Why are people considered bad for maining Little Mac?

[Twigler]

Little Mac packs a punch!!! He is too RAW!!!

 

[Luggy]

His reputation has been pretty much destroyed because of the FG Lil'Macs, and now is considered as either an easy opponent or an OP machine. But in reality, the real reason Mac is "hated" is this : people are scared of him.

Little Mac is a hard character to master and actually having good results with him. When played good, Mac is scary, letting the opponent no way to have a rest and can K.O faster than any other character. But that's not the reason why people are scared of him, they are scared of losing to him, scared to be defeated by something that shouldn't be that hard to defeat. When people are defeated by a Mac, it's not like other characters, it's an insult : being defeated by a character that has such a big weakness can be really hard. And since Little Mac is overall weird to fight, he kept winning, creating hate around him, being called "Over Powered" or "A bad character".

When you're scared of something, you either respect it or hate it. Little Mac is just victim of his own power, creating unwanted fears that gave him at the end hate. And that's sad.

 

[Altais]

Little Mac is just victim of his own power, creating unwanted fears that gave him at the end hate. And that's sad.

Ha ha, this really cracked me up!

Anyhow, even before Smash 4 came out, I have always been terrified of Little Mac, especially considering he has the home field advantage in stages like Boxing Ring and Bridge of Eldin. I'll admit, on the 3DS version, I avoid him on Classic Mode if I can.

That said however, I personally don't dislike Little Mac--quite the opposite, actually. He's a totally unique Smash character, and for that, he has mine approval. In mine opinion, the reason why Mac has so many bad statistics is simply because people don't know how to use him effectively. Online, I came across a Mac pro on the Mega Man stage and got mine arse handed to me--which is saying much, as I am not a pushover casual player.

When dealing with Little Mac, I usually focus on trying to grab him and throw him in the air or off the stage. Because of his super armour frames and his dangerous counter attack, I usually stick with projectiles when going on the offensive against him.

 

[xJMANx]

When dealing with Little Mac, I usually focus on trying to grab him and throw him in the air or off the stage. Because of his super armour frames and his dangerous counter attack, I usually stick with projectiles when going on the offensive against him.

This. I have an extremely hard time getting close to characters that have a bevy of projectiles to keep distance.


Just to add to the discussion, Mac's ground game is his bread and butter. I will punish any player who allows me to get in close and lets me stay on the ground with my forward smash attack followed with the triple A neutral attack.

I will also punish any player that tries to attack close without knocking me off my feet with the repeating neutral combo.

His back b charge punch is the quickest counter move I have witnessed in the game. I can miss my forward smash past the enemy and counter with back B before the enemy can recover. If you let me grab you, I will down grab and combo you based on the direction of the bounce.

If I spot a tendency in your attacking, I will down B counter every time. If you don't get back to the ledge properly after being hit of the stage, I will punish with a down smash.

The only punish in the air game that I will go for is the up B attack. However, I have to first hit the opponent high in the air to register the KO up high. The drawback for me is that if I miss, I can easily be punished once I land back on the stage. Mac’s other aerials are very weak and can leave him exposed.

I will throw in a neutral B from time to time to either ledge guard or for a punish if I am close enough. If I have a KO meter, I will look to punish but it is very difficult to land it on an experienced player.

What can punish me: Characters that have good aerials, characters that are good at grabbing and can combo off the grab, characters that have good ledge defense, characters with projectiles, and characters that have good recovery. Mac’s recovery is horrendous and can be knocked off the stage very easily at a low health percentage. Mac cannot attack nor counter very well in the air.

Simply put, Mac is all about the counter and punish. If you leave yourself exposed for the slightest moment, a good Mac player will punish and possibly set up a quick KO. I would assume the reason why he feels so cheap because he either KOs or dies in a short amount of round time/character health. I excited to experiment more with Mac to see what other advance moves I can develop.

 

[greenluigiman2]

Simply put, Mac is all about the counter and punish. If you leave yourself exposed for the slightest moment, a good Mac player will punish and possibly set up a quick KO. I would assume the reason why he feels so cheap because he either KOs or dies in a short amount of round time/character health. I excited to experiment more with Mac to see what other advance moves I can develop.

This sums it all up. I don't know why people assumed Little Mac was a rushdown character. If you try to rushdown with Little Mac you run the risk of having the opponent do to you what a good Mac player should be doing to his opponent. Countering and punishing. It's just like the Punch-Out!! game.

 

[LeKevin]

Those are just haters who don't know how to handle him. I can almost guarantee you, those who don't know how to deal with Little Mac, never use the throwing ability or any form of dodge. I like playing him against other fast characters, and his downfalls stick out like a soar thumb. He's not a beginners character to use or face.

 

[Neverbound]

All the for glory macs I have to throw off the stage and laugh at

 

[OmegaSorin]

To add to this I'm going to quote myself from another thread:

Little Mac is probably one of the worst characters in the game, and its not because he's 'overpowered' at all. The guy has literally no air game at all, and if he's knocked far off the screen with no second jump he's as good as dead, the only thing he has going for him is speed, a small amount of super armor, and his extreme power thats it really. Everything else is generally against him. I don't get why people have said he's overpowered, he really isn't. at all.

His KO punch is -extremely easy- to predict, and extremely difficult to hit with and if you miss the air knocks your opponent out of punish zone so you can't really follow up, further more he has like a 4 second cooldown to return to fighting and dodging, which can easily be destroyed by any range fighter, let alone a melee based fighter. His KO punch is literally one of his worst moves unless you time it absolutely perfect.

I think people are seriously just thinking he's overpowered cause they done f'ed up a match against a mac and lost, so they be butt hurt lol.

Furthermore, I'm not saying that he can't be a good character through practice, he can be, but he has quite a learning curve to him compared to other characters.

^ This is what I have to say, people are generally just butt hurt over the fact they lose against someone who should be predictable in the hands of a newbie. And then come online to rage and complain or try to 'trick' other players into not playing him cause those who play him are 'bad'. Pfft, just ignore the people and keep on Mac'in those combo's and become the best Lil Mac player ever. Fook the haters yo.

 

[viewtifulduck82]

To add to this I'm going to quote myself from another thread:



^ This is what I have to say, people are generally just butt hurt over the fact they lose against someone who should be predictable in the hands of a newbie. And then come online to rage and complain or try to 'trick' other players into not playing him cause those who play him are 'bad'. Pfft, just ignore the people and keep on Mac'in those combo's and become the best Lil Mac player ever. Fook the haters yo.

Please tell me you have smash wii u so I can show you the error of your ways. Mac is definitely not one of the worst characters in the game. In fact, I'd argue he's in the top 15. Do not judge a character by it's nooby userbase, judge it based on what the better players can do with said character. End rant\

 

[OmegaSorin]

Please tell me you have smash wii u so I can show you the error of your ways. Mac is definitely not one of the worst characters in the game. In fact, I'd argue he's in the top 15. Do not judge a character by it's nooby userbase, judge it based on what the better players can do with said character. End rant\

you obviously didn't read my post you silly person. Oh well. Yes I have the Wii U version, No I can't play right now I actually have work to go to in less then an hour, and I'm sure you'll show me the error of my ways even though I never once said that someone couldn't master him and play him amazingly...

 

[Daisy101]

Recover is the worst, just play wisely. you can punish rolls and terrible tech, no need to focus on this KO B.

 

[-Jax]

I literally just stand at the edge against Mac and wait for them to mess up and do something I can grab them out off. I think the main thing discerning good Mac players from bad players is knowing what's safe and what isn't, though that probably applies to a lot of Sm4sh in general. It's just that noobs have never heard of punishing or safe moves vs unsafe moves, and just try to stop every attack with an attack and then deem Mac OP because they're bad.

Overall though, even playing against a good Mac player feels very binary. He'll be looking for ways to poke you without getting punished, and you'll be looking for ways to get him off the ground. Every single time. I don't think he has a great future in competitive play when people really start learning all the characters, as Mac can pretty much be narrowed down to a flowchart much faster than any other character, meaning eventually people knowing their own character will know what works against which Mac move, as it's a matchup that's very quickly learned compared to matchups against some stranger characters like Rosalina & Luma or Duck Hunt (Duo), where there are a lot more factors to consider at any moment.

Another interesting thing about little Mac is that he's really fun to play in my opinion because your opponents will be different every time, and it's all about pacing yourself and finding the right openings to not get punished super hard. Variety is the key word here, as a lot of the fun comes from figuring out how to get past every character's wall. Playing against him is just not fun at all in my opinion as it's extremely repetitive while still forcing you to constantly stay on edge and be aware of what you're doing or you'll get punished hard, regardless of the character you're playing against him. The skill of the player doesn't really give a lot of variance to this repetitive feeling of a match against Mac, it's just a byproduct of the extreme Strength/Weakness theme they integrated into the character.

And scrubs will call anyone playing to win bad. Just ignore them. It's like the people complaining about 'spammy' players that use the same strategy over and over. They blame the spammy player, rather than blaming themselves for falling for the same trick over and over again, meaning they'll never actually improve as a result.

 

[PSIBoy]

As Ness, I mainly wait for Little Mac's at the edge, shield their dash attack, grab then, throw them off the edge, and attempt to gimp them. Occasionally I might charge in to punish a roll and do d-throw to f-air combo. Kirby's pretty much the same except with less potent throws and can't do much in the way of combos outside throws. TL projectile camps. Haven't come across a Little Mac as Dark Pit yet, and Ganon... Try to throw him off/follow him in only to punish, but he's harder to use than the others.

The key against Little Mac's is to grab and get them in the air. Considering how lag-less most of Little Mac's moves are, this means you have to think 2 steps ahead. But you could predict wrong and get slammed with a D-Smash thinking he was going to roll away and vice versa. It just takes experience and a little luck but then the intermediate Little Mac's shouldn't be winning consistently.

The good ones, on the other hand... This will not work on them. You'll have to fight them on their ground in FD. On other stages, it's less of an issue, but good ones are not foolish enough to go charging towards you on the edge without some sort of plan. You just have to be patient, play smart and defensive, and stay two steps ahead.

People who whine about this guy have obviously never fought Ivan Ooze before... they don't understand what it means to be broken. And MK is NOT broken... just learn the MU, THINK when you play...and you won't have to worry about getting wrecked by scrub mac players anymore.

If Meta Knight is not broken, then please explain why he has a tier to himself at the very top (aka God Tier)? And why was he banned from tournaments for a time? Or why the closest to a disadvantageous matchup is Pikachu and that's 50-50?

 

[Quisciens]

People like to exaggerate his abilities and downplay his weaknesses. They don't understand that he has half of a moveset, or that he is unable to get back to the stage even when he isn't gimped. What they don't understand is this -- compared to Sheik of similar speed(but astoundingly superior recovery), his kill moves are much stronger. Sheik, however, has increased air mobility with powerful air attacks that might even kill. Little Mac doesn't have the option to use his air moves to kill, so a select few of his power moves need to be buffed up. The KO can be lost from a single throw, end of discussion as far as this goes. His Straight Lunge essentially removes yet another move from his moveset, as it's borderline impossible to land and is very easy to shield. His Slip Counter isn't nearly as powerful as Marth's or Lucina's, but it makes up for it with recovery power, allowing him to gain forward boost. If this is a problem, and the Little Mac you are fighting is repeatedly using this as air defense, it's up to you to A. try the same tactic over and over or B. fake him out first, because failing the counter will ruin his recovery even more. His Jolt Haymaker can be easily punished when shielded because it has quite a bit of landing lag, specifically against grab-happy opponents. His Rising Uppercut can be really useful as a follow-up or risky kill option. Air-dodging it will leave Little Mac very open. As a follow-up, he would need to use a throw or a low-damage setup move. Neither of these would make it possible for it to kill when used as a follow-up.
A lot of players also don't realize just how much of a disadvantage his air game is. When people talk about the ending lag on his attacks, what they don't realize is that it might even have more ending lag than the landing lag that most air attacks have. Furthermore, Little Mac cannot combo at all. Why do his attacks do more damage? He's not blessed with 30% grab combos as other characters may be. Even then, it's not very balanced for him -- while these grab combos can't be shielded, his smash moves can. This brings up another point of mine - he doesn't have a shield breaker move, and none of his attacks do very much to a shield. As he drops like a stone, a single grab can cost him more than any other character. If you're complaining about the super armor on Little Mac's smashes, again refer to the above -- you can't escape a ~20% grab combo by attacking, why should you be able to attack Little Mac out of his combo compensation?
My mind is coming up blank for other things to say, so if you have a comment on anything I've said, I'd be happy to point out how balanced this character is.

Please make sure you read my post thoroughly if you intend to comment, because I don't want to need to repeat myself.

 

[Virum]

*Snip*

You bring up some good points, however there are a few things here which I feel are incorrect or misinformed.

First, Mac's counter is DEFINITELY stronger than Lucina's and Martha's. It has a 1.3 damage multiplier compared to their 1.1, making it tied with Shulk's regular counter in terms of power. In addition it also has significantly more active frames than Marth/Lucina's counters.

Second, and this is a general comment, people need to shed this mentality that Mac's aerials are useless because this simply untrue due to a number of key factors. The first being that all of them barring DAir come out relatively fast and have low end lag. NAir for instance is basically a jab in mid air and is quick enough for you to do multiple per short hop. The other key thing to note is that short hop FAir and BAir auto cancel. This allows them to be surprisingly handy tools for scouting opponent's jumps and bringing them back down to play your ground game. FAir in particular has enough hitstun to confirm into jab. Meanwhile UAir can be used to poke foes on platforms above you as it's a much safer option than Up B and we all know about the infamous NAir to footstool gimps. His only aerial that has basically no utility is his DAir. That move is awful in every way and if you really want to catch someone below you with an aerial NAir is always the better option. Now granted I'm not saying his aerials are good. They are of course very weak in terms of damage and knockback, have terrible range and have a lot of landing but they are options nonetheless and can be key to disrupting your opponent's momentum and approaches.

Third, while Mac does have a few combo strings (DTilt > FTilt/SideB, DTilt > FAir > Jab) his strength lies in his powerful pressure tools. Provided you space them properly his entire ground move set is safe on shield and his smashes, most notably down angled FSmash, deal a lot of shield damage. In addition to this a lot of his moves have an interesting property where he can force his opponent to clank while he himself doesn't, granting him incredible ground priority.

I do agree with your main point though. This character is by no means too good and despite his polarised design he's rather balanced in the grand scheme of things.

 

[Quisciens]

Weird about Mac's counter. I've never seen it actually kill, but I have seen Marth's or Lucina's kill. Circumstancial difference, I guess. (hahaha Martha) Little Mac's air attacks are pretty good I noticed a little while ago for shorthops, but are very difficult to land with their awful range. That said, I have actually gimped someone once or twice with his BAir because of its entirely horizontal knockback. It's not bad, but it would be very easy for someone to turn that around with you ending up gimped, due to his low priority and range on his air attacks. I agree, though -- his air attacks aren't completely useless. He's still missing a special move in his Straight Lunge, though.

 

[Weeman]

I seriously don't know how to deal with good Little Macs, everything they do is unpunishable and they can just keep me from landing safely, seriously when the LM player is good, it's actually pretty terrifying, like there's no way to get past him unless your character has good projectiles, wich in the case of my main Falcon, he doesn't.

 

[Quisciens]

Good projectiles aren't what's going to let you defeat Mac, it's how well you can pressure and predict opponents in the air. Little Mac's best air defense, the counter, gets easily read after the first time it's used in the air, meaning at that point you can just fake him out, then deliver a blow to take his stock.

 

[A_Phoenix_Down]

His moves are extremely fast with very fast recovery and super powerful and have priority over just about any other attack with pretty much all of his attacks haging super armor. He rewards a player who spams attacks and smashes.

On the other hand with powerful characters with bowser, yeah they have super armor, but their attacks don't come out in just a frame. With Mac you're safe as long as you spam.

I played with a Mac the other day who was literally just spamming A the entire time. I hit him away from me and he started comboing the air like crazy. Its almost like he wasnt even paying attention to the fight... just mashing A as fast as possible.

 

[DunnoBro]

Stereotypes exist for a reason. Exposure/acknowledgement determines preconceptions. In this case, little mac has a very poor average player skill level. Not by any fault of his own really, it's just he's appealing both aesthetically and functionally to casual players who tend to think within only a few next moves within their playstyle. (Just want to get an smash or dash attack in)
As a result, people become used to bad macs.

 

[Quisciens]

His moves are extremely fast with very fast recovery and super powerful and have priority over just about any other attack with pretty much all of his attacks haging super armor. He rewards a player who spams attacks and smashes.

On the other hand with powerful characters with bowser, yeah they have super armor, but their attacks don't come out in just a frame. With Mac you're safe as long as you spam.

I played with a Mac the other day who was literally just spamming A the entire time. I hit him away from me and he started comboing the air like crazy. Its almost like he wasnt even paying attention to the fight... just mashing A as fast as possible.

If you can't deal with a spamming Mac, I don't know what to say.

 

[C3CC]

Because he's OP as hell. Sure, he does suck in the air, but I just think that no character should be that strong. It's just unfair. He's also really quick so he's a pain in the ass. I despise him, personally. Both as a fighter and as a character. I think he should have stayed as an Assist Trophy.

 

[Weeman]

Because he's OP as hell. Sure, he does suck in the air, but I just think that no character should be that strong. It's just unfair. He's also really quick so he's a pain in the ***. I despise him, personally. Both as a fighter and as a character. I think he should have stayed as an Assist Trophy.

He ain't OP, you just gotta play him properly, everything he does on the ground is very frame safe so you have to read his moves beforehand, instead of trying to punish afterwards, and honestly one throw off stage and one pseudo gimp aerial and it's over for Mac.

 

[Jebus244]

the real reason Mac is "hated" is this : people are scared of him.

Little Mac is a hard character to master and actually having good results with him.

I don't think either of these things are true. He's not scary, he's annoying. He is not hard to master, his strongest game is literally the first thing any new player learns, the ground game. His weaknesses encourage you to exploit his strengths, which are much more difficult to play against effectively than they are difficult to learn as a Mac player.


Edit: I'd like to add that I do enjoy the challenge he poses, but he is still annoying. He has glaring weaknesses, but that's not enough to make up for a player who can effectively use his strengths.

 

[Luggy]

I don't think either of these things are true. He's not scary, he's annoying. He is not hard to master, his strongest game is literally the first thing any new player learns, the ground game. His weaknesses encourage you to exploit his strengths, which are much more difficult to play against effectively than they are difficult to learn as a Mac player.

You clearly don't main Mac, or at least play him a lot. He seems easy, but in reality, he's hard to master properly. Sure, if you only do smash attacks and only go on FG, maybe he's "annoying" and seems easy to learn. In reality though, Mac is the hardest character to fight, since everything is against him : platforms, recovery, aerial attacks, knockback ect...
His strenghts is easy to fight when you know how to fight them and read the player well, but when you don't, Mac is going wreck you.

Remember : it's not because beginners are playing him that he's the "easiest character" to master. If this rule was true, then he wouldn't have the lowest winning strike.

 

[jsmoe]

All the salt here is exactly why I main kirby.

 

[Jebus244]

You clearly don't main Mac, or at least play him a lot. He seems easy, but in reality, he's hard to master properly.

No need to be condescending, I was sharing an opinion. I'm actually pretty good as Mac. Even though I found him easy to master "properly", I can see why some people would have a difficult time if they main airial or floaty characters. I was sharing an opinion, and I was trying to be somewhat objective, and I still believe what I said to be true. Of course I take my experiences from FG, but that's only because that's where these issues with Mac are most prevalent. Especially with input lag, you don't need to be as precise with button timing when it comes to Mac compared to someone like mega man or Samus.

Remember : it's not because beginners are playing him that he's the "easiest character" to master.

I gave other reasons as to why I think he's easy. I didn't say it was because new players are playing him. His strengths lie in the most basic area of gameplay, that's what makes him easy imo.

Edit: I'm going to take some heat for comparing him to MK. I don't think he is broken like MK (brawl), but like MK, if you learn to exploit his strengths, you don't really have to contend with his weaknesses.

Edit 2: To clarify, I'm not saying he is OP, just a mash A easy type character for beginners, which isn't to say he doesn't have good potential for skilled players.

 

[KingPinGamez]

Little Mac does have a variety of weaknesses and strengths that make him suited for beginners:

Strengths:
-fast on ground
-tilts and specials have KO power, as do his very strong smashes
-smashes have armor
-has an OHKO move (not really, but close enough)
-all his grounded stuff has high damage output
-has reasonable approach options (somewhat predictable, but he certainly can get close easily), including a decent dash attack.
-probably other stuff I'm missing

Cons:
-bad recovery
-terrible air game
-due to the above, can't edgeguard offstage at all (at least I haven't seen any Little Mac ever pose a credible threat to any offstage character).
-poor follow-up ability to launching attacks
-some other stuff I'm sure I'm missing

Why does this make him very player-friendly to a new player? Well, among other things, I often see new players do a lot of things: randomly charge smash attacks, use tilts but not smashes or vice versa, jab a lot, run straight in and dash attack. Little Mac has the tools to make ALL of these things good - armor on smashes such that just timing the release means Mac almost always comes out ahead, his tilts are strong enough that smashes aren't terribly necessary (and vice versa), he has a very good jab combo (16% if you start and don't all extend the rapid jab), and his run is very fast (and somewhat low) which means others have less time to think and react to his approaches, plus his dash attack is none too shabby. He also has the KO punch, which is a single-use "Hit this and win or get a nice lead/reduce the lead" button - something that appeals to lots of new players, even if it's hard to land.

But his weaknesses make the picture even clearer. Oftentimes, I see new players do the following: not edgeguard, not be able to recover even when their character clearly can, not use aerials efficiently or at all, not follow up on launching attacks. The fact is, new players are not used to trying to follow up launching attacks or edgeguard, so they don't notice Little Mac's (relative) inability to do these thing. Since Little Mac is balanced around strengths almost all new players use and his weaknesses are things that many new players would not do on a character without them anyway, he seems very strong (which is also why many new players may think Jigglypuff is terrible - her air game and recovery (and rest) are fantastic, but comboing into rest is not easy for new players unused to comboing and many play so grounded that her great recovery and air game are simply unused).

This combination of factors leads newer players to label him OP and for others to label him "for n00bs" because he's in many ways built as a great character for new players, or people who would not use all the strengths of other characters. Thus someone who plays him may be labeled a new player, and thus bad at the game (though of course the label can be very inaccurate).

EDIT: Not all new players are the same, but I have seen far more who fit the picture I have described above very very well than those who are new and try to use aerials all the time or shield and grab a lot or whatever. This is why I paint new players in rather broad strokes - of course some break the mold, but far more seem to fit the mold very well.

And personally, I think Little Mac is a fine character to main, and I don't think someone who uses him is necessarily bad or whatever - I think he's a good deal of fun and an interesting challenge to use against characters with strong gimping and aerial games.

You sir, found a way to describe pretty much everyone who is a newcomer to the smash series.
Job well done. I love this post and would like to know how you came to this conclusion.

 

[Thor]

You sir, found a way to describe pretty much everyone who is a newcomer to the smash series.
Job well done. I love this post and would like to know how you came to this conclusion.

The short version: I played a bunch of new people for a long time and they all did the same thing. If you want more details, here's the long version [spoilered]:

Spoiler

At my high school a few years ago, some people brought in a Wii with Brawl on it for lunch. After getting the principal's permission, we did this for a while, and last year I brought in my own Wii. I was considered the best hands-down [and had tons of game knowledge relative to them]. While playing with them I noticed something - I was never edgeguarded, no matter who I was playing (it would be an accurate statement to say that recovering with Ganondorf in Brawl was free while playing with them - yes the worst recovery in the game was easy to use, because no one ever came and hit me off - even the one guy who sometimes picked MK would never run off to do anything about my character). I was rarely followed up on even after a trip or something on the ground (they'd either always do the same thing or kinda stand there), and in the air after a launcher I was almost never followed (the best of them would follow me with Toon Link's uair, but that's about it...), people almost never used nair (though I admittedly used to have the same problem, since for a while I played Brawl Falco and just used bair whenever I could use nair, and since they never airdodged that worked wonders), and some of the worst ones would mess up Ike's recovery (or Kirby's, or whomever has a recovery that takes some type of skill to use).

Speaking of which, you can add that Mac's grab game doesn't seem terribly impressive, but these people never followed up on grabs, though very few of them ever grabbed (and some of Mac's stuff has good shield pushback to answer shields - so you can [almost] safely fsmash a shield as an answer to it [certainly avoids most shieldgrabs], something few others can do). I noticed these things because I played with them many days (usually in FFAs), and then the following year (the one I brought my own Wii for), some new people joined the group and they did the exact same thing.

Then a Smash club was started late in the year and we played Melee, and the same things happened - recovering with Falco was easy-peasy (no one in the way), but I'd see others mess up Peach's recovery (when they knew how to float... ) and people wouldn't do many combos in Melee, except the best people (Even though with higher fallspeeds, you don't have to go as far to continue [and there are far fewer options to avoid a followup]). Because of almost everyone's shortcomings (A few of the strongest did some edgeguarding and a few combos), I won every tournament event the club ever had (School only), except for one doubles event where I took second teamed with an AI.

So when I read this thread, I simply thought "What about Mac would make him appealing to new players?" and applied all this stuff I'd noticed over the course of about 2 years and wrote up a post on it.

 

[roymustang1990-]

Well I can understand the hate Mac players since I got stuffed by a player on glory who was fundamentally lacking.

I really don't like how Mac is safe on block/punish after attacking. :/

 

[GenG]

I got called SCRUB today when fighting as Mac, and when I lost because lag, they told me to LEARN2PLAY. Now I cannot sleep at night.

 

[PSIBoy]

I got called SCRUB today when fighting as Mac, and when I lost because lag, they told me to LEARN2PLAY. Now I cannot sleep at night.

Jerk. Hate those kinds of people who strive to put down others to make themselves feel better.

While I understand why people hate him (in my opinion he should have more lag on smashes at least and possibly dash attack), he is far from Brawl Meta Knight, much less unbeatable. The trouble is managing to get them into the air, keeping them there, and getting around their counter. A good one will play hard to stay out of the air.

 

[Jebus244]

Jerk. Hate those kinds of people who strive to put down others to make themselves feel better.

While I understand why people hate him (in my opinion he should have more lag on smashes at least and possibly dash attack), he is far from Brawl Meta Knight, much less unbeatable. The trouble is managing to get them into the air, keeping them there, and getting around their counter. A good one will play hard to stay out of the air.

I don't think he's broken at all. In regards to this thread topic, I think he's actually a great addition to the roster, and when a new player starts to learn things and get better, I'm like "you're getting better, you should try out Mac for some kills". I feel he gives those types of players more of a chance, or at least gives them some satisfaction after landing a few smashes or a KO punch. If someone mains Mac, I don't think they are bad. Playing a Mac main vs playing a Mac casual is totally different, and it feels diffetent. You can really tell when someone has put the time into learning Mac.

 

[PSIBoy]

I don't think he's broken at all. In regards to this thread topic, I think he's actually a great addition to the roster, and when a new player starts to learn things and get better, I'm like "you're getting better, you should try out Mac for some kills". I feel he gives those types of players more of a chance, or at least gives them some satisfaction after landing a few smashes or a KO punch. If someone mains Mac, I don't think they are bad. Playing a Mac main vs playing a Mac casual is totally different, and it feels diffetent. You can really tell when someone has put the time into learning Mac.

I meant he is not anywhere close to Meta Knight's level or unbeatable. It's just he gets this reputation since he's so easy to use and I think slight nerfs to the ending lag may encourage people to play him more as a punish type of character. I don't think people that main him are necessarily bad, but he got this reputation of people being 'scrubs' because of his easiness for newbies to pick up.

 

[Golden Sun]

He's more annoying than Sonic, his rolls are actually hard to get too since they're fast.

 

[blightning]

I think this has been covered a few times over already in various forms, so I'll just pile on top. I'm relatively new to Smash and typically play with Mega Man, but tonight I found myself getting demolished over and over in FG (against a Zelda, if you're wondering). I just didn't have the speed to catch up to and avoid attacks like I needed to. So I switched to Mac (I'd say he's my #2) and the fights leveled out pretty quickly. The attacks that I could see coming before, now I could also dodge.

Does that make him OP? I don't know. Maybe I'm better suited for a faster player? I like Sonic too, but Mac sure hits like a truck. When I first played with him, it was really difficult. The complete lack of aerials and minimum recovery from the edges were a serious problem. Once I adjusted and started working on keeping my feet on the ground essentially at all times (after, yes, more side Bs off the stage than I should admit to), I started to get it. Mac's just a very different character.

Overall, I wouldn't fault anyone for playing any character. Even if Mac was designed to be easier to pick up for a new player (which the recovery and aerials almost suggest against, in my mind)... would that be such a bad thing?

 

[Tino]

I got nothing but respect I have for all the Little Mac users here. Clearly all the ridicule they been getting just cuz they like playing as him is completely unnecessary. Those haters are just complete dumb***es.

 

[Putuk]

Well they say they removed tripping, but all I see is all them Macs tripping off the stage! Haw!

 

[Sodo]

I've played Little Macs at both ends of the spectrum. I've played against Little Macs that bodied me into oblivion, and I've played Little Macs that obviously had no idea how to play the character. It's people like the latter that give Little Mac this reputation, but I feel it's only because there are so many more of them than the people who invest time and effort into the character. While you could say this about any character (Diddy comes to mind), I think there's a certain stigma about Little Mac in the community right now. I personally think he's a ton of fun to play as, but I don't understand the nuances enough to play him at a high level.

 

[Opossum]

Well they say they removed tripping, but all I see is all them Macs tripping off the stage! Haw!

That wasn't tripping! That was...falling with style...