Why is Forward Throw and Up Throw rarely used?

[AnchorTea]

I could be wrong, but it seems like back throw and down throw are the throws that are used the most, and while that is understandable (b-throw has high damage and d-throw can follow up with combos) it rather seems a bit odd that the two other throws aren't used as much. Maybe players don't see them useful in any way? I wouldn't think so. I always thought forward throw was more situational (and with two characters, a kill move. ) I haven't really seen up throw as useful, but I guess it is situational just like forward throw. I guess. Maybe up throw depends on the character? (Palutena's up throw can be used as a slightly-effective kill move)

There is no way only two throws can be useful. There is got to be some sort of specialty when it comes to the forward throw and up throw.

 

[Deleted member 269706]

It's purely situational. Dthrow tends to lead into combos, making it one of the best for building up damage, whereas back throw is great in terms of knockback and damage output. In 90% of scenarios, you're trying to do one of two things...(1) Get a kill, or (2) build up damage in order to get a kill. It simply makes no sense to push an opponent away with no intention of killing them or following up on what you're doing to them. With that said, certain characters are able to kill and get follow ups with Fthrow and Uthrow (*cough*Diddy*cough*) so you'll see those characters utilize those throws more often. In the end, it all depends on the character.

 

[DarkBlueSpark]

I could be wrong, but it seems like back throw and down throw are the throws that are used the most, and while that is understandable (b-throw has high damage and d-throw can follow up with combos) it rather seems a bit odd that the two other throws aren't used as much. Maybe players don't see them useful in any way? I wouldn't think so. I always thought forward throw was more situational (and with two characters, a kill move. ) I haven't really seen up throw as useful, but I guess it is situational just like forward throw. I guess. Maybe up throw depends on the character? (Palutena's up throw can be used as a slightly-effective kill move)

There is no way only two throws can be useful. There is got to be some sort of specialty when it comes to the forward throw and up throw.

You're wrong, or maybe it's just me, cuz I use Up throw and forward throw quite a lot. Though I guess that's cuz my whole playstyle is centered around grabbing, so it looks like I use them a lot.

 

[AnchorTea]

It's purely situational. Dthrow tends to lead into combos, making it one of the best for building up damage, whereas back throw is great in terms of knockback and damage output. In 90% of scenarios, you're trying to do one of two things...(1) Get a kill, or (2) build up damage in order to get a kill. It simply makes no sense to push an opponent away with no intention of killing them or following up on what you're doing to them. With that said, certain characters are able to kill and get follow ups with Fthrow and Uthrow (*cough*Diddy*cough*) so you'll see those characters utilize those throws more often. In the end, it all depends on the character.

Couldn't F-throw be used for spacing? If you fling your opponent, you get a good space between him/her, so could it work for spacing?

 

[Indigo Jeans]

FThrow and UThrow have nearly nonexistent KBG meaning you cant use them for much aside from getting breathing space and keeping BThrow fresh when you land a grab in a situation where it wouldnt KO.

Thats my opinion anyway. I rarely use DThrow as it is.

 

[Pyr]

Couldn't F-throw be used for spacing? If you fling your opponent, you get a good space between him/her, so could it work for spacing?

Depends. If they go too far away, you give up your advantage. If they don't, you can combo out of it. If they go between these 2 lengths, it can end up leaving you in an advantageous situation, or it can reset things to neutral.

 

[1FC0]

Upthrow is awesome and possibly my most used kill move.

 

[FullMoon]

Greninja's Up-Throw sets up combos, gets the enemies in the perfect place for Greninja to abuse his amazing advantageous state and can also kill.

In fact I rarely see Greninja's B-Throw being used

 

[Jigglymaster]

As we all know, D-throw is a combo starter for a good portion of the cast, F-throw and B-throw have their uses if you want your opponent to go to a certain part of the stage or away from it depending on which way you're facing.

As for Up-throw, for most character's its a throw that sends the opponent in the same direction as D-throw but doesn't combo. Some characters like ROB can kill with it so it's useful for him, other character's d-throw doesn't combo or send them up, so that gives them a use for U-throw as well. But thats about it.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

It just so happens that dthrow and bthrow are the most useful throws for a majority of the cast. Simple as that.

 

[Shaya]

Sheik's using fthrow.
Everyone who has a burst horizontal movement option tends to be using F/Bthrows, even if they're not guaranteed, they reliably set up into these moves.

Up throws tend to be 90 degrees and are scaling at a different rate in which they're more useful than dthrows at certain points (Diddy, Pikachu, I'm sure many others, just people haven't fully explored them).

I like to fthrow quite a bit on these characters:


And that's just characters I -play- not the entirety of the cast.
A lot of these forward throws are a mixture of very fast, high(er) damage and/or low knockback scaling, making them always somewhat relevant to use.

I poorly DI'd a forward throw from Falcon once at the ledge of smashville as ZSS (it was at apex :<), dying at <40% due to his high rage.
People are generally always expecting dthrows for their DIs, but the mixing up with f/b throws can have positive results because of it.

 

[popsofctown]

Couldn't F-throw be used for spacing? If you fling your opponent, you get a good space between him/her, so could it work for spacing?

That's not what spacing means.

 

[AnchorTea]

That's not what spacing means.

Sorry my bad.

 

[Deleted member 269706]

Couldn't F-throw be used for spacing? If you fling your opponent, you get a good space between him/her, so could it work for spacing?

Well if you have them in a grab, there's no reason to space them when you could follow up and deal more damage or get a kill. I suppose at certain percentage it would work for spacing, but seems unnecessary.

 

[Shaya]

Sorry my bad.

What you're looking for is "positioning". Fthrow/bthrows are great because the give you a positional/stage advantage.

 

[popsofctown]

Sorry my bad.

Spacing is about putting your opponent in an optimal horizontal range where your physical attacks are overall good options and your opponent's physical attacks are overall weaker options. Unless you're at 0-20% when you have free dthrows anyway, fthrow and backthrow both will easily push your opponent far beyond your character's optimal spacing, so it's not really a spacing maneuver. After using throw it will take use of your movement options to get into the spacing you want, so which throw you use to push them far beyond your optimal spacing is a wash.

I think you're thinking of throwing your opponent really far so you can perform projectiles or a charge move, which is a different concept from spacing, that's just camping.
EDIT: Shaya ninja'ed me, you are repositioning them to help with your camping. Of course if you can get them offstage or abovestage and use that as an advantaged state that's just a form of juggling.

 

[LancerStaff]

Bthrows are harder to use to KO because you'd have to be in a risky position already. Most characters' most damaging throws are usually the combo or kill throws already.

On the topic of Pit's throws, they are all pretty useful. Fthrow KOs, Dthrow combos, Uthrow does the most damage and leads to juggles/arrows if Dthrow won't combo, and Bthrow combos into an arrow on a missed tech and leads to gimps because of the low angle.

 

[Indigo Jeans]

Ohhhh this is about throws in general. Here I was thinking this was in the Villager board

Dthrow is normally useful because it seems they werent programmed taking into account the fact that the immediate bounce sort of counts as another hit or a missed tech. What I mean is that DThrows are commonly effective for setting up other attacks because while the victim is stuck in hitstun for a considerable amount of time youre wrapping up your animation due to them getting bounced on the floor. Im willing to bet that if their DThrows had launch angles that would send targets in the same direction they normally would, but WITHOUT having them ricochet off the floor to achieve this, Diddy Kong and ZSS would lose their followup options, or at the very least be unable to land them within the same percent ranges.

Anyway Rosalinas UThrow is fantastic. It reliably sets up UTilt and USmash at lower percents and UAir at higher ones.

 

[digiholic]

I think it depends on character. On Mega Man and Ness, DThrow is for combos and BThrow is a kill move, the others aren't as useful, but on Captain Falcon and Dark Pit, the forward throw is the combo tool, so I use it more.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Ohhhh this is about throws in general. Here I was thinking this was in the Villager board

Dthrow is normally useful because it seems they werent programmed taking into account the fact that the immediate bounce sort of counts as another hit or a missed tech. What I mean is that DThrows are commonly effective for setting up other attacks because while the victim is stuck in hitstun for a considerable amount of time youre wrapping up your animation due to them getting bounced on the floor. Im willing to bet that if their DThrows had launch angles that would send targets in the same direction they normally would, but WITHOUT having them ricochet off the floor to achieve this, Diddy Kong and ZSS would lose their followup options, or at the very least be unable to land them within the same percent ranges.

Anyway Rosalinas UThrow is fantastic. It reliably sets up UTilt and USmash at lower percents and UAir at higher ones.

...please don't tell me you can tech basically every dthrow ever. Please.

 

[Sean²]

It just so happens that dthrow and bthrow are the most useful throws for a majority of the cast. Simple as that.

This is the most truthful post in this thread. Wario's Fthrow is a KO move. Duck Hunt's best grab is Fthrow because it combos into dash attack at lower percents.

Dthrow for most cast members drops the opponent either close enough on the ground for a followup/tech chase regrab (G&W, Wario) or at an easy trajectory to get a combo off (Ness, Diddy, Mario, etc.)

 

[sogeki]

Actually, there are a lot of characters that use upthrow for combo starters.
*COUUUUUUGH*

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

Which throws you use when is extremely character dependent; I have to clarify that to start. All throw decisions are completely informed by what your particular character's throws actually do.

That being said, with many characters, using more uthrow is kinda a "strong player" tell. Up throws are often harder combo starters than down throw but many times better, creating juggle situations with either forced combos or extremely strong chases. In addition to everyone @ sogeki listed (who are all correct), up throw is also a fantastic starter for Rosalina and Sonic that I know about and probably a lot more characters I'm less familiar with. Up throw is also a kill throw on several characters; R.O.B. is the most obvious case, but characters like Marth and Link also kill earlier with uthrow than with other throws from center stage. Uthrow of course becomes an enhanced kill throw option on platforms, and likewise, uthrow on Kirby, Meta Knight, and Charizard has that jump up and then dive effect that can be situationally useful especially when stage movement is concerned.

Fthrow on most characters is something you use to chuck people off-stage when you don't have a better throw reward available. It's pretty common to grab people when their backs are to the ledge (it's a position most people shield a lot), and fthrow is often a higher than average damage throw that will put them off-stage and give you a good position. On some characters dthrow can do similar or even better things, but on many others, the angle on dthrow is worse than fthrow for this.

 

[thehard]

What Ampharos said, and also keep in mind u-throw and f-throw can be used in doubles to set up team combos

 

[Raijinken]

It's very worth noting that a Little Mac player will hate you forever if you uthrow them in center-stage, where they thought they were relatively safe from the ledge. Keep the juggles going and watch the frustration build as their percent does.

 

[Teh Sandwich]

Sonics fthrow will kill at high percents. At like 160%

 

[stancosmos]

I could be wrong, but it seems like back throw and down throw are the throws that are used the most, and while that is understandable (b-throw has high damage and d-throw can follow up with combos) it rather seems a bit odd that the two other throws aren't used as much. Maybe players don't see them useful in any way? I wouldn't think so. I always thought forward throw was more situational (and with two characters, a kill move. ) I haven't really seen up throw as useful, but I guess it is situational just like forward throw. I guess. Maybe up throw depends on the character? (Palutena's up throw can be used as a slightly-effective kill move)

There is no way only two throws can be useful. There is got to be some sort of specialty when it comes to the forward throw and up throw.

Some throws are better than others? when confronted with an option of which throw to use, you should always pick the most beneficial. Knockback if you're going for a kill or stage control, or combo potential for damage. Sheik uses her UThrow for a quick Up air, and potentially chain grab. Marth's upthrow is his only kill throw as well. Sheik also uses the Fthrow for easy comboing and i find it to be her best throw as it can start rather large combo chains and even combo into bouncing fish. I occasionally use falcons FThrow at 0% to follow up easy with a dash attack, just to mix it up if the opponent i expecting a Dthrow to Uair combo.

Most characters have their BThrow as their kill throw, as it's to be assumed that throwing back would be throwing a player towards the oposite side of the stage and it's supposedly harder to grab someone and be facing the wrong direction at the edge. DThrows usually have low knockback and put the oponent into a falling animation which makes them great for combos. Most characters stick to those two because theres very little else you should be doing in smash other than damaging and killing. The reason UThrows aren't kill moves is because it doesn't matter where you're facing you'll always be just as close to the top, the reason they don't combo is it would have to throw you very low which would potentially make chain grabs.(think melee marth). Fthrows are usually just weaker BThrows, for the same reason BAirs do more than FAirs. Harder to land correctly.

 

[AnchorTea]

I like all the knowledgeable responses. I guess Fthrow and Uthrow is better than I thought.

I assume that the reason they're underrated is that they seem a bit not-so-useful at first right?

 

[stancosmos]

I like all the knowledgeable responses. I guess Fthrow and Uthrow is better than I thought.

I assume that the reason they're underrated is that they seem a bit not-so-useful at first right?

Depends on the character. For most there's better throw options, but for a few characters they are much more useful. Personally i almost always throw little mac up, because i know he has no landing options so he's easy to juggle and read his air-dodges/counters.

 

[Lavani]

Logistically, considering that forward/back/up throws send the opponent toward blast lines while down throws bounce them off the ground, it only makes sense that dthrow is the combo throw for many characters - ergo, dthrows are a popular throw. Bthrow tends to be stronger than fthrow for reasons already mentioned by someone else, in terms of both damage and knockback, but depending on facing and stage position it doesn't always make more sense to bthrow over fthrow.

But, largely, it's character dependent. use uthrow for starting combos; among others use uthrow to kill; has an easier time landing kill combos off fthrow than dthrow due to less time for the opponent to react and DI and sliding during the throw off a dash grab, also has combos off fthrow, have fthrow>Crescent Slash with customs on, kill with fthrow...for the most part fthrows are just for positioning though.


I can probably do a better job at explaining why you see certain throws more with a more specific character example though, so let's take . You'll see Meta Knights use dthrow a lot, because it sets up for both damage-racking and kill combos. Bthrow is his only throw with a horizontal launch angle (fthrow launches diagonally upward) and is tied with uthrow for his most damaging throw at 10%, so it's the throw of choice for getting the opponent offstage. It also leads into dash attack combos at low percents. If he grabs an opponent right at the ledge, facing the ledge, he has no combo followups and no throws that send the opponent horizontally forward; uthrow is then the throw of choice for building damage and not throwing the opponent back toward center stage. Uthrow also serves as a kill throw - particularly when below platforms, as Meta Knight will land on them before throwing - and the descent's hitbox also lets him kill off Luma/pikmin with the throw. Fthrow only combos into Shuttle Loop, but it's much more reliable for it than dthrow is due to the faster throw animation giving the opponent less time to DI, and as a bonus it does 2% more than dthrow. Point being, all of Meta Knight's throws have a use, it just depends on the situation - and it's the same for many other characters.

tl;dr - It depends on both situation and the character, dthrow and to a lesser extent bthrow merely tend to be the better/more applicable throws for many characters.

 

[HeavyLobster]

I find Fthrows are used decently often for stage positioning. Uthrows, on the other hand, are not very useful for a lot of characters because they usually don't combo as well as Dthrow or provide as good positioning as Fthrow or Bthrow. They also usually aren't kill throws, nor do they outdamage other options most of the time. Uthrows that do perform one of these functions effectively see a fair amount of use, but Uthrows usually are the least useful throws. A lot of this has to do with floatier Brawl/Smash 4 physics, as Uthrows in Melee were quite good and comboing/juggling off of them was easier.

 

[DavemanCozy]

Highly depends in characters.

Dthrow tends to be a combo setup for a lot of characters, but there are exceptions.

Wario, for example, uses dthrow as his way of a superior back throw, since it sends them behind him in a lower angle that is harder ro recover from.

Also, Up throw is a KO move with Link, and a situational setup throw for Shulk.

So: it's honestly character dependent.

 

[DanceLouisDance]

I usually use f throw and upthrow when i dont feel like throwing them off offstage, and those throws usually catch them off guard, not knowing what to do leaving them open for a few seconds. but they all usually do the same damage so it depends on which one sends them farther back or where you are facing to get them off stage.

 

[BestTeaMaker]

For Charizard, you'll see a lot more B-throw since he can move out of it. D-throw is used mostly as a kill move because of its high knockback. U-throw is useful for stages with high platforms or transformations (Delfino/Skyloft/TC/DH). F-throw is used because get off my ledge.

 

[ChronoPenguin]

I use up throw with Shulk quite a bit. Characters defensive options are a lot more limited in the air. I throw people up because I'll take my chances going for the juggle opportunity or landing punish. Especially if I think that particular character has more trouble landing than most. Basically I find it easier to contend with people in the air given here is no shield, down and back throw have their purpose but up throws positioning fits my game plan.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

I was playing around with Shulk the other day. Shulk in Buster gets the world when he uthrows opponents at under 100%; it's probably lucky this game has a chaingrab restriction or he'd be able to cg people for days. Even as it stands, his opponent is in such a horrible position that it makes Diddy's arms seem inviting...

 

[Darklink401]

Depends on the character.

Marths uthrow kills at 150% or so, and Sheik can combo a fair or bouncing fish out of fthrow.

 

[SewenNewes]

A good Ness should use all four throws somewhat regularly. His bthrow is best in the game and he's got one of the stronger dthrow follow-ups but his other throws can't be slept on. Mainly you use them to keep your bthrow from staling when dthrow won't combo but you can get basically free damage from PK thunder after an uthrow or a fthrow that puts them offstage.

I was playing around with Shulk the other day. Shulk in Buster gets the world when he uthrows opponents at under 100%; it's probably lucky this game has a chaingrab restriction or he'd be able to cg people for days. Even as it stands, his opponent is in such a horrible position that it makes Diddy's arms seem inviting...

I need to put on some time with this. I've loved playing around with Shulk here and there. I imagine his uthrow is pretty good even without arts because his aerials are so meaty and have so much range.

 

[adamlon1]

Most Characters have their down throw for combos and back throw for either getting the opponent of the stage or they use it as a kill throw. Up Throw tends to be a less effective version of back throw for most characters since Back throw is better for killing and setting up for juggles are way more reliable with Down Throw however Marth does use his Up-Throw as a kill throw as it is better than Back Throw when it comes to killing but he only uses it if he can't find any opportunities to do his main kill moves. F-Throw is not as good as down throw for setting up combos well atleast for most characters however in some instances can kill faster than Down Throw however both aren't even kill throws (Atleast for most characters) however Pit does use F-Throw as a very good kill move at high percents and Marth uses it as a combo starter same with Sheik.

 

[Earthboundy]

As I Ness main, I find it hard to combo with up throw. The only exception is I will up throw a Little Mac since it's important to keep him in the air. I do use forward trow if I know it will get them off the stage and feel I can get a quick easy gimp.