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Why does everyone hate Subspace Emissary?

PixelPasta

Smash Lord
Joined
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How the **** were the cutscenes not amazing?

I'm sorry but I respect everything people have been saying about SSE but to go after the CUT SCENES is just blatant prejudice to Brawl.
Whether somebody would consider them amazing or not is a matter of personal taste. You should respect that just as much as you'd respect anything else that somebody might say.

I personally did not find the cutscenes to be all that incredible or anything. They weren't bad by any stretch; they definitely were good, with a lot of potential - and I certainly see what they were trying to do.... but I wouldn't ever consider them 'amazing'.
By the way, Brawl is my favorite game - so no blatant prejudice here :)
 

GodOfSocks

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it was good, i mean i enjoyed it and all, but it was... lackluster
cutscenes- epic win. loved seeing dedede slap bowser
playthrough- enjoyable, a bit too straighforward/easy at times
BUT ERMAHGERD I HATED UNLOCKING DANG NEAR EVERY CHARACTER IN IT! i liked playing a whole crudload of vs matches or doing this or that somewhat lengthy task, then after completing it see that silhouette of a character, then possibly or possibly not getting the tar mercilessly beaten out of me simply because i was marveling at the never-before-seen character that i was soon to unlock.
THIS
THIS IS WHY
WHY COULDN'T I TURN IT OFF
I FELT CHEATED OF MY CHALLENGER APPROACHING SCREEN
 

Rioni

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 28, 2013
Messages
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I personally liked SSE. Heck, I love story mode on any game. True it was bland and they could've done better, but I enjoyed the cutscenes they showed. Bit sad that they won't do much of it for the next game. I hope the adventure mode for the next game be better though!
 

GreenReaperGod

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STORY MODE WILL RETURN EXACTLY THE SAME AS BRAWL EXCEPT NO CUTSCENES, MORE CONFUSING STORY, AND EVEN MORE REPETITION :D
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
I liked the SSE at first, but then I was bothered by it.

While I love the cutscenes and the fact that many Nintendo characters played a role within the story, I hated how bland the world was. I don't care for realistic settings. I wanna explore though sections of Nintendo's worlds in one small world, like the Mushroom Kingdom and Hyrule and Dream Land, not freaking plains and lake sides. Second, the enemies were all bland and I would have loved to fight enemies from different games besides just the Smash originals and Mario enemies.

If I had to complain about the plot… then I hate how some characters got major ones and other ones didn't. I understand this for the case of Sonic, Toon Link, Jigglypuff, and Wolf, but how come Luigi and the Ice Climbers didn't get bigger roles? They were barely within the story itself.

The SSE bothered me in the end as they put emphasis on that mode instead of expanding gameplay elements, making more fun stages, and putting in more characters like Mewtwo and Roy. The SSE just ate so much time that I'm honestly disappointed that it did when we could of had other things as well.

When I heard that Sakurai stated that there won't be an SSE type story-mode, I was ecstatic. I think that having no SSE will leave Sakurai and his team more opportunities to balance out the roster, make more fun stages, make more fun modes, and add in more characters.
 

DakotaBonez

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-like DakotaBenz said, add stamina instead of damage. The SSE was just way too easy even on intense. Stamina would add a challenge.

Whoah don't go misquoting me, I was just saying that I hated how ya got launched super hard by the enemies.
In SSE, You lose a life if your damage reaches 300%, so you basically have a stamina meter.
I was saying it should play like stamina mode, where you don't increase knockback as ya take damage. Also, how the heck was it easy on intense? Have you played intense!?! Enemies do like 50 damage and the bosses movement speed is at least 3 times faster. (Compared to Normal)
 

Fatmanonice

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I liked it but I had two big problems with it:

1. The replay value was virtually nonexistent. It was fun going through once but aside from fighting the bosses it was incredibly tedious to do any of the stages again, even as different characters.

2. It was not worth the absurd amount of time and resources they poured into it. It's rumored that close to 70% of the development time for the game was focused on the SSE. Smash Bros main appeal has always been the multiplayer and that is what should have been the focus of development.
 

NitrusVirus

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I think you have a loose concept of what "incredible" character development is. Anyway, I never really hear anyone say they hate it. Was it enjoyable? Yeah. Awesome? Eh, subjective. Could it use work? MILLIONS. It was a VERY rough draft to what could have been an amazing addition to Smash 4. But then Sakurai butthurt happened. It was very bare-bones for what it was. The story was extremely basic, which isnt bad, it just wasnt all that engaging either. There were absolutely 0 locales from any games actually IN the SSE, it was all just "basic field", "basic sky", ect. when it could have been much more. The sky island could have been Angel Island, the forest could have been a mix between Lost Woods and Jungle Japes and so on. And Sonic was even IN SSE at all! There was even a stage that was literally "nothing". You ran in a line and you were done, literally.
It was just the ground work for something better, but we know how that went.
 

PikaJew

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I think you have a loose concept of what "incredible" character development is. Anyway, I never really hear anyone say they hate it. Was it enjoyable? Yeah. Awesome? Eh, subjective. Could it use work? MILLIONS. It was a VERY rough draft to what could have been an amazing addition to Smash 4. But then Sakurai butthurt happened.

If you never felt for Lucas and was pissed at him for abandoning Ness and then genuinely proud when saves Pokemon Trainer then you don't have a heart. Everyone else was just banding together to save their world, but Lucas was trying to save himself in the process.
He was the only character that had something to prove (besides R.O.B.) and needed to find himself before he could save Ness.

It's a ****ing Smash Bros game and they managed to include character development but everyone seems to overlook that because they included original enemies.
 

NitrusVirus

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If you never felt for Lucas and was pissed at him for abandoning Ness and then genuinely proud when saves Pokemon Trainer then you don't have a heart.

It's a ****ing Smash Bros game and they managed to include character development but everyone seems to overlook that because they included original enemies.
The **** do original enemies have to do with character development? And yes while it IS development its far from incredible, but thats not even the point. Refer to the rest of my statement (I edited and elaborated)
 

TumblrFamous

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If you never felt for Lucas and was pissed at him for abandoning Ness and then genuinely proud when saves Pokemon Trainer then you don't have a heart. Everyone else was just banding together to save their world, but Lucas was trying to save himself in the process.
He was the only character that had something to prove (besides R.O.B.) and needed to find himself before he could save Ness.

It's a ****ing Smash Bros game and they managed to include character development but everyone seems to overlook that because they included original enemies.
That's one of the problems in it, it wasn't very engaging. The only two characters that seemed to get any development was Lucas by a long shot, and ROB during the course of the entire game. They butchered everyone else, and I never felt a connection with the story, as they kept going from one group to the other. There were no true interactions. There were some silent nods, like Zelda/Link deciding to persuade the King of Evil to help them, Kirby and Dedede in Subspace, etc. But the majority was very bland and tasteless. Things just happened for the sake of continuing the story, not developing it. As a child, I enjoyed playing it, but looking back it turned out to be mediocre. It was just very bland and repetitive. And yes, original enemies are pretty cool, but not when you have to fight them over and over and over again.

One of my biggest complaints was, like I said, the repetitiveness of it. It's either:
  1. Boss Fight
  2. Defeat a horde of enemies
  3. Proceed to Point A - Point B (almost every action-adventure game does this, but the bland nature of the stages and enemies butchered the sense of adventure in this point)
 

Jumpman84

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If you never felt for Lucas and was pissed at him for abandoning Ness and then genuinely proud when saves Pokemon Trainer then you don't have a heart. Everyone else was just banding together to save their world, but Lucas was trying to save himself in the process.
He was the only character that had something to prove (besides R.O.B.) and needed to find himself before he could save Ness.

It's a ****ing Smash Bros game and they managed to include character development but everyone seems to overlook that because they included original enemies.
Actually, a whole lot of the SSE is depressing when you think about it. Not just with Lucas and R.O.B., but Mr. Game & Watch literally had no idea that he was being used for evil until the heroes told him. Can you imagine the guilt Diddy felt about DK sacrificing himself to save his little buddy? Or that Master Hand, the god of this world, being manipulated into destroying his creation and being powerless to stop it?

SSE was a very sad and touching, yet funny and epic story, all the way to the bittersweet end...
 

Niko Mar

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Loved it for the cutscenes, but I agree with everyone on that "unlocking almost all the characters" bull****. Remember the 24 hour thing with Mewtwo in Melee (aka the leaving your gamecube on for 24 hours in a match thing), that was cool. Unlocking everyone almost immediately after only doing a single part (although the biggest) of the game killed the enjoyment of doing crazy things to get new characters. I'm kind of glad Sakurai chose against it this time, only because they can spend more time on the most important part of the game and we can get the game sooner.
 

KingofPhantoms

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To be honest I would've much preferred if they included more enemies from more franchises, but the original enemies were creative and fun to fight in my opinion, and in my opinion as well.

If they had a better mix of original enemies and enemies from other franchises I would've been far more happy. Bowser, Ganondorf, Porky and Ridley all seem to be high ranking members of the SSE. A few members of the Koopa Troop are present, yet none of Ganondorf's monsters are around, and neither are any of the Space Pirates except for Ridley are present, and Porky's only minions (other than the Pig King statue) are a bunch of explosive robot versions of himself that only appear during his boss battle.
 

PikaJew

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The **** do original enemies have to do with character development? And yes while it IS development its far from incredible, but thats not even the point. Refer to the rest of my statement (I edited and elaborated)

The characters were in a different Smash World.
Yes I do agree that bringing everyone's worlds together would have been more interesting, but they still managed to create an immersive world.

I feel if they included the prologue into SE everything would have made more sense, but instead they left a lot of of up to interpretation.
Which was pretty easy to figure out. Tabuu is bad and trying to bring the world into Subspace, the bad characters remain bad, heroes need to band together to save their world. It's not that confusing. The only real confusing thing was trying to figure out what made Mr. Game & Watch so special. But everything is explained in the prologue and suggest everyone read it to understand. It really is interesting.
http://supersmashbros.wikia.com/wiki/Adventure_Mode:_The_Subspace_Emissary

I feel if they kept the main story line, worked in some of the prologue into the actual story, but instead had Tabuu suck the different franchises into Subspace. That would have made for a more memorable scene with fighting through mushroom kingdom and then all of a sudden the Great Fox is flying through Dream Land.

The overall Smash World was pretty basic, and the enemies were somewhat forgettable, but the originality was there. Melee had already done the jumping from world to world plot so they wanted to try something different. And it worked.

I got submerged into the Smash World. I don't give a **** that the backgrounds were plain, the characters were designed to fit that world perfectly. And the cutscenes worked perfectly. They helped to bring it all together. It was amazing seeing them the first time. Fox going 1 on 1 with the Halberd, Dedede slapping Bowser, Wario doing his **** face at the Ness trophy, and so many others.

The side - scrolling never really got stale for me. That's what the 1 player mode was meant to be. It was fun trying all of the new characters and being forced to choose some that are out of your comfort zone, so that kept the mode fresh.

No one expected character development, but it was in there. And better than any most of the recent video games story modes. You got a cowardly boy who watched his friend get stolen and did nothing to stop it. He finds someone on his journey who he can look up to and helps make him more courageous. He conquers the enemy while at the same time conquering his fears. He manages to muster up enough courage to save the helpless Pokemon Trainer. Ultimately becoming a better person.

R.O.B. watches as he commands an army of his brethren to selflessly sacrifice themselves for the "greater good". He is so ashamed of what he has become that he disguises himself. He is constantly watching his own kind die everyday to fulfil the duties that he commands them. All while he is serving a greater evil. He finally has seen enough of his people die and comes out of hiding to fight for them.

I can understand why 'repetitive side-scrolling', 'original landscape and enemies' and 'lack of other worlds' can be discerning to some people, but that in no way ruins the story. Sure it could make it better, but anything can be improved from what it is.
That doesn't make the Subspace Emissary any less of a fantastic and engaging journey through an immersive new world with all of your favourite Nintendo characters.

I loved Subspace Emissary. Sure it gets dull after a bunch of plays throughs, but so does any adventure game.
I'm sure if you go back and played it again you'd finally appreciate it.
 

Schoo

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I was personally fine with it. I actually found it really fun. I think most people probably just found it too time-consuming or something. I know I preferred unlocking the characters via battle, and being surprised by each new 'challenger' screen, and I didn't really get that with Brawl.
 

Altais

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The only thing I really did not like about the Subspace Emissary was that it made the hidden characters way too easy to unlock. It also deprived players (or at least myself) of the excitement of the "challenger approaching" screen. What they should have done, in mine opinion, is have said character available in the story mode after joining up with him/her, but in order to play as said character in all other modes you would have to unlock him/her via a different method.

I also think the story could have done with some kind of narration at the beginning, maybe a Star Wars-style introduction. If nothing else, it would have explained the story better.

Other than that, I rather enjoyed the Subspace Emissary, though I will admit it did become a little boring after fully completing it, trophies and all.

I was a little disappointed when I learnt there would be no story mode in Smash 4, but I have gotten over it. If anything, I now look forward to what the new single-player campaign will bring.
 

Jumpman84

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As far as the unlocking characters things go, I'm neutral on that. On the one hand, the challenger approaching screen is a very satisfying thing to see and the thrill of fighting the character is also fantastic. On the other hand, I'm glad that I didn't have to spend a month or two off the internet to avoid spoilers. Hopefully Smash 4 will find a balance between the easiness of Brawl, but the style of Melee.
 

NitrusVirus

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Why did I read all of that, ****. Anyway I have gone through it time and again, and it always bores me. Theres not really anything to do after you get the secret characters, and for me its not really fun to play through afterwards. For me it just felt very soulless and empty. The locales were most of the problem. The palettes just looked too faded or devoid of character. They were just "forest", "desert", "castle", "digital realm", ect. Yeah there was music to tie it together but that doesnt work as well as youd hope. Yes seeing different characters interact was pretty cool and interesting (like Lucario and Snake with his box, so many laughs), but ultimately it left a lot to be desired.
BUT thats just my point. Brawl set the basic groundwork, and Sakurai f#cked up and let it go to waste and threw it away instead of building on what was established.
 

Jumpman84

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Why did I read all of that, ****. Anyway I have gone through it time and again, and it always bores me. Theres not really anything to do after you get the secret characters, and for me its not really fun to play through afterwards. For me it just felt very soulless and empty. The locales were most of the problem. The palettes just looked too faded or devoid of character. They were just "forest", "desert", "castle", "digital realm", ect. Yeah there was music to tie it together but that doesnt work as well as youd hope. Yes seeing different characters interact was pretty cool and interesting (like Lucario and Snake with his box, so many laughs), but ultimately it left a lot to be desired.
BUT thats just my point. Brawl set the basic groundwork, and Sakurai f#cked up and let it go to waste and threw it away instead of building on what was established.
Who says he threw it away? Just because he's not making the story mode SSE 2 doesn't mean the positive values are lost. I think we're going to get an enhanced Adventure Mode from Melee, with elements from SSE mixed in. It'd be the best of both worlds.
 

Ulti-Bman

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I felt that SSE, while half-baked and somewhat dull, was a definite improvement over Melee's Adventure Mode. To be honest, they're both essentially the same thing with the only differences being that Brawl's Story has cutscenes, boss fights, and extended game length and Melee involved franchise placement a lot more. Sakurai never outright deconfirmed a story mode altogether, just that it wouldn't be like SSE. This could make a turn for the worst or for the better. I personally would like to see something new this time around. Maybe something involving NPC shops or single-character focused storyline? Maybe platforming elements? Who knows? Still, to turn Smash 4's supposed Story Mode into a Melee clone is simple nostalgia-brainwashed logic if you ask me. Until I can see any notable arguments, that is. In fact, dropping one altogether would be WORSE as it could seriously waste a good opportunity. I'm not vouching for a Brawl-style SSE, I simply would like to see something a little more unique. I should start a thread on ideal Story Modes for Smash 4 sometime later......
 

NitrusVirus

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Who says he threw it away? Just because he's not making the story mode SSE 2 doesn't mean the positive values are lost. I think we're going to get an enhanced Adventure Mode from Melee, with elements from SSE mixed in. It'd be the best of both worlds.
Well yeah I know that but I can pretty much bet that we wont get anything near the scale or undertaking that SSE was. Itll just be Adventure Mode with Boss fights, thats it. I mean I even made a thread about it a while back. All because Sakurais butthurt about cutscenes on Youtube.
 

Jumpman84

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Well yeah I know that but I can pretty much bet that we wont get anything near the scale or undertaking that SSE was. Itll just be Adventure Mode with Boss fights, thats it. I mean I even made a thread about it a while back. All because Sakurais butthurt about cutscenes on Youtube.
Except that has nothing to do with story mode. That comment was just referring to the cutscenes, which is a legitimate point. It takes away the value of the cutscenes as a reward if you can just watch them on the internet without playing through the game.

Besides, apparently a lot of people (at least ones who complained loud enough) didn't like it and blamed it for the game's quality (they think Brawl is a bad game for some reason). So Sakurai decided not to do it based on this feedback. The few ruin it for everyone, you know.
 

Niko Mar

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Well yeah I know that but I can pretty much bet that we wont get anything near the scale or undertaking that SSE was. Itll just be Adventure Mode with Boss fights, thats it. I mean I even made a thread about it a while back. All because Sakurais butthurt about cutscenes on Youtube.
I wonder if that excuse is actually legitimate, or if he just made it up because Nintendo wanted Smash Bros. faster (being a system seller and all). Either way, that's still like the weirdest excuse I've every heard. Imagine if the "Heavy Rain and Beyond: Two Souls" guy said the same thing about his next game :troll:.
 

Sabrewulf238

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I don't remember it having that good a plot, the focus was more on flashy cinematics than story.

Also one thing I didn't like was how playing it robbed us of "challenger approaching" moments and the subsequent battle to unlock them. I loved that from melee but didn't experience it much in brawl.
 

MSmariosonic

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SSE is probably the best single player brawl has. I loved seeing my favorite characters of all time interacting with eachother.
 

josh bones

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I don't remember it having that good a plot, the focus was more on flashy cinematics than story.

Also one thing I didn't like was how playing it robbed us of "challenger approaching" moments and the subsequent battle to unlock them. I loved that from melee but didn't experience it much in brawl.
You know you can still do that right? Subspace is optional. I did stamina with 1HP for all my characters.
 

PikaJew

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Going from Melee's adventure mode that had absolutely 0 plot, made no sense, had no speaking and was just a glorified classic mode SE was a huge improvement.

People just love to complain.
 

Papa+Stone

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Being better than crap doesnt excuse it, cars 2 was better than the new wikileaks video but that doesnt make it amazing by any means. I voted for mitt romney over obama but that doesnt mean hes a fantastic nominee, it just means hes better. Still terrible though
 

D-idara

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The characters were in a different Smash World.
Yes I do agree that bringing everyone's worlds together would have been more interesting, but they still managed to create an immersive world.

I feel if they included the prologue into SE everything would have made more sense, but instead they left a lot of of up to interpretation.
Which was pretty easy to figure out. Tabuu is bad and trying to bring the world into Subspace, the bad characters remain bad, heroes need to band together to save their world. It's not that confusing. The only real confusing thing was trying to figure out what made Mr. Game & Watch so special. But everything is explained in the prologue and suggest everyone read it to understand. It really is interesting.
http://supersmashbros.wikia.com/wiki/Adventure_Mode:_The_Subspace_Emissary

I feel if they kept the main story line, worked in some of the prologue into the actual story, but instead had Tabuu suck the different franchises into Subspace. That would have made for a more memorable scene with fighting through mushroom kingdom and then all of a sudden the Great Fox is flying through Dream Land.

The overall Smash World was pretty basic, and the enemies were somewhat forgettable, but the originality was there. Melee had already done the jumping from world to world plot so they wanted to try something different. And it worked.

I got submerged into the Smash World. I don't give a **** that the backgrounds were plain, the characters were designed to fit that world perfectly. And the cutscenes worked perfectly. They helped to bring it all together. It was amazing seeing them the first time. Fox going 1 on 1 with the Halberd, Dedede slapping Bowser, Wario doing his **** face at the Ness trophy, and so many others.

The side - scrolling never really got stale for me. That's what the 1 player mode was meant to be. It was fun trying all of the new characters and being forced to choose some that are out of your comfort zone, so that kept the mode fresh.

No one expected character development, but it was in there. And better than any most of the recent video games story modes. You got a cowardly boy who watched his friend get stolen and did nothing to stop it. He finds someone on his journey who he can look up to and helps make him more courageous. He conquers the enemy while at the same time conquering his fears. He manages to muster up enough courage to save the helpless Pokemon Trainer. Ultimately becoming a better person.

R.O.B. watches as he commands an army of his brethren to selflessly sacrifice themselves for the "greater good". He is so ashamed of what he has become that he disguises himself. He is constantly watching his own kind die everyday to fulfil the duties that he commands them. All while he is serving a greater evil. He finally has seen enough of his people die and comes out of hiding to fight for them.

I can understand why 'repetitive side-scrolling', 'original landscape and enemies' and 'lack of other worlds' can be discerning to some people, but that in no way ruins the story. Sure it could make it better, but anything can be improved from what it is.
That doesn't make the Subspace Emissary any less of a fantastic and engaging journey through an immersive new world with all of your favourite Nintendo characters.

I loved Subspace Emissary. Sure it gets dull after a bunch of plays throughs, but so does any adventure game.
I'm sure if you go back and played it again you'd finally appreciate it.

THIS. THIS. SO MUCH THIS! If you were seriously not moved by any of the things mentioned in this post...you're not a Nintendo fan, you just like fighting games. I'll have to add the part when Samus finally finds her Varia Suit and the alarms go off as "Samus Aran, Space Warrior" starts playing and she BURSTS out of the room with her suit, looking down at Pikachu, nodding and walking epicly.
 

Papa+Stone

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If thats what it takes to be a true nintendo fan then so be it, that story was anime and cheesy and therefor bad. The worst parts though were the ones with ridley in them, metroid is a stupid franchise with the fattest community ever, its only alive because of the marketing gimmicks they did by making samus a girl in the newer games, it just hasnt been the same since. I hope ridley doesnt get in to teach a lesson to the metroid fans, and i hope this time americans are in charge of the action videos, preferable michael bay or someone with experience
 
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