Why Nintendo will survive

[Creature_85]

Hereafter is a summary of the thoughts that have been bouncing through my mind of late, that I finally decided to put into an organized rant. (That my friends, is a classy first sentence)

Over the past few years, Nintendo has really been struggling. Sony with Playstation, and now Microsoft with X-box, have been strong competitors, repeatedly outselling them, and buying developers left and right.

I will cede that the X-box and Playstation2 consoles are superior to the Gamecube. PSP does have better graphics hardware than the DS. But a console is only as good as its games. And that, is why Nintendo will succeed.

Nintendo has lasted through the ages. It has survived gaming greats like Sega, and Atari. And it has for one reason, and one reason only, its games.

And of course you are saying, "But Jon! Look at Halo! Look at GTA! Those games are way better than anything Nintendo has!"

To which I can only reply, "Better by whose standards?" Sure, they sold better, but only because they had two things that for some reason, most people find the only important things in a game: Senseless violence, and good graphics.

Graphics mostly can be blamed for the downfall of gaming. If we continue to pay companies for games based soley on their graphics quality, then gaming will continue on it's downward trend. If good gameplay continues to be overlooked because of graphics, then gaming will eventually collapse into movies and pornography controlled by a controller instead of a remote.

In the words of the wise sage, Brian Clevinger, "Using 3D graphics just because the console can process them is somewhat like having a voice say 'Keep on gamin', soldier!' every five seconds just because the console can produce CD quality sound."

There is one thing that makes Nintendo games better than all the rest: Originality. And I'm not just some Nintendo fanboy shooting his mouth off, I have legitimate proof. In several different genres.

The biggest and most important example is:

Fighting Games

Fighting games have not progressed in the last two decades at all. The new ones may be covered in flashy graphics, and hot girls, but really, you are just playing the same washed up Mortal Combat. Fighting games still have not progressed out of their Mortal Combat stage. Two fighters stand in a ring, and punch and kick each other until one is dead.

And then to fool you into thinking it is really a new game, they add great graphics and scantily clad female characters bouncing around and poking through their tops. It's pathetic how low gaming has sunk, just to sell.

So anyway, to the point. To counter this pathetic monotony, Nintendo unleashes the greatest fighting game series of all time: Super Smash Brothers and Super Smash Brothers Melee.

These two are the first original fighting games of this gaming generation. They combine the same great elements of fighting games, using individual characters with unique abilities and different styles, and combine it with a brand new way to look at fighting games. They actually use levels to change the gaming experience. Levels are bigger than 30 foot rings, they now contain an enormous enviroment, which drastically effects the game.

They also take on a platforming element, with the advanced jumping and arial attacks. Suspended platforms and uneven levels make battles so much more than Punch 'em Kick 'em action. And plus, 4 players. Can't go wrong with that.

So next time you are playing Soul Calibur 2, and making Taki run back and forth just so you can see her bounce, think of how pathetic fighting games have become.

My next point lies within the ever popular:

First Person Shooters

This potentially good gaming genre has reached sick levels that make me embarrassed to be a gamer. These games stoop so low it is disgusting. Just the thought of how these monstrocities are poisoning the young impressionable minds of gamers is sickening.

Games like GTA, Hitman, and Halo, that glorify senseless violence and killing, making them seem like a harmless passtime, inconsequential normalities of life, make me retch. In GTA for example, most of the game centers around running around and commiting heinious crimes, repeated murder, drug distribution, and most namely: Grand Theft Auto. This game series makes these things seem fun! And people wonder why the crime rate is going up.

I was watching a friend play vice city. He ran outside with a baseball bat. Seeing two pedestrians walk by, he ran up and swung his bat at them, killing them both. When the Police arrived to arrest him, he ran up and beat their heads in too. Then the ambulance showed up. He ran up and killed the EMTs as they came for the bodies.

Maybe that just sickened me a little more because my dad is an RN. I don't know. What I do know is at the sight of that horrible, heartless act, and the fact that the game designers allow you to do that, I dumped the contents of my lunch on his floor.

Halo is not as bad as the other two, but it is still awful. Brutal murders are commonplace, and violence is extremely graphic.

The worst of these three is the joy called Hitman. Hitman influence has been linked to several teen murders. This game centers behind, not surprisingly, an asassin. In this game, you take down a series of heavily guarded targets. These murders are extremely brutal. Weapons featured in these games include a variety of guns, fiberwire, meathooks, shovels, pool cues, tazers, swords, and plastic bags. Other methods of killing involve drowning, smothering, beheading, and slicing throats. The game encourages you to get creative with your killing, and awards extra points for brutality.

My point is, shooters have gotten old ever since James Bond, and attempts to make somthing original have given gristly results.

From this point, it's not hard for Nintendo to make something better than this filth, but they do an amazing job with Metroid Prime. It's a refreshing break from the same old shooter we have seen, loved, and eventually gotten sick of. It combines the great adventure elements of Item collecting and problem solving with classic shooting elements. The bold single player mode is a never before seen advance in video gaming.

Now, for the next of the three most popular genres:

Racing

Racing is probably the oldest and most generic genre of gaming. I'm sorry, but I will go from playing need for speed, and play, say grand tourismo 3, and say, "What's the difference?" Aside from different cars and courses, we're all playing the same game here. But somehow, game developers have tricked us into thinking these are different games. That, and that their game is better, despite it being the same.

Racing is a way overused and overrated genre. I'll admit I enjoy a quick race with a friend every once in a while. But we don't need 10 different racing games, that all handle pretty much the same. This is getting old.

Then here comes Nintendo, with another line of originality, Mario Kart. These games are very innovative, combining a racing game with a whole new element of using items to defeat opponents. That, plus 4 players.

Now, for the last, and strongest example:

Role Playing Games (RPGs)

This is where Nintendo really sticks it to Playstation. X-box does not really do much with RPGs, so I will mostly focus on Playstation. Or, most namely, Square. You guys should have stayed with Nintendo, because they are really kicking up a storm.

(Note, do not try to yell at me for using Square, instead of Squaresoft, or the Enix part of square, because I know which parts make what games, but Square is easier to type than SquareEnix)

Case in point, Final Fantasy. I have posted several times the rant by Brian Clevinger about Square's decline, but in case any readers have not seen it, here is the link: http://www.nuklearpower.com/oldvsnew.php

That summarizes the problems with Final Fantasy better than I could, so I won't go into detail.

Mainly, I would like to focus on the fact that Square's decline started after they moved to Playstation. Big surprise there. Ever since then, they have only cared about graphics. Their games are all the same, just with a new story, throw in a new weapon or summon system and there you go, new game.

And yet, with Nintendo, they made several amazing innovations. Remember all the greats in games? FF1, FF3, FF6, Chrono Trigger, just to name a few. And then they go to Playstation. Umm. . . Well, FF7 was great as far as story and characters went, Kingdom Hearts was amazing. . . and. . . umm. . . that's about it. All I can think of for now.

Well guess what, even without Square, Nintendo has done great. Great games on the Gameboy Advance such as Golden Sun, Fire Emblem, Advance Wars, and of course, Pokemon, have given a new outlook on RPGs, besides the basic FF style.

If this should be considered Spam, go ahead and close this. I am just becoming sick of the trend games are taking, and felt the need to express my voice.

EDIT: Upon further thought, I realized that this probably should not go here. I'm sorry, but I am also unable to move this after it has been made.

 

[McFox]

I don't see any reason this should be closed, but I do agree that it belongs in the Light House.

I usually hate console debates, but I'm hoping some Halo 2 fanboys will attempt to defend it as their pick for Game of the Year .

 

[Creature_85]

Ok, thank you for moving it appropriately. I wasn't sure.

 

[MewtwoMaster2002]

This is a cool rant and I'm not just saying it because I'm your friend . I agree with you fully. I think Halo 1 and 2 are both overrated. Plus why would they sell rated M games to 10 year olds? Once I even saw a little kid not even 4 that wanted to buy GTA: San Andreas just by looking at the cover O_o'. Also I'm tired of those games that seem different but are the same. I wonder how all those fanboys of those games are going to react when they see this article. Oh and one thing you forgot...F-Zero as one of Nintendo's original game. Sure it's just racing but it's futuristic racing. Along with the different story modes and they even have a lot of information about the racers. Also the story mode is original. And for GX you get to customize your own machine.

Also lot's of companies are selling !@#$%^! just to get money for their products. GTA is no exception. THEY HAVE GIRLS SELLING THEMSELVES. It's an immoral game which I think shouldn't even be sold to people less than 19.

Halo 1 and 2, again, has lots of killing, even if it's some alien species or w/e. I played the game, found it overrated and too gory. If you love gore and you like it enough to actually try it in real life then you have a messed up mind. Still, some school shootings are caused by people who think their games are saying it's ok to do these things. Sure you will defend it and say "games don't do that stuff" or "you are stupid for thinking games make people kill". Well I know it's their choice but the games tempted them to try it so they listen to the game and do it.

Some fighting games are selling !@#$%^! by making girls hot and not wearing much clothes. They do it because they know people these days like stuff like that. It's those kind of games that keep me from buying them. Most of them are on PS2 or Xbox and there aren't many for GC. And those who buy the game because of the girls must have sick minds. Still, some people buy it for the fighting which is a good enough reason but almost all fighting games are the same. Just with different weapons and characters and stages and music. SC2 is only different for adding special characters.

Still, Nintendo doesn't put immoral stuff in their games that they make, they put fun stuff and original stuff that people say are "kiddy" stuff. People buy games with immoral stuff and say it's "cool". That's what everybody likes these days so that's why more people buy PS2 or Xbox. Also I didn't buy PS2 or Xbox because they have online gaming and it will get me to buy online games. Online=lots of viruses and viruses=mess up system. So that's another thing why Nintendo will live.

Lots of people judge games by graphic and since Sony and Microsoft are going towards graphics, more people buy it. That's why more people bought PSP than Nintendo DS, PSP had better graphics. But there are plenty of reasons why it sucked more. PSP runs out of batteries in about 5 hours is one. They also go for functions of their system. That's why they go too far in adding music, computer, DVD player, and other stuff that isn't really needed in a gaming system just to get people to buy their products.

Nintendo will survive because of their games that many people think are "kiddy". They keep everything simple and fun. They don't go adding unneeded functions in their systems. Nintendo DS has many functions because it opens up more opportunities for game ideas.

The most popular games these days are mostly rated M which is stupid. Also I think the people who sell that games are stupid for even letting little kids buy rated M games. Parents should also be careful of what their children are playing. Example is the little kid at a Target who wanted GTA and wasn't even old enough for school. It could happen from parents not being careful and older siblings that aren't helping at all. PS2 and Xbox have plenty of rated M games and the only one I know of on a Nintendo system was GTA on GBA. So if you have a little kid or a younger sibling I advise you NOT to buy those kind of games.

Go ahead, flame me all you want if you think what I wrote is stupid. I'm just stating my opinion and that's all I need to do. And it's not like me to say some of these things.

 

[Mic_128]

Very good. The only thing I feel I should mention is MarioKart. The game, while good, isn't original. Not since it was first made on the Snes, has it ben original. Krash Nitro-Kart? Other crappy spin-offs? MarioKart is an awsome game, just not saying it's that original. If that makes sense.

 

[MewtwoMaster2002]

Yes Mario Kart wasn't original but maybe he means Mario Kart Double Dash. It has two people on one car. I haven't seen another racing game like that.

 

[Aqualicy]

Not a bad rant, I skimmed through it and saw a few good points. I disagree with you on a couple of areas, but you're mostly right. Keep one thing in mind, though; one thing that sells games such as Halo 2 is the hype. The more time and effort you put into putting the idea that this game will be awesome into peoples' heads, the more people will buy them. After the release of games such as Halo 2, Ninja Gaiden and most notably of all, Driv3r, just as a few examples, people have come out from every corner of the world and voiced their opinion; the game didn't appeal to them and they shouldn't have bought it, but they did because "everyone else were going to".

Halo 2. Ah, yes. The game became famous for "Crashing X-Box live" because of the insane amounts of people trying to update and play. And for the first week, everyone on my friends list could be seen as "Online and playing Halo 2". Then interest started to fade, they returned to their other favorite games, and Halo 2 settled in with a loyal fan base, but the general population wasn't nearly as big as in the beginning as the hype died.

Driver 3 sold... for a few days. Then, VERY rapidly, word spread. They spent more money on advertising than they did on the game itself, it would seem. This is noticable when a small TV channel in Norway airs Driv3r commercials about a month before its eventual release. It is now common knowledge that Driv3r is, in fact, one of the absolute worst games of the year in the sense that it was so overhyped but performed so horrendously. Poor graphics (trees that pop up out of nowhere), ludicrous AI and few innovations turned it into one of the biggest let-downs of the year for a lot of people.

And then, every other commercial website that sells games and consoles write sparkling reviews about Ninja Gaiden and finishes with the phrase "This is the kind of game that sells X-Boxes." And then people desire an X-Box because "it must be hot stuff." More commercialism. I enjoyed NG, but I was not about to buy an X-Box based on that one game.

X-Box and PS2 have both sold more copies than the GameCube. The GC can outperform them both in the graphics department, but Nintendo doesn't run around screaming "CRYSTAL CLEAR GRAPHICS! BUY BUY BUY!" like the rest, and I respect them for it.

Commercials sell. No argument there.

 

[Aruun]

First off, just let me say, you guys are missing a whole lot. Gamecube can NOT out-preform X-Box in graphics. I don't really give a **** if it can or not, but it can't. RE4 is the only game that comes close to X-Box, and if you stick it on a large TV it looks pretty pixely.

PS2 doesn't focus on graphics anymore than GCN though, I don't know what you're talking about. PS2 has worse graphics and longer loading times. By all means when it comes to hardware GCN is better.

And Nintendo isn't the perfect little creative, innovative company you act like it is. They're completely whoring out half of their franchises, perfect example: Mario. Mario Tennis, Mario Golf, Mario Baseball, DDR With Mario, Mario in the NFL Street game, Mario Party 6, Mario Party Advance, Mario remakes, etc. Should I go on? These games only sell because Nintendo plastered their franchise all over them. Metroid is one of the few games to actually change quite a bit since it's older times.

Also, Nintendo has a very poor RPG selection. Fire Emblem and Advance Wars are strategy games, not RPGs. Golden Sun (while still being an great game), besides the Djinn/Summoning system, is nothing new. Paper Mario is the only example of an actually innovative RPG that Nintendo's made. Heck, it's basically the ONLY RPG Nintendo's made


Oh, and the PSP didn't outsell the DS by any means. I don't know where you heard that, but the DS is essentially giving the PSP a butt-whooping in Japan so far.


And don't give me that crap about PS2 not being innovative. Eyetoy? More innovative than anything the GCN has. Katamari Damacy? Kthx. And Square has made plenty of good games. You're just saying it sucks because Final Fantasy hasn't gone anywhere new? That's ********. What about Vagrant Story, or Chrono Cross, or Kingdom Hearts? KH sells well and it's anything but a gory, mature rated game with pretty graphics. I mean geez, it has DISNEY characters in it! It sold because it was something new, and because it was FUN.

And while Halo/2 is completely over-rated, it's multiplayer is some of the best multiplayer on any system thus far. I suppose it changes depending on your taste, but the game isn't even all that gory. Violent, sure, but not really gory. And there's no hot chicks wearing way too little It's single player mode is mediocre, but multiplayer is still a blast.

I generally agree with fighting games though. Soul Calibur II is one of the few games I can think of that's actually, well, good. Each character has tons of moves which are all different, tons of combinations to find, etc. And since each character uses a different kind of weapon, they each ACTUALLY play different. Weapon Master mode was awesome, it gave the game a pretty decent plot (for a fighting game at least, that's for sure), while giving you better chances to unlock things like new weapons (which have advantages and disadvantages), characters and costumes. And seeing as I'm gay, Ivy's leather one-piece and Taki's very-noticable nipples aren't exactly a reason to get the game... xD Well okay Kilik is hot but I wouldn't play the game just for that. Dead or Alive 3 is a perfect example of the type of fighting game you mentioned. I played it on X-Box the other day... it completely sucked. It just had girls with unnaturally large breasts running around is whorish clothing killing things. Everyone played the same. All you had to do was mash buttons. I know someone with an X-Box, who looves Halo 2... and he said that he thought DoA3 was way better than SCII. Augh.

SSBM is the only fighting game Nintendo's ever made though, so I don't think you can really give it to them for "saving" the fighting game genre. Heck, it's hardly even a fighting game, it's more of it's own genre...

Don't get me wrong, I still love Nintendo. I think the DS is awesome, and a move in the right direction. But PS2 is still a very good system, and though I personally don't enjoy X-Box very often, Halo 2 multiplayer/online is excellent, and it has a few good games here and there (Ninja Gaiden, Fable). I agree with you on GTA... I loath that game. It's just stupid. There's not even a point... you just run around doing ******** things.


Let's face it everyone. You can never underestimate the intelligence of the average American Consumer.

 

[Flok]

Nice, new debate(s). It's topics like these that let me be active on Smashboards more. I'll just comment on random things i've read first:

I liked GTA 2 when it got released, GTA 1 played too slow for me but it was ok. GTA 3 and Vice City played and looked boring, can't comment on San Andreas yet. But...if I play any of the games in this serie too long i'll get bored, seriously there's not much real fun stuff to find in here. This serie just screams "kill them all" and like I said it's fun for a while but then it becomes boring and repetitive.

I'm one of the few(I guess?) people in the world who did not understand Halo 1/2. Or let's say, I DON'T UNDERSTAND HYPE. What is this crazy curious feeling most of us have when they see games like those? Whenever I ask what makes them great they say it's either because of the vehicles, the graphics or the online multiplayer mode, with the last one being the best reason. But even then this serie does not make me feel like it's awesome when I tried out any of those reasons. Some people say it's the controls that screw this serie up, but I say it's the flow on how these games are played. If I really want to enjoy a good FPS it has to be fastpaced like Timesplitters 2, not like slow Halo 1/2 in which everyone either has lots of time to hit the target and the other has not much time to dodge the bullets. Another thing that bugs me is the autohealing in Halo 2, can't remember if it was in Halo 1 too. I don't know but this really is a noob-friendly tactic when used correctly. Last thing, can anyone describe me the most violenced scene in this serie? Because I seriously don't think this serie is that bloody compared to something like Doom 3(which I beat once on normal mode)

Other than Final Fantasy 8's Mini Card game and the story in FF7 and 8 I'm not much of a fan of Final Fantasy. I can't seem to get into the games. I prefer the Secret of Mana over Final Fantasy serie for example because I like the battles in Secret of Mana more.

I agree on the fighting genre. They really should be able to atleast walk freely in levels, not those cheap sidesteps which some people call freedom. Or bring back the beat em' up genre, which was pretty good anyway. I bought Soul Calibur II because I heard it had Yoshimitsu in it which I found cool in Tekken Tag Tournament and also because the weapons looked cool. Soul Calibur I was also considered the best fighting game for Dreamcast so I thought"why not" and bought it. And not because of Link or the girls in it, **** the hype/sex.

I agree with the Mario Franchise, while he remains to be my favourite video game character ever I will only buy the games that are original/good from him. I always wanted to have DDR on the Gamecube though. And hell maybe Mario Party 6 IS good. Plus if Mario Baseball is made by Konami I can almost quarantee that it will rock. Looks like all of his games remain good this year, including Super Mario 128 coming to the Gamecube.

Now to add some things on my own:

Yes, Nintendo lives on, it's not the fact that I consider them the best but it's that they know that they are the most active with originalism in games.

I'm happily waiting for the Nintendo DS to come out here. I have the patience for it and because of that I won't be dissapointed by it probaply.

That is all for now.

 

[Luigitoilet]

Videogames do not cause things like school shootings. People who think this-I hesitate to say- are morons.

that's all.

 

[Stopsign]

I agree with Flok on that this is why I come here to SWF. It is to argue my opion over others and to attend to my clan which isn't very consistant in posting anymore. So I will argue away now.

Nintendo is the only reason why the Video game industry exists. I know I know that some other company would have come along and tried the market again. But the market just wouldn't be the same with all the great games that Nintendo has come up with. Mario, Metriod, Zelda, Smash Bros, Pikmin, Donkey Kong, and Star Fox. That is a long list of games. Almost everyone of those series really rock. I wouldn't be here using the internet on a geeky video game website (No offence) if it weren't for my older brother for the first time introducing me to Zelda: A Link to the Past. Afterwards I fell in love with all the different games.

I know Nintendo was not very innovative with the Gamecube but I enjoyed it all the same. Even though Nintendo seems to be whoring Mario with all these different games. But not every single one of the games is going to be bad just because Nintendo is over using a certain character so much that the game is bad. I infact like most of the Mario sports series. I liked the Mario Party series when it first came out on the N64. So I have to say I still love Nintendo.

Well I guess I got off easy because most of my friends all ready love Ninty. 4 of them have DS's all ready and 5 of them have Gamecubes and one a PS2. So I don't get teased for liking Nintendo at all.

For all the kids out there that say Nintendo is kiddy or the Gamecube is. Why would they be letting very violent and grusome or scary games and series on the Gamecube like Resident Evil or Eternal Darkness, and Killer 7. Infact Nintendo is devoloping a violent and gruesome game right now. Geist is looking very violent in my mind since I don't play games like Man Hunt and GTA. Even though I do play Resident Evil. I don't exactly like where the game industry is going. But I do like Nintendo's new idea in refreshing the gaming industry and maybe forcing Sony and Microsoft to make innovative systems to.

 

[demoncaterpie]

Ok, here's the scoop.

Nintendo is by far the greatest video game company that has ever came out (a close second is Atari) because of everything Nintendo has done.

After the fall of Atari, video games where considered dead, obsolete. Many companies didn't want to even mention them because of what happened to Atari.

Luckily, this didn't stop Nintendo. They saw a marketing opportunity in America and set to work. At first, nobody payed Nintendo any attention. Video games where dead as far as America saw it, why sponsor a project that was bound to fall.

Again, Nintendo didn't quit. They created a robot (whose name I cannot remember, but I'm sure you know what I'm talking about) which could do many cool different things, one of which was allow someone to play a fun, simple video game (again, I can't remember the title). People loved this toy, mainly because they didn't see it as a game system, but a cool thing kids could play with.

This moment helped Nintendo to expand its empire, finally releasing the Nintendo, and the rest is history.

What Nintendo's going through right now is nothing compared to reviving an industry. Nintendo will make the Gamecube 2 and come out on top (also, check out the latest issue of EGM for a full article on Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo's plans for the next-gen console race).

 

[Hmoob Koob]

It's not on systems, it's on the games, if you can make alot of good games, then the system itself will be successful, also Creature, your pretty negative about anything other than Nintendo.

FF6, Chrono Trigger, and all that stuff, yes, great games, I won't lie and will admit that these rpg's where excellent, however storyline wise, very basic, villains, very basic, only from FF7 onward (exceptional FF8 as the villain and the whole plot just bit the dust) did they put an extreme input on not only the heroes but the villains, here you have villains whom you actually see and understand why they became corrupted, and why they believe in what they are doing, instead of just..I like to kill, and I'm evil.

Aren't first person shoot em ups supposed to be violent? So I'm guessing when James Bond puts a proximity mine on a wall and a guard walks to it, with it blowing up that it's not "violent", funny how you compare violence in one game, and yet Bond is rated M-17 which is the same rating for GTA.

Your take on racing games is also that of someone who can't tell the difference, Gran Turismo is superior to Mario Kart in everyway, every car in Gran Turismo drives differently and is very accurate, almost to the real car itself, to how you shift your car could determine if you'll get that added boost to win, or it will determine if your going to lose just because you pumped that shift too short, Gran Turismo requires a tremendous amount of skill to play, more so than Mario Kart.

SCII is a very annovative game, and it is by far one of the most in depth fighting game for the present day, only someone who has never played it competetively or gone beyond the "noob" point would consider it a Mortal Kombat load of garbage.

You shun other fighting games for not being inovative enough or that they lack a certain depth when SCII has more competetive play then SSBM, GGX has more competetive play, and Street Fighter the one that started it all blows away SSBM in terms of competetion and the sheer amount of players, tournies, crowds, and it's age alone proves it's got something if it's been around for over 15yrs...these games must really have "no depth".

SSBM is in NO WAY a new revolution to fighting games, nor is it considered the greatest, infact SCII has more than SSBM, not only does it have terrains like the walls, it also has the drop pits like SSBM, parries, side stepping, but most importantly, the free 3-D roaming which adds a whole new element, with this being all said and done, everything is a run off of something else, only the first of it's kind really deserves credibility, the rest are just some new added gimics.

Yes, Nintendo will live and continue to prosper, I would hate to see it go away, because with it continuing, as with the other consules, there will be a more wider broad of games comming out for our delights, however, I grow sick and tired of Nintendo Fan's bashing other games from different consoles, almost as though it's not considered good because it's not with Nintendo, it sounds pretty 1 dimensional to me.

 

[Mic_128]

Just remember....

 

[Giygas]

I stopped reading about the time you said that real-world violence was going up because of games.

 

[Raccoon87]

Nintendo will survive, just I don't think they'll ever reclaim the top spot. Face it; Nintendo's still thinking like video games are a niche market when they are mainstream. Nintendo needs to embrace realism and maturity. I'd like to see some mature, realistic games from them.

And their online plan, while I wouldn't use it anyway, is so wrong I can't begin to wonder who said that first. That person needs to be fired.

Nintendo goes for quantity over quality, but a lot of the more recent releases from them have been half-arsed. Mega Party Games, Custom Robo, Collosseum, Assault, heck even Echoes failed to reach the same level that games like Wind Waker, Melee, and the original Prime had.
But why is Nintendo now going for quantity and quality? Because they're awful at third-party relations. Now sometimes the third-parties deserve it, but other times Nintendo just fails to excite their base with third party games.

If it comes to making a graphically amazing FPS, I'm all for it. I'm actually pretty sure that that wants Nintendo needs to come up with now. Nintendo's got three pillars: Mario, Zelda, Metroid. Why not a 4th? And Nintendo needs to start with more bittersweet endings. I don't like the sugary coated stuff so much anymore. But I'll admit I was disappointed to hear Halo 2's opening cinema had changed. Nintendo could create a FPS where aliens and humans are fighting for the soveriegnty (actually existance) of Earth. Why not have Earth destroyed at the end?
Where's an RPG from Nintendo other than the odd Paper Mario? RPGs are a part of the market whether you like it or not, and I can only count 4 great RPGs for the GameCube: Skies, Symphonia, Baten Kaitos, and Paper Mario 2.
Fighting games are also great. Once again, it highlights Nintendo's unwillingness to create new franchises based on new characters unless it comes from Shigeru himself. Pah-leez. And a big portion of the Super Nintendo's success was, believe it or not, Street Fighter II.

Nintendo MUST diversify their base or else it will simply become a niche console for Nintendo fans. The Dreamcast turned into that. Where's Sega now?

 

[Flok]

Sega is everywhere at the moment.

Nintenod doesn't has to mature or get into realism at all, seeming that's what some people said about in the Nintendo 64 days as well. They're doing fine as of now by doing things like bringing japanese Nintendo franchises to the west part like Fire Emblem and Custom Robo, actually having some great 3rd part support on Gamecube which the Nintendo 64 did not have much of like Capcom and Namco, releasing much more Nintendo based games in short periods and lowering their main console prize. And of course they do some other nifty things as well, but the point is Nintendo has matured enough already by having a balanced flow of a gaming library on their Gamecube especially.

I'm really not sure about online console gaming, while I regulary play online with my PC I don't like the idea of online console gaming. But strangely the idea seems better suited for handhelds instead IMO like of course the Nintendo DS.

If you're looking for a FPS on Gamecube, try Timesplitters 3: Future Perfect, it's the only one you will need, seeming it looks like it's gonna blow Timesplitters 2 away.

I'm gonna have to agree on the RPG and Fighting parts though. While it seems DS is getting tons of fun RPGs i'm not sure what's gonna happen with Fighting games appearing on a Nintendo console or handheld. Those crazy Street Figther games were always cool, but I feel something like Samurai Showdown should make a return on Gamecube.

 

[Raccoon87]

How well are they doing, Flok? The last I heard Sega's most recent games were awful.

But why don't any companies decide to plop a major release as an exclusive onto the GameCube? The most recent exclusives that will most likely remain exclusive that I can think of are Twin Snakes, a remake of a game released in the nineties, and Baten Kaitos.

Nintendo needs to get a major release early on promised to them as a generational exclusive. That's Nintendo's biggest problem.

Online would be an option; look at how many are playing Madden, Splinter Cell, or Halo 2 online now. Yes, those are the big name games, but still, Nintendo could grab some of that with the Revolution, if in fact, it is supposed to be a true revolution.

I guess I just get jaded when I'm on here; I don't know, but it makes me see that Nintendo isn't doing so well at correcting mistakes.

 

[Hmoob Koob]

Online, actually isn't a bad idea, I just think they need to tweak somethings on it to make it good. I've played Madden Online, and I would have to say it's pretty darn fun, I also think that online games for fighting games especially could make for some really great competetions, as for people who can't go to tournies can have a chance to take on some of the best from around the world...imo, it's a good window, however, they need to be tweaked.

Setting for example, I played CvS2 online for the X-Box (this ver. bites because it's no longer near arcade perfect and all the good stuff that made certain characters good are no longer there ) and during a match online, I would lag...during a heated match?!...this was rather ridiculous, then all of a sudden, it goes, and I'm grounded...so I think online just needs to be worked at, on what can be done to make lags less frequent, and also less of a problem.

Seriously, it would be fun imo to have online access for SSBM3, that would really make for some fun.

Ps: Curse you Namco for taking online play out of Tekken5

 

[Misto-Roboto]

Originally posted by Giygas
I stopped reading about the time you said that real-world violence was going up because of games.

So did I. I was actually quite impressed with the article and then I read that part and just lose respect for him.

 

[Undrdog]

couple things cause I'm too tired to formulate my own rant.

RE4 was mentioned to be the only rival of the XBox's graphics. I would also add Metroid Prime even though it may not've been as high up, it could've easily passed as a XBox game. The next Zelda will rival that of the XBox's aswell I'm sure.

GTA, the only game I know that STDs and good health are one and the same. disgusting game.

even though I like Halo, I do believe that the best 1st person shooter(s) (aside from Doom which was the first) was Perfect Dark and Golden Eye for the N64. and in all honesty, I dont think Halo lived up to what they were at thier time.

Microsoft claims that they are dropping out of the race if they can't beat out both Nintendo and Sony with thier next generation. and if Sony keeps thier hold in Japan, and if the Revolution is gonna be as great as Nintendo speculates, then I dont think we'll see Microsoft in the running much longer. (granted they hold to thier word that is.)

As long as Nintendo is bringing in money through thier portable systems they will continue to pump out the consoles. and with Franchises such as Mario, (Mario based games such as SSB, MK, MP, ect...), Zelda, Metroid they will have a good grasp on the market.

 

[<π]

Oh boy, don't get me started...

too late... here, rant of my own...

1. Nintendo, unoriginal? Please.
Nintendo invented the cart racer (Mario Cart), Nintendo invented the futuristic racer (F zero), Nintendo invented the side scroller (Mario) and the first adventure game (Zelda) and the first game staring a female in the lead roll (Metriod) the first truly 3D interactive game (Mario 64) Nintendo is a company of firsts, each and every game that come from them (or even games they produce) prove to be original and innovative. And I dare anyone to argue this point with me…

2. The Cube
The Cube's graphics of course don't compare with the Xbox. Anyone with a list of specs could tell you that. So, that point isn't even worth arguing, but when it comes to graphics the cube cannot not be counted out. Not only should the realistic "mature" games be counted, but games like Wind Walker, amazing lighting and great animation and game physics, and games like Mario sunshine, brilliant textures and some of the most amazing water affects to wind up in a game to date. in games like Pikimin people refuse to take the enormous amount of polygons on screen solely because of its "cartoony look" Even in smash take, seriously take the time out to zoom in and look around, only on rare occasions can you spot a sharp edge out of place (oh and Gannon has no teeth by the way; warlock punch and take a look)
Nintendo always produces the Best quality Games, Even in ones that don’t sell as greatly anyone who has played them will tell you of the time and effort put in. Nintendo doesn’t skimp out.

3. PS2 and Sony
I have big issues with Sony… big issues. I have gone through 2 PS2s of the crappily constructed systems and even now… my newest one is broken. Sony is and always will be cheap when it comes to the Playstation serise, there is no doubt in my mind regarding that fact, and just for all those non-belivers; no 3rd or 4th person controller port, the systems fan only moves dust around, and the system itself is very delicate and easily broken. All of Sony’s first party disappoint me with the exception of a few. The company relies solely on 3rd party businesses to sell their system. If, and I believe this to my core, Nintendo and Square never had their disagreement there would be no Sony (At least not as it is today) and Sega would still be making gaming systems. Sony is a big poo head who cares very little about their consumers, luckily for them most have yet to notice…
But I must admit a few things, because of the PS2’s earlier release it beat out both of its opposing systems in 2 areas: sales (this one greatly effects/effected the next) and 3rd party games. Many a great game has come out on the PS2… still hate Sony though…

4. Xbox and Microsoft
I don’t have to big and issue with the Xbox or Microsoft. The system was designed well great power and they actually took time out to think about the people who buy their stuff. A neat feature, I think, are those nifty break away cables made to prevent gamers from tripping over the cord and hurting themselves, the controllers, or the system itself. The system is by all technical stats better than the GC but on the other hand it was made with different things in mind. This bad boy has a hard drive (that means you don’t need to buy a mem card to continue a game) and can support both CD and DVD media. The consumer has the option of online play right out of the package (provided they have hi-speed internet)
But, (and this is a big one) the games really disappoint me… Sega is one of the few companies I’ve seen that is actually taken the power of the system and put it to use, but besides them there third party is just as weak as the cube if not more so. Now the big sellers of the system are the Halo and… Halo2 most hardcore Xbox gamers really only have these games waiting to be played and of course the online play is really all that keeps them coming back. (Luckily with Xbox live Microsoft is getting money from those kiddies)
In short Great system but lacking great games…

5. Handhelds
Oh boy… gotta talk about Sony AGAIN… but I’ll wait a while till I do…
The Game Boy is the first thing that comes to most educated gamers minds when you say handheld; Nintendo revolutionizing this field as well. What started with the Game and Watch grew into the biggest marketer of handhelds in the world.
The Game Boy series is a great one in the Nintendo fashion it tailors to the consumer, fairly price (despite complete domination of the market) enjoyable to play and of course durable. In fact the later additions have been made to protect the screen and buttons even more so. The frist party games for this system (and anyone will tell you) are great ranging form classic Mario style scrollers to games like the again innovate Pokemon and Mario 64 DS. Since the introduction of the Advance RPG were rapidly produced for the system both 1st and 3rd party and to date thanks to backward compatibility the advance has more games than any other system made.
But then something bad happened, other companies noting Nintendo’s success thought, “Hey, I can make money doing that” and then the N-gage was born. A horrible system; (An okay concept though) this thing had a horribly small vertical screen which made actually playing the game a daunting task, small buttons only added to the frustration. And you actually had to remove the battery to change games. But most casual gamers never even got that far, all content with their Game Boys ^_^
The DS a big cause for commotion that had even some of the most loyal Nintendo fans wetting their pants (those big stupid traitors) the DS was supposed to be just some last minute gimmick to counter the mighty PSP sadly for Sony that wasn’t the case. The DS supports GBA games and a new flash memory cartridge (I’ll just call it DS cartridge) and has graphics that match the 64 of old, not bad for a little guy. It’s also has (watch out guys here comes innovation again) 2 screens, hence the name, one of which being a touch sensitive one. This allows for a whole new look at gaming and should prove very interesting to see how developers take advantage of this.
The PSP on the other hand was rushed to keep up with the DS more than a few corners were cut before ironed smooth. The system has superior graphics and a wider screen size but that’s about where the “Pros” end. Touch sensitive buttons mean that the systems controls will become inefficient and less effective over time. And a low battery life (and estimated 3 hours) means you won’t be going too far from a plug if you want to beat a game. I even heard reports of disk ejecting them selves from the system just because of holding it to tightly… not good.
Speaking on that a little more, another big issue in design (IMO) was the decision to use a type of disk media; this is really what kills the battery life. What Sony hoped would sell the system the fact that it plays DVD quality movies would have killed them if they came out and said the truth of it. These movie (even if you own DVD version) must be re-bought in minidisk format before you can walk around watching it, but hell its not like you’d get a chance to look at it too long any was maybe 2 or 3 viewings if you were lucky away from a wall. Stupid Sony… counting on marketing ignorance to sell their product no wonder its doing so poorly in Japan now… can’t wait to see just how many get it once its here…

6. Mario, Zelda, Pika! Oh my…
The best selling video game series in the world belongs to Nintendo in the form of their mascot Mario and only square can truly beat out its other popular franchises with the Final Fantasy Series. Nintendo dominates come back series with each one of its popular charactors. Selling at least a million copies each sale, but this is probably only because of the effort and time but into them since they lack all of the sex, violence, and well I guess that’s really it… that are put into most other successful series. Yes, sry to break it to you but even Final Fantasy has sold itself out with the introduction of FFX, FFX-2 and FFXII. Nintendo has yet to break its values in order to produce sales and I doubt they will for a long time.

I'm a fan boy at heart, sure, but I back up what I'm saying and am open to anyone’s opinions... or lies... Have a ball post as you please

 

[Devilkoopa]

Okay, let me see here:

Yeah, yeah nintendo came up with some pretty origional ideas...BACK IN THE DAY...what you got now? Mario power tennis, mario kart DD, nba st 3 (face it, putting nintendo characters in nba games isnt origional), etc...sure they came up with the most origional ideas ever, but lately, they seem to just continue pumping out sequals and rehashings.

Handhelds? well the DS doesn't have that many games out now, but it will perserve. To be honest this is sort of an undebateable topic at the time, because PSP isnt even out than. You could compare it to n-gage, but why is that even worth mentioning?...even though...ive been hearing some "dissapointments" of the DS

Hell yeah sony products break down alot, but u know what? they have soooo many games on it that i am willing to buy another. (for crying outloud they're the only place u can get rpgs anymore...and dont give me that "Baten Kaitos" thing..

Mascots? yeah, Nintendo wins on that one...but don't think they don't have competion. Nintendo's mascots are aimed at a younger audience while other characters seem to be aimed at an older audience.

Finally, if nintendo doesn't want to produce violent games or "sexual themed" games, they don't have to...don't expect people to buy them though...(if violence is what sells today, that what people will buy today)

I dont worry about nintendo though, because i think that they will get back n their feet in 05' in no time.

 

[<π]

Did you actually read my post...

mario tennis brings new and original ideas to normal tennis games including diffent modes linteresting courses each different and uniquie and a new twist to the game play , plus an abundance of different charactors, and by diffent I mean very different, each charactor has extreemly diffent stats and a speacial move an addition to the Mario Tenis serise.
Mario Kart DD... un original? THis game takes a new spin on the genre nintendo created. the ability to swich between 2 charactors on the fly adding to the complexity of the original.
And buddy, EA Big isn't owned nintendo. Simply because nintendo allows use of its charactor doesn't mean it magically owns the game, but I bet you one thing. THe game cube version will out sell the PS2 and Xbox versions. it will be a repeat of what happened with Soul Caliber 2. You can quote me on that.

To be honest this is sort of an undebateable topic at the time, because PSP isnt even out than

If I could understand this sentence I could say some thing in defence... but hell, I'll give it a go anyway.

Sure the DS doesn't have to many games out 2 months after its release but trust me many are in the works by mid summer you won't know the names of all the games avalible. A new Zelda is in the works as well as a new FF:CC; both I'll call "redos" of the of the multiplayer GC games. It should be interesting to see how these play out with the wireless connection feature. And games like this are only the tip of the ice berg.


RPGs? Yes sony does have Nintendo beat there, like I said before because of volume thrid party developers go to the PS2 and most RPGs with them. but nintendo surely doesn't have 1 rpg. since your so smart I'll let you take the time to the time to look those up yourself.

Mascots?... dude, I was talking about nintendo's popular franchises more so than thier mascots... and how they do sell without have to resort to, as you put it, "violent games or "sexual themed" games"

And so you know Nintendo's feet are fine and they will be for a long time. you can trust me on that ^_^

 

[Devilkoopa]

hehe...i really got to start checkin' my spelling anywho, i agree with you on the DS getting some great new games in the upcoming year and that NBA street Vol 3 being the most popular version of the game (to be honest, i thought it was only on nintendo) and i really didn't mean that there was only 1 rpg...there's uh....Paper Mario 1000yr door thing...uhh..Baten Kaitos, FF:CC (not worth mentioning though ) , Tales of Symphonia...and the rest

One thing though before everyone yells at me: I didn't mean that the idea of Double Dash! was unorigional, but that it was just sort of a (excellent ) remake of a nintendo game with some new features...sort of like an "update" to the game (ex: compare Madden '05 to madden '95 and you'll see what im trying to say) I just want a whole new type of mario game that nintendo hasnt thought of yet (besides Donkey Konga...cause im pretty sure that was the most original idea for a game in the last 5 yrs )


...yeah seriously though...i can only think of maybe 5 or 6 rpgs for GCN...

 

[Raccoon87]

Look at Nintendo's releasing of games. How many of them are just simple sequels or remakes or even half-arsed ports?

I can only think of two franchises that were released this generation that are innovative and out now: Pikmin and Wario Ware.

Back in the eighties, there wasn't really anything.

Now, Nintendo has sort of just fallen behind in innovative franchises.

Nintendo needs some realistic games. How about a real tennis game? I loved Mario Tennis (both N64 and GCN), but I felt it was too wacky.

 

[Flok]

I'll say it again: Nintendo doesn't need realism games.

 

[Mic_128]

That's part of the sheer joy of nintendo. Would SSBM be remotely interesting if you had a REAL plumber. a REAL turtle. A REAL princess? Hell no!

Nintendo are in therer current state for there habbit of breaking the norm, and for that I will stick by them. At least until Shiggy goes.

 

[Raccoon87]

:|

I mean new realistic franchises, not a new Mario. Realism is what's defining the video gaming market. People want to be able to live a different life more than fantasy.

I do applaud Nintendo for their new more realistic games like Another and Lost in Blue, but still, how about a real Tennis game? Or how about a realistic historical simulater where you can do anything along the lines of Civilization?

Flok and mic, you've completely validated my point. Nintendo isn't known for their realistic like games. All of their franchises are fictional. Nintendo needs to embrace the world we live in, not try to create a new one.

Nintendo hasn't broken any norm until now. Tell me the realism in games up until the late nineties. Breaking the norm for them has isolated them. They need a two pronged approach, realistic new franchises with innovation (even if it's innovative for them, a FPS perhaps?) and maintaining their older franchises with the same simple addictiveness that they once had.

 

[Stopsign]

Ah this topic is getting good.

Yeah I sort of agree with Racoon87 on one thing. Nintendo franchises have been getting less and less innovative. So are most of the rest of the companies. You know why. It is because there are a lot less games to come out with that are original nowadays. This is because most of the ideas have already been used. So like many other big software producers they are sticking to there trusted old franchises and new innovative systems that are changing the ways games play. If Nintendo makes new innovations like the DS. Devolpers are going to flock to the system. That is why I think Nintendo will win. I'm not saying that it will happen but you never know.

 

[<π]

u guys are serious arn't you... After the creation of the DS you guys still have the nerve to say something that stupid... nintendo is getting less inivative... bahhumbag...

"I mean new realistic franchises, not a new Mario. Realism is what's defining the video gaming market. People want to be able to live a different life more than fantasy."

I quoted raccoon there. Now if people want such a realistic world when you play video game... why even play them. Okay I know I stretching what your saying a bit, but come on; In real life you can't go around killing aliens or do a double backflip into a dunk. people play games to do things they can't in real life. And that is why the curent nintendo franchises do so well, because they give the gamer what they want good game play.

IMO only slow people need a realistic setting to grab there attention... its like kids with bright colors. IT works... apparentoly there are alot of slow people out there...
(Oh by the way flash some red in front of my and I'll buy what ever your selling! WOO!!!)

 

[dsi1]

i own a ps2 and gc and think of them eqally if i want 2 play online or realistic i turn to ps2 if i want multyplayer with my frends or good quallity i turn 2 gc i dont own a xbox because i have i high powered computer wich is what a xbox is and i have mostly ps2 games because they have varity but gc has playability such as mario piwer tennis and ssbm wich i think at least mario power tennis is a best seller but in the end high powered labtops will rule because
1) they are portable
2)last long if not plaing a movie
3)has GOOD internet
4)easy controls
5)loads of games and unheard of on consels real time stratagy games or rts games such as c&c or command and conquer

 

[Hmoob Koob]

Wait a minute, <3, you believe that people who like realism is slow?...so I'm guessing that people who need fantasy are stupid right? Madden, is pretty close to realism, so everyone who's eyed to that must be slow, or that Metal Gear Solid, a pretty close to realism game is also geared towards slow people am I right?

Reasons why fan's from Sony, Nintendo, or X-Box people annoy me, is because they think "there" stuff is only good while the rest is "garbage". To be quite frank, Double Dash can't even lay a finger on the Gran Turismo series, and I guarantee that GT4 on it's debut will definetly meet the standards, and guess what, it's pretty darn close to realism, but it must be made for slow people only.

I've tried the DS out, and to be quite frank, I think it's pretty good, I've only played Metriod on it, and I got into it for 5mins and I was hooked. To say the least, to which system you like the most will depend upon what games come out for it, that draws your attention the most. Alot of Nintendo fans jumped the bandwagon way back in 1997 just because Final Fantasy VII was comming out for the PS instead of the N64, so it goes to show just how much of a difference a game can and will make.

I think Mario Tennis is cool, the funfactor lvl is great, but it isn't bad sometimes to have some games that are close to realism, I won't lie, I only bought the Game Cube because of SSBM, because that game was just too much fun, and very competetive at that, goes to show how much a game can impact a system. I bought PS2 because of being able to be a dvd player, backward compatible for PSX games, Tekken series, FF series, GT series, the list goes on, I like the PS2 as a whole more because it has more of the games I want, the system that I don't have is the X-Box, because 1. I really dislike their controller, it's made for giant people, and 2. Alot of their games I don't like, I feel like as though alot of their games are PC games being put into the consoles, that's just my feel, of it.

Every system has their own advantage, I really love the fact that these systems will try to flush out new games, given they won't be a totally new revolutionary game since the late 80's and early 90's, not until some new technological breakthrough in video games, but until then, where going to see alot of the same stuff, with just some new added gimics to it.

 

[KoRnyIS]

well, i do think Nintendo does sell out Mario, but they are my personal favorite out of all gaming..i bought Halo(2), not because of the hype or that stuff, but (believe it or not o_O) because i heard the music was great...lol..

(btw, i can't stand it when my friends are playing racing games like NFSU(2), they're all BORING except Mario Kart [and that really old one for snes] or fighting games like Primal Fury..it's okay for a fighting game, but it gets old quick.. i never really liked MK or Tekken much.. and i don't like fighting games <<)

edit: sports games suck <_< ^_^

 

[Cyrahk]

The whole racing Genre section could have been summed up as F-Zero GX pwns all.

EDIT: For those who still haven't figured it out, this post was meant to show how pointless this topic is.

 

[Stopsign]

I agree F Zero does pwn everything else. But for some reason my friends don't like the speed in it. So we don't play it that much. But if I'm bored I ussually pick it up and start using.

Instead of playing F Zero we usually play Mario Kart Double Dash or Timesplitters 2.

 

[Raccoon87]

You want an amazing, non-Nintendo racing game?

One word: Burnout.

That said, I'll still take the shells of Mario Kart 64 over Burnout 2. But I'd play Burnout 2 always before F-Zero GX. I didn't like that game.

 

[KoRnyIS]

F-Zero.. i had that for my N64..that was a good game.. <_<

 

[Cashed]

Since when was this topic titled "Nintendo does racing the best." For one, that statement is wrong. Go play Burnout 3: Takedown on Xbox or PS2.

I hate this topic so much. :|

 

[Cyrahk]

Originally posted by Cashed
Since when was this topic titled "Nintendo does racing the best." For one, that statement is wrong. Go play Burnout 3: Takedown on Xbox or PS2.

I hate this topic so much. :|

So do I, that's why I decided to post that turd of wisdom.

Frankly this topic dosen't have much to go on. Its long, and tells us a lot of what we already know. It's mostly stuff I've noticed, and really it dosen't get too much eye-catching except for the bogus "Videogames increase violence !!!!1!!1!!111!" notion.

I honestly say, its a good essay, but it dosen't do much for me.

It also dosen't touch the online fact. If he had explained to me, even in some sort of shaky explanation why innovation beats Online Multiplayer, I'd be more impressed with the essay.

I know for one that games like Time Splitters Future Perfect are games the Cube is gonna miss out on, and I can surely say that the innovation is gonna have to be pretty **** good to beat mad fun.