"Why is this stage banned?" A Q&A regarding stage legality

[ruin`]

The peach one isn't that Strong. The DK one is certainly harder to stop.

not a problem when u MK bruh bruh

 

[-LzR-]

Well DK won't do that against MK duh. It's the most effective against Falco. Falco can hardly do anything to stop DK if he has an advantage.

 

[DMG]

Falco's like that against a lot of characters. Get an advantage over him and he generally cannot overcome it.

 

[-LzR-]

List me da characters that can do it without planking stuff.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Shouldn't have to. The ledge is that strong of a position against falco.

 

[-LzR-]

Yes but there is this thing called LGL that makes thing a little more complicated.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Well duh. >.> I swear to god though, Jiggs-Falco would be like 60-40 (yes, jiggs has advantage) on neutrals because Falco could never assault her on the ledge. Part of why I hate LGLs that don't only affect MK.

 

[DMG]

Wario at around 100% with Falco starting on a fresh stock. Wario runs after getting a hit or two or runs regardless. Falco is at a disadvantage because he doesn't chase Wario very well/he doesn't have the tools to stop him (in a similar fashion to Dair camping Falco with a lead as MK, but with better mobility and escape options)

 

[Flandre_Scarlet]

I though this was very interesting to read.

 

[Patchouli Knowledge]

I'm glad you put Onett in the second section. But if people keep being noobs and staying in those "not in center / hiding spot" places it'll be placed in the banned section in no time. >.< And yes, I know this is an old thread.

 

[DMG]

Shame on you sir... Shame on you.

 

[sunshade]

Since this thread is now linked to in the official Q&A thread are there any suggestions for how I can make the OP better?

 

[Tesh]

Whats checkpoint camping and how does it work? The few times I've played Green Hill Zone, the checkpoint moves around after its been hit. So how exactly do you camp it without going through your opponent?

 

[sunshade]

I think thats just an example of people improperly using the word camping. Calling it Check point abuse will probably better represent the actions taking place.

I don't find the check point to be an issue in the slightest myself.

 

[SupaSairentoZ7℠]

I think thats just an example of people improperly using the word camping. Calling it Check point abuse will probably better represent the actions taking place.

I don't find the check point to be an issue in the slightest myself.

Agree on that.

 

[Ghostbone]

It's not the check point camping/abuse that gets the stage banned anyway, it's the walk-offs.

 

[Tesh]

The OP list checkpoint camping.

 

[Ghostbone]

The OP list checkpoint camping.

Eh true but it's like Corneria.

Sure the small blast zones might be a problem, but it's dwarfed by the fin camping, it's just mentioned for extra merit.

 

[SupaSairentoZ7℠]

Eh true but it's like Corneria.

Sure the small blast zones might be a problem, but it's dwarfed by the fin camping, it's just mentioned for extra merit.

Hmm, interesting.

 

[Tesh]

I really don't think blast zones being close is a problem. If that is the case then RC, Brinstar, Halberd and Delfino should all be banned too.

 

[SupaSairentoZ7℠]

I really don't think blast zones being close is a problem. If that is the case then RC, Brinstar, Halberd and Delfino should all be banned too.

Seems there would be too much trouble concerning the blast zone limits...

 

[sunshade]

The OP does not say Walk-off camping as a reason it is banned. The quote from AA says that people mention it but the main reasons are the same as Mario Circuit. If it was one of the reasons for banning it would be written in lime green.

Although I will edit it to correct any confusion

Edit: OP fixed

 

[Tesh]

Exactly why is Skyworld banned? Specific reasons?

 

[Ghostbone]

Exactly why is Skyworld banned? Specific reasons?

MK's too powerful there.....

 

[Tesh]

That can't REALLY be the reason though right? Why isn't it legal in low tier or mid tier tournaments then? Or MK banned events? How exactly is MK too strong here anyway? Just because of his amazing recovery and stupid drill rush tricks?

 

[Ghostbone]

That can't REALLY be the reason though right? Why isn't it legal in low tier or mid tier tournaments then? Or MK banned events? How exactly is MK too strong here anyway? Just because of his amazing recovery and stupid drill rush tricks?

Well it probably should be legal at tournaments without MK, it's just nobody would know how to play on it so it probably wouldn't go over well with most of the entrants.

He's broken because of his recovery and tornado.

 

[SupaSairentoZ7℠]

Those spawning breakable platforms would be the problem. /=

 

[sunshade]

I have actually played a lot of matches on skyworld and I don't actually think metaknight is better on skyworld than he his on brinstar or port town. His runaway game is improved beyond what it is on a typical stage but its not as bad as distant planet.

Moving skyworld into category 2.

Those spawning breakable platforms would be the problem. /=

Sadly stages changing is not a valid reason to ban a stage.

 

[Ghostbone]

I have actually played a lot of matches on skyworld and I don't actually think metaknight is better on skyworld than he his on brinstar or port town. His runaway game is improved beyond what it is on a typical stage but its not as bad as distant planet.

Hmm, in my experience he's a lot worse than on Brinstar or PTAD. At least those stages have characters that do reasonably well against him. Skyworld is basically bad for every character against him.

 

[sunshade]

Hmm, in my experience he's a lot worse than on Brinstar or PTAD. At least those stages have characters that do reasonably well against him. Skyworld is basically bad for every character against him.

I will admit my experience was is primarily in doubles when playing on the stage, but the only parts of his game that I felt were improved by the stage was tornado (which is no less punishable), and his recovery relative to the rest of the cast.

 

[Ghostbone]

Tornado makes him almost impossible to approach though, plus the way hitting the platform extends your hitboxes or whatever is really good for him.

Tornado is even better than on Luigi's Mansion, since on LM you can quickly tech to get out of the way, on Skyworld not so much....

 

[sunshade]

Hmm, next chance I get I will try using it to stuff approaches more. (I will also try some actual 1v1 matches >.>).

The hitbox extension was not an element of the stage I was attempting to utilize, I will make note of that.

 

[Ussi]

I thought skyworld was banned for being entirely breakable surfaces and semi-cave of life?

 

[sunshade]

I want to find and maul whoever started this whole "cave of life is a worthy of a ban" thing.

Cave of life is not the reason for the banning of any stage in brawl or melee. The issue is almost always, circle stall, overly skewed match-ups, or randomness.

 

[SupaSairentoZ7℠]

I have actually played a lot of matches on skyworld and I don't actually think metaknight is better on skyworld than he his on brinstar or port town. His runaway game is improved beyond what it is on a typical stage but its not as bad as distant planet.

Moving skyworld into category 2.




Sadly stages changing is not a valid reason to ban a stage.

Yes I know. I mean that is just my most hated thing about the stage. I know something little like that would be little reason to banning Skyworld.

 

[Ghostbone]

I want to find and maul whoever started this whole "cave of life is a worthy of a ban" thing.

Cave of life is not the reason for the banning of any stage in brawl or melee. The issue is almost always, circle stall, overly skewed match-ups, or randomness.

Well a cave of life is usually associated with circle camping, so stages with circle camping were often listed to have a cafe of life...and I guess it was viewed as a ban criteria, despite it never actually being the sole reason (or the main reason) to ban a stage.

 

[DMG]

I thought skyworld was banned for being entirely breakable surfaces and semi-cave of life?

Skyworld's main problem is that Circle camping is prominent here across the cast.

I want to find and maul whoever started this whole "cave of life is a worthy of a ban" thing.

Cave of life is not the reason for the banning of any stage in brawl or melee. The issue is almost always, circle stall, overly skewed match-ups, or randomness.

Cave of life is a problem, but it tends not to be the main reason for a stage to be banned. Spear Pillar for example: even if you took away the ability to circle camp here by cutting the stage into only the lower half existing, the cave would still be sufficiently detrimental to gameplay to warrant a ban. However, worrying about the cave of life usually isn't even considered because of the rampant circle camping problem.

 

[Tesh]

I'm pretty sure no one has proof that a cave of life is detrimental to gameplay. It just happens that almost every single cave of life in the game means there is also a circle to camp.

 

[DMG]

It's hard to prove the cave itself is a problem when people focus more on running around it or past it in a circle. If you had a stage that completely stripped circle camping, but had a prominent cave, it would be more evident. But they tend to be accompanied by some of the most ridiculous stage layouts possible for allowing circle camping. Whoever came up with Spear Pillar, Pork Town, etc was brilliant lol.

As you said though, it doesn't really matter much because stages with that feature tend to have circle camping painfully present anyways.

 

[DanGR]

If circle camping is the issue, why isn't Smashville banned? <.<