Whose Mafia Is it Anyway - Game Over!

[KevinM]

I implore the thread to go find me 3 SOLID stances Pythag has taken that you agree with.

 

[KevinM]

Hell find 3 solid stances

 

[KevinM]

Also Pythag in 3 pages me and Ryker have gone from your hardest town read, to me being your scum read on the slightest pressure, is this OMGUS or are you truly just incapable of taking a stance and sticking to your gun on it

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

I don't know that I could find three solid stances, but there's no world where I want to find myself in possible LyLo with Ranmaru.

 

[KevinM]

If Pythag flipped town are you sold that Ran is scum 100%?

 

[Pythag]

Yeah it’s pretty great that way i can get rid of the last slot that hasn’t taken a stance the entire game and is hard to read because instead of playing like a townie they’ve just listed everything as null or avoided questions; and then just win the game toMorrow. It’s p sweet imo

Do you expect me to have a hard stance on soup's meta when I've never played with him before? D1 and D2 was all Soup/Lore

A lot of argumentation I saw was based on his meta. I've never played with him and I'm hesitant to lynch an Uncc'd pr, especially an oracle, who would only be useful after D1.

Next day was gridlocked, mechanically I didn't see a way to learn anything new except to lynch soup, if he was pr or mafia. I stuck on that, and shored up my conviction. I was fine to see him go. I thought we'd solve you, but he was mafia i

I was convinced that Lore was town.

Also Pythag in 3 pages me and Ryker have gone from your hardest town read, to me being your scum read on the slightest pressure, is this OMGUS or are you truly just incapable of taking a stance and sticking to your gun on it

I don't recall you voting for me. And I don't recall much pressure being exerted from you. Here's what I found :

Ryker I’m willing to go Pythag as well. I hate this Ran slot so much but I’m just dizzy on it

but I like this one too :

I mean I’ve actively voiced I’ve hated Rans slot but I think my biggest problem with this game is I legit don’t have a town lean for the most part and it’s making the game remarkable hard to play. It just goes from like null to scum and with Tom not around it’s so lonely.

Which is an interesting quote, you claim you don't have any town reads, yet...

Yeah it’s pretty great that way i can get rid of the last slot that hasn’t taken a stance the entire game and is hard to read because instead of playing like a townie they’ve just listed everything as null or avoided questions; and then just win the game toMorrow. It’s p sweet imo

Huh. show me a question I've avoided, because evidently you're having the same difficulty as me wrt: reads,


If I was OMGUSing wouldn't I have buckled under marshy's vote if I was so fragile?

D2 I was reading you as town, which is why I laid down some initial reads at D3.

When you and Ryker disagreed, that pinged me, so I reread. Ryker/Fanny benefited, you didn't.

I find it interesting that you have taken very solid stances™, yet never done anything with them. Soup? Fanny? Ran?

You jumped off of soup for Lore, despite you HATING ran's slot.
You've claimed Fanny is a bingo, and just...expect us to believe it as you keep repeating that.
Ran is probably the longest slot you've hated.

and here you are trying to wagon me.

So here's Kevin's case on me as far as I can tell:

No strong stances™ (until now)
No consistent reads
Avoids questions (tbd)

Kevn has also demonstrated :
KevinM has no willingness to act on his strong stances™
KevinM has no town reads
KevinM is actively pushing against his strongest scumreads.


Get's the ol' noggin joggin.

 

[KevinM]

Actively pushing against my strongest scum reads except the fact that I stayed on Soup D1, started a counter wagon to get town to do something D2 and now am pushing you because you haven't played to help out town in 3 days.

 

[KevinM]

1) how strongly do we feel that there is scum between soup and lore?

um, not the strongest.
If there's scum it's soup.

I do not think lore is scum.

my thoughts on soup :

soup is a coin flip, because I get what he's saying. But, it's really hard when I see other members say : 'not falling for it' remembering old games that I haven't played. I resonate with his defenses, but that can easily be hand waved away with 'soup always does AtE, which makes me feel like a big ol' dummy for believing him.

soup hasn't been playing in the most pro town way from my view
soup has also seemingly turned on an emotional dime.
I can't figure out if this is pandering or just him matching the tone of whomever he is speaking to - see > responds to anger and sarcasm much more biting, but actually had a conversation with me, and I was one of his scum reads.

AT THE SAME TIME, at least from my reading, a lot of conversation has been treating soup like he's no doubt an oracle. And there is somehow the idea that 'soup is definitely scummy' right in tandem with 'soup is definitely oracle.' This confuses the heck out of me. Consider me bamboozled.


So here's the question then :
"ok Pythag if Orange, Lore, and Soup are all town though, where's scum?"

uhhh, here's my thoughts on each person, I guess if they were scum :

scum!fanny? Most of his interactions appear to be going after easy targets, with a majority of his discussions being with soup, lore, orange and me. Is His hammer vote and asking Ryker (at least at that point a more trusted townie) could be seen as an appeal to authority.

scum!Kevin hitting us with the hot reads, that at least as a more inexperienced player, it's intimidating. BUT
he certainly wouldn't want a legit oracle to be voted on, and I think right now he's pushing for a lore wagon to compete with soup.

if either of those are a possibility, would a scum!Kevin be setting up a bus of scum!fanny? He's mentioned that Fanny's a bingo at least twice now.
I don't think Fanny hasn't engaged in this, (though feel free to point it to me to the quote) yet fanny did engage with me when I was sniffing around with a gut read.

Scum!marshy? he did vote for soup D1. Wouldn't you give an oracle claim 1 day to seer someone? Expressed doubts or anticipated regret at soup flipping oracle.

imo, If an oracle is outed, I literally think the town is going to have to kill it. I don't think mafia would give that read to town for free. soup town flip any day honestly makes everyone on the D1 lynch look terrible in my eyes.

Scum!Tom? His EoD seems to be his most damning evidence, or early play D1. I actually feel great affinity with this though, because I feel similarly confused, and there's hesitation as I want to make the right call.

Scum!Gorf? It's hard to get scum reads on someone who has an affinity with the all seeing eye. The only way I see this is him being a manipulator and knowing how to get town on his side. I don't think Gorf would strong arm people, in fact I think he would scum hunt (although he Ascended against JTB and it was kind of a nothing post) He's been tilting his hand "if i were scum I would 'blah blah blah' which is either true, or he's trying to play to weaker townies.

Scum!Ryker? If he's scum then he's letting town give themselves enough rope so he can come in, tell everyone they're dumb for not seeing the true scum play, and then hanging them with it.

Scum!FF? He has been not as active, while there was an extreme lack of info. Is it scummy to come in the last day and blow up the game?

I meant it when I said I feel the game is gridlocked, because right now so much depends on soup. From my perspective he almost has to be the play.

2) how strongly do we feel about the possibility that theyre both scum
I really don't think this is the case.

@Tom

I literally feel this about Gorf.

If it helps this is the post that I think is the beginning of the all grime on deck alert that you've started.

Look how he asked you who's scum and instead of giving him whos scum you played this weak **** of "Heres why any person in the game could be scum"

You wrote a novel about nothing.

 

[KevinM]

You also wishy washied the first question hard as hell also.

You haven't taken a stance all game worth a damn until this wagon looked like it could shift to you.

And even your case is just whataboutisms.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Fandangox(1): Gorf
Ranmaru(3): Fandangox, Marshy, Ryker
Marshy(1): Ranmaru
KevinM(1): Pythag
Pythag(1): KevinM

With 7 alive it takes 4 to lynch. Deadline is at 9 Eastern / 8 Central / 7 Mountain 6 / Pacific on Wednesday.

(Basically, deadline is in an hour)

 

[Pythag]

Actively pushing against my strongest scum reads except the fact that I stayed on Soup D1, started a counter wagon to get town to do something D2 and now am pushing you because you haven't played to help out town in 3 days.

My perspective :
Kevin D1 : Soup is my #1
Soup :: lives to D2
Kevin D2 : I'm voting Lore for town's benefit. Despite 3(?) other scum reads.
Didn't y'all run tom up and down for voting against his scum read?

You also wishy washied the first question hard as hell also.

You haven't taken a stance all game worth a damn until this wagon looked like it could shift to you.

And even your case is just whataboutisms.

I addressed the wishywashyness, which is why I posted late in that day. I KNEW it was wishywashy, you're act like I was delighted to be stuck.
which, by the way, even in that state, I stuck to my convictions that lore wasn't scum, and voted soup.

You're rebuttal has been these aloof...whatever statements, and you're shifting talking about yourself, and rather just casting shade.

you're trying to handwave away something that I have found sincerely scummy

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

tfw all your townreads are scumreading the guy youve been noobtown reading all game

 

[Fandangox]

Do you expect me to have a hard stance on soup's meta when I've never played with him before? D1 and D2 was all Soup/Lore

A lot of argumentation I saw was based on his meta. I've never played with him and I'm hesitant to lynch an Uncc'd pr, especially an oracle, who would only be useful after D1.

Next day was gridlocked, mechanically I didn't see a way to learn anything new except to lynch soup, if he was pr or mafia. I stuck on that, and shored up my conviction. I was fine to see him go. I thought we'd solve you, but he was mafia i
.

No, the argument about Soup meta was that its null, we repeatedly stated this, and Im sure you even acknowledged it at some point, the main argument after Soup's explosion is that he was just not willing to play ball nor scumhunt at all.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

getting ****ed up going into eod whos tryna party

 

[Fandangox]

tfw all your townreads are scumreading the guy youve been noobtown reading all game

Have your thoughts on Pythag changed at all this phase from your #2,226 ? What do you think of his constantly changing reads.

 

[Pythag]

getting ****ed up going into eod whos tryna party

Right there with ya.

No, the argument about Soup meta was that its null, we repeatedly stated this, and Im sure you even acknowledged it at some point, the main argument after Soup's explosion is that he was just not willing to play ball nor scumhunt at all.

Here's my perspective though, anytime soup posted, dude got lambasted.
You don't think you'd lose some heart?

like I agreed at the time when he was like 'people are being hard on me'
I'll accept my naiveté, as you all proved to be correct and I was wrong, but as someone hindered by my lack of play with him, I sympathized.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Have your thoughts on Pythag changed at all this phase from your #2,226 ? What do you think of his constantly changing reads.

yes

i think his constantly changing reads are less impactful to my opinion on him than the fact that his modus operandi has really been focused on trying to play the field to develop reads, and that he pussyfoots around actually putting reads out there and trying to promote reads/get his shoes dirty. its like 90% of his play is either being in a state or uncertainty or asking usually alright but mostly unimpactful questions.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

but i still find myself often reading posts or segments of posts of his and that corner of my brain that reads him as hard noobtown cant shut up. this isnt a big pillar stopping me from scumreading him but i see so many similarities from this game to last (he was town i was scum) where i wanted to wagon him because he made it easy. and i see so much of that timid noobtown vibe here.

that being said with how toDay has unfolded im further understanding the grievances against him. but i still feel stronger about scum!ran so i wanna proceed with that if its between the two.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

i will hammer by 8:50 if ran has yet to be

 

[Fandangox]

but i still find myself often reading posts or segments of posts of his and that corner of my brain that reads him as hard noobtown cant shut up. this isnt a big pillar stopping me from scumreading him but i see so many similarities from this game to last (he was town i was scum) where i wanted to wagon him because he made it easy. and i see so much of that timid noobtown vibe here.

that being said with how toDay has unfolded im further understanding the grievances against him. but i still feel stronger about scum!ran so i wanna proceed with that if its between the two.

How were the similarities? Was he also changing stances, backing down when pushed? Anything in specific in this game at this point that reminds you of his townplay there?

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

How were the similarities? Was he also changing stances, backing down when pushed? Anything in specific in this game at this point that reminds you of his townplay there?

it mostly has to do with tone. through most of d1 in the first game he seemed like he was confused or behind pace of the thread (it had a lot of ever changing wagons) and would throw out questions that sometimes seemed arbitrary. if im not mistaken one or two of my scummates had called him out on it, probably trying to see if it would swing momentum for a wagon. i didnt wanna touch it because i couldnt think of a safe approach on, but his tone struck as really earnest despite being seemingly lost. thats why when you and soup were shading him d1/d2 it pinged me super hard as what it looked like from my scum perspective when pythag was town, and in reality, i was right when it came to soup. he never had a particularly strong thread presence.

thats about all i can really give you with the deadline closing in, and i wish i had done the digging in the previous game when i had originally iso'd pythag to draw similarities. i hold less credence to the meta being a tell for me at this point with how easy it is to notice he hasnt really made a concrete stance on somebody being scum aside from orange mid d1 (which was badly substantiated) and eod1 (which was really too little to late at that point for it to matter). that is until he was pushed to doing it toDay.

 

[ranmaru]

I will not self hammer. Still think Ryker and Marshy are scum.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

if youre town, man, i wish you tried.

 

[ranmaru]

Sorry Gorf.

 

[Fandangox]

I will not self hammer. Still think Ryker and Marshy are scum.

Ok, but what are we supposed to do with this? You still haven't really gone and explained why in-depth, You haven't answered Marshy's and I questions yet

 

[ranmaru]

I was too lazy to answer at this point. That is it.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

unvote

vote: ranmaru

 

[ranmaru]

Apologies for my bad play, good luck. I think this is my last game. There are still two mafia left.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

fuuuuck man

 

[giraffelasergun]

Ranmaru, Ralph Macchio Town Vanilla Townie, has been lynched! It is now Night 3. Night 3 ends at 8 PM Central 7/18/19

 

[ranmaru]

If I pushed soup D1 and lynched him you would see a different Ran. Plus I was overwhelmed with other things outside the game and I became lazy. Again, my bad and sorry for leaving it to y'all.

 

[giraffelasergun]

#HBC | Gorf , Tony Hawk, Town Vanilla Townie, has been killed in the night.

#HBC | Ryker Aisha Tyler, Mafia Role Blocker, has been killed in the night.

It is now Day 4. Day 4 ends on Monday 7/22 at 8 PM central.

#HBC | marshy KevinM Pythag Fandangox

 

[giraffelasergun]

With 4 alive, it takes 3 to lynch.

Ryker and Gorf may make one short bah post if they would like.

 

[#HBC | marshy]

vig claim

you claim then we lynch one and shoot the other, game is auto lock for town

 

[KevinM]

I’m vig sup no votes until I’m back from the soccer game

 

[KevinM]

Made a couple references to it on D1 with talking about the strap multiple times if you’re inclined to look back

 

[KevinM]

Also fwiw i was going to shoot lore N1 but missed the deadline at a fatty party, figured winning the game this way would be way more exciting

 

[#HBC | marshy]

I’m vig sup no votes until I’m back from the soccer game

swag

mah ****in boi

i was dreading coming into this dayphase but that flip has me feelin good. lookin thru **** now

 

[KevinM]

Same, this is LYLO by the way. I’m a two shot vig

 

[#HBC | marshy]

this means ryker spent the whole game bussing soup

lmao

what a lil *****