mikeHAZE
Smash Legend
it doesn't matter if they ****, since we're not talking about that, we're talking about winning tournaments consistently/often.
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Why do you play low tier?
- Thread starter mikeHAZE
- Start date
Undyingz
Smash Rookie
even though my main is sheik, ill still enter a competitive game with mewtwo or G&W to beat players like you who actually care about why people pick a low tier character.
mikeHAZE
Smash Legend
why would you pick that? wouldn't you just give me a free win?
might as well give me a bye.
.............................
But seriously, why would you even do that, especially for a reason like the one you gave.
(and please understand that i'm not saying low tier characters are a free win, because of course they are not *points to gimpy*)
lemonlau36
Smash Journeyman
OOOOHHHHH SNAP... >_>
Personally I don't think you'd beat anyone in a tourney with G&W or Mewtwo. At least anyone who plays higher tiers and is at the very least decent.
As for your comment Mike, next to none of the low tier chars ever come out on top at tournies. It's more of a fun-factor thing. You can only go so far in a tourney with low tier, unless you've developed some sort of amazing technique, which just hasn't happened yet.
Well I guess you could ask why you play competitively with ANY character, because most people here are never going to be as good as M2K, Ken, Isai, Azen, Chu, PC and such. I mean, even if you do main a high tier, you still pretty much gauarenteed to lose if you go to a big name tourney as long as one or two big names are there.
But as for low tier mains, we do it because we can. I want to main Kirby, I want to get good as Kirby, I want to play as Kirby, so I do. Its not like Im against high tiers, hell, I picked up Falco a few months ago, but Kirby was the character I chose as my main, so I still play him the most.
And what about you Mike? Are you going to forgo playing as Fox in brawl because of all his nerfs? He won't be the absolute best character anymore, so will you still use him?
But as for low tier mains, we do it because we can. I want to main Kirby, I want to get good as Kirby, I want to play as Kirby, so I do. Its not like Im against high tiers, hell, I picked up Falco a few months ago, but Kirby was the character I chose as my main, so I still play him the most.
And what about you Mike? Are you going to forgo playing as Fox in brawl because of all his nerfs? He won't be the absolute best character anymore, so will you still use him?
DarkDragoon
Smash Champion
The point of Competitive Smash isn't to wait on a tier list, and once its out, scramble and select the top 4 tier characters and play them obsessively, because then the casuals have won, and the game is automatically less fun.
People who want to play Smash competitively and have fun with it should just choose a character that best fits their play style. Is that character Marth? He happens to be high on the tier list, then great for you. Are you like myself, and think Mewtwo is a total BAMF? Great. Time to get to work, because you're going to be playing "Catch-Up" like mad.
Rarely do competitive Low Tier players do ONLY that character. Those such as Taj recognize that higher tiers are best match for higher tiers, or you can take Gimpy as the example and see that any Character can be the best, as long as you maximize its potential and utilize it.
That being said, Tiers aren't "Auto-Wins" in any case at all.
Just this afternoon, at my School's smash club, I used Mewtwo and effectively dissected a Y.Link, a Dr.Mario, and a Fox using Mewtwo, all at the same time.
It was a FFA, not a 3v1, otherwise I would've stood little chance.
Tier do exist, don't get me wrong.
But they're not the end-all of smash match-ups.
-DD
Edit: I hate you smashboards, you and your horrible lag >.<
mikeHAZE
Smash Legend
lol no, i picked fox because i like him, same with brawl.
at E FOR ALL, i was one of the only people who stuck with fox throughout the entire event.
(and he's really not that bad in brawl, people are just idiots and jump to conclusions)
at E FOR ALL, i was one of the only people who stuck with fox throughout the entire event.
(and he's really not that bad in brawl, people are just idiots and jump to conclusions)
i play bowser because i like bowser.
that's all.
also i'd like to point this out, anyone who is trying to "prove tiers dont exist" or try to prove their character is better or whatever else will never, ever, become a great player.
if you don't accept your characters blatantly obvious limitations, not just accept, but embrace, you will NEVER be able to overcome them.
there was a LONG period of time where i wanted people to think bowser was good, or i wanted to prove that he was at least better than everyone thought by a lot.
back then, i was bad at melee, i was bad at the game, i didn't understand my character or other characters.
as soon as i found myself thinking "wow, bowser is really really bad" and accepted that, i found myself devising a whole new gameplan.
i know what my characters weaknesses are, and most players know many of bowser's weaknesses, turn that fact into a strength. most players expect bowser to be very very slow to attack, and not really have much pressure, no ability to tech chase, no ability to punish, and is very easily punished.
now, the plan wasn't to take away these disabilites, because he definitely has some of them, but the point was to use them to my advantage.
how can you break a bad habbit without somebody telling you about it, or realizing that it is indeed a bad habbit? you have to accept the bad habbit before you can break it. it's the same thing with this sort of a situation...
before you accept your limitations you can never overcome them.
that's all.
also i'd like to point this out, anyone who is trying to "prove tiers dont exist" or try to prove their character is better or whatever else will never, ever, become a great player.
if you don't accept your characters blatantly obvious limitations, not just accept, but embrace, you will NEVER be able to overcome them.
there was a LONG period of time where i wanted people to think bowser was good, or i wanted to prove that he was at least better than everyone thought by a lot.
back then, i was bad at melee, i was bad at the game, i didn't understand my character or other characters.
as soon as i found myself thinking "wow, bowser is really really bad" and accepted that, i found myself devising a whole new gameplan.
i know what my characters weaknesses are, and most players know many of bowser's weaknesses, turn that fact into a strength. most players expect bowser to be very very slow to attack, and not really have much pressure, no ability to tech chase, no ability to punish, and is very easily punished.
now, the plan wasn't to take away these disabilites, because he definitely has some of them, but the point was to use them to my advantage.
how can you break a bad habbit without somebody telling you about it, or realizing that it is indeed a bad habbit? you have to accept the bad habbit before you can break it. it's the same thing with this sort of a situation...
before you accept your limitations you can never overcome them.
mikeHAZE
Smash Legend
^^best post ever?
See, there you go. We pick low tiers because we like the characters. Its that simple. And no, Fox really wasnt THAT bad, its just he's not the best anymore.
Edit:
yep, gimpy winsGimpyfish62 said:
mikeHAZE
Smash Legend
yeah but brawl tiers aren't even established, so that's a poor example. Perhaps when brawl is more established, and people know about the tiers, then one can use that.
But you shouldn't have to know tiers to pick your character. Like Gimpy once said, "Just play who you like" or "Play anyone but Ike" XD
mikeHAZE
Smash Legend
yes i know you SHOULDN'T but many people do.
DarkDragoon
Smash Champion
And they're the ones that suck?
You don't play high tier just because their high tier.
You play high tier because you're good with them, and need to take on another high tier you don't feel you can take on effectively with another character.
For instance, I suck with Falco/Fox. I'll NEVER touch them. I know their weaknesses, so I'll grab my Shiek or Marth, and have at them. If its a poor or inexpierenced Fox, then I'll grab my Mewtwo and fool around with them before finishing them off. *Mind Games!*
T_T I liked Gimpy's post...but it was a rehash of mine...kinda...
-DD
You don't play high tier just because their high tier.
You play high tier because you're good with them, and need to take on another high tier you don't feel you can take on effectively with another character.
For instance, I suck with Falco/Fox. I'll NEVER touch them. I know their weaknesses, so I'll grab my Shiek or Marth, and have at them. If its a poor or inexpierenced Fox, then I'll grab my Mewtwo and fool around with them before finishing them off. *Mind Games!*
T_T I liked Gimpy's post...but it was a rehash of mine...kinda...
-DD
Why to play low tiers?
Hmm.
- Considering that this game is a nintendo game, i dont see why it's odd to realize some people play lowtiers because said character is their favorite character.
- Just like in any fighting game community, somebody might have played with a deceptively good character (i.e. Luigi, Link, DK), for a long time just to find out "Oh, This character apparently 'blows' "
- Could always be the obvious "**** tier list" person, it's not like those dont exist.
- The fact that a ridiculously good low tier player often has the "mystery" factor of their character as opposed to a top tier player.
- To be a winning top tier player, you generally have to be a big step above the competition? Why? One of the reasons is you play a main stream character, everybody has a pretty good idea what you're going to do. Say you play a low tier? Sure, you're gunna have some hard (or "impossible") matchups, but you can be pretty sure that every single person at that tourney wont know what makes you bad vs their character(s).
- And, like the weird case of Jiggs vs Pikachu, your low tier might flat out "counter" a high(er) tiered character.
- Low tier mains for Low tier tournies. (that's why i play low tiers)
- Sandbag characters that you get good with.
and last, but not least
- Because sometimes, the character is just flat out fun to play, regardless of how good or bad they are.
Hmm.
- Considering that this game is a nintendo game, i dont see why it's odd to realize some people play lowtiers because said character is their favorite character.
- Just like in any fighting game community, somebody might have played with a deceptively good character (i.e. Luigi, Link, DK), for a long time just to find out "Oh, This character apparently 'blows' "
- Could always be the obvious "**** tier list" person, it's not like those dont exist.
- The fact that a ridiculously good low tier player often has the "mystery" factor of their character as opposed to a top tier player.
- To be a winning top tier player, you generally have to be a big step above the competition? Why? One of the reasons is you play a main stream character, everybody has a pretty good idea what you're going to do. Say you play a low tier? Sure, you're gunna have some hard (or "impossible") matchups, but you can be pretty sure that every single person at that tourney wont know what makes you bad vs their character(s).
- And, like the weird case of Jiggs vs Pikachu, your low tier might flat out "counter" a high(er) tiered character.
- Low tier mains for Low tier tournies. (that's why i play low tiers)
- Sandbag characters that you get good with.
and last, but not least
- Because sometimes, the character is just flat out fun to play, regardless of how good or bad they are.
mikeHAZE
Smash Legend
so you pick up sheik or marth because you can't beat them with m2 is what you're saying.
That's actually kind of sad if you think about it.
Really, it's a matter of what's cool for you.
In melee, my best characters or Doc and Kirby (and sometimes Ganondorf), and I'd always use Doc for when I didn't want to destroy people with Kirby. There was only one person who could consistently beat me. He used Sheik, but the reason he would always win was not because he used a "high-tier" character, but because he had mastered all the characters, would know what moves you would use, and could effectively counter them. But even he would be careful when I used Kirby. My aerial game was sick, I would use Kirby's moderate speed to confuse opponents (usually using feints and such), and I was very apt at interrupts. Sure I would lose occasionally, and many matches found me using half the time to get back to the stage, but I would also win. A lot. And, more importantly, I always had fun.
And then I got onto the internet and found out the people ranked Kirby as low tier and some though him the worst character in the game, saying that no-one could win with him. I almost died laughing.
And I still use Kirby. And I still win more times than I lose. And I still have fun.
(of course, it doesn't hurt that Fox players are so predictable)
Seriously though, It's attitudes like the one that created this thread that made me decide long ago to play casual. That tournement atmosphere is too much "play to win" for me. In my eyes, it's kind of restrictive, though truly, to each his own, what I see as something may be something else to someone else.
That said, from what I've seen, tier matter FAR LESS in Smash than they do in, say, Street Fighter and especially King of Fighters (Gill for Smash!!! That'll show you God Tier, Seraphic Wing right in Fox's face), though it's still the same thing. Of course, in my eyes, tiers don't really matter all that much anyway, not when you have skill.
mikeHAZE
Smash Legend
even if you have skill, your character can still limit you.
look at gimpy for example.
best bowser player ever.
but how often does he get top three in a big tournament? (don't take this offensively gimpss)
look at gimpy for example.
best bowser player ever.
but how often does he get top three in a big tournament? (don't take this offensively gimpss)
Endless Nightmares
Smash Master
lol, Fox and Sheik are two of my easiest matchups. Hell, I'd pay extra to face a Fox first round of a tournament. I love fighting Fox.
Anyway, my favorite character, G&W, just happens to be low tier. And he's also my best character. So why not use my best character in tournament? I'm not trying to win tournaments, my goal is just to place high. As long as I place in the upper half or upper third, I'm fine.
FIFTH PLACE FTW!
you and me both eh mike? XD
you and me both eh mike? XD
mikeHAZE
Smash Legend
i know, huh. we should both be 5th on the rankings.
DarkDragoon
Smash Champion
Exactly.
Although sometimes I feel my chances are better with Mewtwo, its better safe than sorry.
-DD
Although sometimes I feel my chances are better with Mewtwo, its better safe than sorry.
-DD
festizzio
Smash Champion
It's actually closer to even...Pikachu doesn't even come close at "countering" anybody. Not like how Sheik counters Pikachu anyway...but that's not the point of this topic so I'll say I use Pikachu because (mike you should already know this) he's awesome.
And there's just something about him...not really sure what, I just love the little guy.Edit: He's also hella fun to play.
Mac_77
Smash Cadet
I main Ness in Melee, and he's considered lower tier to tier noobs...
To me, tier means absolutely nothing, either you are good or you just flat out fail...
I know everything there is to know about countering Fox and Sheik with Ness, because I have been to tournaments and fought many Pro Fox and Sheik players and they do the same thing all the time...
These jokes preach to me about tiers and say how they'll always beat me with Fox or Sheik, heh nothing but a bunch of spammers lol, and they think it is funny to see that there is a serious Pro Ness player amongst their ranks, but I always have the last laugh...
Even though he was "nerfed" in Melee, I still played as Ness anyway... I only play as Ness because I like him and I am a fan of the Mother series...
That's why I play as a... "lower tier"... character...
To me, tier means absolutely nothing, either you are good or you just flat out fail...
I know everything there is to know about countering Fox and Sheik with Ness, because I have been to tournaments and fought many Pro Fox and Sheik players and they do the same thing all the time...
These jokes preach to me about tiers and say how they'll always beat me with Fox or Sheik, heh nothing but a bunch of spammers lol, and they think it is funny to see that there is a serious Pro Ness player amongst their ranks, but I always have the last laugh...
Even though he was "nerfed" in Melee, I still played as Ness anyway... I only play as Ness because I like him and I am a fan of the Mother series...
That's why I play as a... "lower tier"... character...
DarkDragoon
Smash Champion
>.> I'd calm down your sig a little bit, especially the "tell me who to play as" thing.
Thats flame bait right there.
-DD
Thats flame bait right there.
-DD
wow, the level of fail here, its just amazing. K, gimpy, i think its time to lock the thread, Mike got his answer(s) and we dont need this thread to burn in flames.
Mac_77
Smash Cadet
And I care, why?
Kips
Smash Ace
It's the grammar that gets to me. Anyways, I have a question. For those who play low tier characters, do you actually have a lot of FUN playing them? Like I have boatloads of fun playing Pichu or G&W because they're just so insane and can still play well, but do people want to make a point or just let it all hang out? 
Ghostype
Smash Champion
I play Roy a lot, but only because he's been one of my favorite characters for a while. And I'm a mean person sometimes, so generally when I play Roy and beat someone who's using a better character I say mean things. Just for the gits and shiggles.
Edit: I mean I'm really a **** sometimes. I've tried to make some people unplug their controllers.
Edit: I mean I'm really a **** sometimes. I've tried to make some people unplug their controllers.
Oddly enough, while it is fun to play as Kirby, I've played him so much that it has started to get a little repetitive, so if I want to play for fun I pick up a high tier characterIt's the grammar that gets to me. Anyways, I have a question. For those who play low tier characters, do you actually have a lot of FUN playing them? Like I have boatloads of fun playing Pichu or G&W because they're just so insane and can still play well, but do people want to make a point or just let it all hang out?
metaXzero
Smash Champion
Kirby. For me its just because his playstyle is most suitable. Honestly I can destroy with any character but with Kirby I feel like he is my second self. Also everyone around me uses Top Tiers (usually Fox) so the victory is all the more satisfying (and my words sound like another person.)
Kips
Smash Ace
0.o
I had to reread your post a few times before my brain would accept it, Reaper. But it's true- I play G&W so much that I have to play Marth a few times before I can go back to the blocky masterpiece that is Mr. Game and Watch.
I had to reread your post a few times before my brain would accept it, Reaper. But it's true- I play G&W so much that I have to play Marth a few times before I can go back to the blocky masterpiece that is Mr. Game and Watch.
Knyaguy
Smash Lord
Because Mewtwo is just that awesome. I mean he hold items without touching them. How awesome
mikeHAZE
Smash Legend
now another question:
Most of you said that you enjoy beating high tiers with your low tier, correct? it "feels good" as many mentioned.
So if you don't care about tiers (since you picked your character without caring about it), then why would it matter if you beat a fox or falco?
Most of you said that you enjoy beating high tiers with your low tier, correct? it "feels good" as many mentioned.
So if you don't care about tiers (since you picked your character without caring about it), then why would it matter if you beat a fox or falco?
DarkDragoon
Smash Champion
>.> Its fun when people are all pompous about it.
"LOL joo Uuz M2?! L0L Hez WURST Chartaticar evur!"
>.> Wiping their smug look off their face is always fun.
Other than that, its not so much that I beat a Fox or a Falco, but as much as it being a good player that I just beat, and people tell me my Mewtwo is great.
So yea, the feel good is in the compliments or the ownage.
One or the other.
-DD
"LOL joo Uuz M2?! L0L Hez WURST Chartaticar evur!"
>.> Wiping their smug look off their face is always fun.
Other than that, its not so much that I beat a Fox or a Falco, but as much as it being a good player that I just beat, and people tell me my Mewtwo is great.
So yea, the feel good is in the compliments or the ownage.
One or the other.
-DD
Endless Nightmares
Smash Master
To me, the only reason it feels good to beat Fox and Falco is because they're the easiest characters for G&W to combo, lol.
Also, since Fox and Falco are two of the most common opponents (and also just happen to be top tier), if I can beat a good space animal then that's a big step towards placing well in tournaments.
Also, since Fox and Falco are two of the most common opponents (and also just happen to be top tier), if I can beat a good space animal then that's a big step towards placing well in tournaments.
Collective of Bears
King of Hug Style
Because low tier doesn't mean bad. It means "hard to master." I can take out a Fox or Falco anyday as Mewtwo, DK, or Bowser. They are my 3 mains in Melee. Want to disagree? Talk to the smilie:
I feel good beating anyone with Kirby, because Tires DO exits and Kirby SHOULDN'T win. Also, most people just enjoy wining period.
Kips
Smash Ace
I enjoy the beeping sounds that G&W makes upon victory. Almost like he's cursing them out and mocking them. Heh heh.