Why Ganon vs Snake should be 100:0

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Now, I'm just joking when I say it's 100:0.

From my testing, crouching enables Snake to avoid nearly half of Ganons moveset or at least make most of it unviable. First off, ganons grab animation is not low enough to grab snake in a crouch, even a dash grab.

Second, all of ganons aerials will not hit snake in a crouch. Even fast fallen ones. The only exception to this is Dair. But, in order for Dair to work it needs to hit the ground. A rising SH Dair doesn't hit Snake in a crouch. That means Dair will have a lot of lag upon trying to hit snake.

The next bit of the moveset that misses Snake in a crouch are ganons specials. Warlock Punch/Kick don't hit snake in a crouch. UpB and SideB will however.Warlock kick hits snake when done from the air. SideB is a bit unviable for Ganon in the first place since pretty much one can spotdodge it on reaction.

Of ganon's other moves, Ftilt, Jab, and Dsmash will not hit Snake in a crouch. (Utilt would, but seriously, punish it's start-up lag duh) Nor will fsmash angled up and sometimes horizontal (for some reason snake's hurtbox moves up and down when he crawls, crouching still he woudn't be hit).

So pretty much the only viable moves Ganon has on Snake in a crouch is reduced by half and more.

I'm looking into more people crouching would be this effective against. Although, I doubt much would come up. Avoiding grabs in a crouch would be invaluable.

 

[Berserker.]

Wow, poor ganon

Thanks anyway xeylode ^_^!

 

[Attila_]

i lolled. poor ganon. he keeps getting worse.

i thought you meant the other way round though. change the title to 'snake v ganon' or swap the '100:0' to '0:100'

 

[Berserker.]

But I still don't think it's 100:0 though.

 

[Yumewomiteru]

Yeah I used that strategy against a really good Ganon at Pound 4 and it helped me win.

I find that crouching works really well against ZSS also, you should test with her next to see what moves he can avoid by crouching. Also even though crouching won't avoid the inner hitbox of her side-b, if you dtilt it will beat it out and you will avoid it, unless she spaces it so only the outer hitbox hits your of course.

 

[Underload]

Why didn't I think of this. I knew of all the shenanigans that came with Squirtle vs. Ganon, but I didn't translate it over to Snake for whatever reason. Durrrrr.

Ganon sucks.

 

[Berserker.]

Does this work on Captain Falcon?

 

[Superspright]

Oi. Ganon mains do not need this garbage. Shiek can crouch us, snake can crouch us, squirtle, pikachu, kirby, etc.

Come on. We get it already, but we'll still murder, and we can still hit you with a FF bair I believe, but it's probably not worth trying.

 

[Zajice]

I'm gonna troll a certain Ganon main I know now.

 

[Technodeath]

orr.. orrr.... you could dtilt. that might work? D:

 

[napZzz]

Yeah I used that strategy against a really good Ganon at Pound 4 and it helped me win.

I find that crouching works really well against ZSS also, you should test with her next to see what moves he can avoid by crouching. Also even though crouching won't avoid the inner hitbox of her side-b, if you dtilt it will beat it out and you will avoid it, unless she spaces it so only the outer hitbox hits your of course.

we should all test out crouching period. Theres probably some uses we're all too stupid to have realized for it yet.

 

[Berserker.]

^ He has a point there.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

and we can still hit you with a FF bair I believe, but it's probably not worth trying.

I tested that as well, couldnt' get it to work.

Don't forget ZSS. She can crouch that low as well.

 

[TP]

I'm pretty sure Ganon's reverse SH Uair can hit, and since that is his main approach anyway, this whole thread is pretty much pointless.

 

[smashkng]

He can still DA Snake as well, and grab him with his pivot grab (which has very good range compared to his standing and dash grab).

 

[demodemo]

dtilt does work and is a very good move

 

[smashkng]

It's faster than human reaction and has amazing range. Plus it can juggle at low percents and puts Snake in the air, where Snake doesn't like to be.

It's not 100-0, because Snake dies earlier than he's used to live. But it still sucks, overall like 75/25 or 80/20 Snake. Also, while Snake usually sucks at gimping, Ganon's recovery suck so much that Snake can still easily gimp Ganon.

 

[cenel]

Lol at this thread. Snake can only downtilt directly from crouch. Dtilt is one of snakes worst moves. It's not so smart to be crouched all the time especially with snake against ganon. Bait and punish is alot better and just camping.

 

[Yumewomiteru]

Snake can dtilt without crouching, if you do so then it comes out on the same frame his u-tilt does.

 

[6Mizu]

I read this and Lol'd. Poor ganon.
Ganon maybe awesome, but he sucks.

 

[Toneh]

any tips on how to fight a d-air spamming ganon?

 

[smashkng]

Shield, it isn't safe on shields.

 

[Lovely]

I thought Ganon vs Ice Climber was around that ratio. ;p

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

This thread is getting entertaining with all the posts regarding ganon. I'm not saying really much changes. I intended this thread to be prove of how useful crouching with snake could be. And see what else it could be used for. We already know to use it against Falco at a distance.

Also, snake mains, I had an idea. Did you ever have that problem where when the game starts and your control stick, even though it is in the neutral position, is causing the game to always treat it as an up, or down input. Or the cursor on the game screen slowly moves in a particular direction? And the only way to solve this was to press start and hold y+x on the GC controller for 3 seconds.

If you have you know what I am talking about. If not, allow me to explain. Everytime the game is started it will read the gamecube controller control stick's position. If you hold it in the down position during the games loading times it will treat this position as "neutral". So, once the control stick is released back to the real neutral positon all the games inputs are being read as up.

What if we applied this little glitch into always having snake crouch without actually holding down on the control stick? Simply hold up slighlty during the game loading time and in a match Snake should always be crouching when you are in the neural position.

Ok, forget I ever mentioned that idea xD It works, but it's so messed up. To pull a nade I had to hold up and B xD

 

[Eternal Yoshi]

IIRC Utilt outranges all of Ganon's moveset. WHy try to KO Ganon vertically when his weight and falling speed make it hard to do so?

With Ganon's crap recover and physics, you should be KOing him sideways.

 

[6Mizu]

Shield, it isn't safe on shields.

I think I just..... LOL'd!
Sounds like a troll!

 

[Superspright]

Dair can be punished on shield sometimes, but when power shielded, definitely.

 

[Berserker.]

It can't be 75:25 or 80:20 due to the number of advantages Snake has.

 

[xDD-Master]

any tips on how to fight a d-air spamming ganon?

Predict it -> Full Hop Nair right in his Face Beard.

 

[Sovereign]

What can Snake do while he's prone? Dtilt is all... I doubt that Snake needs this anyway.

 

[Berserker.]

What can Snake do while he's prone? Dtilt is all... I doubt that Snake needs this anyway.

Wut? How many more posts?

Look at how many advantages Snake has using crouch against Ganondorf. All of Ganondorf's moves are shut down.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

What can Snake do while he's prone? Dtilt is all... I doubt that Snake needs this anyway.

Let go of holding down, and snake can do anything out of crouch <_< Seriously, it's not that hard to let go of a control stick to neutral positon and go straight into a ftilt.

Look at how many advantages Snake has using crouch against Ganondorf. All of Ganondorf's moves are shut down.[/quote]

It isn't much though. Ganon's good moves are not shut down. Dtilt has great range, sideB leads into all sorts of shenanigans sideB > jab is a full combo on snake. Dash Attack is deadly. The only real thing crouching does is avoid grabs. Just crouch and move backwards and he cannot grab you. Any other assult you just know you need to shield or just spot dodge when you see the sideB animation. But, crouchign still isn't all that great for the match-up. Again, it is just to prove how crouching does have some uses.

 

[Berserker.]

But still, this helps against Ganondorf's laggy moves and what you said about countering Ganondorf's move. That's what makes it pretty wait I mean very easy for Snake

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

It has potiental too... but since hardly anyone actually uses his croching ability even against falco, I doubt too many have the tech skill to use it properly. SuSa I think was the only one who had the real understanding of using crouch in a match.

 

[Berserker.]

Who wants to make a full crouch list?

Oh btw: Read the BASGG guide for new announcement