a transformation of Zelda and therefore "not really a character so it's ok!". I've argued this point before but I'll argue it again, it'd be incredibly easy for Sheik's moveset to be updated and subsequently tweaked for another more popular character. For all we know, ZSamus is Sheik but made weaker and given a few unique moves. That may not solve all the problems for the actual Sheik fans out there and I doubt that people will want to play a weak Sheik too much, but the limited option of playing ZSamus would still be there.

Anyway, Sheik is a beloved character by some, isn't a clone, so therefore deserves a spot. Sure, if Sakurai had a choice between returning Sheik and putting in some new cool character, I'd choose the new one. But, since I don't think there is any possibility of Sheik taking up anyone's spot, she absolutely should return.

Well maybe my "There are no designated slots! It's all a lie!" argument could sway you on that one then.

@Diddy Kong

Melee? Balanced? There's a huge difference between the bottom tier and the top tier. There is no way that there could be such a difference between the goodness of characters and still call it balanced. The game might be quite balanced between the tiers themselves (like top tier characters are balanced relatively well against other top tier characters and low tier against low tier) but having 1-2 pros crazy enough to main a low tier character does not make the game balanced. There's matchups that are predicted 5-0 in a best of 9 of equal skill for crying out loud :/.

 

[JPW]

my problem with Sheik is really not a big thing, I just being rational, or facing facts.

I don't really care if Sheik makes it or not. It just to me there are many other new and exciting characters that should be considered before Sheik. And they should have more of a chance, moreso than someone who is just another form of one character. Cause most characters on the roster are originals.

My biggest worry of seeing Sheik as a separate is she could end up taking someone else's spot. Who should really be there.

That being said, Sheik being Zelda's second form or something I guess woulnd't be that bad, in the end it just wont make sense if he's basing it off from Zelda in TP. Then again we see Zelda using her moves from Ocarina Of Time., so how does that fit?

Sheik was very cool, and exciting and new. But in the end to me it just doesn't fit this time. But it could work. I'm not against it. Do what you want with Zelda I don't care. She's not in my top 10 of preferred characters. Do whatever you want. Sakurai is doing very well with the old meeting the new and doing weird and wonderful things. He could very well make Zelda's final smash be a Sheik transformation, or let you morph into Sheik again.

Frankly I don't care what happens. But I believe mainly the reason why people are lashing out are because it doesn't make sense, there are much brighter candidates and some people just suck with Sheik.

 

[Teh Popo]

personally, I want the Zelda/Sheik combo to return. I just got into playing as Zelda recently, but I've loved the whole aspect of basically using 2 characters interchangeably. I loved the look on my friend's face when I changed to Zelda mid-match, and beat him with Zelda.

I say keep Zelda/Sheik as is, but improve Zelda. give her light arrows like in TP, make her up+b less laggy, make her side+b easier to hit with, increase her running speed, and give her a more traditional side smash.

also, I don't think Sheik should be nerfed, or even Fox and Falco, for that matter; they should merely buff everyone else. obviously, tiers can't be done away with entirely, but it wasn't fair that certain characters are made to be so low tier.

 

[SiD]

That's the thing, there isn't a set number of spots on the roster Vali. There are characters they want in and that = the roster, returning or not it doesn't matter. They decide the roster size based on who they want in, and set the release date based on that. Therefore, I think Sheik will return.

Sorry for the short response, on my way out to see Superbad.

 

[LightLink17]

That's the thing, there isn't a set number of spots on the roster Vali. There are characters they want in and that = the roster, returning or not it doesn't matter. They decide the roster size based on who they want in, and set the release date based on that. Therefore, I think Sheik will return.

I see 10 pages of debate hasn't changed much. I would have thought it would have shown one to, at least, never claim to have inside knowledge on the inner workings of development. The fact is, you don't KNOW anything about it. You have no idea if what you say is right. So basically going "No, you're wrong, and this is how it is." is wrong. You don't know. Don't write as if you do.

I for one completely agree with the assessment that Shiek could take away somebody's spot. It's a logical conclusion. It's not just simply wrong because you say so.


Anyway. I don't care if Shiek gets in or not. I play as him...not that often. I actually think he's fun. And he was cool in OoT. But there *are* more fun, more cool characters who I play much more often. If he's in, that's fine. If not, that's fine too.

But I will say that he *is* plenty broken. If he were to come back, he should be fixed. It's pretty obvious that he has problems. Then again, that's just an extension of making the game balanced overall. It'd be fine if they didn't change him, but made everybody else suck less when compared to him. Ends the same way (sort of, I'd argue putting Shiek down as more favourable to beefing everybody else up). Either way, being broken is a reason for not wanting him back, as well as him taking away from other characters that other people find more worthy.

EDIT: I forgot. Does it really matter if people think Shiek is a guy or not? I happen to think he's a he. I see valid reasons for both arguments, so it really just comes down to taste.

 

[Noshiee]

Yes ofcoarse Sheik is a beloved character, but every character in Melee is just simply beloved. Melee is a very balanced game, and every character atleast has one pro player maining him/her. Even Pichu is beloved, so why should they take him out? Dr.Mario clearly is more populair than Mario himself, ofcoarse Sakurai won't cut him... or will he?

Anyways, they are already making character cuts. So why not modernise the whole roster while they're at it? Many characters from Melee can easly be replaced by more well known and recent characters, and I believe some of them already did got replaced, or atleast it's a possibility. For example:

Ike = Marth / Roy
Zero Suit Samus = Sheik
Wario = Mr.Game & Watch

And there are still a lot of very populair and wanted characters out there who could also easly replace some of the current characters on Melee's roster. Like:

King DeDeDe = Ice Climbers
WW Link = Young Link
Lucario = Mewtwo
Lucas = Ness
Wolf O'Donnel = Falco

All these characters could easly have the most signifant moves of the original character transfered over to their own moveset, and yet still have unique traiths. That would take less time balancing older characters out, and yet give us 8 new characters. And seeing that 8 characters also have been cut, they'd have more time developing completely new characters.

I'm not expecting such a dramical change in the roster however, but I do think there's a huge change it might be the case for Sheik, since there frankly aren't very good reasons to keep her if they could just transfer her style into a whole new character.

I dont remember DDD shootiing a blizard or something similar in his game, or having a twin or a very exact looking wife-girlfriend, or shooting ice cubes kinda thingys?
IC are nothing near alike to DDD aside from the both weilding Mallets

 

[SiD]

I see 10 pages of debate hasn't changed much. I would have thought it would have shown one to, at least, never claim to have inside knowledge on the inner workings of development. The fact is, you don't KNOW anything about it. You have no idea if what you say is right. So basically going "No, you're wrong, and this is how it is." is wrong. You don't know. Don't write as if you do.

I for one completely agree with the assessment that Shiek could take away somebody's spot. It's a logical conclusion. It's not just simply wrong because you say so.


Anyway. I don't care if Shiek gets in or not. I play as him...not that often. I actually think he's fun. And he was cool in OoT. But there *are* more fun, more cool characters who I play much more often. If he's in, that's fine. If not, that's fine too.

But I will say that he *is* plenty broken. If he were to come back, he should be fixed. It's pretty obvious that he has problems. Then again, that's just an extension of making the game balanced overall. It'd be fine if they didn't change him, but made everybody else suck less when compared to him. Ends the same way (sort of, I'd argue putting Shiek down as more favourable to beefing everybody else up). Either way, being broken is a reason for not wanting him back, as well as him taking away from other characters that other people find more worthy.

EDIT: I forgot. Does it really matter if people think Shiek is a guy or not? I happen to think he's a he. I see valid reasons for both arguments, so it really just comes down to taste.

Not you again. Shut the **** up dude, I don't want to hear your stupid debate again. You always talk like you know for sure, that's just how people talk. It's obvious, unless people say otherwise, that what they say is their opinions, so shove off. Vali doesn't take my word as law and I don't take his that way, because it's just our opinions and conclusions, obviously not 100% facts.

 

[Lgndknight]

well sakurai did say that Zelda would be even more magic focused, and I don't know if shiek counts as magic, since sheik doesn't really have any range or magical abilities

 

[The_Corax_King]

Where did he say that? I don't see it in the site...

 

[LightLink17]

Not you again. Shut the **** up dude, I don't want to hear your stupid debate again. You always talk like you know for sure, that's just how people talk. It's obvious, unless people say otherwise, that what they say is their opinions, so shove off. Vali doesn't take my word as law and I don't take his that way, because it's just our opinions and conclusions, obviously not 100% facts.

"That's just how people talk" isn't a good argument. That just means that lots of people speak with little meaning. It doesn't negate or even have anything to do with that point.

Anyway. If you don't want to hear me, the last thing you want to do is reply to me.

 

[Noshiee]

Hey people! I just though of a great way to have Sheik as a separate character from Zelda, and that the fact of both Sheik and Zelda in the same place is not weird anymore...remplace Sheik with Impa, she is a sheika (Sheik is a shieka disguise), so she can have the same moveset, but oviously nerfed so she is not broken, she has been in more than one Zelda, and her ancestor appeared in Twilight Princess and even mentioned her (kinda), and that would add one more female to the crew (which is totally out of topic, but I do remeber someone told that Sakurai wants more girls in the game).

So, what do you think?

 

[The_Corax_King]

People have talked about an Impa sheik clone since melee came out...


Impa is nasty... and a very minor character...


Impa over sheik is a terrible idea...

 

[Circus]

People have talked about an Impa sheik clone since melee came out...


Impa is nasty... and a very minor character...


Impa over sheik is a terrible idea...

To be fair, Sheik is also a very minor character. The only reason she has a smidgen of more importance than Impa is because she's literally Zelda.

Honestly, I don't really want either one of them. I'm okay with Sheik being in Brawl, but I'm not okay with her being Zelda's Down B. I don't care what anyone says or how Sakurai may try to convince me otherwise if he does it—TP Zelda should not turn into Sheik. That's equivalent to Mario turning into Sheik as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Noshiee]

well, Impa has appeared in more than one game (unlike sheik) and I dont see what so bad about it, that could be an opportunity to give zelda a more competitive moveset and not just being the picture in the selection screen and also add more femmes to the game

 

[Diddy Kong]

I dont remember DDD shootiing a blizard or something similar in his game, or having a twin or a very exact looking wife-girlfriend, or shooting ice cubes kinda thingys?
IC are nothing near alike to DDD aside from the both weilding Mallets

No I didn't mean that they'd be exact clones. Marth also never had Aether, and Sheik only had one whip based move. I meant that all those characters easly could have a lot of moves based on the original character, and for King DeDeDe that could mean that he'd have the moveset of a solo Ice Climber minus the B moves and a few unique A moves spread over his moveset.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Shiek is a fun character to play whether people like...it?...or not.

Shiek has a variety of counters that make it easy to defeat a Shiek player...

 

[Circus]

Shiek is a fun character to play whether people like...it?...or not.

This is true. No denying that.

Shiek has a variety of counters that make it easy to defeat a Shiek player...

Such as?

She's fast, she's ridiculously easy to pull of combos with, and she has plenty of kill moves (all of her smashes and aerials). It's not easy to kill a Sheik if the Sheik keeps killing you first.

 

[Noshiee]

that she's fun doesnt mean she's not broken or overpowered
she only has to be nerfed, thats all, and maybe be remplaced by Impa and be a separate character from Zelda (im not giving up lol )

 

[specialsauce]

im hopin sheik returns i use her and zelda alot but honestly people zelda in melee wasnt all that good i still use her and do pretty good but she could be better , having sheik helps zelda out a bit. if they can give zelda better moves make her and make her faster then nerf sheik a bit it would be perfect

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

that she's fun doesnt mean she's not broken or overpowered
she only has to be nerfed, thats all, and maybe be remplaced by Impa and be a separate character from Zelda (im not giving up lol )

Impa is ugly though....bleh, whatever...


...I can't say specifically but as someone that used to main Shiek (Before I discovered that how to use Mewtwo and my personal favourite from Melee and 64, samus)...I can usually figure out how to counter him...

 

[Noshiee]

im hopin sheik returns i use her and zelda alot but honestly people zelda in melee wasnt all that good i still use her and do pretty good but she could be better , having sheik helps zelda out a bit. if they can give zelda better moves make her and make her faster then nerf sheik a bit it would be perfect

actually, is all the way around, sheik didnt help zelda at all, 'couse they would say "hey is zelda, i'l try to main her" uses down B "no wait, better idea, I'll use this ridicolously powerful character sheik instead and dont use zelda at all".

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

They could add a pokemon trainer type thing that forces you to switch or a timer on how long you switch and a cooldown...

 

[Circus]

im hopin sheik returns i use her and zelda alot but honestly people zelda in melee wasnt all that good i still use her and do pretty good but she could be better , having sheik helps zelda out a bit. if they can give zelda better moves make her and make her faster then nerf sheik a bit it would be perfect

You hold the opposite view of many. . . well, I'll say "Sheik discouragers" on this board. Including myself. Sheik is more of a reminder of how useless Zelda unfortunately is. You pick Zelda, the MAGIC-WIELDING PRINCESS that her series takes it's NAME from, and then use Sheik the whole match—a character who never even did anything in the game she was featured in, other than recite a few flowerly lines to Link while he was an adult. It's almost insulting, actually.

 

[Metà]

The problem with this thread is, that you're all just using Melee as your basis for not wanting her in the game. Brawl is a different game; it has different mechanics, different characters, and different stages. If they put Sheik in, she's not going to be the same as she is in Melee and kick everyone's a**, she's going to be different, and most likely more balanced. If we were looking at things in 64 the way you're all looking at Sheik now, we would have said "remove Pikachu and Kirby!"

Stop arguing about a game that hasn't been released yet, people! >_<

 

[Noshiee]

The problem with this thread is, that you're all just using Melee as your basis for not wanting her in the game. Brawl is a different game; it has different mechanics, different characters, and different stages. If they put Sheik in, she's not going to be the same as she is in Melee and kick everyone's a**, she's going to be different, and most likely more balanced. If we were looking at things in 64 the way you're all looking at Sheik now, we would have said "remove Pikachu and Kirby!"

Stop arguing about a game that hasn't been released yet, people! >_<

this is what forums are all about lol xD

 

[Circus]

The problem with this thread is, that you're all just using Melee as your basis for not wanting her in the game.

Many people are also using Melee as a basis for wanting her in the game. Goes both ways here.

Brawl is a different game; it has different mechanics, different characters, and different stages. If they put Sheik in, she's not going to be the same as she is in Melee and kick everyone's a**, she's going to be different, and most likely more balanced.

Which, with a few exceptions, would kill Sheik's fanbase from Smash. Sheik does seem to have fans, but the vast majority want her for her hitboxes and fluent movements. There aren't many people who play as her purely for her character, as a Link or Ness player might.

If we were looking at things in 64 the way you're all looking at Sheik now, we would have said "remove Pikachu and Kirby!"

Not so. Those two actually have legitmate fanbases of people who like them for the characters that they are. Pikachu, in particular is insanely popular just by being a Pokemon. Sheik has no such character popularity to boast.

Stop arguing about a game that hasn't been released yet, people! >_<

And leave this whole board empty? Where's the sense in that? Besides, it's so much more fun to argue.

 

[Luke Groundwalker]

Shiek needs to be in. She's a very unique character. The only problem is that she's cheap as hell despite being original, and honestly I think Sakurai needs to fix that.

In any case, it's already been confirmed that Shiek is in by Gameinformer in the interview with Aonuma. Either you like it or not, Shiek is going to be in it unless Sakurai does something stupid like taking her out of the game at the last minute.

 

[blueriku]

no still understands sheik is very easy to fix thier are only two things you need to do to fix and she would be fair also sheik is popular with like 98 percent of the zelda fans but outside she still has some fans so her spot is rightfully deserved.

 

[specialsauce]

You hold the opposite view of many. . . well, I'll say "Sheik discouragers" on this board. Including myself. Sheik is more of a reminder of how useless Zelda unfortunately is. You pick Zelda, the MAGIC-WIELDING PRINCESS that her series takes it's NAME from, and then use Sheik the whole match—a character who never even did anything in the game she was featured in, other than recite a few flowerly lines to Link while he was an adult. It's almost insulting, actually.

I understand that people use zelda so that they can use sheik for the whole fight but i want for zelda in brawl to have better moveset and be improving all around, sheik can be toned down or even have a stamina system, but sheik should still be there shes just so cool,

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I understand that people use zelda so that they can use sheik for the whole fight but i want for zelda in brawl to have better moveset and be improving all around, sheik can be toned down or even have a stamina system, but sheik should still be there shes just so cool,

I still think

They could add a pokemon trainer type thing that forces you to switch or a timer on how long you switch and a cooldown...

 

[specialsauce]

I still think

They could add a pokemon trainer type thing that forces you to switch or a timer on how long you switch and a cooldown...

yeah that would good

 

[RWB]

Popular with 98 percent of the Zelda fans? Yeah right.

As I said earlier, I'd rather have Tetra. She is actually a character in her own right, and she is recurring(as of yet). If there is any Zelda transformation that should be in, its her. She is not that likely, sadly. Oh well, owning things with Tingle should be nice(he is the most likely newcomer).^^

 

[Circus]

I do think that the "stamina" idea, a 'la Pokémon Trainer is a good solution to the problem of Sheik's over-usage, but then I come back to the problem of Twilight Princess Zelda. Which is really more of an aesthetic issue rather than a gaming one. But I know I'm not the only one who'd be bothered by it.

Basically, I've kind of come to terms with the fact that Sheik's probably in (I take that one interview seriously), but I'm hoping for her to be included separate from Zelda.

 

[blueriku]

Popular with 98 percent of the Zelda fans? Yeah right.

As I said earlier, I'd rather have Tetra. She is actually a character in her own right, and she is recurring(as of yet). If there is any Zelda transformation that should be in, its her. She is not that likely, sadly. Oh well, owning things with Tingle should be nice(he is the most likely newcomer).^^

yea tetra is a character in her own right but technically u can say the same for sheik remember tetra is tetra not disguise true but she is still zelda and sheik was belived to be one a guy and two sheikah but turned out be zelda even thought zelda disguised her self no one knew til that pacific part of the game and then on so you can heavily compare tetra to sheik when it come to character wise the main difference is tetra herself did not know she was zelda

 

[RWB]

I won't complain if they are both in! Ninja vs Pirate.^^

 

[blueriku]

I won't complain if they are both in! Ninja vs Pirate.^^

actually that would be cool huh