Why are people considered bad for maining Little Mac?

[VileFC3S]

It's pretty much in almost every fighting game. There's always at least one character in the whole roster that everybody will cry and ***** about. His learning curve is very easy to get used to and so the beginners will assume that it takes no skill to use him. In reality, he does have a limit to which a player may stop using him because of his lack of overall capability.

 

[Shiliski]

I've played him along with Megaman and Falcon as my main throughout SSB4 since I loved the original Punch-Out so much. I was playing wireless with my friends the other day and the all called me a nub and stated that Mac was 'for baddies only.' The general feeling around this board seems to be the same too, with contempt to anyone who touches the character. Why is this? He's a solid ABC-tier close combat fighter, with great strengths and weaknesses to balance him. I think he's just gotten a bad rap over people that were trying to learn the class online and accidentally suicided with their Side B.

(Mods if this is in the wrong spot please just move it)

There are like 11-12 characters that are currently considered OP. Doing the math, that means over 20% of the cast is apparently OP. At that point you have to just sit back and realize how little these claims really mean.

If someone calls you a baddie for playing Little Mac, they are a scrub. It's as simple as that. There is no situation or special circumstance that makes them not a scrub for this.

People get mad because his smashes have Super Armor and he's hard to deal with if you don't know how. I've seen tons of bad Little Macs, but I've also seen one or two really good ones. Mac flooded the FG mode the first week or so, but that tapered off a bit once people apparently either stopped playing or decided to switch.

He's a new character and he has some strengths that people don't know how to deal with yet. That's all.

 

[Hayzie]

Even if you know how to deal with Little Mac, he's still overpowered. A simple 1-2 jab has too much power, knocks you back and gives him more room to make another move, because he's so fast. A debate can go on if this was on any stage, but if it's an Omega stage then by far he's cheap. If you take two people with the same skill level and have them just fight on the platform, Little Mac will probably come out on top most of the time. Sure the whole strengths/weaknesses argument with the balance of him being absolutely terrible in the air, but 95% of your fight requires you to hopefully be on your two feet. Who knows footwork? Boxers.

I love Little Mac, Punchout, and his addition to the roster because he's well deserving of it... but I'd be okay with it if they made him less powerful with a slightly better recovery.

It's not just stats. Why when I wreck someone, sometimes people just choose Little Mac even when they clearly haven't mastered him? It's more annoying than it is on paper. I'll fight him, but it's just "oh this scrub time again". I'm like where's the shampoo and brush, let's just get this over with.

 

[Arcadenik]

Ummm... so I guess Little Mac is the Meta Knight of SSB4?

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Ummm... so I guess Little Mac is the Meta Knight of SSB4?

Only on Final Destination or any Omega Form stage. Little Mac is terrible in the air, so forcing him to go airborne could work to your advantage if you're fighting on stages with platforms.

 

[KingTeo]

Ummm... so I guess Little Mac is the Meta Knight of SSB4?

Close but no cigar. Metaknight was known to be OP to the point of being a broken character. Little Mac is just a character with all the right tools to be the most easily accessible character in the game. His strengths and weaknesses dominate low-skill gameplay because they're so easy to use and the other person isn't good or smart enough to take advantage of his weaknesses.

And because of that, he attracts ALL of the worst players who pick him expecting to win, and then they end up being ******** and dragging Little Mac's name through the dirt. It's really a shame but in a way it's perfect.

In the Punch Out games no one had any faith in Little Mac, and no one believed he could win a single match. He was labeled as a wimp and a loser before he even had a chance to prove himself. But despite the harship he fought and through his hardwork he became champ and forced everyone to recognize how good he really was. Just like how his reputation has been torn to shreds by the countless Crap Mac players putting on a shameful display, it's up to his true fans to keep on winning and representing to prove that not everyone who plays him is bad.*

*paraphrasing

448

 

[⑨ball]

Spoiler

Close but no cigar. Metaknight was known to be OP to the point of being a broken character.

Only he wasn't. MK was highly debated from the moment of his top tier placement. Had several debatable evens(which at worst were 6/4s), including a character that could 0-death from a grab, and a character with an infinite on flat stages. Suffered from grab releases, died relatively early, and host of other weaknesses that were exploitable by players of equal skill. There was even a time when some players attempted to play MK and dominate to demonstrate how broken he was, only to get bopped and get similar tourney placements.

The biggest contributors to the "MK is broken/OP" schill were 1. A new generation of players that were unaccustomed to competitive play(basically casuals trying to transfer over) and the over centralization blamed on MK due to his evens being higher skill caps(This is why Melee Fox and 64 Pikachu ******** never reaches a boil).

Little Mac is just a character with all the right tools to be the most easily accessible character in the game. His strengths and weaknesses dominate low-skill gameplay because they're so easy to use and the other person isn't good or smart enough to take advantage of his weaknesses.

And because of that, he attracts ALL of the worst players who pick him expecting to win, and then they end up being ******** and dragging Little Mac's name through the dirt. It's really a shame but in a way it's perfect.

You can literally replace "Little Mac" with any top tier character's name in any game and have that be accurate.

People are consider bad for maining Little Mac for the same reasons and by the same type of people that hated Pikachu, Fox, and MK. Because they can't win consistently enough, when it feels like Mac players don't put in half the effort. Only in Mac's case, the main complainers will be predominantly online players because online is playable now widening the casual pool. As per usual in actual tournaments and in matches of equal skill, he'll look better, be much worse in the hands of pros and still find losses against people that play better.

tl;dr: MK's wasn't broken. Neither is Mac. People whine because he's good. Keep doing your thing and make Mac the champ.

 

[Lukingordex]

The only thing I hate about Little Mac is his KO Punch. This move is stupid, if you manage to outplay the player in the first stock, for example, with him at 100% and you at like 20%, now you have to camp like a ****** or else you're going to get KO punched, which is a move that kills at like 25%, ignores shield and has a very good hitbox. You know what kind of move have this type of brokeness? A Final Smash.

It's the most stupid comeback fator I ever saw in a fighting game.

 

[ThegreatVaporeon1]

I don't think the people who play him are bad; I just find that he's just overall annoying to fight against given his incredibly fast ground game, super armor, and strong smashes. His jabs doing all that damage is also irritating considering you can't really escape it and he can get a followup. His extremely fast and almost unpunishable rolls also get aggravating to deal with, and combined with his dash speed, he gives slower characters a lot of trouble. If he has a ko punch ready and youre at kill percent, he can hit you with his fast and powerful smash attack (fsmash usually) and then do a 1-2 jab to get you at a high enough percent and then ko punch you to finish the match. So avoiding that punch is extremely annoying on your last stock because you have to play an extremely campy game and look for an opening.

I don't hate the player; and I don't really hate the character. He's definitely a tough matchup, but I wouldn't go as far as saying he's "OP." He's also pretty simple to pick up, but most characters in this game are, so that's not really a huge deal.

 

[KingTeo]

The only thing I hate about Little Mac is his KO Punch. This move is stupid, if you manage to outplay the player in the first stock, for example, with him at 100% and you at like 20%, now you have to camp like a ****** or else you're going to get KO punched, which is a move that kills at like 25%, ignores shield and has a very good hitbox. You know what kind of move have this type of brokeness? A Final Smash.

It's the most stupid comeback fator I ever saw in a fighting game.

But his KO punch has pretty short range, kills at 40%, has enormous cooldown, and disappears after like 8 seconds. Most people don't even have a chance to use it before it disappears.

446

 

[Lukingordex]

Are you sure it's only 8 seconds?

When I'm fighting against a Lil Mac it looks like it only disapears if I manage to give enough damage to him.

Edit:
In training mode I charged the KO punch and it did NOT disappear, unless it's different in a real match, you're mistaken.

 

[Doruge]

KO Punch only disappears if you get hit hard enough to go into tumble

 

[GroundZero996]

But his KO punch has pretty short range, kills at 40%, has enormous cooldown, and disappears after like 8 seconds. Most people don't even have a chance to use it before it disappears.

446

It doesn't disappear on a timer, it's tied to how much damage he takes.

KO Punch only disappears if you get hit hard enough to go into tumble

Or that. Learn something new every day. This is why Gyro is a great tool for KO Punch diffusing.

 

[NairWizard]

Mac's not OP or a bad character or anything, but he is kind of annoying to fight because you have to play really lame and boring vs. him. The best way to win against Mac is to camp him. Shield and react to his attacks a lot, then get him in the air or off stage and not let him make it back.

It would be very cool if you could fight Mac like you would play a boxing match--duke it out, exchanging blows and clanking--that would be the true Punch-Out spirit. But instead all of his attacks are frame 1-3 and his smashes have super armor on them. So any attack you throw out against a Little Mac is just going to get beaten, and you have no choice but to play patient and safe, zoning and waiting for a grab opportunity or a d-tilt to launch.

It leads to really boring gameplay for the guy fighting the Mac, that's the only reason I think that people don't like to fight him.

 

[KingTeo]

Well color me corrected. 442

 

[666blaziken]

I feel like little mac is good or bad depending on the character he is going against. If he goes against ness, he will be destroyed.

 

[Mazdamaxsti]

Little Mac is OP. After dodging/any regular attacks he can dodge again without lag. Meaning if you dodge, he dodges behind and hits again, in the time you're dodge finished. He can do 20+ damage with some of his attacks, and he can edge guard from the ground better than any character. When I am facing a good L Mac, I suicide. Legit, the L Mac population is still going down, but they're getting better.

 

[A wild Spycrab appeared!]

Little Mac is OP. After dodging/any regular attacks he can dodge again without lag. Meaning if you dodge, he dodges behind and hits again, in the time you're dodge finished. He can do 20+ damage with some of his attacks, and he can edge guard from the ground better than any character. When I am facing a good L Mac, I suicide. Legit, the L Mac population is still going down, but they're getting better.

Yes, he can do incredible damage. However, he's more of a game swinger than an overpowered character. One punished attack followed by a gimp can mean the end of him, and he has limited ways of approaching, so getting that damage is difficult when he's matched up against somebody who uses proper zoning and distancing. On the other side, if he gets that damage in he can kill very early, so it's really everything or nothing. It's also very true that his rolls and spotdodges are very fast, but that does not mean he is unpunishable, it just contributes to his great ground game.

If you suicide against Little Mac, it's no wonder you might consider him OP, as you have no chance to learn how to counter him. Since you like playing Sheik, punish whenever you can, as that's what Sheik is good at, and get Mac off stage quickly to gimp him, which is also a thing Sheik shines at.

 

[Greda]

I know how to counter Little Mac quite well, but I hate playing against him. Instead of this game being a form of entertainment, it becomes a tedious chore when I play against a Little Mac. Wasn't this game directed for casual players? So why is someone as powerful as Little Mac in it? I honestly think he makes Meta Knight and Ice Climbers in Brawl combined look weak, and I had never thought that something like that could ever happen again. You can't mess up that badly. I feel like you don't need to put effort into him to win at all. I have personally never lost playing as him. Nowadays when I see a Little Mac, I just exit. None of you have to agree, but this is just me. I hold strongly to my opinion that Little Macs require least skill in this game.

I like to have fun. Not headaches.

 

[Sonovin]

Somehow all the bad Little Macs giving all the good ones a bad rep.

 

[cardboardowl]

In competitive play, mac is actually not easy at all. He has very few options and that makes him predictable. He's not even close to op.

 

[S_B]

Various reasons, like priority attacks, attacks that are too strong, OP recovery(s), etc.

Yep, and add safe recoveries to that list.

One of the reasons MK was so ridiculously strong was because he had some of the safest approaches of any character (thus nullifying the disadvantage of not having a projectile).

 

[Smash_Of_Fate]

Little Mac is balanced as far as I'm concerned. His awesome ground game and KO Punch are a huge threat, but his glaring air and off-stage weakness is literally laughable. I main Sonic so his speed isn't a problem for me as I'm used to dealing with blazing fast characters already. I just throw him off stage and a single Bair/Fair later, regardless of percent, he lost a stock. His Side-B off stage is way too predicable and I rarely get hit by his counter, as a matter of fact I'm usually baiting it especially when I get him in the air. What Mac's problem is that he has "The Hulk Syndrom" like the character The Hulk (duh) from Ultimate Marvel VS Capcom 3. Some people, especially beginners, don't know how to deal with armor effectively and he winds up being called "cheap" as a result. Funny thing I main Hulk in UMvC3 so I'm already ahead as far a game plan when dealing with Mac because I know how to effectively shut down armor.

It's the most stupid comeback fator I ever saw in a fighting game.

You obviously haven't heard of X-Factor!

KO Punch only disappears if you get hit hard enough to go into tumble

^ Also THIS!

 

[Thor]

You obviously haven't heard of X-Factor!

I occasionally to play UMvC 3 with, and I had originally when I got into it picked Zero (I thought he was cool, could combo a little, and could use his projectile), Dante (also cool and I could do some of his combos, plus I loved Jam Session assist), and Vergil (thought he was cool even though I could only do one thing). Then when I learned I picked top tiers I laughed.

But this guy I used to play with was better than me at most combos, and would often quickly exterminate my Zero and Dante. But we went about 50-50 because 5-meter-X-Factor-3 Vergil is busted XD [half the time he could beat it, half he couldn't, more or less].

Little Mac's KO punch has nothing on that.

Also I personally don't think the KO punch has that great a hitbox and is not that fast, but that's me... is it like frame 10 or something?

I honestly think he makes Meta Knight and Ice Climbers in Brawl combined look weak.

You have clearly never played a strong Meta Knight or Ice Climbers - they are FAR more difficult to effectively face down than Little Mac. The combination you created is this: best recovery hands-down, can gimp pretty much all characters even at low percents without stage spikes except maybe one or two (Pikachu's QA is so good), the ability to kill off the sides extremely early with a wall-of-pain tactics, long-range ground game with strong mixup options on shield, almost lagless aerials with decent range (one of which does 19% on its own), a moving death swirl that requires very quick reflexes and thinking to beat out (or else you must shield and eat the shield damage), an almost lagless and rather strong smash attack, and a reliable ground AND aerial KO move. Also if you are grabbed you will almost always die.

Little Mac doesn't come close.

 

[Ryik]

I honestly think he makes Meta Knight and Ice Climbers in Brawl combined look weak

PFFFTHAHAHAHAHA DAMN SON.

Instant death Ice Climbers:

 

[Greda]

PFFFTHAHAHAHAHA DAMN SON.

Instant death Ice Climbers:

(If it does not go to its proper place for some reason, it's 49:08)

Everyone quotes me on this but fails to understand I'm exaggerating.

 

[Judo777]

I actually feel like Mac is a relatively weak character overall. What I mean is that Mac when playing against medium level players will have a VERY hard time. As stated Mac has stellar ground game and tons of tools to get in a hit at neutral. The problem is he NEEDS these tools because practically every time gets a hit it will be at neutral. As stated he has horrible follow up capability because he has no air game. The only real trapping you can do it trapping landings or getting people from off the edge and then only if there aren't any platforms at all.

In tournament Mac will never get to play on FD it will get banned everytime. So literally his play style will be get in their face at neutral and try to hit them before they hit you, if you succeed cool, you let them land on the platform and eventually get to the ground and try again. However in the situation above if you fail and get hit yourself, you get thrown into a hirrble position where you can theoretically take 70% trying to get back to the stage, with almost no form of retaliation, so either you get hit or you manage to escape and at best you are on even footing again.

Little Mac is basically never in an advantageous spot, he is just more solid at neutral, with the flipside of being able to be put in horrible lose-tie situations.

Playing against medium level players and above, little mac will require ALOT of focus because you need to control the match the whole game and win at neutral about 3 times as often as your opponent does.

The real reason people don't like him is he is a scrub slayer (just like wolf and GW in brawl) and becomes significantly better on wifi where strong fast moves become god-like, FD is the only stage, and timing juggle traps is really difficult (basically exploiting macs weakness is hard on wifi).

 

[Ryik]

Everyone quotes me on this but fails to understand I'm exaggerating.

I honestly think he makes Meta Knight and Ice Climbers in Brawl combined look weak

Misuse of the word honestly aside, you're still comparing Little Mac to two hilariously broken characters, one of which can kill instantly, and another of which that dominated competitive play to the extent that it was banned in tournaments. He doesn't even come close.

 

[Greda]

Misuse of the word honestly aside, you're still comparing Little Mac to two hilariously broken characters, one of which can kill instantly, and another of which that dominated competitive play to the extent that it was banned in tournaments. He doesn't even come close.

Once again, I'm exaggerating. I don't care what type of things Im comparing it to, nor what type of words I'm using, but you certainly didn't have to thoroughly search my post just to find one word to incriminate me.

If it makes you feel satisfied, I'll remove it upon request, because I know how much Meta Knight and Ice Climbers enrages people.

I've said what I wanted to say, and with that I'll leave of with a summary of what I was ORIGINALLY planning on telling everyone:

I think Little Mac is unreasonably powerful.

That is all.

 

[SS-bros14]

Once again, I'm exaggerating. I don't care what type of things Im comparing it to, nor what type of words I'm using, but you certainly didn't have to thoroughly search my post just to find one word to incriminate me.

If it makes you feel satisfied, I'll remove it upon request, because I know how much Meta Knight and Ice Climbers enrages people.

I've said what I wanted to say, and with that I'll leave of with a summary of what I was ORIGINALLY planning on telling everyone:

I think Little Mac is unreasonably powerful.

That is all.

Thoroughly search? It was literally like the fifth sentence in you're post.

 

[Greda]

Thoroughly search? It was literally like the fifth sentence in you're post.

I'm not going to argue, but if you wanted to find something like that you would at the very least have to look back at my post a second time. Anyways, I'm leaving this thread, because this is going to sum up into one of the stupidest arguments of all time, just for one or two sentences.

Y'all can keep replying to me, but you could yell at a brick wall and have the same effect. This got off topic really fast.

 

[xExcel]

ITT: people whining about a character that's pathetically easy to beat.

 

[SS-bros14]

ITT: people whining about a character that's pathetically easy to beat, and Greda being stupid.

I agree with the first part, but come on, Greda's not acting stupid.

 

[xExcel]

I agree with the first part, but come on, Greda's not acting stupid.

Once again, I'm exaggerating. I don't care what type of things Im comparing it to, nor what type of words I'm using, but you certainly didn't have to thoroughly search my post just to find one word to incriminate me.

sorry but this just seems stupid to me. but I'll edit that part out since it will probably lead to this thread being derailed even further (not that that's a bad thing since I'm getting sick of reading complaints about a character that can easily be killed at low percentage)

 

[warionumbah2]

Rosalina and Yoshi. BOOOM!

GG

Easy to pick up and you'll see amazing results early on. Little Mac is getting heat when there's like 4 other characters that are even worse than him.

The mac hate is a bandwagon that's already crashed.

 

[xExcel]

Easy to pick up and you'll see amazing results early on. Little Mac is getting heat when there's like 4 other characters that are even worse than him.

I'm sayin'. ******** about Mac is the "cool" thing to do.

 

[Lúcio]

I've played him along with Megaman and Falcon as my main throughout SSB4 since I loved the original Punch-Out so much. I was playing wireless with my friends the other day and the all called me a nub and stated that Mac was 'for baddies only.' The general feeling around this board seems to be the same too, with contempt to anyone who touches the character. Why is this? He's a solid ABC-tier close combat fighter, with great strengths and weaknesses to balance him. I think he's just gotten a bad rap over people that were trying to learn the class online and accidentally suicided with their Side B.

(Mods if this is in the wrong spot please just move it)

i think he surprised people at first.
he's incredibly fast with great combos and stupidly high damaging attacks, not to mention the KO punch build up he gets.
personally i can't stand the character but i have no trouble beating him whatsoever.

i feel like for glory is suited really well for him due to the single, level platform however the character as a whole has some awful, awful weaknesses.
if you get him off the edge at damage over 50%, he's probably dead.
if you're a good dodger and can learn his attack patterns it won't take you long before you're loving your little mac match ups.

no word of a lie, i beat a little mac yesterday with 0% damage on for glory.
it took me 22 seconds...

 

[Red5_snt]

I personally feel bad for Little Mac mains... the community (mainly younger and less informed individuals) come down on you for crap reasons. Your character has great strengths, but I don't think any of these people are really thinking about how bad having little to no air game really is in this series. Personally, I prefer the air in most of my fights so picking up little mac felt even more intense from the other side of the MU.

After I got the hang of him (I'm still a newb overall... make no mistake) I noticed something. Everyone plays so tentatively against him. It's honestly boring.... everyone is so afraid of this guy it's actually kind of hilarious. I figured out early on that if you pressure a scrub LM he usually can't think quick enough to react... or if you bait his counter in the air.. guess what? Free freakin' hit... If you run from him and throw only one attack out every 10 seconds it's just time for me to brace myself... or just go ape on your face.

People who whine about this guy have obviously never fought Ivan Ooze before... they don't understand what it means to be broken. And MK is NOT broken... just learn the MU, THINK when you play...and you won't have to worry about getting wrecked by scrub mac players anymore.

 

[shinhed-echi]

Either way, I stopped caring. He's SUPER fun to play as. And I've never enjoyed playing OP characters before.

But Mac is an exception, both because he's one of my favorite Nintendo characters, and 2 because I KNOW I can get easily gimped. So it's a VERY fair trade.

 

[Tino]

People are only considered bad for maining Little Mac if they have no skill to use him correctly. That's how I see it.

As he's one of my secondary mains, he's a lotta fun to play as especially during stock matches. It took me lots of skill and practice to get real good with him and since then, I've been fighting like a true boxing champ.