Why do you Think many Dislike Dark Pit?

[N3ON]

Such last minute clones are part of those exceptions, you see...

Adding or excluding a character or two from a series' count doesn't change the point though, it's still a clear trend.

I wasn't solely addressing your post, but also some general points addressed in posts above. Sorry if I wasn't clear.

Okee~

Fair enough. People aren't obligated to like Dark Pit, but I just feel that this subject has been done to death. That's all.

I feel like there isn't a subject that hasn't been done to death. Things are cyclical in part because there's always new people weighing in on old topics.

I like him as a character, you know me well. And don't care about that he's a clone, so yeah, I'm happy that he's in regardless.

There's no character I dislike in any of the Smash games. Game is far too much fun for that and I always end up playing as everyone just to try everyone out.

To each their own. There have been characters I wasn't fond of in every iteration of Smash (though less so with 64), but clearly it hasn't impeded by overall fondness for the series haha.

My expectation was him being a Pit alt, but the fact they gave him some individual fluff (pretty much the Final Smash, taunts and win poses) isn't something I can object at all.

I had a feeling that Lucina and Dark Pit would show up as alts for Marth and Pit. Both from successful 3DS games, both popular characters among their series' fans and both were easy to implement into the game given similar designs and whatnot. Seems the development had this same idea, though they had some extra time and resources to flesh them out as their own characters, even if as very blatant clones.

Good call I guess. Though I still think Alph would've made for a better independent alt than Dark Pit.

 

[Wintropy]

I'm not normally nasty, I just felt I had to get my feelings about Pit off my chest. It's kind of a personal Berserk Button.

No johns. You flew off the handle and got salty about a particular character in that particular character's forum - seriously, could you not have said it in a more friendly manner, or at least said it in a private conversation?

Insinuating that Pit is a "worthless character" and that fans of the character are "weaboo fangirls" is not a nice thing to say. It makes you seem like a nasty person and that's not cool.

I'm not even sure why we need threads like this. They invariably lead to tedious arguments and hair-pulling over trivial issues.

But hey, do what thou wilt. You've said your piece, I've said mine, and let people react however they feel like.

 

[HeavyLobster]

No johns. You flew off the handle and got salty about a particular character in that particular character's forum - seriously, could you not have said it in a more friendly manner, or at least said it in a private conversation?

Insinuating that Pit is a "worthless character" and that fans of the character are "weaboo fangirls" is not a nice thing to say. It makes you seem like a nasty person and that's not cool.

Well the thread is about why people dislike Dark Pit, so it's perfectly appropriate to explain why I don't like him. I did say in the post that I didn't mean to come off that way. Pit is honestly a character that falls into the "love to hate" category to me, as my sister(a weeaboo fangirl) and one of my friends play him, so he's sort of my personal nemesis, and I guess I could've explained it better, as I do like to mock them for their choice of main, though I guess it's ok to like whoever you want. I really just wanted to explain my personal distaste for the Pits, and I guess the language I used was excessive, so I do apologize for the way I said things.

 

[Frostwraith]

To each their own. There have been characters I wasn't fond of in every iteration of Smash (though less so with 64), but clearly it hasn't impeded by overall fondness for the series haha.

The worse I've felt about a character in Smash is indifference. lol

Good call I guess. Though I still think Alph would've made for a better independent alt than Dark Pit.

IMO I think the best would have been to have Alph separated alongside the trio that got such treatment, but I'd say Alph would have required more work to be separated and have something to stand out, so I guess that's why they didn't separate him.

After all, Dr. Mario and Dark Pit's more unique moves (Dr. Tornado, Dr. Mario's down aerial and Dark Pit Staff) are all based on other characters' moves (Luigi and Zelda), while Lucina had just a small change in her hitboxes (remove the tipper). Minimal work is what they were aiming for (justified as they were running out of time and resources), so they picked the alts that worked in accordance to that goal.

Anyway, having all four character alts separated would have been a better situation. Everyone would win, I'd say.

The only exception would be the Koopalings, for obvious reasons.

 

[KyroChao]

I can't argue with that, since Doc is my Melee main and all~


Is the damage / knockback spiel true? I've heard conflicting evidence.

It is, i main Dark pit myself and secondary regular pit, and can definitely tell the differences immediately. Its kind of subtle but it is there. DP does more damage all around(some ariels i believe actually do like 1 or 2 less if not the same)and just has less knickknack by comparison, as pit seems to kill at a bit of lower percentages than DP

 

[Frostwraith]

It is, i main Dark pit myself and secondary regular pit, and can definitely tell the differences immediately. Its kind of subtle but it is there. DP does more damage all around(some ariels i believe actually do like 1 or 2 less if not the same)and just has less knickknack by comparison, as pit seems to kill at a bit of lower percentages than DP

Nah, the only differences are:
-> Neutral B: Silver Bow - Stronger arrows, but harder to control.
-> Side B: Electroshock Arm - Angled knockback instead of upwards. Deals the same damage, but has an electric effect (Yellow Pikmin are immune to it, but gives longer hit stun).
-> Side A: Less knockback in both sour and sweet spots, but deals the same damage.
-> Final Smash: Dark Pit Staff - Same as Zelda's Final Smash in regards to damage output and knockback intensity.

Tested both Pit and Dark Pit in training and I play as them regularly as well.

 

[PhantomShab]

why is Dark Pit in the newest installment of the game?

Sakurai is biased to Kid Icarus.

Dark Pit was originally going to be an alternate costume for Pit, but when they realised that Pit's final smash made no sense for Dark Pit due to the fact that Dark Pit never used the three sacred treasures in 'Kid Icarus: Uprising' they split the characters and implemented the Silver Bow and Electroshock Arm and removed the tipper on his aerials to make him feel like a different character from Pit, while giving him the Dark Pit Staff (a Light Arrow clone to indicate the main use of staffs in the game: long-range sniping) in the place of the Three Sacred Treasures.

Which is a load of hypocritical BS. Ness never used PSI Fire, Thunder, and Magnet in EarthBound. Ganondorf has never done like, virtually anything he does in Captain Falcon's his moveset. Why make an exception for Dark Pit?

I get the impression you have a bias

Bias is exactly what got Dark Pit a place in the roster.

and k.rool is owned by rare not nintendo.

Um...no. No he isn't. If he were, Nintendo would have needed Rare's permission to use K. Rool's trophy. Rare doesn't own any Donkey Kong character.

As for the posts saying Dark Samus would be a Samus clone, have you even played the games she appeared in? Or even seen her assist trophy in action? A Phazon-based moveset would be pretty cool. Granted, Sakurai would likely just make her a clone, yeah.

 

[Frostwraith]

People complain about bias from Sakurai's part. If it was another developer, there likely would have been bias as well, just towards other series and elements. *shrugs*

Every human being is biased. A direct consequence of people having different viewpoints, opinions and preferences...

Sakurai does his games in accordance to his own viewpoint, just like any other developer out there. This comes with good and bad things, as with everything.

Ask yourself this: if you designed your own game, wouldn't you likely do things your own way for the most part?

 

[Yong Dekonk]

I don't buy Sakurai's statement that Dark Pit and Dr. Mario were originally intended to be a palette swap. He had to know from the very beginning that it would make no sense to have Dr. Mario shoot fireballs and to have Dark Pit using Pit's weapons...

 

[TMNTSSB4]

I don't buy Sakurai's statement that Dark Pit and Dr. Mario were originally intended to be a palette swap. He had to know from the very beginning that it would make no sense to have Dr. Mario shoot fireballs and to have Dark Pit using Pit's weapons...

Dr Mario could've been like how Project M handled him(but doing the same damage amount as Mario in Smash 4), and Pittoo same thing but using his weapons, lighting, voice, and taunts(maybe).

 

[ZephyrZ]

I don't buy Sakurai's statement that Dark Pit and Dr. Mario were originally intended to be a palette swap. He had to know from the very beginning that it would make no sense to have Dr. Mario shoot fireballs and to have Dark Pit using Pit's weapons...

The only weapons that are elusive to Pit are the 3 Sacred Treasures. And to be honest Doc fighting doesn't really make a whole of sense in the first place, but that's Smash, ya know?

If Sakurai was lying, I'm sure there'd be far more differences between Pit and Dark Pit then there actually are.

 

[Yong Dekonk]

The only weapons that are elusive to Pit are the 3 Sacred Treasures. And to be honest Doc fighting doesn't really make a whole of sense in the first place, but that's Smash, ya know?

If Sakurai was lying, I'm sure there'd be far more differences between Pit and Dark Pit then there actually are.

If Sakurai was being completely honest in his statement that Dark Pit and Dr. Mario were initially planned to be palette swaps he would have had to conceive the following absurdities.

-Dr. Mario will shoot fireballs. This is especially implausible given his move set in melee.
-Dr. Mario will use the water pump. Another deviation from his melee iteration that would seem weird at the start.
-Dark Pit will use 3 sacred treasures which is canonically absurd. Also given Sakurai's involvement with the KI franchise I don't think he ever thought this would work.

This is all just my speculation, but I think Sakurai knew very early on that these characters would not work as palette swaps.

I'm actually very happy about Dr. Mario's inclusion although I wish he was buffed a bit. Dark Pit however I'm not a fan of even as a Pit main. For reasons others have already stated.

 

[Cyberguy64]

I absolutely love that this thread is asking why people hate Dark Pit, people come in and explain in detail why they dislike/despise him, and then they get called biased and other unpleasant terms for stating their opinion THAT WAS SPECIFICALLY ASKED FOR.

Long and short of it, N3ON hit the nail on the head with their post. He's the epitome of everything that's wrong with clone characters and the premium, standout example of Sakurai bias, all wrapped up into one nice, neat, blackwashed package for easy despising. He's almost a scapegoat, except not really, because he does have all the failings listed.

Honestly, I don't see his current appeal in Smash. He's Pit. Again. But this time, dark and edgy. One of his appealing traits in Uprising was that he WASN'T just an evil version of Pit. He was the "Darkness in Pit's Heart." given form, but Pit's heart was so pure all he ended up being was a bit of a selfish jerk who's not all that selfish in the end. Much more interesting then "I'm Shadow the Edgehog: Angel Edition."

But you know what? Out of all the shadow clones in all of Nintendo's history I STILL wouldn't have picked Dark Pit to be a clone. You know why?

He's. Not. Important.

At. All.

He's a side character in a franchise with only three games to its name. Pikmin has only had three games, but at least Alph was a lead of a recent game, like Lucas. Lucina was a main character in a long running franchise. Dr. Mario IS his own franchise. People like Ridley and K. Rool are archnemesises with seniority. There are series and characters that still have next to nothing in Smash. And who gets promoted to playable? The jerky clone of a C-list hero whose game was directed by Mr. Biasakurai.

I'd apologize, but really, you literally asked for this. I have no remorse.

Screw. Dark. Pit.

 

[N3ON]

I think the "dark" version of the MC is a trope that's pretty much been done to death at this point. Now it just seems lazy.

However there's always an audience that think the best way to make a character cooler is give them a darker colour scheme and an anti-hero's disposition.

 

[KyroChao]

Okay, this is getting repetitive.

I don't buy Sakurai's statement that Dark Pit and Dr. Mario were originally intended to be a palette swap. He had to know from the very beginning that it would make no sense to have Dr. Mario shoot fireballs and to have Dark Pit using Pit's weapons...

Hence the roster additions in the first place. They made new spots for them so that they werent just palette's, so that dr.mario had pills, so that dark pit didnt use the three sacred treasures (lucina is inexcusable)

And i think the bias card on sakurai is a cheap blow. Kid Icarus just got revived, thanks to sakurai. It was well recieved THANKS TO SAKURAI. Its only natural that he's going to see that as something to use in smash, a lot of items work in smash, a lot of enemies fit in smash run. Yes, it is bias in a way, but you didnt develop the game. Atleast you even have the game, so why does it matter if dark pit got in, especially since the amount of effort did not take from another characters chance. I think its time a lot of you opened your eyes or simply grew up and acted mature about it. If you don't like it, fine thats your choice, but that shouldnt be a god forsaken thing. Again, we didn't make the game.

Plus, Sakurai makes his games based around what he wants from the final product, not the fans.

 

[Cyberguy64]

Okay, this is getting repetitive.

Hence the roster additions in the first place. They made new spots for them so that they werent just palette's, so that dr.mario had pills, so that dark pit didnt use the three sacred treasures (lucina is inexcusable)

And i think the bias card on sakurai is a cheap blow. Kid Icarus just got revived, thanks to sakurai. It was well recieved THANKS TO SAKURAI. Its only natural that he's going to see that as something to use in smash, a lot of items work in smash, a lot of enemies fit in smash run. Yes, it is bias in a way, but you didnt develop the game. Atleast you even have the game, so why does it matter if dark pit got in, especially since the amount of effort did not take from another characters chance. I think its time a lot of you opened your eyes or simply grew up and acted mature about it. If you don't like it, fine thats your choice, but that shouldnt be a god forsaken thing. Again, we didn't make the game.

Plus, Sakurai makes his games based around what he wants from the final product, not the fans.

He're a fun fact for you. Sakurai isn't the one who the game is being made for. It's being made for us, the fans who are actually buying the game. Do you know what you get when a developer starts putting stuff in that he wants but the fans don't want?

You get this:

You get this:

You get this:

Sakurai saved Kid Icarus from the pit of irrelevance with Uprising. That's fine and dandy. But you know what? It's still just one game.

One. Freaking. Game.

It does not warrant all the additions to Smash as though it was contemporary with Mario or Zelda or Pokemon. Poor Donkey Kong is still going strong with new, best selling games, and he only gets one, poorly concieved, new stage, with its additions to the soundtrack consisting primarily of Jungle Japes remixes over and over again.

Bias is a perfectly reasonable accusation to level at Sakurai. And to see you trying to defend him for playing favorites with Nintendo's biggest all stars is laughable, and that's the nicest way to put it.

 

[KyroChao]

I'll just quote someone else for you then.

Wintropy:
"
Sakurai brought Kid Icarus back from obscurity and made a game so chock-full of content and memorable that he wouldn't have to make another game. Which is just as well, considering he has no plans to make a sequel.

Smash 4 is, as well as anything else, Kid Icarus's legacy testament. Sakurai didn't deliberately include loads and loads of content from the game to stroke his ego, he did it because it was convenient and he knows people are fans of the game. That it will ensure Kid Icarus continues for a long time to come is just a bonus feature.

Long story short, Kid Icarus pretty much needs Smash to carry on. Unless another developer decides to pick up Pit and friends - and Sakurai has made it clear he's hesitant to pass on the reins to somebody else - the series is pretty much finished. In a game that has over fifty characters, why would one extra character - that, it must be stressed, took about a month of dev time, at most, to create - be such a big deal? It may seem like Dark Pit was included just so
Sakurai could pat himself on the back for how well he did for himself, but it's also a tribute to Kid Icarus fans. It's the way Kid Icarus will carry on, regardless of whether or not Sakurai or another developer intends on formally continuing the series: the conversation between Pit and Pittoo in their Palutena's Guidance speech proves that Sakurai is enabling his characters to tell their story even after Uprising's credits have finished rolling.


Is it bias? Without a doubt. But bias is not necessarily a bad thing. Sakurai is biased towards his series because it's his series. He can't do anything with, say, F-Zero or Mother because they aren't his series. He has no reason to or intent to tell those characters' stories, because he's not developing those games or telling those stories in the first place. Kid Icarus relies on Sakurai, though, and he has an opportunity to do something with that series to please fans and show them that there's still something to look forward to. I may not be a big fan of Pittoo as a character - I prefer Pit myself - but I'm very, very happy that he won't be ditched or tossed into the trash heap anytime soon."

_Darkpit_ said: ↑
It is a pity if many gamers hate that Darkpit is in. I think this is the last SSB4 and Kid Icarus will not get a sequel. Mario, Link, Pokemon etc. will ever have a sequel. Kid Icarus fans like me want to have more things from Kid Icarus series. Mario, Link, Pokemon fans etc. will get a lot of sequels. For Kid Icarus fans its '' game over ''. Begrudge the Kid Icarus fans that they have once more than 1 game. The fans of other franchise especially the named should be glad that they will have a sequel after another.

SSB4 got one time much Kid Icarus contents and you're complaining about it? Its a shame. It shows how spoilt Mario, Zelda, Pokemon fans etc. are with their 1.000.000 sequels.

Ask a Kid Icarus fan in 7 years how many games they got. Your answer will be 0.

Ask a Zelda, Mario ................ fan how many games they got. Do you understand what I mean?

For a Kid Icarus fan, Sakurai and SSB4 are great help for these particularly franchise. And Fans like me think Kid Icarus deserves to get sequels like Mario, Zelda etc.

Kid Icarus isn't on an equal footing like Zelda for example. But it doesn't mean that Kid Icarus hasn't the potenzial to be it.
Try Kid Icarus Uprising and you'll know what I mean.

Darkpit is an unique dark character. He isn't just the villain angel if you think that and he is very different from the others.

I think people who hate him, have prejudices.



Props to both of them for summing up every reason why the Dark Pit haters need to pay attention and realize there are people who like Him and Kid icarus

Double post, sorry

 

[Sol0ke]

He didn't give Ganon the Blue Falcon, so I'm ok with Dark Pit having a different final smash also

 

[Cyberguy64]

I'll just quote someone else for you then.

Wintropy:
"
Sakurai brought Kid Icarus back from obscurity and made a game so chock-full of content and memorable that he wouldn't have to make another game. Which is just as well, considering he has no plans to make a sequel.

Smash 4 is, as well as anything else, Kid Icarus's legacy testament. Sakurai didn't deliberately include loads and loads of content from the game to stroke his ego, he did it because it was convenient and he knows people are fans of the game. That it will ensure Kid Icarus continues for a long time to come is just a bonus feature.

Long story short, Kid Icarus pretty much needs Smash to carry on. Unless another developer decides to pick up Pit and friends - and Sakurai has made it clear he's hesitant to pass on the reins to somebody else - the series is pretty much finished. In a game that has over fifty characters, why would one extra character - that, it must be stressed, took about a month of dev time, at most, to create - be such a big deal? It may seem like Dark Pit was included just so
Sakurai could pat himself on the back for how well he did for himself, but it's also a tribute to Kid Icarus fans. It's the way Kid Icarus will carry on, regardless of whether or not Sakurai or another developer intends on formally continuing the series: the conversation between Pit and Pittoo in their Palutena's Guidance speech proves that Sakurai is enabling his characters to tell their story even after Uprising's credits have finished rolling.


Is it bias? Without a doubt. But bias is not necessarily a bad thing. Sakurai is biased towards his series because it's his series. He can't do anything with, say, F-Zero or Mother because they aren't his series. He has no reason to or intent to tell those characters' stories, because he's not developing those games or telling those stories in the first place. Kid Icarus relies on Sakurai, though, and he has an opportunity to do something with that series to please fans and show them that there's still something to look forward to. I may not be a big fan of Pittoo as a character - I prefer Pit myself - but I'm very, very happy that he won't be ditched or tossed into the trash heap anytime soon."

_Darkpit_ said: ↑
It is a pity if many gamers hate that Darkpit is in. I think this is the last SSB4 and Kid Icarus will not get a sequel. Mario, Link, Pokemon etc. will ever have a sequel. Kid Icarus fans like me want to have more things from Kid Icarus series. Mario, Link, Pokemon fans etc. will get a lot of sequels. For Kid Icarus fans its '' game over ''. Begrudge the Kid Icarus fans that they have once more than 1 game. The fans of other franchise especially the named should be glad that they will have a sequel after another.

SSB4 got one time much Kid Icarus contents and you're complaining about it? Its a shame. It shows how spoilt Mario, Zelda, Pokemon fans etc. are with their 1.000.000 sequels.

Ask a Kid Icarus fan in 7 years how many games they got. Your answer will be 0.

Ask a Zelda, Mario ................ fan how many games they got. Do you understand what I mean?

For a Kid Icarus fan, Sakurai and SSB4 are great help for these particularly franchise. And Fans like me think Kid Icarus deserves to get sequels like Mario, Zelda etc.

Kid Icarus isn't on an equal footing like Zelda for example. But it doesn't mean that Kid Icarus hasn't the potenzial to be it.
Try Kid Icarus Uprising and you'll know what I mean.

Darkpit is an unique dark character. He isn't just the villain angel if you think that and he is very different from the others.

I think people who hate him, have prejudices.



Props to both of them for summing up every reason why the Dark Pit haters need to pay attention and realize there are people who like Him and Kid icarus

"Smash 4 is, as well as anything else, Kid Icarus's legacy testament."
No. No no no No NO NO NO.
This is Super. Freaking. Smash. Bros. This is a collection of Nintendo's overall history. Where series both living and dead can come together and clash for the amusement of all. It is not a place where series that didn't can't cut the mustard on their own get all their material dumped to live vicariously through. If a series can't stand on it's own without piggybacking on Smash, MAYBE IT DOESN'T DESERVE TO HOG THE LION'S SHARE OF DEAD SERIES MATERIAL!

This utterly kills me. Metroid fans got snubbed. Donkey Kong fans got snubbed. Golden Sun fans got snubbed. Earthbound fans got snubbed. Star Fox fans got snubbed. Ice Climbers fans got snubbed. Some of them feel resentment towards Blackwing McEmohair getting in when Kid Icaras already got a ridiculously disproportionate amount of its crap in Smash, despite ONLYHAVING THREE GAMES IN EXISTANCE!

But you people keep going "No! Bias isn't really bad! Stop attacking Sakurai for playing favorites that I happen to share!"

No. NO! NO!

You're even more biased then Sakurai! No wonder you keep telling us there's nothing wrong with having one!

Bottom line, he's a bit character from a bit game, and he, as well as Kid Icarus Uprising as a whole, do NOT deserve the massive amount of material that got into Smash over other series.

 

[KyroChao]

Smash 4 is, as well as anything else, Kid Icarus's legacy testament.

 

[Rugal Cuttah]

After doing a bit of battling and fights with Dark Pit, many people online, and on YouTube videos discuss that Dark Pit is a waste of space on the roster. My question on this thread is... Why? I know how Dark Pit is basically a Clone of Pit. This even applies with their movesets too. Then here it lies, why is Dark Pit in the newest installment of the game? What do you think? Please leave a reply below this new thread so I can hear what you have to say.

For me its probably cause he most effortless made character, just turn pit black and presto you have dark pit. Sightly change his special attacks and most of same normal animations attack as pit. His only unique move true to the kid icarus game is his final smash rifle he uses in the actual origin game. I would be more forgiving if had more rifle attacks as it was his signature in kid icarus 3ds. That is why he just a waste of roster space. Think Medusa would been a better choice since she has more history with kid icarus in general, being the bosses of older kid icarus titles. Medusa was pretty funny in the 3ds game of icarus too.

 

[KyroChao]

If theres no negatives to his inclusion, how is he a wasteof space? Are we calling Dr.Mario and Lucina wastes too? No, they aren't, they all three only tooka month and didnt cut anyone as a result

 

[Rugal Cuttah]

At least Lucina,roy,doctor mario and gannondorf had very different appearances. The best non clone of same character is zero suit samus, really someone worth defending cause she is so entirely different in animation, play style, special moves and appearance to her power armor counterpart. I feel defending Sheik for the same reasons and same final smash as zelda is self explained in zelda games.

If theres no negatives to his inclusion, how is he a wasteof space? Are we calling Dr.Mario and Lucina wastes too? No, they aren't, they all three only tooka month and didnt cut anyone as a result

I guess if like clone character, be my guest, like them. I defend them cause how effortless it is to make them
and how similar dark pit is too regular pit in animation and moves. All he has unique too him is his final smash and his easily changed ranged attack-being just a bit slower and more powerful than regular pit. A golden sun rep would be better to see than this. Entirely new character from scratch.

 

[KyroChao]

Difference with dark pit that doesnt apply to about half of those is that Dark pit, lucina, and dr.mario were originally alts, but given actual slots because it didnt make sense for dark pit to use the three sacred treasures, dr.mario doesnt throw fireballs or use fludd, and lucina.... She has no different moves.

And where in the world did you get the idea that ZSS is a clone? Or Sheik for that matter???

I guess if like clone character, be my guest, like them. I defend them cause how effortless it is to make them
and how similar dark pit is too regular pit in animation and moves. All he has unique too him is his final smash and his easily changed ranged attack-being just a bit slower and more powerful than regular pit. A golden sun rep would be better to see than this. Entirely new character from scratch.

AGAIN, the time that went into the three clones was next to nothing and like sakurai said, there were no more characters planned at the point they were made and none of them caused this. Whats your point?

 

[Rugal Cuttah]

Difference with dark pit that doesnt apply to about half of those is that Dark pit, lucina, and dr.mario were originally alts, but given actual slots because it didnt make sense for dark pit to use the three sacred treasures, dr.mario doesnt throw fireballs or use fludd, and lucina.... She has no different moves.

And where in the world did you get the idea that ZSS is a clone? Or Sheik for that matter???

I never said they were. It is characters that are actually worth defending. Unless I miss typed.

AGAIN, the time that went into the three clones was next to nothing and like sakurai said, there were no more characters planned at the point they were made and none of them caused this. Whats your point?

Wasted roster space as the thread says if and why you or i think it. Wasted roster potential is my point to this argument as explained why time and again.

 

[KyroChao]

I misread since you put non clone, but thats not the same case anyways. A character with a different and unique moveset is not an issue in any way as it adds diversity. Why your using that as an argument makes no sense

POTENTIAL=/= planned

If your hate is aimed at the possibility of other actual characters, then you need to realize you werent going to get anyone anyways, even if the three clones werent added. There would have been no characters in their place

 

[Rugal Cuttah]

I misread since you put non clone, but thats not the same case anyways. A character with a different and unique moveset is not an issue in any way as it adds diversity. Why your using that as an argument makes no sense

To you maybe but oh well. If my insight is my own so be it. I can live with other not agreeing but its not pointless (to me)anyways. I ll just kindly say you do not see eye to eye on matter and i ll leave it at that.

 

[KyroChao]

@ Cyberguy64
If thats your argument, then quit getting salty over it. Your getting mad over a character that got in last minute because there was extra time. True, fans of other series got snubbed, ive not once denied that, but if dark pit didnt deserve a spot, then neither did Dr.Mario Or lucina, especially not lucina.

You also forget that Sakurai made smash bros. Sakurai Made Kid Icarus. He can represent his franchise As.He.Pleases.

Im done arguing this with you, i was enjoying having a good debate, but im just disgusted now

To you maybe but oh well. If my insight is my own so be it. I can live with other not agreeing but its not pointless (to me)anyways. I ll just kindly say you do not see eye to eye on matter and i ll leave it at that.

To each their own indeed, after all, atleast we can still smash at all c:

 

[Rugal Cuttah]

POTENTIAL=/= planned

If your hate is aimed at the possibility of other actual characters, then you need to realize you werent going to get anyone anyways, even if the three clones werent added. There would have been no characters in their place

Your much better to the point than some i have met on their views on matter. Some are reduces to insults and that you have my thanks for being proper.

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

Adding onto this...

11. He was a minor antagonist in his own debut
12. He took up spaces on the roster that could have easily been taken by other characters that made more sense
13. He has nothing that makes him memorable outside of "evil duplicate of main hero"
14. Other characters could have been substituted in his place and nobody would have cared
15. He's not significant to Nintendo, nor is he even significant to Uprising; Magnus is more significant to Uprising than Dark Pit was
16. He's literally a walking archetype (evil version of hero has opposite personality to hero)
17. He doesn't add anything to the pre-existing Pit moveset like Doctor Mario does to Mario's moveset, or like Lucina does to Marth's moveset; he's literally a duplicate of Pit with minor tweaks to his moves, a swapped pallate, new victory poses and new voice and announcer clips.
18. He's literally what would happen if Dark Samus was a playable character; a clone with little gameplay-wise changed besides some move properties and the Final Smash.

11. He was supporting character with a key role in the plot. You would know this if you played Uprising.
12. No. People call this out due to ignorance. He didn't take your favorite character's spot since he wasn't planned to be in the begginning.
13. Subjective, but for a lot of people his exchanges with the rest of the cast and his being parody of the dark side archetype make him memorable.
14. The same can be said for non-clone characters that other people care nothing about.
15. Remember how significant were Ness or the Ice Climbers to Nintendo before Smash? Of course you don't. And again, play Uprising.
16. A parody of it, and I fail to see how this is a bad thing when another character like Wario happens to be also an opposite of someone like Mario.
17. I'll give you that, but at the same time it's harmless.
18. You've never played Metroid Prime before, haven't you?

Not super big on K. Rool and Ridley myself, but it definitely rubs their fans the wrong way when a worthless clone gets in over real characters. As far as personal bias, I confess to having a deep, abiding, and irrational hatred of Pit and all his reskins, to the point of refusing to try out Uprising solely because of Pit being the main character. I have hated Pit ever since first seeing him in Smash and have never stopped, and I definitely feel it's pathetic that such a worthless character gets a reboot and disproportionate representation in Smash when far better characters like Takamaru languish. I don't understand how anyone but a weeaboo fangirl could possibly stand either one. Sorry if I'm coming off as vitriolic, as I'm usually not like this, but that is how I honestly feel about Pit.

Let's see here; confesses being irrational and hateful, refuses to play game for childish reasons, calls Pit's character worthless, deprecates the latest entry in the franchise which a lot of people appreciated and patronizes others to the level of "weaboo fangirl" for not detesting him in the same way you do.
Almost inmediately you admit your bias and then lower yourself to the point where your moral ground is pretty much non-existent yet you still want to call out on Dark Pit's inclusion. What a delicious irony. Since you can't make a mature argument it's no wonder why we can't take your say in the matter seriously.

 

[PhantomShab]

And i think the bias card on sakurai is a cheap blow.

Not really, especially when it's so blatantly obvious.

Kid Icarus just got revived, thanks to sakurai. It was well recieved THANKS TO SAKURAI.

It's also never getting another game as far as we know, thanks to Sakurai. Kind of pointless to make the franchise look bigger than the likes of Metroid or Donkey Kong if it's just going right back into forgotten irrelevancy tbh.

Yes, it is bias in a way, but you didnt develop the game.

Please don't use such a cop-out defense like this. Of course none of us here made the game. Does that not make us qualified to have complaints or something?

Plus, Sakurai makes his games based around what he wants from the final product, not the fans.

It'd be nice if he listened to the fans a bit more. We are kind of the people who are paying money for the game he made.

He can represent his franchise As.He.Pleases.

Would you still be saying this if the roster was literally nothing but Kid Icarus characters?

The thing is, it's not just Dark Pit that highlights Sakurai's bias. Palutena does as well. Don't get me wrong, it's not because she's in the roster or anything. It's the fact that out of any other character, Palutena got special treatment with her custom moves. Rather than just tweaks of moves the rest of the roster got, Palutena's custom are all entirely new moves that were added because...well, Sakurai is bias. Rather than using that time to de-clone the untapped goldmine that is Ganondorf, he goes and gives Palutena more and more unique moves. It's disgustingly unfair.

 

[HeavyLobster]

Let's see here; confesses being irrational and hateful, refuses to play game for childish reasons, calls Pit's character worthless, deprecates the latest entry in the franchise which a lot of people appreciated and patronizes others to the level of "weaboo fangirl" for not detesting him in the same way you do.
Almost inmediately you admit your bias and then lower yourself to the point where your moral ground is pretty much non-existent yet you still want to call out on Dark Pit's inclusion. What a delicious irony. Since you can't make a mature argument it's no wonder why we can't take your say in the matter seriously.

I already apologized about the way I said things. I don't even really care about Dark Pit's inclusion, I just hate both Pits as characters. I definitely regret making that post because it reflects poorly on me. I did not call anyone a weeaboo fangirl, I said I didn't understand the appeal of the character beyond said demographic.(It's also a term I use to describe my sister in tongue-in-cheek fashion that somehow slipped out) I often have a tendency to be excessively honest, and that post was me being way too honest about my distaste for the character and how I find his fanbase annoying(mainly because I'm surrounded by Pit fans) in a public forum largely dedicated to said fanbase.

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

It's also never getting another game as far as we know, thanks to Sakurai. Kind of pointless to make the franchise look bigger than the likes of Metroid or Donkey Kong if it's just going right back into forgotten irrelevancy tbh.

That doesn't make sense. If the franchise is small and unlikely to get a game then that's more of a reason to use content from it rather than leave it to die, same goes for how they added fighters from another niche franchise like Fire Emblem, so that perhaps even one day it may attract interest. It behooves Nintendo to bring attention to the "lesser" series as well. DK or Metroid will always have another game around the corner so it's not like they need the spotlight that badly.

The thing is, it's not just Dark Pit that highlights Sakurai's bias. Palutena does as well. Don't get me wrong, it's not because she's in the roster or anything. It's the fact that out of any other character, Palutena got special treatment with her custom moves. Rather than just tweaks of moves the rest of the roster got, Palutena's custom are all entirely new moves that were added because...well, Sakurai is bias. Rather than using that time to de-clone the untapped goldmine that is Ganondorf, he goes and gives Palutena more and more unique moves. It's disgustingly unfair.

I understand the notion of a more unique Ganon and I would have liked to see something like that as well but why do you belive that another character has to suffer for it? I like Ganondorf but I also like Palutena the way she is. And what makes you think that the time that was "used" for her time could have gone to Ganondorf? You realize that you can say that about virtually any undesired aspect of the game, like a newcomer or mode. You can even rephrase "Palutena's customs" with "Bowser/Yoshi's makeover". Pointing fingers randomly looking for scapegoats just to see where the blame falls is a terrible way to cope with the issue.
A Palutena with unique customs or not wouldn't have gotten in the way of a Ganon makeover, if the notion was present. You don't even want fairness, you just wanted the bias to be aligned with yours.

 

[PhantomShab]

That doesn't make sense. If the franchise is small and unlikely to get a game then that's more of a reason to use content from it rather than leave it to die, same goes for how they added fighters from another niche franchise like Fire Emblem, so that perhaps even one day it may attract interest. It behooves Nintendo to bring attention to the "lesser" series as well. DK or Metroid will always have another game around the corner so it's not like they need the spotlight that badly.

Kid Icarus going back to being on hiatus and getting all the content it got in Smash is like a roommate moving out but leaving all of his stuff.

I understand the notion of a more unique Ganon and I would have liked to see something like that as well but why do you belive that another character has to suffer for it? I like Ganondorf but I also like Palutena the way she is. And what makes you think that the time that was "used" for her time could have gone to Ganondorf? You realize that you can say that about virtually any undesired aspect of the game, like a newcomer or mode. You can even rephrase "Palutena's customs" with "Bowser/Yoshi's makeover". Pointing fingers randomly looking for scapegoats just to see where the blame falls is a terrible way to cope with the issue.

Fair point. Not so much that the time "could" have been used for Ganondorf, but rather "should" have been used for Ganondorf.

You don't even want fairness, you just wanted the bias to be aligned with yours.

So setting aside some time to make Ganondorf actually fight like freaking Ganondorf would be bias? What even?

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

Kid Icarus going back to being on hiatus and getting all the content it got in Smash is like a roommate moving out but leaving all of his stuff.

Then let's hope it doesn't go back to sleep then. It's still too early to say that it's gonna stay down for sure.

So setting aside some time to make Ganondorf actually fight like freaking Ganondorf would be bias? What even?

No, that wasn't my point.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

Typically, threads questioning whether a charscter deserved to be included are not permitted due to the problems they cause. This of course is dependent on the nature of the discussion at hand. Seeing as how it went bad pretty quickly, it was decided the best course of action was to close it up.