Why does everyone hate Subspace Emissary?

[Kamikazek]

Going from Melee's adventure mode that had absolutely 0 plot, made no sense, had no speaking and was just a glorified classic mode SE was a huge improvement.

People just love to complain.

Subspace had a lot of problems that were a deal breaker for some people, not for others. It had strengths that really made it for some people but not for others. It was also a massive resource sink which is bound to be a sticking point for a lot of people. You can love subspace and that's fine but that doesn't change the fact that lots of other people have perfectly reasonable explanations for not liking it. Yes some people just express hate for subspace without any reasoning or are needlessly abrasive about it but that's bound to happen when you ask a group of people about anything.

I really think you're over reacting and saying "People just love to complain" is blatantly ignoring and to an extent insulting all the people in this thread who have put forth thought out, well articulated reasons for their opinion on subspace. Hell quite a lot of people in this thread have said they actually like subspace and most people who don't have said what they do like about subspace. You're complaining about people being whiny brats when 95% of people are actually being rather mature. You're complaining about complaining that isn't happening. =P

 

[NitrusVirus]

THIS. THIS. SO MUCH THIS! If you were seriously not moved by any of the things mentioned in this post...you're not a Nintendo fan, you just like fighting games. I'll have to add the part when Samus finally finds her Varia Suit and the alarms go off as "Samus Aran, Space Warrior" starts playing and she BURSTS out of the room with her suit, looking down at Pikachu, nodding and walking epicly.

**** I like fighting games?? Damn I didnt even know that. Thanks for letting me know!!

 

[mimgrim]

It had plot.
Decent story.
Incredible character development with Lucas.
Original enemies.
The ability to play as every character.
And glorious cut scenes.


Can't wrap my head around why it was hated and how people are happy we aren't getting one for 4.
I am disappointed.

It had a very vague plot that is not understandable.
Aside from some rare moments, I find the so called story to be pretty bad.
One good thing does not make a load of bad things good.
Original =/= well designed or unique, and you just ed up fighting the sames enemies over and over and over to where it just feels even more bland.
I also have that ability in ever mode in some way or another.
You couldn't really understand them anyway.

And probably the biggest reason why they are hater is because of all the time they took and how poorly compressed they are in Brawl which to some people show rushed/lazy development

I am disappointing that you cant wrap your head around something so simple as why people might not like SSE. The only thing I liked about it really was that it allowed me to unlock every character in the game easily and made it less of a hassle.

 

[MSmariosonic]

If thats what it takes to be a true nintendo fan then so be it, that story was anime and cheesy and therefor bad. The worst parts though were the ones with ridley in them, metroid is a stupid franchise with the fattest community ever, its only alive because of the marketing gimmicks they did by making samus a girl in the newer games, it just hasnt been the same since. I hope ridley doesnt get in to teach a lesson to the metroid fans, and i hope this time americans are in charge of the action videos, preferable michael bay or someone with experience

Calling Metroid stupid wasn't a very smart move man...not on this forum.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

SSE was good for what it was, it was great to see your favorite characters interact with each other and all. But it wasn't worth the amount of time and resources spent on it, those could have gone to better balancing, better online, more characters and stuff like that instead. SSE was good for once, maybe twice or even three times, and that was it. I'd much rather that time is spent in things that constantly affect how you play the game instead.

If thats what it takes to be a true nintendo fan then so be it, that story was anime and cheesy and therefor bad. The worst parts though were the ones with ridley in them, metroid is a stupid franchise with the fattest community ever, its only alive because of the marketing gimmicks they did by making samus a girl in the newer games, it just hasnt been the same since. I hope ridley doesnt get in to teach a lesson to the metroid fans, and i hope this time americans are in charge of the action videos, preferable michael bay or someone with experience

I almost believed you for a second, but eh, if you gotta troll at least don't be dead obvious.

 

[SmashBro99]

I LOVE the cutscenes, I still go back to watch my favorites, or just all of them in order.

SSE itself was lacking though. Having original enemies wasn't bad, but fighting Goombas, Badniks, and other enemies from the games involved in the game would have been better. Rayquaza being a boss against two characters who have nothing to do with pokemon? I wanted more of that. Same goes for the stages, I didn't hate them but it would have been epic to play through areas from the Nintendo worlds.

I loved it the first time I played through it, and had fun again the second time until I got to the great maze and said f that.

I will miss the cutscenes greatly, the characters interacting with eachother was amazing, but that's all.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

The only thing I enjoyed about SSE was the humour.

Everything else was eh

 

[iam8bit]

Why is this in the Smash 4 section?

Anywho, I don't hate SSE. But I'd rather have them spend all that effort into the actual main game, so if getting rid of it means we'll get better characters, moves and stages, then the change is more than welcome. Embarrass

 

[KingofPhantoms]

If thats what it takes to be a true nintendo fan then so be it, that story was anime and cheesy and therefor bad. The worst parts though were the ones with ridley in them, metroid is a stupid franchise with the fattest community ever, its only alive because of the marketing gimmicks they did by making samus a girl in the newer games, it just hasnt been the same since. I hope ridley doesnt get in to teach a lesson to the metroid fans, and i hope this time americans are in charge of the action videos, preferable michael bay or someone with experience

You really need to work on your trolling, you have no skill in it.

 

[Sobreviviente]

you cant even grab the primids normally, is just too forced.
Is really strange, is basically a kirby game with nintendo characters, deeper gameplay, great enemies, more levels and a lot of humour... but the level design and story is so bad that you forgot about them, and is soo long and tedious, why?

I dont hate it and is obvious why some people like it, but at the same time, is obvious why some people hate it.

Personally, i dont like "this world" in general, is so empty and lame... why would tabuu want to steal something like that? are all the habitants in the midair stadium and thats why is so desert?
Why mario and yoshi act like they dont known each other? Why is gany so stupid? why MK is so badass?
And why third party characters are THAT important in the story? and why they play a bigger role in the game than ACTUAL nintendo characters like TL, Wolf and Purin? i would love if it was both snake and sonic the ones that save the day, but sonic alone is just the dumbest idea i have ever saw in smash.

 

[BlitznBurst]

Subspace was uninspired trash. Everything from the generic enemies to the bland environments to the long corridors filled with enemy fodder. Literally the only reason I was able to sit through the entire thing was because some of the requirements to unlock hidden characters were flat-out ridiculous.

 

[Morbi]

I have not read the entire thread, so I am sure that someone emphasized the majority perspective. However, just in case, people hate Subspace Emissary because it takes up a significant amount of development time. I think it is difficult to argue that more people would prefer refined mechanics and ideal balancing with a beefed up roster (as opposed to an uninspired gimmick). That is what it comes down to, I personally enjoyed it my very first time playing. After that, it was worthless, it doesn't enhance the longevity of the game at all. Not to mention it further illuminates the notion that Smash is a party game instead of a fighting game. It might not mean much to a lot of people, but having a mini-game as the story mode? Yeah, that doesn't help.

 

[BlitznBurst]

also idgaf about not being able to unlock characters properly because unlockable characters was an awful idea to begin with and I hope all the unlockable characters being revealed is a sign that Sakurai has decided to abolish them entirely

 

[Sobreviviente]

I have not read the entire thread, so I am sure that someone emphasized the majority perspective. However, just in case, people hate Subspace Emissary because it takes up a significant amount of development time. I think it is difficult to argue that more people would prefer refined mechanics and ideal balancing with a beefed up roster (as opposed to an uninspired gimmick). That is what it comes down to, I personally enjoyed it my very first time playing. After that, it was worthless, it doesn't enhance the longevity of the game at all. Not to mention it further illuminates the notion that Smash is a party game instead of a fighting game. It might not mean much to a lot of people, but having a mini-game as the story mode? Yeah, that doesn't help.

Well in Home run Contest you can learn combos.
It could have been a great tutorial experience, each level focused on show the characters and learn their abilities, just like target test did in melee, one with metaknight gliding or pit using his arrows... they didnt want to make a fighting game that time, thats all.

 

[MSmariosonic]

also idgaf about not being able to unlock characters properly because unlockable characters was an awful idea to begin with and I hope all the unlockable characters being revealed is a sign that Sakurai has decided to abolish them entirely

Are you serious!? Unlocking characters is the most fun thing to do in Smash Bros. !

 

[Morbi]

Are you serious!? Unlocking characters is the most fun thing to do in Smash Bros. !

This, it is one of the only reasons I even got into the game.

Well in Home run Contest you can learn combos.
It could have been a great tutorial experience, each level focused on show the characters and learn their abilities, just like target test did in melee, one with metaknight gliding or pit using his arrows... they didnt want to make a fighting game that time, thats all.

Haha, I just threw the bat at the home-run sandbag the entire time for every character.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

I'd absolutely hate it if all characters were default. I prefer the challenge of unlocking a good part of the roster, but that's just my opinion.

 

[Morbi]

I'd absolutely hate it if all characters were default. I prefer the challenge of unlocking a good part of the roster, but that's just my opinion.

I mean, I can understand wanting to unlock certain characters like Mewtwo earlier. I believe his circumstances were the most difficult. I know I have left my Gamecube on over-night quite a few times in order to unlock him. Challenges like that are fun for me, but I can understand why people (especially his mains) hate the notion. That is why there are multiple ways to unlock each character. Some are just a little too hard for the common player that doesn't plan to commit a substantial amount of time in the game.

 

[MSmariosonic]

The thing I disliked about unlocking characters in Brawl is that...they were too easy to unlock( except for Wolf,Purin and Toon Link). I'd rather have harder methodes to unlock them otherwise it doesn't feel like a reward. I mean....reflecting 10 projectiles to unlock ness? That's too easy. Playing 15 matches on Shadow Moses Island for Snake? That's too easy. Though I might say that just because I want newer players to be jealous of us having AWESOME characters.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Are you serious!? Unlocking characters is the most fun thing to do in Smash Bros. !

This. The Challenger Approaching screen is one of the few things in gaming that really gets my blood pumping. Even if you know who it is, it's still super satisfying to beat them and then add them onto the roster.

 

[Morbi]

The thing I disliked about unlocking characters in Brawl is that...they were too easy to unlock( except for Wolf,Purin and Toon Link). I'd rather have harder methodes to unlock them otherwise it doesn't feel like a reward. I mean....reflecting 10 projectiles to unlock ness? That's too easy. Playing 15 matches on Shadow Moses Island for Snake? That's too easy. Though I might say that just because I want newer players to be jealous of us having AWESOME characters.

I agree. It would be much better if they bumped the really difficult characters down a notch, at the same time, they make all of the easier characters substantially harder to unlock. That would be my ideal game right there. It is difficult to find that medium, we have players like you and I, who want to actually have fun and earn our characters. You also have the people that want to buy the game and immediately play as their favorite character. So it is hard to find the sweet spot. Personally, I thought Melee had it down to a science.

 

[mimgrim]

I guess I'm one of the few who doesn't like the idea of unlocking characters all that much. I just find it tedious and boring. I would much rather be able to buy smash 4, have all characters unlocked, and be able to jump straight to training mode and figure out which character I want to be my main based on playing style instead of having to unlock all characters first and then do that. Of course that probably won't happen, but at least Brawl made it easier and somewhat less tedious, I got all characters unlocked in like 2 days compared to like a month in Melee. But the traditional Smash method of unlocking is just so tedious, play in a match for X time. play X number of times, play X number of battle, ect... But w/e.

 

[chaoswafflez04]

I'm actually surprised that nobody even mentioned the fact that the Kirby franchise, Sakurai's other main series, was overly emphasized in SSE, if you think about it again. If you don't see it, here's a quick list of things in SSE that make it too much emphasis on the Kirby franchise:

1. Who's ship (other than Fox's and Falco's kinda) was a major plot element in the story? Meta Knight's Halberd. The Subspace Army uses it as transportation, it's used as a stage with a boss included, and it is used as the main carrier ship in The Great Invasion.
2. After EVERYONE became trophies, who were the only characters to be revived by DEDEDE's timers? Luigi, Ness, and KIRBY. King Dedede was also revived by Luigi and Ness as HE was the one who put the badges on them, and HE was the creator of the badges as a backup plan if everyone became trophies. Kirby, meanwhile, thought the timer that he found was food, inhaled it, and became revived later on. He was the only one playable in that level of Subspace in the first playthrough, in a similar fashion to how he was the only character in the first boss battle.
3. Other than the Halberd, the only other area from a game series outside of Smash Bros. that was used was DEDEDE'S CASTLE. It's even directly called King Dedede's Castle in-game, and its design is just like the castle in the Kirby games.
4. Meta Knight and Kirby were playable a ton of times, possibly more than all other characters, as Kirby was playable in the first few levels in the arena and with Peach/Zelda, was teamed up with Mario, Pit, Link, and Yoshi after being the one who revived the 2 that were almost snagged by Dedede, and was one of the 4 revived characters in the Subspace levels. Meta Knight, meanwhile, was playable in the levels with Marth and Ike, he was the person that saved Lucas and P.T., he was in the only pre-Subspace level with Ice Climbers, the battle against Lucario, the Halberd levels, and eventually took back his ship and piloted it in The Great Invasion, while Kirby was the one who DESTROYED the gunship in The Great Invasion with the Dragoon.
5. Dedede basically made Ness and Luigi his servants, as they helped HIM when Bowser was troubling him and Dedede even SLAPPED the Koopa King. Now that's one heck of a powerful king, by making two people his servants after only befriending them a moment ago, and slapping a GIANT EVIL FIRE BREATHING SPIKED TURTLE EMPEROR THAT ALMOST TOOK OVER THE ENTIRE GALAXY.
6. Don't forget the removed prologue, which had Dedede accidentally causing Meta Knight to lose his ship to the Subspace Army.

*WHEW* That was some list/rant. If you haven't noticed all of that stuff, by now you probably do. And one last thing, if Sakurai does make a full length adventure mode like SSE again, PLEASE I BEG OF YOU, DON'T MAKE THE KIRBY CHARACTERS THE MOST IMPORTANT CHARACTERS IN THE STORY AGAIN! THEY'VE HAD WAY MORE THAN ENOUGH SCREEN TIME IN SSE!

 

[Sabrewulf238]

You know you can still do that right? Subspace is optional. I did stamina with 1HP for all my characters.

Yes I know, but admittedly a lot of the time I unlock something is due to the amount of vs matches I play.

It would have been a weird way to play the game waiting until I unlocked everyone to play story mode.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

You know why everyone hates SSE?

No or

 

[FalKoopa]

You know why everyone hates SSE?

No or

Nope, it's because of no

 

[Capybara Gaming]

what about no

 

[Morbi]

I'm actually surprised that nobody even mentioned the fact that the Kirby franchise, Sakurai's other main series, was overly emphasized in SSE, if you think about it again. If you don't see it, here's a quick list of things in SSE that make it too much emphasis on the Kirby franchise:

1. Who's ship (other than Fox's and Falco's kinda) was a major plot element in the story? Meta Knight's Halberd. The Subspace Army uses it as transportation, it's used as a stage with a boss included, and it is used as the main carrier ship in The Great Invasion.
2. After EVERYONE became trophies, who were the only characters to be revived by DEDEDE's timers? Luigi, Ness, and KIRBY. King Dedede was also revived by Luigi and Ness as HE was the one who put the badges on them, and HE was the creator of the badges as a backup plan if everyone became trophies. Kirby, meanwhile, thought the timer that he found was food, inhaled it, and became revived later on. He was the only one playable in that level of Subspace in the first playthrough, in a similar fashion to how he was the only character in the first boss battle.
3. Other than the Halberd, the only other area from a game series outside of Smash Bros. that was used was DEDEDE'S CASTLE. It's even directly called King Dedede's Castle in-game, and its design is just like the castle in the Kirby games.
4. Meta Knight and Kirby were playable a ton of times, possibly more than all other characters, as Kirby was playable in the first few levels in the arena and with Peach/Zelda, was teamed up with Mario, Pit, Link, and Yoshi after being the one who revived the 2 that were almost snagged by Dedede, and was one of the 4 revived characters in the Subspace levels. Meta Knight, meanwhile, was playable in the levels with Marth and Ike, he was the person that saved Lucas and P.T., he was in the only pre-Subspace level with Ice Climbers, the battle against Lucario, the Halberd levels, and eventually took back his ship and piloted it in The Great Invasion, while Kirby was the one who DESTROYED the gunship in The Great Invasion with the Dragoon.
5. Dedede basically made Ness and Luigi his servants, as they helped HIM when Bowser was troubling him and Dedede even SLAPPED the Koopa King. Now that's one heck of a powerful king, by making two people his servants after only befriending them a moment ago, and slapping a GIANT EVIL FIRE BREATHING SPIKED TURTLE EMPEROR THAT ALMOST TOOK OVER THE ENTIRE GALAXY.
6. Don't forget the removed prologue, which had Dedede accidentally causing Meta Knight to lose his ship to the Subspace Army.

*WHEW* That was some list/rant. If you haven't noticed all of that stuff, by now you probably do. And one last thing, if Sakurai does make a full length adventure mode like SSE again, PLEASE I BEG OF YOU, DON'T MAKE THE KIRBY CHARACTERS THE MOST IMPORTANT CHARACTERS IN THE STORY AGAIN! THEY'VE HAD WAY MORE THAN ENOUGH SCREEN TIME IN SSE!

When it comes down to it, I highly doubt that it was accidental. However, I do not think that his intention was to illuminate the importance of Kirby characters or give his own franchise more screen time. I think it had more to do with the notion that he was uncomfortable making overt character archetypes that didn't correlate to the character. It is easier to involve his own series so that he doesn't mess it up. He wouldn't misrepresent his series, and he wouldn't misrepresent a different series that people hold in high regards. Essentially it was an easy way for him to write a plot without having to much inconsistencies. That is how I view it. He really is modest when it comes to his own series. If we get Waddle Dee in the next Smash (I hope we do). Maybe you are on to something. Overall, I agree though. Kirby is one of my least favorite series in Smash and the excess screen time did make me roll my eyes a couple of times.

If you look at a more famous example, MK vs DC, it is hard to balance the plot without making inconsistent characters. In this case, it was on both fronts. The MK characters didn't act like MK characters and the DC characters didn't act like DC characters.

 

[Renji64]

One thing i did like was the fallen master hand stage it looked pretty cool. But It is good resources are going else where this time.

 

[Morbi]

One thing i did like was the fallen master hand stage it looked pretty cool. But It is good resources are going else where this time.

You just reminded me of the REAL reason I hate SSE.
Smash's main boss has always been Master/Crazy Hand. Why the hell do we get this bald butterfly dude?

 

[GodOfSocks]

You just reminded me of the REAL reason I hate SSE.
Smash's main boss has always been Master/Crazy Hand. Why the hell do we get this bald butterfly dude?

Where the hell Was Crazy hand anyways? Was he on vacation? In Jail?

Weird story anime cutscenes no voices or subtitles and it was boring after one playthrough

Anime? you mean like this? e.e

May I add that that needs to happen^
On second thought, looking at most of Nintendo-Inspired television..

 

[Sabrewulf238]

what about no

Clearly the people's favourite for Smash 4.

Ridley who?

 

[Morbi]

Clearly the people's favourite for Smash 4.

Ridley who?

How would Pichu work in Subspace Emissary anyways? Would he be the hero after all? The only one to stop the great evil?! If I was Sakurai, that is how the plot would go. They would all be doomed, but luckily a tiny and beautiful creature would swoop in to save the day.

 

[Jumpman84]

You just reminded me of the REAL reason I hate SSE.
Smash's main boss has always been Master/Crazy Hand. Why the hell do we get this bald butterfly dude?

Well, he represents true evil in the SSE. Master Hand is the ruler of the World of Trophies and is the final boss of Classic (and N64's 1P mode) because he represents the final obstacle. He's putting the character to the test to see if they truly are worthy fighters. Remember, Master Hand is the creator of the world and the one who watches over it.

Tabuu is something different. He's the embodiment of Subspace (not to be confused with the Subspace from Super Mario Bros. 2... or is it? ). For whatever reason, he is a very evil power hungry being. He himself cannot leave Subspace, so he decides to bring the world to him... hence the Subspace bombs and the army.

In hindsight, it was obvious that something was very wrong with Master Hand and the whole plot, as Master Hand would never want to cause such destruction. Granted, it could have been possible to say it was Crazy Hand in disguise or that he was being controlled by Giga Bowser, but the Primids and Shadow Bugs and everything else are not natural beings of this world. They are, so to say, alien. In that sense, it's perfectly logical for an unheard of being from another world to be manipulating Master Hand like that. I think the issue was that there wasn't enough clues and hints peppered through the story to allow us to discover that. The cut prolouge may have also provided us vital information.

 

[D-idara]

If thats what it takes to be a true nintendo fan then so be it, that story was anime and cheesy and therefor bad. The worst parts though were the ones with ridley in them, metroid is a stupid franchise with the fattest community ever, its only alive because of the marketing gimmicks they did by making samus a girl in the newer games, it just hasnt been the same since. I hope ridley doesnt get in to teach a lesson to the metroid fans, and i hope this time americans are in charge of the action videos, preferable michael bay or someone with experience

I really hope you're trolling...

 

[D-idara]

Subspace was uninspired trash. Everything from the generic enemies to the bland environments to the long corridors filled with enemy fodder. Literally the only reason I was able to sit through the entire thing was because some of the requirements to unlock hidden characters were flat-out ridiculous.

Oh you're on Smashboards too? And you bring your hate of corridors here too. The cutscenes were amazing and that's all that matters.

 

[Morbi]

I really hope you're trolling...

The last sentence really gave it away. It was a pretty overt troll if you ask me.

 

[GodOfSocks]

Yeah mario talks all the time in mario party so i dont see why not. Plus he has a cartoon and talks all the time in that. Same with sonic and link

Dont...Mention those things...

also idgaf about not being able to unlock characters properly because unlockable characters was an awful idea to begin with and I hope all the unlockable characters being revealed is a sign that Sakurai has decided to abolish them entirely

Whenever a veteran is revealed, It says "Challenger Approaching" on the website, So of course There's a chance theyre getting rid of "Challenger Approaching", and while were at it, lets get rid of Classic mode and All-star, and the Hands.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I don't hate SSE. It was a fun little romp.

I'm just disappointed. It was good, but it could have been SO much more. There was so much potential that was never realized.

 

[Niko Mar]

Dont...Mention those things...


Whenever a veteran is revealed, It says "Challenger Approaching" on the website, So of course There's a chance theyre getting rid of "Challenger Approaching", and while were at it, lets get rid of Classic mode and All-star, and the Hands.

In fact, let's get rid of everything. The models, the backgrounds, everything so that there is just a white background with black wire-frames as characters. Then they can only focus on competitive game mechanics and NOTHING ELSE. But why stop there....let's just destroy humanity. Hahaha I mean where's the fun in new people coming out of nowhere amiright....AMIRIGHT!!