Whose Mafia Is it Anyway - Game Over!

[#HBC | Gorf]

Dude. Same.

let the record show that i ****ing read your soul this game while everyone was tryna shade you

 

[Pythag]

let the record show that i ****ing read your soul this game while everyone was tryna shade you

That's the biggest reason to be scared dude.

like, you laid out every single thought I had had that game during the orange fiasco. Crazy stuff

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

off the cuff

ranmaru you played pretty well bro. BIG jump from last game. you were more... consolidated, which is a big plus. i was telling you i was hungry d2 cuz i read you as town but i needed some scrap. so if you just scrap some and keep up your reading (cuz obv something about how you played made them pretty sharp compared to last game) while you scrap and itll do better. but its about grinding it out at this point. g ****

S Soup i commend you on the strat you pulled d1, channeling ate to get sympathy. but it made for a really unfun game. i was down to play with you because it seemed like you wouldnt be insufferable, but you were. you won, and in the spirit of the game i say ggs. but during the game i just didnt have it in me to **** on you as much as i wish i did because i mightve rallied to just get you the **** outta here on d1 so we wouldnt have to deal with you. if we play again ill be sure to cite this game as meta for why we should lynch you when youre scummy and tryna ate bait again.

#HBC | marshy ggs bro, thanks for rallying the troops. this was mad fun. i ****ing hate you for shooting me and not giving me the chance to be wrong in lylo but, i mean, i killed you n1 in the first game so ill let it slide lmfao. bro... i literally led a lynch on a townie through all of d1 and i defended scum, and wound up on a town pr's wagon eod2 when we lynched scum. i am so ****ing bad LMFAO

JeXs Spak ggs guys, sorry for steamrolling you guys! it was a lot of fun playing with both of you throughout both games. i have a feeling that if you guys were as present as you were in the very beginning and end of this game throughout d1 things mightve been different. but there are some things we just cant control unfortunately

KevinM bro i seriously ****ing admire your mafia play. ive read games, hosted games with you in them and played with you and you prove time and time again that youre just so incredibly good at mafia. in the first game, all of town were sucking on mac and my balls. but it was obvious that you (and marshy) were looking at the game different, so we got the hit out on you guys quick lmfao. in this game, you were openly coy in a weird way. but it all made sense when it turned out you were vig and lit up ff and ryker to set up a 4 man mylo instead of 5 man lylo. it was mad fun towning with you and playing with you bro, ggs

#HBC | Kary you were fun to play with bro. it was really fun seeing you as town from scum and town pov. you have a really good way of posturing your playstyle where youre clear about things and open about how your reads develop, but you keep composed and you dont waste too much time on things that dont matter. but you get hecka townread anyway lmfao. i admire your play bro, ggs

Lore i feel like the message has been made already but theres no harm in repeating it if it has: i feel like the weakest part of your play between both games is the fact that you involve yourself way too much with direct interactions and wear your heart way too far on your sleeve in some situations. and it really clogs the thread when you and ran (last and this game) or you and soup (this game) or you and poyzin (last game) have this long, arduous, drawn out interaction. it makes it a chore on town to read and gives scum places to hide. your play is FAR from all bad, so id say place more value on reading how others decide to interact on their own, rather than how they read when you interact with them. its not an all or nothing thing, but right now youre much more skewed to the latter.

#HBC | Ryker youre a bro. last game i was fairly concerned with what you mightve come with on a reread because your ability to put a thread into motion as town is freaking wild. i liked your approach to both of these games, and aside from some missteps here and there it was a really clean scum game. props. ggs.

Pythag i freaking read your soul, man. i cant remember what it was last game, but early on i saw people try shading you and was reading to see if wagoning you would be a good idea and i felt like you had this... earnest nature about you that would make it difficult to look good on you when you flipped green. and then using what i read on you to read you in this game led to me being able to just click with how you approached the game. id say keep playing because that asset will be a really good trait to have when you get a better grip on scumhunting and the overall flow of developing a read. if you want more detail about how i was able to soul read you or how you should approach scumhunting or whatever, feel free to shoot me a pm or something and we can go into further detail

Tom you were arguably my favorite people person to play with that i didnt know at least pretty well. i mean obviously you were a dgames figure but i dont think we ever really played mafia together. you have this ability to play so genuinely but distant at the same time, and it makes reading you a bit of a challenge. but thats not really a bad thing at all. some of the notes that you wrote throughout the two games were super good and i think marshy and ryker were smart to off you early. i may have had you at a null n2 but you mightve been the player i was most interested in going down a deep dive with. your name is legendary in dgames and if you feel like you need some more games to feel like you can play at your prime again, do it so next time i can see you at what you think is your best

Fandangox sup bro, it was mad fun getting to play with you again man! what you lack in being efficient at pushing your scumreads (ryker pointed it out as being a "weaker player" earlier and im sure thats what he meant) you make up for in your ability to spur discussion and examine things that arent necessarily being examined. not every player needs to be a megaphone, but when the going get rough and you feel strongly that youre wagoning scum and it starts losing steam, you gotta bark back. you gotta make people see and get your feet wet. but good ****, you were closer than you probably think on scum!marshy at the end of it

#HBC | FrozeηFlame you are a cool guy man, ggs. last game i was lowkey scared that you were going to be the late game sweeper that town needs in lylo situations because when youre on it, man youre on it. im not gonna tell you to dial down on your harshness in tone because thatd be the pot calling the kettle black, but i will say thats what made me think you were possibly scummy when i read back. theres obviously more to it but that was a contributing factor. aside from that i held onto my guttown read on you for a long time, and its because you are very good at articulating your points and how you came to things. when you were active and when you made fat posts they were really good. but "be more active" isnt something you can practice lmfao. ggs homie

 

[KevinM]

Kary leave mine in the salt folder until I de-rust some more <3

Loved playing with all you guys again

 

[Lore]

Will do shoutouts later for sure, bit busy atm.

#HBC | Kary If you have additional stuff on me that others haven't said (tunneling, too confrontational, clogging the thread, etc), I'd appreciate you adding it. Otherwise, GG and WP!

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Last chance to ask, 'like' my earlier post #2635 if you want some big-brain wisdom, because damn writing these was a lot harder than I thought it'd be.

Part 1:

#HBC | Gorf I don't think you did anything wrong. You were clearly top town at one point and i'm not surprised you got shot because you were putting in a lot of work. If I had to give a criticism, its that if you don't want to get pocketed, then you have to cause trouble and question your town reads.

Tom This game was a kind of perfect storm of bad circumstances for you, and I want you to acknowledge that. You have justifiable paranoia on Lore, soup is hellish to try and read, Kevin isn't very active and Ryker/marshy are scum.
But you were absolutely on the right track this game. You even said that if soup, Lore, Orange all flipped town, you would put Ryker and marshy as scum. You just needed more confidence, and to not be afraid of breaking some eggs. I believe in you.

Pythag It's really hard to win when you're on the chopping block in Lylo. You were blatantly set up this game so I don't blame you at all, but you have to come out swinging if you want to win in that position. Ask for more time, challenge people on their reads, appeal to your meta if you have to, and never give up.
I think one weakness you have is that you're not very persuasive or decisive in your posts, which makes it hard for people to see your motives and easy for scum to make you look bad. But I think changing this would be really hard, and it's more something for you to be aware of. What I said earlier about being familiar with people cuts both ways; over time, it's also easier for them to read you.
If you want a tip for getting reads, something that works for me is just to look at people's stances and especially look at how they changed. It's very hard to play scum and also have good reasons for everything you do. It's not a bingo by any means, but just keep pestering people and look for any cracks that appear.

(I thought I was doing these in the order that I received the likes, but apparently im doing them backwards oops)

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

I think, in general, we need to do less sitting around. People need to not make the rest of town wait an entire phase to hear from them and town needs to just go instead of waiting on them.

In both of the games that happened here, I'm pretty sure town was in trouble because of inaction from everyone in different ways.

~~~~~

Also, just ****ing lynch AtE. It's all null, treat it as null, and please lynch Soup.

 

[Lore]

I think, in general, we need to do less sitting around. People need to not make the rest of town wait an entire phase to hear from them and town needs to just go instead of waiting on them.

In both of the games that happened here, I'm pretty sure town was in trouble because of inaction from everyone in different ways.

~~~~~

Also, just ****ing lynch AtE. It's all null, treat it as null, and please lynch Soup.

Do you think that 72 hour days would help? I worry that it would make the game feel way more pressed for time and also less forgiving of vacations, work issues, etc.

At the same time, no one wants to do anything till deadline and it's annoying as hell.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I’ll give this game a look over when I can.

Looks like a lot of people had fun. Hopefully I can host or join the next one.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Do you think that 72 hour days would help? I worry that it would make the game feel way more pressed for time and also less forgiving of vacations, work issues, etc.

At the same time, no one wants to do anything till deadline and it's annoying as hell.

Yes it would help. Yes it is less forgiving.

 

[Lore]

Yes it would help. Yes it is less forgiving.

Gotcha. I think I'd be cool with jamming this for a game to see how it goes, as long as we are allowed to request extensions in case of rough circumstances. Plus maybe extended days during holiday weekends, or the usual "weekends only count as a half day" rule.

I'd prefer keeping as is, but it's clear that people don't want to be active.

 

[ranmaru]

Whoa, no. I am super against 72 hour days. The original deadline was fine. We all have **** to do. 7 days is the best compromise between long and short. 5 days was already too short for me. If people still don't do **** with 7 days, that is on us.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Whoa, no. I am super against 72 hour days. The original deadline was fine. We all have **** to do. 7 days is the best compromise between long and short. 5 days was already too short for me. If people still don't do **** with 7 days, that is on us.

I mean, it's on those that don't do anything, but there is very little the rest of us can do and I just end up checked out by the end of day 2.

 

[giraffelasergun]

If you're not willing to quit your job and have no other outside commitments, are you really prepared to commit to a mafia game?

 

[#HBC | Kary]

I think, in general, we need to do less sitting around. People need to not make the rest of town wait an entire phase to hear from them and town needs to just go instead of waiting on them.

In both of the games that happened here, I'm pretty sure town was in trouble because of inaction from everyone in different ways.

Nah this seems like a bad take.

I don't think it's fair to compare the two games in terms of activity. Pythag was V/LA at the end of Day 1, that's about it.

The way you're playing recently, it seems like you live for the deadlines, and you're lost when the day goes long. Giving the thread room to breathe, giving people time to catch up, should be part of the game in my opinion. It may not be exciting or to your liking but frankly I feel like the game is a crapshoot with short deadlines. It's not just punishing on people hit with real life, it forces players towards making errors, and your decisions are reduced to gut reads because you don't have time to reconsider.

Town was in trouble this game because the scumteam was stacked and they were robbed of a Day phase.

 

[Lore]

I mean, it's on those that don't do anything, but there is very little the rest of us can do and I just end up checked out by the end of day 2.

Yeah 7 days is a bit much, especially when people refuse to cut it short and lynch pre-deadline.

It was so frustrating last game when everyone was talking about lynching me for several days, with no one following other leads. But no one wanted to pull the trigger. It's like come on, either lynch me or talk about other things instead of wasting time.

Tbh I feel like it's also a bit of a consequence of people being a bit unwilling to stick out their necks and post. People seem to be playing safer and safer each game.

Edit:

Nah this seems like a bad take.

I don't think it's fair to compare the two games in terms of activity. Pythag was V/LA at the end of Day 1, that's about it.

The way you're playing recently, it seems like you live for the deadlines, and you're lost when the day goes long. Giving the thread room to breathe, giving people time to catch up, should be part of the game in my opinion. It may not be exciting or to your liking but frankly I feel like the game is a crapshoot with short deadlines. It's not just punishing on people hit with real life, it forces players towards making errors, and your decisions are reduced to gut reads because you don't have time to reconsider.

Town was in trouble this game because the scumteam was stacked and they were robbed of a Day phase.

This is fair, actually. I do still think that people kinda coast a bit much lately, beyond just this pair of games. But I see and now agree with your point about too-short day lengths.

 

[KevinM]

I’m pretty down for 5-6 day Days.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Nah this seems like a bad take.

I don't think it's fair to compare the two games in terms of activity. Pythag was V/LA at the end of Day 1, that's about it.

The way you're playing recently, it seems like you live for the deadlines, and you're lost when the day goes long. Giving the thread room to breathe, giving people time to catch up, should be part of the game in my opinion. It may not be exciting or to your liking but frankly I feel like the game is a crapshoot with short deadlines. It's not just punishing on people hit with real life, it forces players towards making errors, and your decisions are reduced to gut reads because you don't have time to reconsider.

Town was in trouble this game because the scumteam was stacked and they were robbed of a Day phase.

I think you're high.

Look at this game. There were multiple phases where NO ONE did anything until end of day. The threat of deadline was the only thing that got people doing things. You had that EoD push from Kev D2, the EoD push from Gorf D1 and a deadline extension in the final phase.

Like, I understand work and commitments. I have had them and they can lower your ability to play the game, but for the most part I see people who sign up to play a game and need the threat of deadline in order to make them move.

I do love EoD, but if we're going to spend the middle days of any phase doing nothing, let's just cut them out.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

7 day phases are fine when town is willing to make a lynch actually threatening prior to deadline. That's why I was saying that we need to be willing to move. As scum, I don't have to really give that much of a **** about a wagon on me until we reach deadline and people are just constantly talking about it and not moving toward ending your life. That pressure needs to be brought to bear sooner if we want less games to stagnate and want to keep longer deadlines.

I'd rather deal with players not being able to be as active as they want (in three day phases, I wouldn't be as active as I'd like) than deal with games where I have to wait forty-eight hours to play the game in any meaningful capacity and trying to force it just fills pages and makes it harder for those people to become relevant again.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Yeah, I get it, you're impatient.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

7 day phases are fine when town is willing to make a lynch actually threatening prior to deadline. That's why I was saying that we need to be willing to move. As scum, I don't have to really give that much of a **** about a wagon on me until we reach deadline and people are just constantly talking about it and not moving toward ending your life. That pressure needs to be brought to bear sooner if we want less games to stagnate and want to keep longer deadlines.

I'd rather deal with players not being able to be as active as they want (in three day phases, I wouldn't be as active as I'd like) than deal with games where I have to wait forty-eight hours to play the game in any meaningful capacity and trying to force it just fills pages and makes it harder for those people to become relevant again.

this is probably the best argument in favor of shorter Days.

ive played games with as short as 24 and 36 hour Days, and theyre a lot of fun. theyre not for everyone, but theyre a lot of fun. and what ryker says about the threat of lynch is true. in those shorter games, a lynch can essentially happen whenever if theres enough support behind it. but in longer Days where people feel less pressure to make dynamic plays, it lessens the threat of a wagon and can make things stale. but i think its just a consequence to take with the benefits of longer Days: more time to reflect and take the thread in. they both have their place imo though

 

[#HBC | marshy]

damn yall really left me for some final fantasy girls smh

 

[KevinM]

Marshy just get back on the rapper wagon like we used to with Watch The Throne, I’ll never leave you.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

That was me, you ****.

 

[Lore]

Tbh I'm mostly on the side that says that 3 is a bit too short but our current length is too long. I feel like Kary is right that too-short Days would be an issue, and 3 days (having never done a 3-day Day game) feels to my gut like it'd be too short.

Maybe 4 days?

 

[giraffelasergun]

Tbh I'm mostly on the side that says that 3 is a bit too short but our current length is too long. I feel like Kary is right that too-short Days would be an issue, and 3 days (having never done a 3-day Day game) feels to my gut like it'd be too short.

Maybe 4 days?

This game had 4 day day phases, so if you felt like the day phases were too long in this game you might prefer shorter phases. My Mafia Academia was 2 day day phases, but we also mostly made lynches in the last 4 hours in that game.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

This game had 4 day day phases, so if you felt like the day phases were too long in this game you might prefer shorter phases. My Mafia Academia was 2 day day phases, but we also mostly made lynches in the last 4 hours in that game.

DGames is generally an EoD group during my tenure.

I've played a lot of various length phases in a lot of groups. I don't think we actually need to go toward such short phases (though 5 is the upper limit of what I'll join, personally). I just think we need to act as town.

 

[ranmaru]

I think for a reunion game a longer day phase is better since we are used to that. A lynch can happen at any time, we don't have to wait until twilight hours to quick lynch mother****ers. We should have quick lynched soup tbh. All waiting did was make us change our minds on soup.

 

[ranmaru]

damn yall really left me for some final fantasy girls smh

rep one piece with me homie

 

[Lore]

This game had 4 day day phases, so if you felt like the day phases were too long in this game you might prefer shorter phases. My Mafia Academia was 2 day day phases, but we also mostly made lynches in the last 4 hours in that game.

Huh, weird. I was remembering this game as 5 and Mafia Academia as 4. Thanks brain.

In that case 3 sounds fine to me at least.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Huh, weird. I was remembering this game as 5 and Mafia Academia as 4. Thanks brain.

In that case 3 sounds fine to me at least.

You'd be fine. It would cut into other people's contribution.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

my endgame post:

So... I think, for the most part, all factions played pretty well, but this is just some small nitpicks and other stuff I noticed that I already went on about in the dead PM (which everyone's able to ignore and I won't be offended since I'm far more a mod than I am a player):

1. Vote Count Analysis - I don't know why everyone ignored this one? Don't know if it's not common place around here. VCA on it's own (just throwing the colors of dead players) doesn't do much, but tying it up to reasons on why people voted is a good thing.

2. Re-Evaluating Reads - Gorf actually had a game plan around this so I can't even fault him; every major town player died a day earlier than they should have (good on scum, honestly) for them to make their proper play. That said, I feel like Ryker's flip should've been a sign that everything you know is not necessarily true

3. Save overthinking for your role PM - Pythag got lynched off of wishy-washiness: town overthinking can really damage a town. there's a time and a place for overthinking: a role PM

4. Role Analysis - I don't think Ryker would've been lynched the day you could have questioned him, but when he asked for a vig claim, it's important as town to note what's in the setup and what's not in the setup. What are the benefits to claiming? What are the disadvantages of claiming? Who would benefit the most from a claim? In the case of the Vig, that would've served to kill and/or roleblock (which, they did have a roleblocker!) the only vig left. I've said before that I caught scum in Pick your Poison purely because of this (though, that's PyP). KevinM did good by not claiming, but when the setup's open (or semi), take advantage of that.

5. Don't let the thread die - I think Ryker and I are in agreement on this one.

---

Everyone played pretty well; nobody should be expected to play perfectly and we're all condone to human error. I think the Scum did a fantastic job directing their Nightkills towards town leaders (I think if Kary, Gorf, and Tom had an extra day to live, they would've figured it out or got close) - They killed the town leaders at the necessary time and Ryker/Marshy did a pretty good job taking control of the Town and it's lynches. Town did a pretty good job trying to pick up the pieces and question stuff - I think ya'll got a lot correct in separate doses (FF's Ryker push was hella good, but unfortunately didn't go as planned) but town's leaders died too early and by the time MyLo came around, the teamwork was too fractured to lead a lynch on Marshy.

I was hoping for a longer/wall of MyLo post but the game had so many pages that it's hard to catch up on everything. By endgame you're just wanting to get stuff over so I can't even blame KevinM for not asking Marshy and Pythag to dance more; I would've done similar in his shoes, probably.

 

[#HBC | marshy]

i guess karebears in charge of the avatar memes now

swag

 

[Pythag]

Thirdkoopa what do you mean save overthinking for the role pm? That makes no sense to me

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

I don't like playing scum btw. The message I wrote after I died was just me relieving guilt in a way. I didn't like seeing people so frustrated because of something I did even if it's a measure taken for a different wincon.

 

[ranmaru]

Thirdkoopa what do you mean save overthinking for the role pm? That makes no sense to me

I think he means that image is important to townies just as much as it is to scum. This is a problem for me too, but yeah I guess doing less of that will get you less flack.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

I'd like to play the next one and I promise I won't be a petulant ****head. This game feels like a pyhrric victory because looking back at myself and some of my outbursts I realize how much better I could've done. Maybe my tactics got me another day, pushed Ryker/Marshy forward some more, but I could've handled it better. I think that Ryker/Marshy being able to handle me in the way he did is more telling than me pretending to piss myself. Shoutouts to them and they get all the credit for winning this game, there's no way I would've gotten away with half of the things I did without them. We were always talking about our next moves and the like and that aspect I did greatly enjoy, so props to them for being such good mates.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Thirdkoopa what do you mean save overthinking for the role pm? That makes no sense to me

overthinking goes into your role PM. you put notes in there. Especially if you've got a crackpot theory that scum could take advantage of

I think he means that image is important to townies just as much as it is to scum. This is a problem for me too, but yeah I guess doing less of that will get you less flack.

^ Dying does matter less, but it still matters. If you and Pythag did a little better than that, scum would've had a harder time leading a lynch

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

I'm assuming the meme right now is best final fantasy girl and why yes it is Rydia thanks for asking

 

[#HBC | marshy]

in the first game, all of town were sucking on mac and my balls

kill gorf every game so he doesnt get to say this if/when hes scum