Why do the majority of people here want a Melee 2.0?

[LavisFiend]

I want to flame you so badly right now. I'm not going to, though. I'm just going to say that you are wrong. 'Cause I play Falcon and he doesn't wavedash THAT much in high level play. And I will **** everyone you know.

Restraint is key to a brighter future.

 

[TheMagicalKuja]

vesperview is right in a way. Notice I didn't say COMPLETELY, I said IN A WAY.

While I'm almost certain a real pro could whip a n00b with or without it, I'd love to see some wavedash-happy scrub wiped off the floor by someone who didn't rely on it in Melee.

 

[Scar]

While I'm almost certain a real pro could whip a n00b with or without it, I'd love to see some wavedash-happy scrub wiped off the floor by someone who didn't rely on it in Melee.

YES! I agree. I actually strongly dislike players who think that all they need is wavedashing to win. When you don't know how to use it, IMO it's actually detrimental to gameplay.

Wavedashing is essential in high-level play, but a player who can wavedash is not necessarily better than a player who can't. High level players are necessarily better than players who can't wavedash.

 

[Deleted member]

how can something that made the game faster, increased characters, and increased the ability to dodge be a bad part of a game?

idk wat your talking about WD ADDED to melee, without so many adv techs like WD i probably wouldnt of taken a second look after i lost my first disk

wavedashing added a lot of adv techs to melee and that is why i dont want WD to be out of brawl because that takes out wat i think is the best part of the game

 

[shogun]

Morons.

If there is no wave dashing, you are not worse because EVERYONE HAS THE SAME DISADVANTAGE.

 

[highsmasher]

For a game to be successful in the short term it must offer something fresh to the scene.
For a game to be successful in the long term it MUST have a great amount of replay value. When something becomes trivial people will move on.

Melee brought in new characters, stages, and updated graphics and physics to differentiate itself from the 64 version. This provided the short term popularity boost it needed to get people to buy the game. In addition to this, melee kept what was good from super smash brothers 64. It kept the crazy items, it kept the dynamic levels, it kept the dynamic cast.

Thats all well and good, but the truth is, this forum would not be here if it werent for the long term success of melee. Chances are, brawl would not be nearly as well funded if it wasnt for the long term success of melee. We have nothing but the long term success of Melee to thank for the excitement that we are enjoying right now while awaiting the release of Brawl.

In my opinion, much of the long term success of melee can be attributed to three things.

1.) Melee is easy to pick up and start playing and enjoying.

Anyone can play as long as they have a reasonable ability to track a character moving on a television set. The general spontaneity (meaning anything could happen depending on what level you were playing on and with what settings) of the game made it so that even if a person was drasticly outskilled (think lavisfiend vs. scar) there was still something there that made it so people who would normally put down the controller after getting their salad tossed five stocks in a row will keep playing.

This kept new players entering the scene. A game that was immediately fun to play and also offered hope that they too could win a match someday. Heck, who knows, maybe even a tournament.

2.) Offers a challenge for everyone

The reason I LOVED to play smash was because it was a challenge. It challenged the limits of anyone who played it both mentally and physically (in terms of finger and hand quickness and dexterity).

Melee was a game you could spend time exploring and learning.
First you learn the general concept of the game.
Then you learn the moveset of a character you favor.
Then you learn all the items and stages.
Then, if you choose, you learn advanced techs.

There was just always something new to try. Bored with smash? Play as samus and whip out the super grapple and mess around w/ it. Or try out that cool waveshine combo you saw on youtube. Use captain falcons Dair to spike someone while you are both as far from the edge as possible and try to make it back.

This was what kept me playing smash for three years. It kept me buying copies of the game (it can be hard to keep track of sometimes) and new controllers every few months (sucks when beer gets in your b or x button). This means good business for nintendo.

3.) The more you play the better you get. This is excluding cases where you play the same people using the same moves and same characters and same rules etc.

If you played new people, tried different things, decided to learn new moves (including wavedashing, L cancles, short hops) you would get better. Different players obviously get better at different rates than others, but there was virtually no upper limit for most people.


As you can see, points 2 and 3 are fundamentally the same. They both place importance on the depth and replay value of the game.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


The above is my justification of why I worry about things like wavedashing and L cancling not being present in Brawl. I want a game I can enjoy for a long time and put on a pedestal as I have with Melee.

My problem with your thread, Lavisfiend, and the 12 year old fanbois that applaud your statements is that you're argument is based upon making others look bad. Most of the time you are insulting the opposing side's opinion and attacking the idea of learning something new that makes someone better at smash.

Some people think wavedashing is exploitation of a glitch. In a way it is. The designers did not expect the player base to use it the way they did. This does not mean we should not use it as best as we can. I bet the first person that made popcorn did not mean for the corn to be cooked so that it popped, but that doesn't mean we shouldnt eat popcorn (rather abstract but it makes sense if you think about it).

Some people compare wavedashing with an athlete using steroids, and I'll admit, comparing wavedashing in smash to steroids in sports may seem like an accurate comparison if you haven't learned to wavedash proficiently. The thing is, anyone can wavedash in one day. Just go to youtube and search for a tutorial. But to actually USE wavedash in a match in a way that gives you a competitive edge takes weeks if not months of practice and experimentation. So its really not an unfair "i-win button". Its not an exploit that allows for cheap wins because it takes a great deal of practice and skill to use. Wavedashing is a tool that, if practiced enough, allows players to expand the dynamics of the game.



So to answer the question you posed as this threads topic (although i have doubts as to wether or not you really wanted an answer)

I want a game that is similar to melee because it was such a great game. It had great long term depth entirely due to things like wavedashing, SHFFLng aerials, waveshines, JC grabs, bomb jumping, missle cancles, and ledgetechs.

Why am I worried that wavedashing isn't in brawl and that the overall speed is reported to be slower than melee? Because I'm really good at video games and get bored quickly with something that doesnt challenge me. Im not trying to be arrogant its just the truth. I'm worried that after a year or so there will be no point to play brawl because i've done everything and mastered everything already. This may seem ridiculous but the more they slow the game down and remove advanced techs the more plausible it becomes.


Some questions for you:

Why would you want to take something out of the game that doesn't affect you if you don't choose to use it. No casual player is forced to learn advanced techs, nor are they forced to play against those who have chosen to learn these advanced techs. Why remove something that after close examination does nothing but good for the game. If you were designing Brawl would you keep wavedashing in? Why or why not? Please answer without flaming.

Sorry for the long post, i tried to make it as clear and organized as possible.

p.s. if you dont understand the nuances of the game please do not insist that pros are only pro's because they exploit a glitch. They are pros because they think more quickly than you. If you are beating them they will figure out why and stop you using whatever moves are necessary. They will also predict how you will respond to their counter and counter your response.

 

[NES n00b]

I like highsmasher.*thumbs up* This was supposed to be dead, though. lol

 

[highsmasher]

now its redead

are redead in brawl?

 

[Xtremee]

This put a smile on my face. Couldnt have said it better myself. I want brawl not melee 2.

YES that's what all we want right?

we don't need melee 2

 

[MetaKnight0]

I want Brawl to be Melee version 1.3.

Increase HRC length.
Make Final Destination more flat.

All nubs who want new Brawl die -.-

 

[NES n00b]

I want Brawl to be Melee version 1.3.

Increase HRC length.
Make Final Destination more flat.

All nubs who want new Brawl die -.-

This is why I don't take you guys seriously anymore.

 

[Runawayfire]

I want Brawl to be Melee version 1.3.

Increase HRC length.
Make Final Destination more flat.

All nubs who want new Brawl die -.-

 

[susu_atari]

highsmasher, you talk about getting bored when you've learned everything in a game, but considering you've learned everything in Melee already, the return of those things isn't going to help the longevity of Brawl for you, is it?

There are VERY few games that cannot be exploited. I'm sure there will be something in Brawl that will have slipped under the radar. The way I see it, the changes made to Brawl have given more scope for DIFFERENT advanced techs.

 

[Vincent Vega]

Melee is one of the greatest games ever, I don't see what would be so terrible about a sequel. It'll be fun to play an entirely new game though as well. Why does everything have to be so hostile? IMO, SSBM2 or SSBB would both be great. ^_^

 

[PITforREV]

I tihnk that brawl hsould have mor emelee in it than it does ssb64.....but i htink it has more 64, and I feel like thats a bad thing...they can make a new game without regressing.

 

[Ashes13]

Some people think wavedashing is exploitation of a glitch. In a way it is. The designers did not expect the player base to use it the way they did. This does not mean we should not use it as best as we can. I bet the first person that made popcorn did not mean for the corn to be cooked so that it popped, but that doesn't mean we shouldnt eat popcorn (rather abstract but it makes sense if you think about it).

Some people compare wavedashing with an athlete using steroids, and I'll admit, comparing wavedashing in smash to steroids in sports may seem like an accurate comparison if you haven't learned to wavedash proficiently. The thing is, anyone can wavedash in one day. Just go to youtube and search for a tutorial. But to actually USE wavedash in a match in a way that gives you a competitive edge takes weeks if not months of practice and experimentation. So its really not an unfair "i-win button". Its not an exploit that allows for cheap wins because it takes a great deal of practice and skill to use. Wavedashing is a tool that, if practiced enough, allows players to expand the dynamics of the game.



So to answer the question you posed as this threads topic (although i have doubts as to wether or not you really wanted an answer)

I want a game that is similar to melee because it was such a great game. It had great long term depth entirely due to things like wavedashing, SHFFLng aerials, waveshines, JC grabs, bomb jumping, missle cancles, and ledgetechs.

Why am I worried that wavedashing isn't in brawl and that the overall speed is reported to be slower than melee? Because I'm really good at video games and get bored quickly with something that doesnt challenge me. Im not trying to be arrogant its just the truth. I'm worried that after a year or so there will be no point to play brawl because i've done everything and mastered everything already. This may seem ridiculous but the more they slow the game down and remove advanced techs the more plausible it becomes.


Some questions for you:

Why would you want to take something out of the game that doesn't affect you if you don't choose to use it. No casual player is forced to learn advanced techs, nor are they forced to play against those who have chosen to learn these advanced techs. Why remove something that after close examination does nothing but good for the game. If you were designing Brawl would you keep wavedashing in? Why or why not? Please answer without flaming.

Sorry for the long post, i tried to make it as clear and organized as possible.

p.s. if you dont understand the nuances of the game please do not insist that pros are only pro's because they exploit a glitch. They are pros because they think more quickly than you. If you are beating them they will figure out why and stop you using whatever moves are necessary. They will also predict how you will respond to their counter and counter your response.

However, when you look at it from a developer's viewpoint, especially one bent on creating a "perfect" game for its fans, then it is only logical to remove Wavedashing. Wavedashing is, in fact, a glitch, an exploitation of a good, but not perfect physics system. Though I will miss being able to wavedash, it is the right move to make. If I were designing Brawl, I would work to make an even better physics system for the NEW game. As it has been stated previously, Brawl shouldn't be Melee with added characters. It should be individual. It should be fresh.

As for this whole "boo-hoo my ATs are gone, that's the only reason I played Melee" mentality and sentiment that I see around the board (Not necessarily directed at anyone in particular), I will call any bluff and say you will still buy Brawl, you will still play it, and you will probably find that it doesn't need the techniques of Melee.

As for your postscript, your point holds ground until presented with a hypothetical situation: If Player A was a "pro" and Player B was a great "casual" player who knew little or no ATs, especially Wavedashing, and they had a match, what if Player A's only way to keep Player B from beating him was to use Wavedashing. In that sense, he is not better due to his "quick thinking" or "prediction capabilities". That is essentially losing to an exploitation of a glitch. There's really no way around it. Keep in mind it is hypothetical, and I really don't care, but it is a possibility.

 

[Penguyen]

Melee to me was the greatest game ever conceived, but i'm sure i dont want to play melee again with more characters and features (alot more XD). I say hurrah for change and HOORAY for Brawl!!

 

[maxieman]

now IM gonna start a thread on why people whine that people whine that advanced techs may be gone

 

[Speedsk8er]

Why do you people use Melee 2.0 as some kind of ****ing insult? Melee was/is a **** near perfect game. What the hell is wrong with wanting an improved version of it?


Jeez, this is stupid. Don't get me wrong, I've gotten over the fact that Brawl isn't Melee long ago. But you guys make it seem like an improved version of Melee would be a bad thing.

Overall, Brawl is not Melee 2.0 but Melee 2.0 would NOT be a bad game. This war you guys have is dumb.

 

[PaperDream]

I don't care particularly for Advanced Tactics, but I think everyone wants Brawl to not stray too far from Melee.

People are expecting a better version of melee, changed enough to make it fresh, while still having the same roots. Just the first part is a difficult enough task of it's own, Melee is something that's hard to beat. It's a difficult task so I understand that people would worry.

If people just care about the Advanced Tactics though, I think they should chill. As stated earlier, people will still play brawl regardless.

 

[Livvers]

highsmasher, you talk about getting bored when you've learned everything in a game, but considering you've learned everything in Melee already, the return of those things isn't going to help the longevity of Brawl for you, is it?

There are VERY few games that cannot be exploited. I'm sure there will be something in Brawl that will have slipped under the radar. The way I see it, the changes made to Brawl have given more scope for DIFFERENT advanced techs.

I agree with this. I'm excited for Brawl because of all the new techniques that people will discover. It'll be fun learning these new techniques and perfecting them, instead of just adapting old ones to Brawl.

I definitely see where people are coming from, though, about taking things like WDing out. WDing added so much to Melee. But, I don't think the lack of some advanced techs are going to ruin Brawl like so many people are claiming. There WILL BE new advanced techs.

 

[Scar]

highsmasher, you talk about getting bored when you've learned everything in a game, but considering you've learned everything in Melee already, the return of those things isn't going to help the longevity of Brawl for you, is it?

It's nearly impossible to have learned everything there is to learn about Melee. And even if you know everything, consistent application is another story altogether.

 

[Robane]

Replying in a truely legendary thread.

The guy had a point though.

 

[highsmasher]

highsmasher, you talk about getting bored when you've learned everything in a game, but considering you've learned everything in Melee already, the return of those things isn't going to help the longevity of Brawl for you, is it?

There are VERY few games that cannot be exploited. I'm sure there will be something in Brawl that will have slipped under the radar. The way I see it, the changes made to Brawl have given more scope for DIFFERENT advanced techs.

Well I've learned most things in melee but I've far from perfected their use. I am by no means a pro player. When I go to tournaments I get toasted. One of my points was that I don't use advanced techs so I can win. I used advanced techs because I enjoy trying something new and incorporating difficult moves into play just to see if I can. One can not really understand the depth and breadth of the mindgames available to you in melee until you can make use of the advanced techs that are available.

However, when you look at it from a developer's viewpoint, especially one bent on creating a "perfect" game for its fans, then it is only logical to remove Wavedashing. Wavedashing is, in fact, a glitch, an exploitation of a good, but not perfect physics system. Though I will miss being able to wavedash, it is the right move to make.

It is logical to remove a glitch when it causes a negative impact to gameplay. Is it logical to throw away a glitch when it becomes something that positively affects gameplay? I will not deny wavedashing is exploitation of a glitch, but sometimes glitches become great discoveries. Think about how the microwave was invented (for those of you who don't know http://www.gallawa.com/microtech/history.html). As you can see we have the microwave today only because of a glitch in an experiment. When something unexpected occurs, developers label it a glitch, scientists will label it a discovery and take full advantage of this discovery.

Wavedashing may have been an unexpected exploitation of the physics system, but that in itself does not justify its removal. Most great discoveries were unexpected. When an apple fell on Newton's head he didnt get pissed and cut down all the apple trees because of a glitch in the universe's physics system. He explored this glitch and determined some of the characteristics of gravity. Allowing further great discoveries (wavedashing allowed a lot of unique things to occur in the game).

As for your postscript, your point holds ground until presented with a hypothetical situation: If Player A was a "pro" and Player B was a great "casual" player who knew little or no ATs, especially Wavedashing, and they had a match, what if Player A's only way to keep Player B from beating him was to use Wavedashing. In that sense, he is not better due to his "quick thinking" or "prediction capabilities". That is essentially losing to an exploitation of a glitch. There's really no way around it. Keep in mind it is hypothetical, and I really don't care, but it is a possibility.

Why do people use wavedashing? Because it allows them to maneuver and react more quickly than their opponent. For this to help someone win a match you still have to be able outthink your opponent.

For example. I most commonly face a player that plays as jiggly puff. This player knows how to wavedash but never bothered to integrate into his play because he made far more effective use of the wall of pain tactic. I learned to wavedash and would often lose to this jiggly puff player as fox simply because he would predict my movements and I was so focused on trying to wavedash into upsmashes or grabs, or shffl dairs into a waveshine usmash. I was so focused on trying these moves I wasn't realizing that he KNEW what I was going to attack with every time. By the time I realized he was outplaying me with his wall of pain + shield grab mindgames I had become good enough at wavedashing that I could focus on his movements rather than mine, allowing me to begin to predict his moves. Once I did this I realized he was really just camping on stage while slowly closing the gab between us with his wall of pain. So my new strategy was to run around shfl ing some lasers. I tied the shfld lasers in with some wavelands to upsmashes and this really helped turn the tides. (I also learned that f'tilts can disrupt jpuffs wall of pain if timed right).

But my point is it wasnt wavedashing that allowed me to beat my opponent, although it did help. It really never is wavedashing that wins a match. Its how you react to what your opponent does.


As for my expectations for brawl: I will absolutely buy the game. I will enjoy it for a while at least. I'm willing to bet that things will be discovered that will make the game more fun, and I'm excited to hear what those things are. At the same time I feel like if they don't replace wavedashing with something else that is difficult to learn and provides more depth to the game then it will quickly become relegated to the realm of party game. Competitive people won't competitively play a game that limits their abilities.

I definately can't wait for brawl to be released even though wavedashing isn't in it, but it is sort of sad to see it go and slightly worrying at the same time. No one wants a dumbed down melee.

 

[Speedsk8er]

As for your postscript, your point holds ground until presented with a hypothetical situation: If Player A was a "pro" and Player B was a great "casual" player who knew little or no ATs, especially Wavedashing, and they had a match, what if Player A's only way to keep Player B from beating him was to use Wavedashing. In that sense, he is not better due to his "quick thinking" or "prediction capabilities". That is essentially losing to an exploitation of a glitch. There's really no way around it. Keep in mind it is hypothetical, and I really don't care, but it is a possibility.

He's still a better player because his game is more expansive than Player B's. If Player A has the intelligence to use the AT correctly, player A is better. Even if wave-dashing was a glitch, it's not a glitch that players can throw around willy-nilly and BAM win-button. Player A took the time to learn it and how to properly implement it into his/her game, therefore they are a better player because they have more knowledge and have gotten to the point that they can implement it properly.

 

[highsmasher]

speedsk8er you reiterated my point very well. thank you.

 

[Super_alex2]

I couldnt agree with you more. I think the Mind Tricks and whatnot made melee more of a competition than a game, and it was unfair for those less experienced characters

 

[highsmasher]

I couldnt agree with you more. I think the Mind Tricks and whatnot made melee more of a competition than a game, and it was unfair for those less experienced characters

For the most part the players that play the game determine wether SSB is more of a competition or a game. If you just feel like playing a game there was the 4 player ffa w/ items on poke floats. If you felt like competing at a tournament there were rulesets that allowed for fair competition. These options made the game GOOD.

But seriously alex, who wants to play a game where less experienced players are on level grounds with more experienced players. What is the point in that?

 

[Sol]

Brawl will be better because melee is so broken and has so many broken aspects about it.I cant wait for this game to be done it was good in the begining but now the game is just counterpicks and gimps lets hope brawl is completley different

 

[God Link]

I love this game with a passion, theres no number to express it, but my concernes are about its speed. It seems so much slower and harder to move, kind of like SSB64. Also when you jump it seems as it takes forever to come back down making it harder to combo in general, sure aerial combo's would be easier but yea you put it perfect.

This is BRAWL, not MELEE 2.0.

If anything I am not whining or complaining about it, but I think the thing that will effect very fast and competitive play is its speed, and how much more lag there is. When you go back to playing Melee right after you just played SSBB64, you feel like you are playing in practice mode on its slowest setting. Less speed is less freedom.

Anyway to solve for those who like to play either fast or slow, floaty or heavy, isn't there already a customizable match option, it may be simple as in combining all the special melee's together instead of giving you a complete option to change it to you and your friends personal ways.

For example, you should be able to play speed by points, kinda of like the full customizable damage ratio. But instead of percentage, it should be a number. You never know Masahiro Sakurai will do, he is full of ideas and options are his specialties.

But yea, this is Brawl, it is in good hands, and will definitly be better than its counterpart. (Not sure on this as in gameplay) but you know what I mean. Lets just wait until this game comes out and see whats its like. Some of you guys are looking too deep into this game.

We may even get new advanced techniques. This game seems generaly more balanced the way GimpyFish put it. A lot was nerfed and nothing was really buffed, I heard more negative things than postitive, but hey, thats only a demo. Everyone has their own playstyle.

 

[Ashes13]

He's still a better player because his game is more expansive than Player B's. If Player A has the intelligence to use the AT correctly, player A is better. Even if wave-dashing was a glitch, it's not a glitch that players can throw around willy-nilly and BAM win-button. Player A took the time to learn it and how to properly implement it into his/her game, therefore they are a better player because they have more knowledge and have gotten to the point that they can implement it properly.

Believe me, I understand fully what both of you are saying, and as I previously stated, I don't care about the whole issue. I'm merely playing the Devil's advocate here. One could easily look at a glitch as something that shouldn't be in the game, thus using it would be unfair or cheating. Therefore, according to this way of looking at it, Player A would be a cheater. Therefore, it would be fair to say Player A took the time to learn how to cheat, whereas Player B rejected/never heard of it.

Now, I don't believe in that, but it is a viewpoint. When it comes down to it, wavedashing is a glitch, and I can perfectly understand the developer's removing it, even though it didn't negatively affect gameplay, though that depends on how you look at it. Because, unfortunately for those who do not wish to use wavedashing, the general sentiment surrounding it is a "learn it or get over it" mentality and that is just as close-minded as those not wanting to learn it.

Now I will say that I would be happy with wavedashing in, or even with it out. It doesn't matter to me. A game like Smash Bros. will ALWAYS be competitive. Always.

Also, highsmasher, though I liked your microwave comparison, the Newton comparison was a little reaching, considering the apple actually hitting Newton's head is a fabled myth at best, whereas most accounts would simply point to him observing the apple fall, maybe not even from under the tree. But refreshing thoughts nonetheless.

 

[PauloS]

Don't complain about it, though. It is a new game and not Melee.

In all seriousness, speed and directional airdodging are my main concerns and I really do not complain. I mostly respond to threads and posts like these to show why we are concerend. Taking away depth is a bad thing. Sure, there could be more and Brawl and sure, it could be fine for all we know. All we know right now though, is that stuff that had depth like wavedashing, DJCs, and directional airdodges are gone while momentum based airdodging, footstool, gliding, and crawling.

We all do not know how it is going to turn out. I would suggest to wait, but why not debate while we wait?

Edit: I would buy a Melee two with added stuff, competative scene focused with techs and balance, with internet connections and stuff. I would also buy Brawl.

Completely agreed..

And people take it too far, saying that Brawl isnt Melee.. Dude, they are BOTH Super Smash Brothers games! And taking away advanced techniques, like NesNoob said, removes depth from the game..
Do you really think people would REALLY use Falco's lasers if they didn't Lag Cancel on landing?
Do you really believe that Samus' Missile would be even used if it didn't have a safer way of shooting them?
Do you think that Fox's Shine would have ANY use if you couldn't jump-cancel it? Reflecting stuff and being stuck in your reflector waiting for a Smash is 100 times worse than shielding it, so where's the balance?

Now for the last question:
Do you think that these advanced techniques are what makes characters broken?????????????
I'll answer for you:
HELL NO! Take a look at Sheik.. Why is she so great in the competitive scene? Because MOST of her moves have VERY LITTLE lag time naturally, very good priority, decent range.. And overall she's a very fast character, BOTH vertically AND horizontally.. THESE are what make an imbalanced character.. Take a look at Marth, ridiculous range, priority AND power (it's **** easy to tipper most of your attacks with decent spacing..).. Does Marth NEED L-Cancel to own on most lvls of play? Does Sheik NEED Wavedash to own on most lvls of play? Hardly..

Advanced techniques serves to balance out the **** balance preset by the programmers.. It has been proven over and over again, on MOST games, that programmers know NOTHING about balance ¬¬

I will buy and play Brawl... I do know it is very different from Melee... But as far as I know, Brawl is not Melee 2.0, Brawl is 64 3.0, and Melee is 64 2.0.. I see no reason to take away depth from a game, as it ends up balancing characters more than anything (because it gives naturally weak characters a use for their useless attacks..)

 

[NES n00b]

stuff

That viewpoint might be common, but it isn't even close to right. Last time I checked, I didn't cheat a program by giving input that is out of bounds of the parameters of the program. When you get right down to it, smash bros is a program to run off your system. In the game, you can do whatever you want as long as the game itself can do it. This program is not like a sport or a board game where there is a guideline of rules to follow (the manual is not a ruleset booklet <_<). It just follows the input you tell it along with the regular functions it does. To be cheating, there has to be rules which the game does not have. Therefore, people have to make up the rules on what is allowed and stuff. So really, what is cheating changes from house to house, tourney to tourney, and blah blah.

Point: People make the rules, not the game. So pretty much you are only cheating if the smash fest or tourney rules say you can't do that. A smashfest with rules is a little corny, though. >_>

 

[Hellbeing]

im scared!!

 

[h1roshi]

bcuz the majority of the people love melee 1.0...peace

-Ggah

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

bcuz the majority of the people love melee 1.0...peace

-Ggah

Exactly.

Dont know about you guys, but Id rather melee 2.0 over brawl.

Think about it

a game we already know to be amazing, wavedashing and L cancelling and the like, all the techniques that were removed from brawl for little to no reason.

PLUS 50 characters
PLUS stage editor
PLUS new stages
PLUS tons of other features

with the EXACT SAME gameplay and 26 characters from melee. To me this would be the greatest game that could ever come out.

Or just a wifi capable version of melee for the wii. Either or.


Brawl isnt bad though, its pretty similar to melee in a lot of ways but we get entirely new gameplay and the chance to create some new advanced techs.

But Im not a big fan of change when something works for me, really. I know Melee is by FAR my favorite game in the world, so an expansion pack for melee to me would be better than even a new smash game like brawl.

Just raising a point, I don't wanna bash anyone. Though this will probably get me flamed, I don't much care it's an opinion.

 

[masterbraz]

because nintendo is known to slightly update sequels (mario tennis,pokemon)

Humans dont generally like change.
Laziness
Fear- Will it be as good as melee?!
Dont want to go from pros to noobs