Why isn't Brawl+ the competitive standard?

[Crispy4001]

I talked about the scene dying earlier. If these things become the "standard," the scene will die off forever. No major tournament is going to run a mod (this is discounting games like Counter Strike which made a totally new game verses Brawl being used for Melee 2.0).

Major tournaments have already run Project M tourneys. Unless you don't count Smash community tournaments as major tournaments. In which case, you should be asking yourself why the Smash scene isn't dead already.

 

[El Duderino]

I don't understand this mentality of "everything changed in brawl was to ruin it"

Of course they were not trying to ruin it. But they were trying to make the game simpler and easier for new players to pick up. Part of that was taking away or tampering with the tools in Melee to level the playing field for all types of players.

also MK isn't the only character with good "follow up odds". plenty of characters can do it and in many cases there are still guranteed combos at times. but even when there aren't it adds a level of depth of having to read/react to your opponent's action.

My point was MK has far greater odds to follow up than any other character, the majority of which have a much smaller % window of opportunity. Reading and reacting to your opponent's action is not something exclusive to Brawl. It is a HUGE factor in Melee that you are massively downplaying with comments like your free 70% example.

 

[Steam]

Super Smash Bros 64.

That's all I'm going to say. Melee and Brawl aren't the only Smash games. Smash 64 and Melee set a precedent for how teching should be. Brawl took that and said "no, this is how it works, let's make you relearn it" in a way that isn't even sufficient, the point is it's worse in Brawl than it is in Smash 64 and Melee. Why change something that worked just fine before? There is no justification at all for making it different.

Nobody will see eye to eye on it though in this thread. Bias and preferences stink up to high heaven in here, including myself.

just because they made it easy in the first two games means that's how it has to be? are you not allowed to change anything minor? what's wrong with making it so you actually have to time a tech rather than just hitting R in a rather large window? should a ledge be occupied during a get up roll when the character is already rolling on the stage just because that's how it worked?


@duderino- Mk does not have better odds than any other character. reading what your opponent does after a followup isn't as commonplace in melee as it is in brawl because you can't just cancel out of hitstun for free. and even then, in melee a character's options while falling are generally much less with AD putting you into fall special and the lack of things like B-reversaling. in brawl you pretty much have to be able to be ready to cover those defensive options to be abe to do any real damage.

and for the 3rd time the free 70% example was pertaining to brawl with more hitstun. <- READ. BRAWL WITH MORE HITSTUN.

 

[SmashChu]

Major tournaments have already run Project M tourneys. Unless you don't count Smash community tournaments as major tournaments. In which case, you should be asking yourself why the Smash scene isn't dead already.

A Major tournament would be EVO, MLG and maybe CEO. Even Genesis and Pound I would say are not that big. These tournaments will never run Brawl+ or Project M, especially EVO as they see both as a big joke. Even still, with Smash being ousted from most of the big tournaments, I see no reason to continue with it unless there is a big turnaround 9which these mods wont do).

 

[El Duderino]

@duderino- Mk does not have better odds than any other character. reading what your opponent does after a followup isn't as commonplace in melee as it is in brawl because you can't just cancel out of hitstun for free.

I'm sorry that is utter BS. The follow-up game in Melee has everything to do with reading your opponent, same with countering. Being able to cancel of out hitstun doesn't magically make it any more significant. It just means they can attack back sooner, so at a greater range of percents you should consider instead backing off and prepare for the next encounter rather than playing a game of who gets the hit first. That has far more to do with adapting to the game than how well you read your opponent.

As far as MK, his moveset allows him to cut right through these sort of approach limitations Brawl imposed on everyone else. That is just one reason why he dominates. You don't go chasing down MK, he chases down you.

These tournaments will never run Brawl+ or Project M, especially EVO as they see both as a big joke.

I believe his point was most of the bigger, multi-game tournaments are not running Brawl these days anyways so what's the difference?

 

[Crispy4001]

A Major tournament would be EVO, MLG and maybe CEO. Even Genesis and Pound I would say are not that big. These tournaments will never run Brawl+ or Project M, especially EVO as they see both as a big joke. Even still, with Smash being ousted from most of the big tournaments, I see no reason to continue with it unless there is a big turnaround 9which these mods wont do).

These tournaments are not running Melee or Brawl currently - which was the point. Yet they still have active scenes, often larger than many games featured at said tournaments.

CLEARLY these tournaments do not dictate what games have active competitive scenes and and which ones are 'dead.'

It's laughable to even think that EVO would be any sort of determining factor in Project M's success or failure. In the chance that hell freezes over and they include it (you said it yourself, EVO has too much beef with the Smash community as it is), PM still would have had to have found traction through other means [ie: not EVO] to reach that point.

Wishing for development/hype to stop because no "Major" Smash-denouncing tournament will pick it up is a stubborn attitude to take, to say the least. Call this a hunch, but I don't think a desire to be recognized as a 'legitimate fighter' outside the Smash community is what drives the passion behind PM. It's probably not even a secondary concern for the people making it.

I'm not usually this blunt, but I'm just going to say it:
Your argument is entirely irrelevant.

 

[Steam]

I'm sorry that is utter BS. The follow-up game in Melee has everything to do with reading your opponent, same with countering. Being able to cancel of out hitstun doesn't magically make it any more significant. It just means they can attack back sooner, so at a greater range of percents you should consider instead backing off and prepare for the next encounter rather than playing a game of who gets the hit first. That has far more to do with adapting to the game than how well you read your opponent.

As far as MK, his moveset allows him to cut right through these sort of approach limitations Brawl imposed on everyone else. That is just one reason why he dominates. You don't go chasing down MK, he chases down you.


I believe his point was most of the bigger, multi-game tournaments are not running Brawl these days anyways so what's the difference?

in melee it's usually just reading DI, in brawl it's reading DI and reading/predicting their actions. it adds another dimension to the guessing game.

also it isn't MK's rushdown that makes him so good. he doesn't break the approaching barrier so much as he creates a nearly impenetrable one... and it's also very very difficult to follow up on MK as he has many fast moves that have low commitment and cover him stupidly well. but just because things aren't true combos doesn't mean you can't follow up relatively safely most of the time.

 

[Willntdie]

Yeah, I don't think that was the point of it....


I'm trying to watch it, but it's just so poorly done. I'm sorry, but Starcraft players just do it better.

What I get from it is the same tired lines from the people who continuously hold the community back. "i don't have to learn a new game." "OMG, Brawl sucks." It's just childish really.

I talked about the scene dying earlier. If these things become the "standard," the scene will die off forever. No major tournament is going to run a mod (this is discounting games like Counter Strike which made a totally new game verses Brawl being used for Melee 2.0).

EDIT:Just watched vids on Project M and I'm going to say this: go play melee. This is such a joke of a game. Change the physics, sure. But the moves are exactly the same. The remade the stages. This is just a bunch of manchildren who rather than learn and adapt they decide to play the same game again with a new coat of paint.

This has been answered already; P:M isn't a 1:1 copy and offers more than just melee. There's more but I won't preach to you for that. You can continue being ignorant. Now then, do you also bear a grudge towards the Pokemon remakes? By your argument I can say "Pokemon HG/SS is just the same game as pokemon gold/silver but with more pokemon, better graphics and updated content". So everyone should just play Pokemon G/S for the gameboy then. But clearly sales have shown that people do indeed like the feeling of playing something new yet playing something very familiar and nostalgic. There's nothing wrong with learning a new game, but why play something you don't enjoy?

and for the 3rd time the free 70% example was pertaining to brawl with more hitstun. <- READ. BRAWL WITH MORE HITSTUN.

I don't remember that in Brawl+. Melee is also not 1 hit death, that's only isai.

 

[Ghostbone]

and for the 3rd time the free 70% example was pertaining to brawl with more hitstun. <- READ. BRAWL WITH MORE HITSTUN.

lol thinking Brawl with more hitstun would give characters free 70% combos.
Go play 64 where that's actually true.
And stop complaining that they changed the teching window, Brawl didn't improve on the teching window, there's no reason to keep the Brawl way of teching, do you not understand that?

 

[El Duderino]

in melee it's usually just reading DI, in brawl it's reading DI and reading/predicting their actions. it adds another dimension to the guessing game.

Did you forget about Nair, grab, and/or jab? Last time I checked those are all very important ways, in Melee, of breaking away and taking offensive action. That is in addition to good DI of course, among many other things. It is why people love Melee, it all can make the difference. To say Melee is usually just about reading DI is silly.

With Brawl DI is not a factor to the same degree, mostly because the game engine makes it far easier to stay out of peril. Less often are you worried about fighting off the attack, getting back on the ledge, or if on the offense, maintaining the momentum. It's more about making the right choice for the next upcoming mini encounter than placing your opponent in less favorable situations. I wouldn't exactly call it a new dimension to the combat because Melee had those sort of exchanges as well, Melee just had more potential to expand on them. Different type of game.

he doesn't break the approaching barrier so much as he creates a nearly impenetrable one...

Creating an impenetrable one is breaking away the approach limitations, in comparison, other characters have. I don't think he is unstoppable, MK just inherently has an upper hand.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

ITT: Idiots who don't play Melee at a competitive level spouting nonsense about Melee at a competitive level.

 

[El Duderino]

ITT: Idiots who don't play Melee at a competitive level spouting nonsense about Melee at a competitive level.

How's the view up there in your high chair? Nothing personal, I just don't find comments like this at all constructive. You could be the bee's knees or I may even agree with you, but that doesn't change a thing.

 

[Steam]

People don't even understand what I'm getting at. I'm talking about things that would be true combos in melee that aren't in brawl, you can still get follow ups but you have to read their actions. I just don't think the removal of hitstun simply removes all form of depth from that aspect of the game.

@ghostbone- why NOT keep brawl teching? what's so inherently bad about it? and I honestly don't care either way between melee and brawl teching. also IDK for sure about other characters, but lucario would definitely get ******** combos that would pretty much continue until he ran out of stage. characters like Tink, Fox... just about everyone except snake would probably have very good combos that would last a long time depending on just how much hitstun they added. though Stale moves plays a hand in this as well

@grim- I do play melee competitively (or will rather when our monthlies start up again) and actually play it about twice as much as brawl these days because I like it a lot more than brawl. :/

 

[El Duderino]

I'm talking about things that would be true combos in melee that aren't in brawl, you can still get follow ups but you have to read their actions. I just don't think the removal of hitstun simply removes all form of depth from that aspect of the game.

There are more dependable combos in both games, a lot of which go with specific match-ups. Take for instance Link in Melee, poor guy has the misfortune of having stats that are very exploitable for the usuals. But that is what Project M for. The same reasons you are being critical of Melee are exactly what they are to trying to clean up, just without loosing what made Melee the game it is.

I never meant to imply it was all due to the hitstun canceling (just a small part), or that Brawl is completely void of depth, just that Brawl cut quite a bit from Melee in favor of trying something else and putting up a few deterrents like tripping. You can't really fault parts of the community for having a vested interest in seeing PM become recognized on the same level, especially anyone involved with the development. What's old suddenly becomes new (and improved) again.

 

[SmashChu]

These tournaments are not running Melee or Brawl currently - which was the point. Yet they still have active scenes, often larger than many games featured at said tournaments.

CLEARLY these tournaments do not dictate what games have active competitive scenes and and which ones are 'dead.'

It's laughable to even think that EVO would be any sort of determining factor in Project M's success or failure. In the chance that hell freezes over and they include it (you said it yourself, EVO has too much beef with the Smash community as it is), PM still would have had to have found traction through other means [ie: not EVO] to reach that point.

Wishing for development/hype to stop because no "Major" Smash-denouncing tournament will pick it up is a stubborn attitude to take, to say the least. Call this a hunch, but I don't think a desire to be recognized as a 'legitimate fighter' outside the Smash community is what drives the passion behind PM. It's probably not even a secondary concern for the people making it.

I'm not usually this blunt, but I'm just going to say it:
Your argument is entirely irrelevant.

You missed the point. Why am I saying that Smash is dead? This is the core of my argument and any response you make without understanding this will simply fall to the floor. Why have I said this? It's because major tournaments are what makes the dough. Small tournaments do not. The big tournaments bring in new blood, advance the metagame as people will try harder (which is what we saw at MLG) and of course encourage people to keep playing with large sums of money at stake. Sponsers also notice too. I think this is what people forget: Big tournaments help. Without them, fewer people want to keep playing and the metagame is stagnant as there are fewer people trying to change it.

Your problem is you think "It's ACTIVE, so it's OK." But what does active mean? The fact you have a few players here theory crafting or a few small tournaments. It's almost like a shell of its former self.

On project M, the reason they are making it is because Melee fans do not want to move on. No one sees it, but they are continuously what hold the community back. Rather than aadvance Brawl, let's make it Melee. It's a joke as was Brawl+. It may be ran at Genesis or Pound, but those aren't big tournaments and no one outside of this place will care.

This has been answered already; P:M isn't a 1:1 copy and offers more than just melee. There's more but I won't preach to you for that. You can continue being ignorant. Now then, do you also bear a grudge towards the Pokemon remakes? By your argument I can say "Pokemon HG/SS is just the same game as pokemon gold/silver but with more pokemon, better graphics and updated content". So everyone should just play Pokemon G/S for the gameboy then. But clearly sales have shown that people do indeed like the feeling of playing something new yet playing something very familiar and nostalgic. There's nothing wrong with learning a new game, but why play something you don't enjoy?

The difference is that Gold and Silver were 10 or so years ago (not sure the exact times) and the cartage battery dies. Gold and Silver also updated a lot. Project M is taking Brawls skin and put Melee on top of it. It's wolf in sheep's clothing.

Whether you like it or not, people will see it as a 1 for 1 copy. You can argue it till the cows come home, but that's the way it will be.

 

[UltiMario]

Oh, I wasn't aware Melee had 39 characters, 41 stages, and every character was viable.

Well, I guess Project M IS just a pointless 1:1 clone of Melee! Silly me!

 

[Crooked Crow]

Oh, I wasn't aware Melee had 39 characters, 41 stages, and every character was viable.

Well, I guess Project M IS just a pointless 1:1 clone of Melee! Silly me!

Done.

This conversation should be over, now.

 

[Ghostbone]

lol at Pound and Genesis not being big tournaments.

Troll harder SmashChu.

 

[FrozenHobo]

You missed the point. Why am I saying that Smash is dead? This is the core of my argument and any response you make without understanding this will simply fall to the floor. Why have I said this? It's because major tournaments are what makes the dough. Small tournaments do not. The big tournaments bring in new blood, advance the metagame as people will try harder (which is what we saw at MLG) and of course encourage people to keep playing with large sums of money at stake. Sponsers also notice too. I think this is what people forget: Big tournaments help. Without them, fewer people want to keep playing and the metagame is stagnant as there are fewer people trying to change it.

Your problem is you think "It's ACTIVE, so it's OK." But what does active mean? The fact you have a few players here theory crafting or a few small tournaments. It's almost like a shell of its former self.

On project M, the reason they are making it is because Melee fans do not want to move on. No one sees it, but they are continuously what hold the community back. Rather than aadvance Brawl, let's make it Melee. It's a joke as was Brawl+. It may be ran at Genesis or Pound, but those aren't big tournaments and no one outside of this place will care.



The difference is that Gold and Silver were 10 or so years ago (not sure the exact times) and the cartage battery dies. Gold and Silver also updated a lot. Project M is taking Brawls skin and put Melee on top of it. It's wolf in sheep's clothing.

Whether you like it or not, people will see it as a 1 for 1 copy. You can argue it till the cows come home, but that's the way it will be.

 

[Steam]

There are more dependable combos in both games, a lot of which go with specific match-ups. Take for instance Link in Melee, poor guy has the misfortune of having stats that are very exploitable for the usuals. But that is what Project M for. The same reasons you are being critical of Melee are exactly what they are to trying to clean up, just without loosing what made Melee the game it is.

I never meant to imply it was all due to the hitstun canceling (just a small part), or that Brawl is completely void of depth, just that Brawl cut quite a bit from Melee in favor of trying something else and putting up a few deterrents like tripping. You can't really fault parts of the community for having a vested interest in seeing PM become recognized on the same level, especially anyone involved with the development. What's old suddenly becomes new (and improved) again.

cool, It shouldn't replace brawl or melee as a tourney standard though. and if anything does get replaced, it should probaby be melee.

 

[Mr.Jackpot]

You missed the point. Why am I saying that Smash is dead? This is the core of my argument and any response you make without understanding this will simply fall to the floor. Why have I said this? It's because major tournaments are what makes the dough. Small tournaments do not. The big tournaments bring in new blood, advance the metagame as people will try harder (which is what we saw at MLG) and of course encourage people to keep playing with large sums of money at stake. Sponsers also notice too. I think this is what people forget: Big tournaments help. Without them, fewer people want to keep playing and the metagame is stagnant as there are fewer people trying to change it.

Your problem is you think "It's ACTIVE, so it's OK." But what does active mean? The fact you have a few players here theory crafting or a few small tournaments. It's almost like a shell of its former self.

On project M, the reason they are making it is because Melee fans do not want to move on. No one sees it, but they are continuously what hold the community back. Rather than aadvance Brawl, let's make it Melee. It's a joke as was Brawl+. It may be ran at Genesis or Pound, but those aren't big tournaments and no one outside of this place will care. .

I don't think that you realize that if all our Melee discs broke magically broke most of the Melee community would move onto a different game like MvC3 rather than play Brawl.

 

[Willntdie]

You missed the point. Why am I saying that Smash is dead? This is the core of my argument and any response you make without understanding this will simply fall to the floor. Why have I said this? It's because major tournaments are what makes the dough. Small tournaments do not. The big tournaments bring in new blood, advance the metagame as people will try harder (which is what we saw at MLG) and of course encourage people to keep playing with large sums of money at stake. Sponsers also notice too. I think this is what people forget: Big tournaments help. Without them, fewer people want to keep playing and the metagame is stagnant as there are fewer people trying to change it.

You seem to imply that Brawl has a better chance of being received in MLG and other big game tournaments. A game that isn't supported competitively by it's fans let alone it's own developers will never get a chance for these "big tournaments".

I don't think that you realize that if all our Melee discs broke magically broke most of the Melee community would move onto a different game like MvC3 rather than play Brawl.

*nods*
With games like the SFxTekken and a Persona Fighting game in the works... it's something I'm looking forward to rather than the new Smash game. Sorry for straying off-topic.

 

[Crispy4001]

You missed the point. Why am I saying that Smash is dead? This is the core of my argument and any response you make without understanding this will simply fall to the floor. Why have I said this? It's because major tournaments are what makes the dough. Small tournaments do not. The big tournaments bring in new blood, advance the metagame as people will try harder (which is what we saw at MLG) and of course encourage people to keep playing with large sums of money at stake. Sponsers also notice too. I think this is what people forget: Big tournaments help. Without them, fewer people want to keep playing and the metagame is stagnant as there are fewer people trying to change it.

Guys, Project M should be all about the money. Without HUGE cash pools and sponsors the metagame can't develop!

Your problem is you think "It's ACTIVE, so it's OK." But what does active mean? The fact you have a few players here theory crafting or a few small tournaments. It's almost like a shell of its former self.

What makes "ACTIVE" not "OK"?
Project M doesn't have a former self to be compared to. The game's not done yet.

On project M, the reason they are making it is because Melee fans do not want to move on.

Oxymoron. You honestly can't be dumb enough to believe this.

No one sees it, but they are continuously what hold the community back. Rather than aadvance Brawl, let's make it Melee. It's a joke as was Brawl+. It may be ran at Genesis or Pound, but those aren't big tournaments and no one outside of this place will care.

I've never been to a Smash tournament in my life. I care about Project M. It looks like a fun game that 'advances BrawlMelee.' And I'm definately not alone in all of that.

The difference is that Gold and Silver were 10 or so years ago (not sure the exact times) and the cartage battery dies. Gold and Silver also updated a lot. Project M is taking Brawls skin and put Melee on top of it. It's wolf in sheep's clothing.

A wolf in sheep's clothing sounds pretty novel to me.

Regardless, Project M is updating Melee a lot. It's more of a bear in sheep's clothing now. Your problem is that you refuse to look past the sheep skin and assume that a wolf is inside. Project M is a different beast. Though still a predatorial one.

Whether you like it or not, people will see it as a 1 for 1 copy. You can argue it till the cows come home, but that's the way it will be.

I'm a forum mod at well known video game site. I've come to accept that many people are dismissive of games for ignorant, incorrect reasons.

But I still love calling them out on it.

 

[Steam]

Project M has little chance being a sponsored event due to the fact that it's a hacked nintendo game... and nintendo doesn't want their **** hacked... It would be a very dangerous thing to sponsor.

and I agree with a lot of what smashchu said, except the smash community is still alive, both melee and brawl. and There's nothing wrong with the melee community continuing to play melee. and genesis and pound were pretty big tournies.

smash honestly still has the strength to be an MLG event. I still feel like the splitting incident ruined it for us...

 

[Big-Cat]

Like it needs MLG to grow.

 

[Steam]

Like it needs MLG to grow.

It would really help it become more of a mainstream tourney event

 

[FrozenHobo]

Melee was at MLG. it got dropped.
Brawl was at MLG. It got dropped.

Whats your point?

 

[Steam]

Melee was at MLG. it got dropped.
Brawl was at MLG. It got dropped.

Whats your point?

It would help get series of well publicized nationals?

 

[Big-Cat]

It would really help it become more of a mainstream tourney event

Other FG communities function just fine without the help of MLG. What you need is an active community with streaming and maturity (but that's another topic) AND a game where the developers didn't **** on competitive players. Brawl is a boring game to watch, period. At least other FGs can be enjoyed as spectator sports (like I love watching Marvel matches, but I don't really enjoy playing it).

 

[Mr.Jackpot]

Brawl isn't the only active Smash game you know.

 

[El Duderino]

On project M, the reason they are making it is because Melee fans do not want to move on. No one sees it, but they are continuously what hold the community back.

So Brawl and Melee, as games, have nothing to do with it?

Project M is taking Brawls skin and put Melee on top of it. It's wolf in sheep's clothing.

Haha, I've always loved this analogy. That is one resourceful wolf.

 

[Steam]

Other FG communities function just fine without the help of MLG. What you need is an active community with streaming and maturity (but that's another topic) AND a game where the developers didn't **** on competitive players. Brawl is a boring game to watch, period. At least other FGs can be enjoyed as spectator sports (like I love watching Marvel matches, but I don't really enjoy playing it).

but they have things like evo and various sponsorships backing them

smash community does stream. Smash community isn't really that immature, just certain top players have a nasty sense of entitlement so it seems that way. and not everyone thinks brawl is boring to watch. It will certainly be 100 times more interesting with MK banned (if he does get banned) so there's actually some variety to the final matches... and less MK doing what MK does...

 

[El Duderino]

A wolf in sheep's clothing sounds pretty novel to me. It's more of a bear in sheep's clothing now.

Great visual picture. I couldn't help myself:

The crutches are from a nasty tripping accident.

 

[Willntdie]

Project M has little chance being a sponsored event due to the fact that it's a hacked nintendo game... and nintendo doesn't want their **** hacked... It would be a very dangerous thing to sponsor.

and I agree with a lot of what smashchu said, except the smash community is still alive, both melee and brawl. and There's nothing wrong with the melee community continuing to play melee. and genesis and pound were pretty big tournies.

smash honestly still has the strength to be an MLG event. I still feel like the splitting incident ruined it for us...

I think what everyone is trying to say is that Brawl/Melee/PM will never get into MLG because the company that developed it, Nintendo, isn't even supporting it. Even it's own fans don't seem care (Melee fans) and not everyone shows up to tournaments (unsteady attendance). That point being addressed, we are not expecting to see PM suddenly being sponsored as a the next big thing and it is not needed. PM should just be something everyone can play at the current tournaments that still exist today in the Smash community. If you wish hard enough, maybe Nintendo will change their minds and make a competitive smash and support it with new characters/glitch fixes/character nerfs/buffs via patches every few months or so. Then Smash will have a place in MLG with sponsors and everything. Though that is likely never going to happen.



And Duderino... holy ****. ****ing nice.

 

[Mr.Jackpot]

Great visual picture. I couldn't help myself:

The crutches are from a nasty tripping accident.

You're my new favorite Smashboards member.

 

[Steam]

I think what everyone is trying to say is that Brawl/Melee/PM will never get into MLG because the company that developed it, Nintendo, isn't even supporting it. Even it's own fans don't seem care (Melee fans) and not everyone shows up to tournaments (unsteady attendance). That point being addressed, we are not expecting to see PM suddenly being sponsored as a the next big thing and it is not needed. PM should just be something everyone can play at the current tournaments that still exist today in the Smash community. If you wish hard enough, maybe Nintendo will change their minds and make a competitive smash and support it with glitch/character nerf patches every few months or so.



And Duderino... holy ****. ****ing nice.

MLG did pick up brawl (and melee)... the attendance wasn't stellar but it definitely wasn't the only thing that got it cut...

the game itself definitely has the potential... but it doesn't help that MLG couldn't stream brawl :/

And that pic is inaccurate, it should be a genetically altered sheep

 

[Yung Mei]

You missed the point. Why am I saying that Smash is dead? This is the core of my argument and any response you make without understanding this will simply fall to the floor. Why have I said this? It's because major tournaments are what makes the dough. Small tournaments do not. The big tournaments bring in new blood, advance the metagame as people will try harder (which is what we saw at MLG) and of course encourage people to keep playing with large sums of money at stake. Sponsers also notice too. I think this is what people forget: Big tournaments help. Without them, fewer people want to keep playing and the metagame is stagnant as there are fewer people trying to change it.

Your problem is you think "It's ACTIVE, so it's OK." But what does active mean? The fact you have a few players here theory crafting or a few small tournaments. It's almost like a shell of its former self.

On project M, the reason they are making it is because Melee fans do not want to move on. No one sees it, but they are continuously what hold the community back. Rather than aadvance Brawl, let's make it Melee. It's a joke as was Brawl+. It may be ran at Genesis or Pound, but those aren't big tournaments and no one outside of this place will care.



The difference is that Gold and Silver were 10 or so years ago (not sure the exact times) and the cartage battery dies. Gold and Silver also updated a lot. Project M is taking Brawls skin and put Melee on top of it. It's wolf in sheep's clothing.

Whether you like it or not, people will see it as a 1 for 1 copy. You can argue it till the cows come home, but that's the way it will be.

 

[El Duderino]

And that pic is inaccurate, it should be a genetically altered sheep

Well, I though sheep and bears were already pretty genetically different, but here you go:

 

[Steam]

I meant M should be a genetically altered sheep XD

 

[El Duderino]

haha, my bad.