Whose Mafia Is it Anyway - Game Over!

[giraffelasergun]

Fandangox(1): Gorf
Ranmaru(2): Fandangox, Marshy

Not Voting: KevinM, Pythag, Ryker, Ranmaru

With 7 alive it takes 4 to lynch. Deadline is at 9 Eastern / 8 Central / 7 Mountain 6 / Pacific on Wednesday.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

ryker do you actually want a post from me on fandangox because you want to see my perspective and because you have a chance to be convinced that fandangox's play is bad, or is it not that and is there another reason? if the former, what do you think of what i have posted about fandangox being scummy so far toDay? you dont need to do a point-by-point breakdown but is there anything more than just "i dont remember it like that so youll have to show me in an analysis like youve done for jtb, lore and pythag?"

im gonna do that analysis no matter what youre thinking. but i just want to know what your end goal is here (unless you dont wanna say it in which case... oh well youre gonna get the analysis anyway lmao)

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

its really jarring to see that two votes on ran is l2. but so far im pretty good with ran if not fandangox for toDay. his lack of presence so far is a really bad look

 

[#HBC | marshy]

Marshy can you elaborate on the stiffness?

i think ran literally may hav never been mislynched as town on this site

the reason for that is how active/enthusiastic he is when hes town. you saw glimpses of that last game where he posted a lot and drove discussion forward. hes got a passion, fire to him that he has difficulty replicating when hes scum

when i say stiff i mean i havent seen that passion here. the closest we got was the soup defense which im not about to townread for obvious reasons. for anyone whos curious id advise you to go to rans profile page, pull up his posts, and ask yourself if hes really "hungry" to scumhunt with any of his pushes or ideas. hes felt like hes been going thru the motions. he mentioned wanting to hav dialed it back this game but i just dont buy that he does so for this long especially given the situation

 

[KevinM]

I mean I’ve actively voiced I’ve hated Rans slot but I think my biggest problem with this game is I legit don’t have a town lean for the most part and it’s making the game remarkable hard to play. It just goes from like null to scum and with Tom not around it’s so lonely.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

ryker do you actually want a post from me on fandangox because you want to see my perspective and because you have a chance to be convinced that fandangox's play is bad, or is it not that and is there another reason? if the former, what do you think of what i have posted about fandangox being scummy so far toDay? you dont need to do a point-by-point breakdown but is there anything more than just "i dont remember it like that so youll have to show me in an analysis like youve done for jtb, lore and pythag?"

im gonna do that analysis no matter what youre thinking. but i just want to know what your end goal is here (unless you dont wanna say it in which case... oh well youre gonna get the analysis anyway lmao)

I've seen what you posted. I understand your take and where it diverges from mine. What I want from you is a link to the context so I can read it and decide if I'm wrong. Either give me all the posts or link me to a starting point so I know where exactly at the EoD you're looking.

I do actually want you to describe your issue with his initial vote because that I just don't recall.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

My end goal is to solve it, but I'm really lazy and don't want to read the entire thread and do it myself.

 

[KevinM]

Big vibe, whole ass vibe

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

i gotchu dawg

 

[KevinM]

Mods can we prod Ryker again?

 

[Pythag]

i think ran literally may hav never been mislynched as town on this site

the reason for that is how active/enthusiastic he is when hes town. you saw glimpses of that last game where he posted a lot and drove discussion forward. hes got a passion, fire to him that he has difficulty replicating when hes scum

when i say stiff i mean i havent seen that passion here. the closest we got was the soup defense which im not about to townread for obvious reasons. for anyone whos curious id advise you to go to rans profile page, pull up his posts, and ask yourself if hes really "hungry" to scumhunt with any of his pushes or ideas. hes felt like hes been going thru the motions. he mentioned wanting to hav dialed it back this game but i just dont buy that he does so for this long especially given the situation

This catches me up, it also reveals to me I'm forgetting that he was getting away with a lot from others D1 because his excuse of new style, and I'm seeing the scales fall from your eyes in this regard. Thanks.

Also it lines up with what Kevin's been seeing :

Hate everything the slot has produced and think their stance flipping is disingenuous: Ranmaru

But I'll ask this as well:

KevinM ruined my bingo card, do you make anything out of that?

 

[ranmaru]

I have lost motivation, mostly. Partly for being wrong on Soup, and knowing I am in this low position this game due to my playstyle. Plus I was busy with eimm stuff and didn't get time to do a thorough read.

Honestly don't care if I am lynched right now, but before you all do I have to ask to give me time to do one thorough read over and make sure I put out a reads list. Plus my lynch will be good for information anyway. When is deadline?

 

[ranmaru]

Also died in eimm so I shall take some time to respond to people tomorrow.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

I have lost motivation, mostly. Partly for being wrong on Soup, and knowing I am in this low position this game due to my playstyle. Plus I was busy with eimm stuff and didn't get time to do a thorough read.

Honestly don't care if I am lynched right now, but before you all do I have to ask to give me time to do one thorough read over and make sure I put out a reads list. Plus my lynch will be good for information anyway. When is deadline?

wednesday 8 PST

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

FANDANGOX LEADING TO HIS INITIAL SOUP VOTE

Spoiler

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

FANDANGOX POST SOUP ORACLE CLAIM, LEADING TO HIS UNVOTE AND EOD1

Spoiler

 

[#HBC | marshy]

KevinM ruined my bingo card, do you make anything out of that?

i cant say definitively rn. i hav ideas that im not sure would b useful to state aloud

kevin, pythag, ryker, ran, where do yall wanna go today?

i am tired of no one playing the game until deadline. i would kill everybody but me/fanny/gorf if i could

 

[Pythag]

Current wagon looks to be Ran v Fanny

Honestly I feel locked again, as I'm trying to figure out if Kevin V Ryker is tvt or tvs. To have such opposite opinions is interesting.
They both had good wagon placement (save for kevin EoD yesterday)

Ryker called soup open mafia eaaaaarly on.
And i think Kevin sheeped him on that.

But once again I know these players will bus the crap out of scum if they're mafia.

Does Ran rolling over toDay mean anything? scum tell? wagonee going inactive?

#HBC | Ryker Why is Gorf's case on fanny wrong?

Gorf's case makes it look like Fanny's playing off soup wagon while wanting to go anywhere but soup.
What do you see that's different.

 

[KevinM]

i cant say definitively rn. i hav ideas that im not sure would b useful to state aloud

kevin, pythag, ryker, ran, where do yall wanna go today?

i am tired of no one playing the game until deadline. i would kill everybody but me/fanny/gorf if i could

I’m down to lynch one of Ryker/Ran/Fan

Leaning towards Fan

 

[KevinM]

Pythag who’s your biggest town read? Biggest scum read. I know you posted a reads list but I’m just curious those positions you have

 

[Pythag]

Pythag who’s your biggest town read? Biggest scum read. I know you posted a reads list but I’m just curious those positions you have

Currently my biggest town read is marshy.


I had Ran as null,
I can’t figure out fanny, him pressuring me while marshy had his vote on me actually fits with what you’ve said about him being opportunistic.

Yet on a reread I can see where Ryker’s head is at, and Fanny is like always there too (EoD1 excluded, Gorf)

That’s why I’m trying to figure out you and Ryker.

If you’re tvt, then I think scum is ran, Gorf, or Fanny.

 

[Pythag]

Right now I’m trying to figure out if marshy is worth following on Ran, or if ran is truly that messed up for being wrong on soup.

I mean I was “wrong on soup” on D1 for taking his claim seriously, but I’m not necessarily zoned out because of it.

Fanny has cast some doubt to me about Gorf by stating that “Gorf townreading someone is a scum tell”

So I feel like there’s a house of cards here and I don’t see the Lynchpin

 

[#HBC | marshy]

i do want ran to get in here n give his insight ranmaru

 

[ranmaru]

I'm going to re-read the thread in a few hours. Before that, the stance is still Ryker and Marshy. I don't think that will likely change with a re-read, but I'll give my overall thoughts on everyone.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Gorf's case makes it look like Fanny's playing off soup wagon while wanting to go anywhere but soup.
What do you see that's different.

more that fanny left himself a fair amount of outs to be able to go ways that werent soup if the opportunity presented itself and he wanted to. i cant say that he WAS trying to get out of the soup wagon

 

[Pythag]

more that fanny left himself a fair amount of outs to be able to go ways that werent soup if the opportunity presented itself and he wanted to. i cant say that he WAS trying to get out of the soup wagon

Yes but in that idea, his vote on orange would kinda solidify that he wanted out of the soup wagon.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

#HBC | Ryker Why is Gorf's case on fanny wrong?

I've been asking for a case the entire phase to talk about it, lmfao.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Yes but in that idea, his vote on orange would kinda solidify that he wanted out of the soup wagon.

kinda. but i dont wanna subscribe to that necessarily because, in reality, the actual voting of orange was kind of necessary to ensure a d1 lynch. it was like right at deadline. im more interested in how he unvoted soup before that

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Ok, I read it all.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

On Initial Vote

I disagree still. I don't have a problem with it. Fanny's insistence on getting a reads list was the reason I didn't feel the need to hound him for the same thing and him doing it and proving that Soup was HELLA not gonna actually play the game was a major reason I found him scummy all the way through D2. Soup was unwilling to do ****. Pushing around Lore and other slots early on is a plus, not a minus, because God knows that slot looked disgusting. I nearly voted Lore because that vote was so grimy.

On Everything Post Vote

We're going to go into a couple things I agree with. First, I forgot the EoD jump on Soup because he voted for Lore over Spak. I'll concede that that is weird as **** during his EoD.

His timing on why didn't he push this earlier is strange to me and I want to know why you hold Fanny, someone I would classify as a weaker and more background player, to that standard and not Big **** Kev. I don't necessarily disagree with your analysis that it's strange he didn't do more in that interim. I just want to know what makes EoD1 Fanny different from EoD2 Kev in this regard.

I don't really have things I disagree with, only things I weigh more. It felt like Fanny was doing what I was doing and looking around at EoD because it looked like it wasn't happening and there WERE other valuable things to do. That makes the fact that he wasn't trying harder to see if Lore had support look worse. This results in a scenario where he does look to have built himself a lot of outs and I can't say he wasn't doing that, but it looks more likely to me that he was on Soup for the right reasons. He was one of the ones that helped push it to a claim and he's one of the ones who has helped me punch it through people who wanted to give Soup benefit of the doubt for AtE and claim.



I feel better about that push than I did and I understand it more, but I still don't agree.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

At the moment, I'm looking at Ran/Pythag as my scum. Kev is my third choice at the moment.

Ryker
Marshy/Fanny
Gorf
Kev
Ran/Pythag

 

[KevinM]

Ryker I’m willing to go Pythag as well. I hate this Ran slot so much but I’m just dizzy on it

 

[KevinM]

Also hate how you’re seeing Fanny I’m telling you it’s a bingo since when have you ever needed more from me

 

[giraffelasergun]

Fandangox has been prodded!

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

His timing on why didn't he push this earlier is strange to me and I want to know why you hold Fanny, someone I would classify as a weaker and more background player, to that standard and not Big **** Kev.

eod2 kev, honestly, does not ring like someone who was seriously considering the idea that not-soup was going to happen. i feel like theres enough reasonable doubt through the rest of his d2 play for me to feel like his trying to make a lore wagon was not something he cared heavy for. **** he dropped the lore vote and did absolutely nothing with it, he went to fandangox and delved further on his read on him. so i read it is wholly null.

fannys treatment of soup is not how he was displayed treating players he was also pursuing at the same time before the vote. fanny made pushes and asked questions and was involved with other slots early game, but with soup it just felt inserted in. when pg 18-28 or whatever happened he looked like someone who was ready to pull in for a soup lynch till eod EVENTUALLY, and he just... didnt. he coasted for a bulk of 18-28, and then came in further to the end. his straw that broke the camels back is super dumb, and he just built that all up just to unvote on the next page. i see that kevin put his vote on a slot he didnt care about pushing because the competing wagon was assured dead. fanny had the opportunity to make a last push at the soup wagon, and his tone at the time made it look like he was gonna do it. he built up to it. and just didnt.

fair enough if this is just something you weigh and value differently though.

 

[Fandangox]

#HBC | Gorf I read your expanded case and a lot of it is you just narrating my play without a lot of your own insight on why it is REALLY scummy of me to do those things.

Me asking for a soup read didn't happen on a vacuum, I asked specifically cause he said he disagreed on Tom's list.

Yeah I mostly ignored the Spak wagon, but because for me the slot didn't do anything that seemed scummy to me and like I already said, Lore vs Soup was happening, you can go back and any other game I've been in, I tend to leave slots I don't find anything wrong with alone for the most part and I focus on where I think the scum is, it has worked out well for me so far, with the exception of the previous game I played where I tunneled town nabe all game.

"he later goes on to state that he had less reason to townread lore, so he didnt wanna support the orange wagon if he can help it. thats... pretty standard procedure in that scenario honestly. if youre a wagonee and there are two other wagonees, keep your vote off of your stronger townread. but this concept is confusing to fandangox."

Again, he says he was townreading both, and then of course says he voted the other wagonee for self-preservation, which of course is bull**** from my PoV cause he voted the wagon with less votes, that's not gonna help push the other wagon over his. I don't even understand why this is a point in your case, we know Soup is scum and thus on a re-read we can see it for the bull**** that it was.

And I already explained why I unvoted soup and went to consider the other two wagons at that point in the game.

 

[Fandangox]

Pythag you still haven't told me why your read on me changed.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

#HBC | Gorf I read your expanded case and a lot of it is you just narrating my play without a lot of your own insight on why it is REALLY scummy of me to do those things.

a lot of it is narrating the play in order to illustrate the point in the game, yes, but i disagree that theres not a lot of insight on why what you did was really scummy (especially because this is just an expansion of what ive said so far).

Me asking for a soup read didn't happen on a vacuum, I asked specifically cause he said he disagreed on Tom's list.

i know you didnt ask for a read in a vacuum, and i even said that your initial asking of who he thinks is town and scum is a pretty good look. but its the fact that your engagement with soup seemed really distant especially compared to other slots you found scummy/were interacting with (lore, pythag) at the time.

Yeah I mostly ignored the Spak wagon, but because for me the slot didn't do anything that seemed scummy to me and like I already said, Lore vs Soup was happening, you can go back and any other game I've been in, I tend to leave slots I don't find anything wrong with alone for the most part and I focus on where I think the scum is, it has worked out well for me so far, with the exception of the previous game I played where I tunneled town nabe all game.

this isnt really a big argument of mine, more of a hairpin compared to other points i have. your lack of engagement till very close to the end of deadline is questionable but i dont doubt the idea that you, as town, would have your focus elsewhere in spite of orange wagon gaining momentum. i mean i pretty much did that with lore for a while.

"he later goes on to state that he had less reason to townread lore, so he didnt wanna support the orange wagon if he can help it. thats... pretty standard procedure in that scenario honestly. if youre a wagonee and there are two other wagonees, keep your vote off of your stronger townread. but this concept is confusing to fandangox."

Again, he says he was townreading both, and then of course says he voted the other wagonee for self-preservation, which of course is bull**** from my PoV cause he voted the wagon with less votes, that's not gonna help push the other wagon over his. I don't even understand why this is a point in your case, we know Soup is scum and thus on a re-read we can see it for the bull**** that it was.

fandangox. are you seriously going to tell me that if you are town and you are being wagoned hard, and there are two other players that have high vocal support for their wagon (with a pretty volatile state with voting and wagons, which it was), you are not going to put your vote on the player you find to be less townie in case support pulls that way?

its a point in my case because at the time we didnt know soup was scum. you had plenty of places and opportunity to buckle down on and direct your voice more squarely on lynching soup (rather than splitting your outlook, pursuing other players during that relatively critical time). there were a good couple of places from when you voted soup to when you unvoted that looked like enough reason to get you to push hard at soup. but this was the thing that made you really be okay with soup dying?

And I already explained why I unvoted soup and went to consider the other two wagons at that point in the game.

and its a moot point between us not but the fact that you felt so strongly about the self preservation thing and dont try to make a last push for soup is still a bad look to me.

 

[Fandangox]

fandangox. are you seriously going to tell me that if you are town and you are being wagoned hard, and there are two other players that have high vocal support for their wagon (with a pretty volatile state with voting and wagons, which it was), you are not going to put your vote on the player you find to be less townie in case support pulls that way?

its a point in my case because at the time we didnt know soup was scum. you had plenty of places and opportunity to buckle down on and direct your voice more squarely on lynching soup (rather than splitting your outlook, pursuing other players during that relatively critical time). there were a good couple of places from when you voted soup to when you unvoted that looked like enough reason to get you to push hard at soup. but this was the thing that made you really be okay with soup dying?

In such a hypothetical scenario on D1 I would at least try to make a push and try to convince town why its better to lynch the person Im scumreading, but Soup didn't really say anything aside from admitting to it just being self preservation and having us just go off the two players he said he was townreading.

Yeah unvoting was a mistake, and I should have pushed for it, but I already said I didn't think the town was just gonna flock to Soup again, Kary and Ryker were both two of the more local slots against Soup, and Kary was one of the first to put up the idea of letting Soup get one night action in case he was telling the truth, and I already pointed out the Ryker posts that made me think he would just not go back to it. With those 2 out, Tom's recent vote on Orange and the general conversation about the thread discussing letting Soup get one Night Action, I just didnt really think I would be able to do it. But at this point we are already just going in circles about this one particular topic.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

In such a hypothetical scenario on D1 I would at least try to make a push and try to convince town why its better to lynch the person Im scumreading, but Soup didn't really say anything aside from admitting to it just being self preservation and having us just go off the two players he said he was townreading.

the people he was scumhunting were off the table and we were looking at three options to lynch: soup himself, and two of his townreads. to me, it becomes too little too late to convince the thread of a scumread you have in that scenario. theres nothing else to admit in that circumstance: if its you or the only other serious lynch options and you townread both of them, you put your vote on the townread you jive with less. thats the logic.

Yeah unvoting was a mistake, and I should have pushed for it, but I already said I didn't think the town was just gonna flock to Soup again, Kary and Ryker were both two of the more local slots against Soup, and Kary was one of the first to put up the idea of letting Soup get one night action in case he was telling the truth, and I already pointed out the Ryker posts that made me think he would just not go back to it. With those 2 out, Tom's recent vote on Orange and the general conversation about the thread discussing letting Soup get one Night Action, I just didnt really think I would be able to do it. But at this point we are already just going in circles about this one particular topic.

agreed, thats why im saying its inherently a moot point. it doesnt bother me to give it more time to stew on, but given what happened thats my impression.