Why is Yoshi low tier?

[Deleted member]

I have roused the application of intellect through my meager samplings of intermediate vocabulary. Excellent.

Well done Atash. Regrettably, Yoshi remains mediocre at best. Perhaps some day he will ascend to mid tier, but I don't foresee that occurring any time soon.

Good **** sir. You are wrong, but that gave me a good laugh haha =D

 

[RyanPF]

I have roused the application of intellect through my meager samplings of intermediate vocabulary. Excellent.

Well done Atash. Regrettably, Yoshi remains mediocre at best. Perhaps some day he will ascend to mid tier, but I don't foresee that occurring any time soon.

You roused the application of intellect through your annoying simulation of intellect.
To your credit, using good vocabulary made your trolling more effective than simply saying "yohsi suks y r u even talking about it."

It's a shame that so few people use Yoshi in tournaments. More results mean more accuracy in determining the strengths, weaknesses, and viability in relation to the other members of the cast. If Yoshi was used as often as Meta Knight, we would know his tier status for sure. But without much data to draw from, we're forced to compare him to other characters on paper. Brawl matches aren't won and lost on paper.

 

[Chaco]

Lawdy guys...we all know the facts of life...random MKs are nooby MKs....they get no soup. NO SOUP FOR YOU!!!

 

[bigman40]

Lawdy guys...we all know the facts of life...random MKs are nooby MKs....they get no soup. NO SOUP FOR YOU!!!

but I haz pizza! ^_^

 

[Lord Exor]

Simulation of intellect? You wound me, dear.

 

[JOE!]

I think its because mastering Yoshi is comparativley much harder to do.

For example: MK you could win by tornado>tornado>shuttle>dsmash or the like,

with yoshi, you need: aimed egg>aimed egg>throw in some tilts>some arials>brinng hah>hit your f-smash>ko if you got the guy high enough %

a *very* generalized statement, but I think alot of it comes from the lack of good/decent yoshi players as opposed to the other chars, hes just harder to pick up and play :/

 

[Jiggy]

JOE!'s gots a points everyone ^.^

MK is (in WoW terms) an "iWin" button if you do it right ^.^ The only thing that can match a cheap Meta Knight is another cheap Meta Knight.

Yoshi on the other hand, requires much more skill to use. Could use three moves as MK, or all of Yoshi's moves. I'd rather use all of my resources than kicking than teasing the cow's udder.


EDIT: Oh, and MK dude, we are honored that lowly mortals such as ourselves have been graced with your presence ^.^

 

[bobson]

I'd hardly call yoshi's projectile amazing

No way. Eggs are totally amazing. They're like PK thunder would be if PK thunder was totally amazing.
I use eggs more than I use fireballs, and I use fireballs so much you'd think they were free whores. I wouldn't say they're as annoying as, say, Snake's grenades or Pit's arrows, but having eggs means that every time you get a few feet away from your opponent you have a free chance at adding some damage on them. Their range is huge for how well and how quickly you can aim them.

Yoshi has a lol-inducing priority.

What's this about? I routinely clash with opponent's attacks when I'm using Yoshi.

Do you play Yoshi? Cause grounded down B kills at 100, or a bit lower.

Woah, there's a difference? Does it stale the same as aerial down B?

His shield. Shielding is critical in Brawl, and Yoshi is terrible at it. Still, I think he should be low-mid.

What's wrong with his shield, specifically? I know you can't jump or attack out of it, which is annoying as hell, but is there anything else?

Yoshi's recovery is easily gimpable, just not from footstools. The SA frames are only in the beginning of the jump. One MK Dair, or a hit from PKT, or just an edgehog, and you're done. The boost you get in the air from eggs isn't anywhere near enough to compensate for the lag afterwards, so you have to be right under the ledge for it to be of any use. He no longer has a directional airdodge to help him out, while everyone else in Brawl has an improved recovery. You simply cannot compare his recovery to that of MK's, ROB's, Pit's, Sonic's or even Snake's.

People still think Yoshi's recovery is bad? Let me say this as a Mario main who gets most of his kills from gimps: Yoshi's recovery is NOT trivial to gimp, no matter who you're playing as. A well-played Yoshi will very very rarely get gimped unless he makes a mistake, unlike the case of, say, an Ike or a Link. It's not an unstoppable recovery like Metaknight's, but it's by no means bad and is certainly not a factor prevalent enough to make Yoshi low tier. I'd put him on the same level as Snake if Snake didn't have that annoying C4 recovery.

Why is Yoshi low tier? Well, perhaps it is due to the incontrovertible fact that the irksome dino is an atrocious excuse for a character. Just because you are capable of implementing a few gimmicky stratagems does nothing to ensure Yoshi's viability.

Exor, my vexatious little darling, though your pseudo-intellectual and periphrastic demeanor does much to exaggerate the aggravation of your nettlesome assertions, your argument is distinctively lacking in even a semblance of verisimilitude, and is as such rendered ineffectual in rousing the wrath of the fine members of the Yoshi forums. Yours are otiose posts, but could perhaps be redeemed should you resolve to feign an argument in support of your impetuous averments; I would suggest attacking Yoshi's recovery, if I may--an easily disproven argument, but an effective cause of dispute nonetheless.



What are Yoshi's "horrible" matchups, and why are they horrible?

 

[Killer Napalm]

bECAUSE HIS BIG AZZ NOSE GETS IN THE WAY OF HIS ABILITY TO FIGHT

 

[Gindler]

Because of his bad recovery.

I'm serious, this is by far the most viable reason a character can be considered bad. Look at Olimar. He has insanely good match-ups against a lot of the top tier and high tier characters, but where is he really? In Mid. Answer? His crappy recovery. It knocked him down from Top/High to a measly Mid.

You can fight against it as much as you want - but Yoshi's recovery is bad. Just compare it to the rest of the top tier... Meta Knight has multiple jumps and 2 glides, ROB. is ROB., D3 has multiple jumps and a killer, SA frames UpB, G&W has a virtually ungimpable recovery, Falco's is.... mediocre, when compared to the rest, but at least has more than two jumps.

I'm not saying that a good recovery makes a character mid tier instantly: some characters have better recoveries but are arguably worse characters, and therefore lower on the tier list.

Yoshi definitely has a lot going for him, though... Although, he gets outshined by better characters. He's good in plenty of fields, but not great in ALL fields, and that's what makes a top or high tier character.

There's someone who thinks falco has a better recovery than yoshi

 

[bigman40]

There's someone who thinks falco has a better recovery than yoshi

Lolz, that's a first. I swear the people who ridicule Yoshi are getting worse and worse

 

[Lord Exor]

I would be remiss to neglect extolling your sterling command of the English language, Bobson.

Affectation aside, you dare insinuate that I would deign concern myself over such minutae.

Yoshi's innate ineptitude begets his failure to perform; this truth necessitates no further elucidation.

 

[Gindler]

I would be remiss to neglect extolling your sterling command of the English language, Bobson.

Affectation aside, you dare insinuate that I would deign concern myself over such minutae.

Yoshi's innate ineptitude begets his failure to perform; this truth necessitates no further elucidation.

I guess you want me to say you boggled my mind with your immense brain power and vocabulary. So...you boggled my mind with your immense brain power and massive vocabulary.

But yeah, we're not working hard enough or something

 

[E.G.G.M.A.N.]

I still say it's because of his mediocre kill power. He doesn't have any reliable moves that kill most people under 100% (no down B is not reliable, you have to be right on top of them just to use it and it kills at like 120% or something on average, which is fairly high) and he isn't particularly fast either.

 

[Shiri]

Wow, you guys are doing it wrong.

The correct answer to the question, "Why is Yoshi low tier?" is this.

He's not.

You guys are so bad at these riddle games! I'm never playing them with you guys again! >:O

 

[pidgey14]

Why does this sorta thread look so familiar... oh yeah.

Sorry, I'm not getting involved in this, don't like these threads.

PS. I lol'd at the hate on Yoshi's recovery and how it "sucks."

Bye bye *wave* tell me when these threads are finally over.

 

[__V]

Yoshi is a filler-character, so he sucks. His only purpose in each game is to fill one space of the roster.

 

[Wildfire393]

Really, now.

He's fast, he's powerful, he has a decent approach, an amazing projectile, a good recovery, a chaingrab on a nice chunk of the cast, a uair rivaling Snake's utilt for brokenness, a nice grab game, okay matchups against most of the top tier (even Metaknight!), nice priority (his shoes stop Samus' fully charged charge shot, what the hell is up with that), grab release shenanigans, he's good on the ground, good in the air (he's faster than friggin' Jigglypuff!), and he can summon super armor whenever he so chooses without largely interrupting his game.

His only real downfalls I can see are his lack of Metaknight dsmash-caliber killing moves (except for uair) and his shield. I also don't like his taunts much. So I ask you, Yoshi mains, what are his weaknesses? Why isn't Yoshi up there with the likes of Lucario and Diddy Kong?

Let's break this down:

He's fast - Not especially. His ground speed is low, his falling speed is low, his jumping speed is low, and most of his attacks are fairly slow.

He's powerful - Again, not so much. None of his moves bar Uair can really even be remotely considered kill moves. This ranks pretty low on the power scale to me.

He has a decent approach - Not arguing with you here, the Bair is fairly good. But "decent" is not the same as "amazing". I mean, Mario has "decent" just about everything, and he's one of the most definitively bottom-tier characters there is.

An Amazing Projectile - It's alright. It lacks the ability to KO, it's fairly easy to avoid (like Din's Fire), it's damage-racking capabilities are limited. Amazing projectiles are ones like Snake's grenades that are incredibly versatile and can KO or like Falco's Laser which is insanely spammable for damage and hard to avoid.

A Good recovery - Lack of a third jump really hurts him. If the opponent is good at predicting air-dodges and has a decent off-stage game, Yoshi is one of the most-easily gimped characters in the game.

Chaingrab on a nice chunk of the cast - Can't argue with you here really. But a chain-grab alone does not make a character good, especially given the quality of his grab.

Uair rivalling Snake's Utilt for Brokenness - I really, really disagree. Yes, it has decent KO power, but not on par with Snake's Utilt goodness. Additionally, part of what makes Snake's Utilt so broken is its godly range. Yoshi's Uair has a quite small hitbox, meaning that it just does not measure up in this department.

A Nice Grab Game - Having the slowest shield-release means he lacks the ability to shieldgrab effectively. He also has one of the shortest-ranged ranged grabs in the game, giving him all of the speed disadvantages of a ranged grab without really the benefits of a huge range.

Okay matchups against most of the top tier including metaknight - The character matchup chart lists yoshi as having an unfavorable matchup against most of the top tier including metaknight. But let's assume that having the chaingrab turns it into a slightly above even matchup for Yoshi (60-40) or so, for argument's sake. This gives him Falco and Meta, which is only 2 out of the 6 top tier, which is not "most". If we expand it to top and high tiers, he gets Diddy and Wario, making it 4/16.

Nice priority - I'd think more of this if he had the range to go with it.

Grab release shenanigans - Ties in to grab game/chaingrab.

Good on the ground - I disagree. Movement speed is not great, Smashes are pretty much too slow for use, grab has problems, shield has problems, Tilts are OK.

Good in the Air - Less of a disagreement here. Air game is pretty much limited to Bair, Uair, and Nair, however, and the Uair really needs to be saved for kills. Lack of multiple jumps and a non-jump mode of recovery means he also doesn't have a good edgeguard game, meaning his air game is less worthwhile.

Summon Superarmor - Sort of. His "armor" doesn't stop all flinching/knockback, and if you're hit by something hard enough to flinch you through your armor, you probably just lost a stock.

Lack of KO move - This is big. When Sheik can get KOs easier than you can you know there's something wrong.

Shield - Also big. In a game so defensive, have a bad defensive option like this is a major impediment.

 

[pidgey14]

Yoshi is a filler-character, so he sucks. His only purpose in each game is to fill one space of the roster.

And this is why I hate these sort of threads.

wake me up when it is over. For now...

 

[Gindler]

Let's break this down:

He's fast - Not especially. His ground speed is low, his falling speed is low, his jumping speed is low, and most of his attacks are fairly slow.

He's powerful - Again, not so much. None of his moves bar Uair can really even be remotely considered kill moves. This ranks pretty low on the power scale to me.

He has a decent approach - Not arguing with you here, the Bair is fairly good. But "decent" is not the same as "amazing". I mean, Mario has "decent" just about everything, and he's one of the most definitively bottom-tier characters there is.

An Amazing Projectile - It's alright. It lacks the ability to KO, it's fairly easy to avoid (like Din's Fire), it's damage-racking capabilities are limited. Amazing projectiles are ones like Snake's grenades that are incredibly versatile and can KO or like Falco's Laser which is insanely spammable for damage and hard to avoid.

A Good recovery - Lack of a third jump really hurts him. If the opponent is good at predicting air-dodges and has a decent off-stage game, Yoshi is one of the most-easily gimped characters in the game.

Chaingrab on a nice chunk of the cast - Can't argue with you here really. But a chain-grab alone does not make a character good, especially given the quality of his grab.

Uair rivalling Snake's Utilt for Brokenness - I really, really disagree. Yes, it has decent KO power, but not on par with Snake's Utilt goodness. Additionally, part of what makes Snake's Utilt so broken is its godly range. Yoshi's Uair has a quite small hitbox, meaning that it just does not measure up in this department.

A Nice Grab Game - Having the slowest shield-release means he lacks the ability to shieldgrab effectively. He also has one of the shortest-ranged ranged grabs in the game, giving him all of the speed disadvantages of a ranged grab without really the benefits of a huge range.

Okay matchups against most of the top tier including metaknight - The character matchup chart lists yoshi as having an unfavorable matchup against most of the top tier including metaknight. But let's assume that having the chaingrab turns it into a slightly above even matchup for Yoshi (60-40) or so, for argument's sake. This gives him Falco and Meta, which is only 2 out of the 6 top tier, which is not "most". If we expand it to top and high tiers, he gets Diddy and Wario, making it 4/16.

Nice priority - I'd think more of this if he had the range to go with it.

Grab release shenanigans - Ties in to grab game/chaingrab.

Good on the ground - I disagree. Movement speed is not great, Smashes are pretty much too slow for use, grab has problems, shield has problems, Tilts are OK.

Good in the Air - Less of a disagreement here. Air game is pretty much limited to Bair, Uair, and Nair, however, and the Uair really needs to be saved for kills. Lack of multiple jumps and a non-jump mode of recovery means he also doesn't have a good edgeguard game, meaning his air game is less worthwhile.

Summon Superarmor - Sort of. His "armor" doesn't stop all flinching/knockback, and if you're hit by something hard enough to flinch you through your armor, you probably just lost a stock.

Lack of KO move - This is big. When Sheik can get KOs easier than you can you know there's something wrong.

Shield - Also big. In a game so defensive, have a bad defensive option like this is a major impediment.

Sigh, guess I'll break this down too:

He's somewhat fast, his groundspeed (running) is right behind diddy/marth (tell me they're slow, sure they're not shiek). only slow attacks I can think of are Fsmash and maybe Usmash, tilts and jabs and most aerials are quite quick. and we all know about air speed, well maybe you don't

Yeah he's not powerful, but since you said Nades can KO and if they count as a kill move then heck almost anything can (they kill at what 160%?).

Great recovery, ask any character main who likes to gimp (MK, marth, sonic) and they'll tell you he's not very easy to gimp unless the yoshi is just bad.

Ummm, quality of his grab? pivot is about as fast as standing and has the length or a ranged grab. and it's even higher quality if that's what almost makes the matchup with MK somewhat even.

Yeah, good in the air. He's fast there, great aerials. Sure he doesn't have multiple jumps, but when you have a second jump that goes about as high as 4 of the multijumpers jumps then who cares. and yes yoshi can edgeguard, have you seen a rising Nair? guess not.

Uair will never be as broken as snake's Utilt.

Very nice grab game, crappy shield grab game but great grab game. Who else can grab snake easily in the middle of a mortar slide? idk, but i do it all the time with the pivot.

Good on ground...yeah smashe's are limited, Dsmash is fast and rangey though. Tilts are awesome, jabs are awesome, grabs are awesome (unless it's standing which is all you apparently know about).

I always find a way to get someone into my Uair, or spike...

Yeah OOS game sucks, hence why I don't go in my shield unless it's at the last second or a nado's coming...

Sorry other yoshi mains, just had to slap him with a lil' knowledge.

 

[Mmac]

He's fast - Not especially. His ground speed is low, his falling speed is low, his jumping speed is low, and most of his attacks are fairly slow.

What are you talking about? Slow Movement Speed? He matches of even those of Diddy and Marth! His Falling Speed is average, His Jumping speed on his First Jump is also average, not low, and his Double Jump has tons of momentum, And his Attacks are anything but slow. In fact the majority of his moves are 6 Frames or less.

He's powerful - Again, not so much. None of his moves bar Uair can really even be remotely considered kill moves. This ranks pretty low on the power scale to me.

You forgot Usmash, Fsmash, and Rising Hit DownB. But yeah, he ranks pretty low in the power department. Still he gathers up damage very well, and has a good edgeguarding game so it doesn't really bother me that much

He has a decent approach - Not arguing with you here, the Bair is fairly good. But "decent" is not the same as "amazing". I mean, Mario has "decent" just about everything, and he's one of the most definitively bottom-tier characters there is.

There's more than just Bair you know.

An Amazing Projectile - It's alright. It lacks the ability to KO, it's fairly easy to avoid (like Din's Fire), it's damage-racking capabilities are limited. Amazing projectiles are ones like Snake's grenades that are incredibly versatile and can KO or like Falco's Laser which is insanely spammable for damage and hard to avoid.

I wouldn't consider Yoshi's projectile "Amazing", but it's still very versatile, and works great at anti-air and counter spam. It also works well as a standard projectile, and can screw over some people's recoveries.

A Good recovery - Lack of a third jump really hurts him. If the opponent is good at predicting air-dodges and has a decent off-stage game, Yoshi is one of the most-easily gimped characters in the game.

Oh god, not again. Why can't anyone get the concept of Yoshi's Recovery? If it WERE that simple to intercept, then it would be as clear as day and we won't be praising it so much.

It's not that simple at all. You are looking at the DJAD like every other Airdodge in the game, but it's NOTHING like any other airdodge in the game. During his Double Jump, not only does he get the best horizontal movement in the game, he also gains the best vertical movement in the game! That means he is virtually uncatchable by ANY Character! Also it doesn't matter if you are MetaKnight, ROB, Dedede, or whoever else with an excellent edgeguarding game, because they all remain the same. They all only have ONE CHANCE to edgeguard him. Because Yoshi has the freedom to airdodge at any given time, that one chance probably only has a 1% chance of actually hitting. This is why his recovery is so good, because he can bypass any edgeguarding game with ease regardless of the character.

His Recovery is far from the worst. Infact, He's probably one of the BEST Recoveries in the game.

Chaingrab on a nice chunk of the cast - Can't argue with you here really. But a chain-grab alone does not make a character good, especially given the quality of his grab.

If you consider 7 Zero Death's on those including Falco and Snake (Too bad Snake is a ***** to chaingrab) and multiple Heavy damaging attacks and combos release, as well as the CG that puts him in a very awkward position of "Low Quality", than so be it

Uair rivalling Snake's Utilt for Brokenness - I really, really disagree. Yes, it has decent KO power, but not on par with Snake's Utilt goodness. Additionally, part of what makes Snake's Utilt so broken is its godly range. Yoshi's Uair has a quite small hitbox, meaning that it just does not measure up in this department.

It's good, but I wouldn't say it's as broken as Snake's Utilt. Hell, I wouldn't say it's broken period.

A Nice Grab Game - Having the slowest shield-release means he lacks the ability to shieldgrab effectively. He also has one of the shortest-ranged ranged grabs in the game, giving him all of the speed disadvantages of a ranged grab without really the benefits of a huge range.

If you can ignore the fact that his Shield Grab is complete garbage, then yes, his Grab Game is indeed one of the best out there (You don't even have too anyways). His Dash Grab is actually THE Longest Grab in the game, no joke. It also comes out very quickly, although the afterlag is pretty bad if missed, but you shouldn't miss anyways.

Better Yet, His Pivot Grab is one of the best Grabs in the game, PERIOD. It has the properties of a Melee Based Grab, but is ranged, and is practically unpunishable. It also has more range than his Shield Grab, and completely covers his crappy shield game

Okay matchups against most of the top tier including metaknight - The character matchup chart lists yoshi as having an unfavorable matchup against most of the top tier including metaknight. But let's assume that having the chaingrab turns it into a slightly above even matchup for Yoshi (60-40) or so, for argument's sake. This gives him Falco and Meta, which is only 2 out of the 6 top tier, which is not "most". If we expand it to top and high tiers, he gets Diddy and Wario, making it 4/16.

You are looking at the outdated one aren't you. Besides, even if he doesn't excel by having tons of advantage matchups, he only has Six, SIX Disadvantaged Matchups, where only one is major. Even some of them like Falco and ROB are Questionable, so he could wind up with even LESS Disadvantaged Matchups. Plus you are completely ignoring the neutral matchups. Do you know how many characters would pray for Neutral Matchups against MetaKnight, Snake, AND Dedede?!?

Nice priority - I'd think more of this if he had the range to go with it.

Except he DOES have the range to back it up

Good on the ground - I disagree. Movement speed is not great, Smashes are pretty much too slow for use, grab has problems, shield has problems, Tilts are OK.

See the Movement part above. If you count a 4, 8, and 11 Framed Smashes too slow, than I guess he's too slow. Grab is anything but problemed, Shield does, but Pivots completely cover it.

Good in the Air - Less of a disagreement here. Air game is pretty much limited to Bair, Uair, and Nair, however, and the Uair really needs to be saved for kills. Lack of multiple jumps and a non-jump mode of recovery means he also doesn't have a good edgeguard game, meaning his air game is less worthwhile.

1. He doesn't need Multi Jumps because he can chase so well. You also forgot Dair.

2. Still don't understand his concept of his recovery eh?

Summon Superarmor - Sort of. His "armor" doesn't stop all flinching/knockback, and if you're hit by something hard enough to flinch you through your armor, you probably just lost a stock.

You completely missed the concept of his armour. His Armour is not suppose to support his Recovery anymore (Thats his Airdodge's Job), but rather used in an offencive to counter his aerial attacks, depending of the character of course

Lack of KO move - This is big. When Sheik can get KOs easier than you can you know there's something wrong.

I highly doubt Sheik has an easier time killing than us

Shield - Also big. In a game so defensive, have a bad defensive option like this is a major impediment

Except his Grab Game, once again, Completely covers his Shield game, with Invincibility framed Smashes to back it up. Yoshi is unique that way. Just because his Shield Game is completely garbage, doesn't mean his overall Defencive Game is completely garbage, or even bad in general

 

[bobson]

For the record, my opinion on uair has changed since I started using Yoshi against people who weren't sandbags.

Eggs are still amazing, though.

 

[YoshiGuy123]

I'd hardly call yoshi's projectile amazing, his safe kill moves are nothing special, and I'd disagree about his approach being all that great as well. not that he should be always approaching, I think the fact that he can actually shield grab some of the better spacers in the game is one of his redeeming traits.

as for diddy and lucario, diddy can do retardedly gay things with bananas and is a really fast character and lucario is a walling machine that gets way too powerful if you avoid your opponents best kill moves and DI correctly, both can actually combo which is rare in this game and have solid recovery. both of them have much more clear strengths than yoshi

Well, since i am a Yoshi main I guess I can explain.

First some common knowledge that everyone should know about tiers is that the data is based on matchups, techniques and ability, and CPU tourny results. Yoshi is an overall good character because if used properly yoshi's projectile can be one of the best in the game. Yoshi fairs well against a lot of other characters including meta knight but also has a few weaknesses. because of how hard it is to control Yoshi people look at him as a crappy character and go with noobish lucario cuz he is easy on the other hand. Yoshi has combo moves of his own along with some good strong moves but is overall on the weaker side just a little bit. Yoshi's matchups are o.k. and CPU tournys I think are not a good way to test characters because they are totally stupid. His techniques can be somewhat difficult and hard to execute while someone ilke Diddy has easy combo's and techniques. With decent speed and overall ability I think he should be place much higher than he is but not too high because of the amount of people who cannot control him well.

 

[YoshiGuy123]

Let's break this down:

He's fast - Not especially. His ground speed is low, his falling speed is low, his jumping speed is low, and most of his attacks are fairly slow.

An Amazing Projectile - It's alright. It lacks the ability to KO, it's fairly easy to avoid (like Din's Fire), it's damage-racking capabilities are limited. Amazing projectiles are ones like Snake's grenades that are incredibly versatile and can KO or like Falco's Laser which is insanely spammable for damage and hard to avoid.

A Good recovery - Lack of a third jump really hurts him. If the opponent is good at predicting air-dodges and has a decent off-stage game, Yoshi is one of the most-easily gimped characters in the game.

Lack of KO move - This is big. When Sheik can get KOs easier than you can you know there's something wrong.

Wrong, it is a pretty amazing projectile NOT IN TERMS OF K.O., NEVER, EVER compare yoshi's projectile to snake's because snake i all about projectiles. As for the good spammy ability of it then it is almost perfect because Falco cannot jump shoot jump shoot like yoshi can constantly jump and throw eggs. you can also keep airbourne people up in the sky with its good spammy value, not to mention the good range it has.

You have to be kidding me, he is just as fast as diddy and faster than lucario who people don't seem to have a problem with his speed so i disagree. Falling speed is average because once again still a little faster than lucario and if not it is the same. first jump is average no slower than lucario and his second jump gains a ton of altitude.

People don't seem to get it about his recovery. His recovery A.K.A. second jump cannot be stopped by many many attacks. Gaining a lot of altitude from his jump is key so people don't try to stop him.

Now you know you are stupid when you say something like that. Maybe in melee but never in brawl is sheik stronger than Yoshi.

 

[JOE!]

"lol footstool gimps him"

footstool usually can gimp any recovery

"his projectile is meh at best..."

He has the only real arcing projectile, he can hit you behind cover :D

"he's slow"

not really, over-B has insane speed and out-prioritizes most attacks (except some projeciles) if you need ground speed, and i think his horizontal air speed is the best of anyone...
also, his low fall speed allows for better recovery options, as well as Air attacking

 

[Atash]

Good **** sir. You are wrong, but that gave me a good laugh haha =D

Was that a necessary statement...?

I have roused the application of intellect through my meager samplings of intermediate vocabulary. Excellent.

Well done Atash. Regrettably, Yoshi remains mediocre at best. Perhaps some day he will ascend to mid tier, but I don't foresee that occurring any time soon.

Much appreciated. I also thank you for clarifying your views on Yoshi's potential.

You roused the application of intellect through your annoying simulation of intellect.
To your credit, using good vocabulary made your trolling more effective than simply saying "yohsi suks y r u even talking about it."

It's a shame that so few people use Yoshi in tournaments. More results mean more accuracy in determining the strengths, weaknesses, and viability in relation to the other members of the cast. If Yoshi was used as often as Meta Knight, we would know his tier status for sure. But without much data to draw from, we're forced to compare him to other characters on paper. Brawl matches aren't won and lost on paper.

Lord Exor gave a reasonable response (minus the 'arousal of intellect') to my post. I don't think he deserved that first part about the trolling. I'm thinking that it would have been more applicable prior to my message, if any time at all...

Lawdy guys...we all know the facts of life...random MKs are nooby MKs....they get no soup. NO SOUP FOR YOU!!!

That sounds a lot like flaming - not discussion... Not to say that boards were ever meant to be free of flaming, I just mean to say that the idea of this thread seemed to have been a bit more purposeful than for flaming.

Exor, my vexatious little darling, though your pseudo-intellectual and periphrastic demeanor does much to exaggerate the aggravation of your nettlesome assertions, your argument is distinctively lacking in even a semblance of verisimilitude, and is as such rendered ineffectual in rousing the wrath of the fine members of the Yoshi forums. Yours are otiose posts, but could perhaps be redeemed should you resolve to feign an argument in support of your impetuous averments; I would suggest attacking Yoshi's recovery, if I may--an easily disproven argument, but an effective cause of dispute nonetheless.

I would be remiss to neglect extolling your sterling command of the English language, Bobson.

Affectation aside, you dare insinuate that I would deign concern myself over such minutae.

Yoshi's innate ineptitude begets his failure to perform; this truth necessitates no further elucidation.

In terms of message length, I'd have to say that bobson bested you, Lord Exor. However - seriously, can we please just cut out entirely any further flames? Just, I dunno, the way the discussion is going seems to be meaningful now...

Yoshi is a filler-character, so he sucks. His only purpose in each game is to fill one space of the roster.

That quote makes me wonder then... Why was it that Nintendo left us a rectangular roster in Super Smash Brothers Melee that was missing its bottom left and bottom right corners? This is actually a serious question, and, had I the will I'd just be PMing you the question rather than writing it here, but... I'm much too lazy for that. I apologize.

1. He doesn't need Multi Jumps because he can chase so well. You also forgot Dair.

2. Still don't understand his concept of his recovery eh?

Just a little thing I think I want to clarify... The way Wildfire worded it has lead me to believe he means that Yoshi doesn't have an off-of-the-edge game. As in, even with the amazing recovery, he can't play there as long as other characters could. My imagination of the scenario is something like having Yoshi be just off of the edge with a floaty character, say, Jigglypuff (an incredibly disbalanced example, but it's difficult for me to think of any other character as being stationary in theoretical space). If Yoshi tried to hit Jiggs more than one or two times with his up or side aerials when chasing off of the edge, he'd have to initiate a full recovery to get back to the stage. Regardless of how easily or not easily he can be gimped, that still gives him a con for any sort of whiffed attack, especially if the other character manages to follow Yoshi down as he's falling further to the red zone - his 'must-recover-now' area (a double jump + egg hop vertical distance down from the edge). The threat of a backfire in the form of a stage-spike from one's own off-the-edge-game in my mind is a comical (for your opponent) form of playing Russian roulette.

Attacking once or twice only does however allow him the luxury of returning to the stage, depending on how fast he pulls off the attacks (and once is all that's required for a killer spike). However (too many howevers in this paragraph already), any more than that and his actions are asking for punishment of wasted time upon returning to the stage - something normally allocated to those recovering from a near-KO move.

Again, that's only what I believe Wildfire meant. If the scenario I described above is incorrect, please clarify it to me. I'd be most appreciative.

Anyway, my (meaningless) thanks goes to those who recently came up with nice points with regards to Yoshi's various strengths and weaknesses. Thanks!

 

[Charizard92]

Why is Yoshi Low tier?

The same reason PT is low tier: Many problems against several characters, a glaring weakness, and most importantly, low popularity.

 

[Mmac]

Why is Yoshi Low tier?

The same reason PT is low tier: Many problems against several characters, a glaring weakness, and most importantly, low popularity.

Care to share how many people he has troubles with, and his "Glaring" Weakness?

 

[Deleted member]

Lol you guys are all so silly. Why talk about a character you dont know very much about. Its like me talking about lucas, i have played some good lucases, but really i dont know as much as lucas mains know about their character, so i dont try and say im more knowledgable than them.

 

[ArowYoshi]

Why is Yoshi Low tier?

The same reason PT is low tier: Many problems against several characters, a glaring weakness, and most importantly, low popularity.

i dont think Yoshi has any "glaring weaknesses". he has weaknesses yes, but people think there much more evident than they are. like how we are "easily footstooled" or somethin of the like. think of this, lets just say that Yoshi IS easily footstooled, how many times are you going to catch a GOOD Yoshi player below you offstage? his second jump has great vertical distance and will most likely place the yoshi player higher than you anyway. and if we have to climb right pass our opponet no one seems to grasp the fact that we can simply air dodge right by, and Yoshi's horizontal air speed is faster than EVERYONE'S meaning we will be far past you when you miss your edgeguard attempt. also if we get back fast enough we can turn right around and edgeguard you, or at least throw a few eggs your way.

i myself dont think any character has "glaring" weaknesses, just subtle ones. people who think this will be surprised when this glaring weakness turns out to be easily doged or turned around.

my oppinion as to why Yoshi is low tier is his unpopularity, and its easy to see why because it seems everyone besides actual Yoshi players think he sucks and ill admit that i was one of them. this misguided oppinion of Yoshi has driven people to steer away from him because now its all about making money and not about actually playing a game to get good at it, so people want the fastest way to get money without taking the time it SHOULD require. (this is a HUGE generalization i know, so please dont take it personally.) this statement isnt just directed towards Yoshi.

 

[Airborne]

i dont think Yoshi has any "glaring weaknesses". he has weaknesses yes, but people think there much more evident than they are. like how we are "easily footstooled" or somethin of the like. think of this, lets just say that Yoshi IS easily footstooled, how many times are you going to catch a GOOD Yoshi player below you offstage? his second jump has great vertical distance and will most likely place the yoshi player higher than you anyway. and if we have to climb right pass our opponet no one seems to grasp the fact that we can simply air dodge right by, and Yoshi's horizontal air speed is faster than EVERYONE'S meaning we will be far past you when you miss your edgeguard attempt. also if we get back fast enough we can turn right around and edgeguard you, or at least throw a few eggs your way.

i myself dont think any character has "glaring" weaknesses, just subtle ones. people who think this will be surprised when this glaring weakness turns out to be easily doged or turned around.

my oppinion as to why Yoshi is low tier is his unpopularity, and its easy to see why because it seems everyone besides actual Yoshi players think he sucks and ill admit that i was one of them. this misguided oppinion of Yoshi has driven people to steer away from him because now its all about making money and not about actually playing a game to get good at it, so people want the fastest way to get money without taking the time it SHOULD require. (this is a HUGE generalization i know, so please dont take it personally.) this statement isnt just directed towards Yoshi.

i agree; it's not the characters with the "glaring weaknesses" but the players themselves.....

 

[Airborne]

i agree; it's not the characters with the "glaring weaknesses" but the players themselves.....

actually, i mean the players that aren't working to rid of their weaknesses.... XD

 

[Charizard92]

OK, Obviously the lack of third jump and forced switching doesn't count. OK, ignore the word glaring.

 

[Lord Exor]

Quantity is immaterial.

 

[ArowYoshi]

Quantity is immaterial.

when a list that uses tourney standings is involved then it is. if a certain character has like 3,000 people attending tourneys, then its tourney standings will be greater than one who has 500 people attending tourneys... well generally speaking

 

[RyanPF]

Some good points being made. I don't think popularity (or the lack of it in this case) is the entire reason for Yoshi's under-appreciation but it does play a factor. It just occurred to me that none of the cast from SSB 64 is considered any higher than mid-tier. (Correct me if I'm wrong) Maybe it's a completely crazy theory, but I think that a lot of players are simply tired of playing with the same old characters. The top tier is at least half characters new to Brawl!

Would anyone else agree that Yoshi is simply underplayed and underdeveloped?

 

[ArowYoshi]

i noticed that same thing, and have come to a similar conclusion. the new characters have been created with current metagame in mind, the old characters cant really change all to much without losing their identity.

and im not meaning to say that Yoshi's tourney standings are the only reason as to his tier list placement, but its the largest contributer of all things in mind IMO.

 

[JOE!]

Some good points being made. I don't think popularity (or the lack of it in this case) is the entire reason for Yoshi's under-appreciation but it does play a factor. It just occurred to me that none of the cast from SSB 64 is considered any higher than mid-tier. (Correct me if I'm wrong) Maybe it's a completely crazy theory, but I think that a lot of players are simply tired of playing with the same old characters. The top tier is at least half characters new to Brawl!

Would anyone else agree that Yoshi is simply underplayed and underdeveloped?

Definatley underplayed

Like I said earlier, hes a hard character to get used to, compared to everyone else, he has a very weird moveset..

most players will get fed up with trying to learn to play him and just jump to a more comfortable/easier character

That being said, the payoff is that a good yoshi player can take on any char in the game
(general consensus is that yoshi has a slight misadvantage, neutral or slight advantage [in terms of like 4.5:5.5, etc] against all but 3 characters)

 

[Deleted member]

Definatley underplayed

Like I said earlier, hes a hard character to get used to, compared to everyone else, he has a very weird moveset..

most players will get fed up with trying to learn to play him and just jump to a more comfortable/easier character

That being said, the payoff is that a good yoshi player can take on any char in the game
(general consensus is that yoshi has a slight misadvantage, neutral or slight advantage [in terms of like 4.5:5.5, etc] against all but 3 characters)

Any good player can pick up yoshi in a day and be pretty good with him. Yoshis matchups arent so great

 

[Shiri]

YOU'RE ALL DOING IT WR--

Actually, I'm going to interrupt my soon-to-be regularly scheduled trolling to disagree with you here, Sockz. I have yet to see any player in 64, Melee, or Brawl (of varying skill levels--all the way up to whatever your definition of 'amazing' may be) pick up Yoshi having read about his techniques and quirks beforehand and been comfortable with him, much less good with him.

Many MANY tournament players from Melee would do any tier one dollar money matches "except for my yoshi lol"--and these were people willing to go into battle with Mewtwo and Bowser and ****. Like, come on. Am I saying he's unusable? Of course not. Picking him up in a day, though? I think maybe some of the more open-minded and mentally agile players could, but I have yet to see people with those qualities on a national level in terms of skill at this game or the others.

I dunno, I know he's much less difficult than he was in Melee (man, I go back and play that game every now and again...I don't know how I played Yoshi in that game, geez >_>) and maybe being "pretty good with him" is different from being an actual tournament level Yoshi, but even my old training buddy who wins low tier tournaments with his Yoshi still doesn't feel comfortable with him. "Too gooey," he says. Maybe not the best description, but something like that, yeah. I dunno, I'm probably looking too deeply into what you're saying. Something just didn't sit right with me when I read that. o_0;

Looks like I'll have to troll tomorrow in a few hours.