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i think ran literally may hav never been mislynched as town on this site
I've seen what you posted. I understand your take and where it diverges from mine. What I want from you is a link to the context so I can read it and decide if I'm wrong. Either give me all the posts or link me to a starting point so I know where exactly at the EoD you're looking.
This catches me up, it also reveals to me I'm forgetting that he was getting away with a lot from others D1 because his excuse of new style, and I'm seeing the scales fall from your eyes in this regard. Thanks.
But I'll ask this as well:
wednesday 8 PST
this (#217) is the first mention of soup from fanny, in response to pythag asking him what he thought of him (soup had started his downward trend but not his meltdown). he says hes doing the usual soup null thing but doesnt really like "basically admitting to not looking at the votecount" which is... not very strong, but it doesnt have to be. its being qualified by the first paragraph that makes it a pretty light nudge at soup.
these are the rest of the interactions between fanny and soup throughout the page. we can scratch the second quote because its inherently null, but the first and third quote are essentially the same: who do you think we should be looking at if not spak or lore? this is admittedly a pretty good starting question for pressure on soup.
but ultimately, his vote lands on lore.
fanny seems to be actively pressuring lore and passively pressuring soup at this point. the question of "who is scum" isnt the same as "whats your readslist," and i dont think at this point needing a readslist from a player is necessary (its pg 8), but thats very nit picky. i dont really see much in these questions without some other discourse with soup. i see more from his questions from lore and pythag, but its not great. ex:
this is regarding pythag voting ff for being inactive instead of his scumreads or whatever. its not bad, and its content to talk about to develop a read. its not the hardest thing to notice or ask about so im reading it as null, but i dont see this sort of read developing by just asking soup the same question three times and having nothing else to go along with it than "soups doing the null ate thing, but bla bla bla ryker hammer"
this happens after more thread discourse regarding lore and pythag, responding to questions, etc. just another question of a readslist. its also worth noting that soup is getting grilled at this point. plenty of people are going at him: lore, ryker, marshy, kevm, kary. plenty of people are talking about him. but not fandangox. hes just asking the same questions four times in a row.
and gifs![]()
this post quotes soups dissertation on why the people pushing him were wrong and bad or whatever. there is no context given, so im left to my assumptions. they tell me that fandangox is tired of not being answered or whatever and votes him. but hes got no real stake in the read. to me, this lead up into this vote reads like a bus to me. try to push other ways but stick your toe on your scummate in case he sinks, see that pushing elsewhere isnt working, and slip in. he just slips onto the wagon without really getting his feet dirty with soup or trying to interact with others regarding soup. from his initial impressions on soup (#217) to his vote on soup (#420), half the game at that point, theres not much to show for it. just the same question four times.Vote: Soup
Lore or Soup should definitely be town's play today. I think we get very good info on the other depending on the flip.
#HBC | Ryker You are currently voting Soup, but it was mostly to equalize the wagons. Where's your head as of now?
KevinM Are you still only voting soup for the almost hammer of Ryker? Give me a readlist. Include everyone.
this is very soon after soups claims oracle. he doesnt acknowledge the claim, he becomes more keen on communicating that hes not being wagoned for what he thinks. this is, just like with his opening questions to soup leading to his vote, a pretty good start to the response of keeping your vote in spite of the claim. the fact remains that its his first interaction outside of asking for a readslist, but its not bad.
fanny responding to soup saying he doesnt wanna give a readslist because theyre so easy to fake. pretty vanilla response, pretty null, and asking for a readslist again.
fanny further egging soup on to go in detail with a readslist, and asking ryker why he doesnt really this lore v soup interactions would bear fruit. again, pretty vanilla, and note that the latter quote is his first read developing interaction with another player about soup since his initial impressions (i dont count his ryker or kevin questions because they were alongside his vote, and it was more tryna create a launchpad rather than like a response to someone else).
in response to kev saying he wont give a readslist. again, very vanilla. not much depth, just playing the field.
this is in direct response to soups wall about his opinion of the state of the game. it seemed fairly clear (at least to me) that this was moreso an introductory sort of wall about his perspective of how the games unfolded, and then he would follow up with a reads list (which he did). that context seemed pretty clear to me at the time at least. so this winds up reading as a pretty null sentiment in the grand scheme of things.
fanny prefers a consolidated post or whatever. again, very vanilla, but i want to be comprehensive and link all of his soup interactions. in pg 16 theres a small question thrown at lore, but at this point, his focus has gone more on soup with kinda keeping up lore.god please not another wall
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Soup, just tell me who is your biggest scumread and why? Whose play seems the scummiest to you?
If you are gonna do another wall at least then bring up specific posts from that slot then.
#1 is a response to soup calling his reading of spak reactionary, which fanny responds to very inconsequentially. #2 and #3 are simple leads to trying to get soup to develop his reads in more detail. not as gritty as he originally was, but depending on how he continues with his progression it doesnt necessarily have to be.
another innocuous response to soups readslist, the kary read this time.
responses to soup responding to his lore and ran read questions. hes just asking for more detail on some things regarding his reads. but its less in a prying-into-your-scumread kind of way and more in a just sparking discourse with someone way. personally, i feel like this tone is a bit displaced and there were places for fanny to have this sort of interaction before his vote that he just didnt take. and at this juncture, him writing this with this tone feels neutered to me.
the first line has a bit more of that tone that i said was missing before, but then its followed by his second and third line which go back to the more neutered approach. it overall reads as him holding back from really committing hard to the soup wagon, but his vote just happens to be there. with a player like marshy, his direction aligned with his tone in thread. if i read fannys post without knowing if he was on soup or not, id think he wasnt but that it looked like it might head that way.
these are both responsive to soup regarding his reads. it reads back more good than bad, but it doesnt really lean strongly either way. again somewhat displaced considering his vote on him and it being after the claim (which fandangox has still not directly mentioned his take on), i would expect him to have a more direct tone at this point...
...and i would really call this the first clearcut sign of fanny putting his fangs into scum!soup (#689). he is firm and direct on why soups play is scummy: he is showing minimal incentive to scumhunt, rather to just play a "reactionary" game. he isnt responding to his desire to expound on ran.
fanny stating that he is fine with either soup or lore going d1. this is on pg. 21 with a pretty even split on orange and soup. he is essentially putting himself in a place of less affirmation in soup being his primary lynch candidate, but he also doesnt mention orange in the conversation (the competing wagon). he later goes on to explain that he hasnt read too much into the slot, being more focused on soup and lore.That's the second time Lore has a rather unfortunate timing on a Soup vote.
Either one of them is good for me, butI still want
funny meme + 2nd quote show a firm stance in being on the fence between lore or soup being the play. the 2nd quote in particular stands out to me because it invites kary in on his town!lore read. i know its wifom to say that it looks like it might be a way to push to lore, so i consider it as inherently null and innocuous.
and then he ends pg 23 with acknowledging soups rehashing of his meme. through the page he has innocuous discourse with ryker and kevm on where to look on x and y soup flips but nothing too impactful.
quick response to soup asking who else is even townreading lore. again, innocuous, but present.
possibly sees the threads direction moving away from soup and says "if not soup, it should be lore." also officially states that hes neglected spak because of soup and lore.
fandangox questions soups decision to vote lore despite townreading him. at the time i believe soup was on pythag, one of his scumreads, and then voted lore on the basis of it being eod1 and voting another of the popular wagons. he later goes on to state that he had less reason to townread lore, so he didnt wanna support the orange wagon if he can help it. thats... pretty standard procedure in that scenario honestly. if youre a wagonee and there are two other wagonees, keep your vote off of your stronger townread. but this concept is confusing to fandangox.
goes onto describing the fact that soups vote on lore is self preservation and that he is officially okay with soup dying. thats a really weird tipping point. soups got a good list of scummy things to look at, but his voting on a competing wagon (like fanny is framing it) is not one of them. its common sense, and even ryker point it out to fanny at the time. his points in pg 18 are stronger than this point, and he did very little to push soups wagon toward the thread from pg 18-28. why so late? why is this fannys tipping point?
here fanny points out orange as another lynch option soup couldve chosen. it reads as, again, fairly innocuous in relation to his officially being okay with his death.
and then another thing that looks like an error on fannys part? soup clears up that hed rather vote lore instead of orange because he has a stronger townread on orange, so lore is his preferred wagon of the two.
this is really dumb and reachy logic. obviously soup is gonna vote not-soup at the end of the Day but while theres time hell vote his weaker townread with hope to see support built. this stronghold makes no sense
officially unvotes soup, which i do consider to be the end of meaningful support for the soup wagon. there was time and recourses to campaign with, but fanny didnt do it. in his #1130 he even still calls soup, lore and orange as being the three lynch candidates, which tells me that he acknowledges the capability to campaign a wagon he wanted to push. and in pg. 28 he points out lore being a much weaker lynch candidate than orange based on votes. at this point i believe his reading of orange is more than previously stated, but still relatively little. so why NOT campaign for soup if thats your biggest lynch candidate if youre fanny? youre unversed on the competing wagon and your other option barely has support.Unvote
Im begrudgingly ok with postponing Soup till D2, but I really wanna hear from#HBC | marshy and @Lore on the current situation
this is in conversation with orange and is a brief summary of the grievances for the soup wagon. its a decent write up but this seems mostly like a way to just have interaction with orange before he was lynched. he was fairly settled in his place to drop the hammer by this point.
i cant say definitively rn. i hav ideas that im not sure would b useful to state aloud
#HBC | Ryker
Why is Gorf's case on fanny wrong?
Currently my biggest town read is marshy.
more that fanny left himself a fair amount of outs to be able to go ways that werent soup if the opportunity presented itself and he wanted to. i cant say that he WAS trying to get out of the soup wagon
Yes but in that idea, his vote on orange would kinda solidify that he wanted out of the soup wagon.
I've been asking for a case the entire phase to talk about it, lmfao.
kinda. but i dont wanna subscribe to that necessarily because, in reality, the actual voting of orange was kind of necessary to ensure a d1 lynch. it was like right at deadline. im more interested in how he unvoted soup before that
eod2 kev, honestly, does not ring like someone who was seriously considering the idea that not-soup was going to happen. i feel like theres enough reasonable doubt through the rest of his d2 play for me to feel like his trying to make a lore wagon was not something he cared heavy for. **** he dropped the lore vote and did absolutely nothing with it, he went to fandangox and delved further on his read on him. so i read it is wholly null.
#HBC | Gorf
I read your expanded case and a lot of it is you just narrating my play without a lot of your own insight on why it is REALLY scummy of me to do those things.
a lot of it is narrating the play in order to illustrate the point in the game, yes, but i disagree that theres not a lot of insight on why what you did was really scummy (especially because this is just an expansion of what ive said so far).
i know you didnt ask for a read in a vacuum, and i even said that your initial asking of who he thinks is town and scum is a pretty good look. but its the fact that your engagement with soup seemed really distant especially compared to other slots you found scummy/were interacting with (lore, pythag) at the time.fanny said:
this isnt really a big argument of mine, more of a hairpin compared to other points i have. your lack of engagement till very close to the end of deadline is questionable but i dont doubt the idea that you, as town, would have your focus elsewhere in spite of orange wagon gaining momentum. i mean i pretty much did that with lore for a while.fanny said:
fandangox. are you seriously going to tell me that if you are town and you are being wagoned hard, and there are two other players that have high vocal support for their wagon (with a pretty volatile state with voting and wagons, which it was), you are not going to put your vote on the player you find to be less townie in case support pulls that way?fanny said:
and its a moot point between us not but the fact that you felt so strongly about the self preservation thing and dont try to make a last push for soup is still a bad look to me.fanny said:
In such a hypothetical scenario on D1 I would at least try to make a push and try to convince town why its better to lynch the person Im scumreading, but Soup didn't really say anything aside from admitting to it just being self preservation and having us just go off the two players he said he was townreading.
the people he was scumhunting were off the table and we were looking at three options to lynch: soup himself, and two of his townreads. to me, it becomes too little too late to convince the thread of a scumread you have in that scenario. theres nothing else to admit in that circumstance: if its you or the only other serious lynch options and you townread both of them, you put your vote on the townread you jive with less. thats the logic.
agreed, thats why im saying its inherently a moot point. it doesnt bother me to give it more time to stew on, but given what happened thats my impression.fanny said:
