Whose Mafia Is it Anyway - Game Over!

[Fandangox]

bro dont use me making a competing wagon out of lore against me you shady bitxh i just wanted some sssssspice... and we got it

and now its your job to prove why my bad play was scum motivated instead of just stating things that i did. sure theres implicit implications on why those things are bad on a surface level, but town plays ****ty too.

cant hate on your ran read tho

You said this in your #776
When you and Ryker were having the back and forth about letting Soup live D1.

ebwop can be misinterpreted

zero intention of defending against the soup wagon past toDay

Why vote Lore then when Soup was going to become the play, what were yo expecting to get out of it?

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

i was expecting to see some ****ing spice go down, and it really did. were you even reading my soup/lore read progress throughout d2? i wanted to solve lore d3. i voted lore at the 11th hour. what do you want me to say, you saw me push a ****ing lynch i wanted to see go through d1.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

see this association youre tryna pull is similar to your unvoting of soup early eod1 is a really bad ****ing look since the soup lynch still STRONGLY looked like a possible lynch:

Unvote

Im begrudgingly ok with postponing Soup till D2, but I really wanna hear from KevinM @#HBC | marshy and @Lore on the current situation

to set the stage, the voutcount was essentially 5v5 (counting ryker on soup and kary kind on orange). your play consisted of saying this the page before:

Like dawg, I slightly bring up the possibility of you not being the play today and it being Lore, and then you IMMEDIATELY vote the slot, despite you townreading it.

That's textbook self ****ing preservation right there.

I am now ok with your slot dying today.

(pretty ****ing bad reason to find soup scummy btw ngl the litany of ****ty things he did and you chose this?)

in the next page, you take your vote off. you waver. despite having a player who youre okay with dying today, you back off and defer to a player who, a handful of pages back, you paid no mind to despite them being a major lynch candidate.

that is scummy because, in tandem with your play, you essentially shouldve had zero reason not to put up a fight on a player who you found to be scum that was sitting at ****ing l2. soup (and lore too kinda but not nearly comparable) was the only wagon you really pushed. THROUGH the claim. and youre gonna be "begrudgingly ok with postponing soup till d2?"

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

ebwop:

"...your unvoting of soup early eod1. *its* a really bad ****ing look..."

 

[ranmaru]

I will post in here tomorrow. Will give thoughts then.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

I will post in here tomorrow. Will give thoughts then.

Can you put quick hit reads on file tonight like I did? Save your explanations and **** for tomorrow?

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

this dude lore really got his ass modkilled lmfao stoopid

 

[Fandangox]

see this association youre tryna pull is similar to your unvoting of soup early eod1 is a really bad ****ing look since the soup lynch still STRONGLY looked like a possible lynch:



to set the stage, the voutcount was essentially 5v5 (counting ryker on soup and kary kind on orange). your play consisted of saying this the page before:



(pretty ****ing bad reason to find soup scummy btw ngl the litany of ****ty things he did and you chose this?)

in the next page, you take your vote off. you waver. despite having a player who youre okay with dying today, you back off and defer to a player who, a handful of pages back, you paid no mind to despite them being a major lynch candidate.

that is scummy because, in tandem with your play, you essentially shouldve had zero reason not to put up a fight on a player who you found to be scum that was sitting at ****ing l2. soup (and lore too kinda but not nearly comparable) was the only wagon you really pushed. THROUGH the claim. and youre gonna be "begrudgingly ok with postponing soup till d2?"

I'll admit the timing on that looks very bad, but it was 5-4 and Ryker had already expressed interest and made a case about Spak, and pretty sure Kary was voting Soup and then unvoted expressing their interest in letting Soup live, so I didn't have any reason to believe they would go back Soup after the posts they made.

I only hammered Spak when there were like 10 minutes to the deadline after going through yours and Ryker's cases, and pretty much did said myself I couldn't get a read of him and was one of the reasons I was ok with voting the slot since so many were okay with it.

You've got a Soup flip, why don't you read my interactions with Soup and decide if they were fabricated? A lot of your case depends on the timing of my votes and having me putting both Soup and Lore scum together which I already explained why I no longer felt that was the case as of my #1,830

 

[ranmaru]

Currently leaning on Ryker scum and Marshy scum.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

I'll admit the timing on that looks very bad, but it was 5-4 and Ryker had already expressed interest and made a case about Spak, and pretty sure Kary was voting Soup and then unvoted expressing their interest in letting Soup live, so I didn't have any reason to believe they would go back Soup after the posts they made.

shut the **** up ryker was gung ho on a soup lynch

I only hammered Spak when there were like 10 minutes to the deadline after going through yours and Ryker's cases, and pretty much did said myself I couldn't get a read of him and was one of the reasons I was ok with voting the slot since so many were okay with it.

congratulations on creating an argument for yourself and arguing that point rather than my point. did i say the physical act of you hammering spak was scummy? you can make up any arbitrary reason you want for moving to spak but that **** was null.

You've got a Soup flip, why don't you read my interactions with Soup and decide if they were fabricated? A lot of your case depends on the timing of my votes and having me putting both Soup and Lore scum together which I already explained why I no longer felt that was the case as of my #1,830

honey i already have and if you dont think ive got the chutzpah to ****ing make an avalanche of a case on you youre sorely mistaken.

"Overall theme is he just seems interested in being present but out of the way, moreso letting things play out and playing on a super comfy armchair."

"Doesn’t care to do much in terms of advancing reads or condoning pushes"

"Rest of his play is set on playing townie looking enough and gleefully waiting for himself to look good on a scum soup lynch."

"THERE IS MINIMAL PROGRESSION TO HIS READS and if theres one person throughout the Day who looks like theyre comfortable being stuck until d3, its fanny."

"And from then to eod he didn’t do much else aside from exist and chime in inconsequentially."

also the fact that i literally just pointed out your 1086 being lore cringe worthy levels of cementing a scumread on soup in this. a fabricated interaction.

 

[Pythag]

the whole way pythag went about this is scummy. hes not focusing on soups actual play. its just a mechanical justification for goin him prefaced with a lot of wishy washy language. reads like cautious scum

I own the wishy washiness. I wasn't sure about soup, I'm sorry I couldn't have been as certain as y'all at the time. Which is why..

this was 40 minutes before deadline

before this, he had posted 3 hours before deadline

what townie decides to wait til the last 4 hours of the phase to reread the leading wagon? looks fake af

I was rereading while I was making those light posts. I hadn't finished gotten through D2, I only was on D1, and I was going to make a post. I also forgot that I had to run and pick up my brother from another city. I could only do that half assed post in the car. The reason for this post was because I know I had been wishy washy on soup, I wanted to at the VERY least, clarify or solidify my vote on him beyond what you say as "the mechanics."

Getting time to reread and on a computer was really good because I DID see that Ryker absolutely demolished soup.
It was post like " soup you...Cast doubt on town reads, check, create a new scum pool, check, actually scumhuntning? I don't see it."

why was tom killed?

cause I already draw a lot of attention?

I guess I'll do initial reads before I go to bed.


Ryker and Kevin, - Town
Gorf and Marshy - no idea.
Fanny - here be 1 more scum?
Ran? - Ran.

Kevin's convinced of a bingo on Fan, Which makes it hard to for me to not sheep. I need to reread and also hear more of kevin's case, because that aligns with my early gut read. The only thing I could think of was how much interaction with soup Fandangox had. I don't if that's a scum tell, or if it's a way of showing s v s, idk.


I haven't seen anything alarming out of Ran. The Lore v Ran just made me think, wow lore and ran are really in this game. His play seems to be again, similar to the last game I saw, which was Ran seemingly getting lost on assumptions of scum, and then building connections that don't hold up under scrutiny.

Gorf terrifies me, and I have no clue.

Marshy's case on Lore kinda shows the cracks in the armor, with the Lore flip. I could see the kill on tom as a way of setting up an easy kill on me.
But even his case seems consistent for town!marshy play, so seriously, gorf and marshy is a toss up.

Kevin and Ryker still strike me as town.

However I know there are people here who would bus the ever loving crap out of one of their scummates, so I want to be cognizant of that as well.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Ok, so here we are. Happy 4:20. Let's play the mafia game.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Reads list as of start of this phase.

Town:

Marshy
Fanny

Middle:

Gorf
Pythag
Ranmaru

Scum:

KevinM

I already don't know if I want to stick with any of this one, but here we are. I had originally intended to figure this **** out while pushing Frozen, but someone was kind enough to relieve me of that chore. I'll go into them one at a time.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Reads within tiers are unordered, FYI.

Marshy is one of my favorite slots in the game. He has been in the right place at the right time throughout the game and I can't see his interactions with Soup panning out as SvS. At the moment, he and Fanny are a clear cut above the rest because I don't have a list of grievances for them to answer for.

Fanny is similar. He was the only slot in this game that hounded Soup as much as I did. He was the only other slot in the game that tried to punch a Soup lynch through on D1 until the very end. I'm seeing Kev hates him and now suddenly both Gorf and Pythag have shown up with townreads on Kevin and are falling in with that push. I can't reconcile it with the way you end up having Fanny chasing Soup about a read list for the entirety of Day 1.


~~~~~~~~

Gorf is the opposite of Marshy. He is consistently in the wrong place at the wrong time. I don't like his commentary excusing his Lore push yesterday as "spicing things up." If that's the case, it still looks like dog ****. It doesn't change the fact that you decided to "spice things up" only at the very end of the phase after FF and Kevin showed up to push something that wasn't Soup. This wasn't the man coming in during D1 trying to make something happen with Orange. It was "I'll hitch myself to this and see what happens," and the "this" in question was a push on a townie instead of a scumbag. THAT SAID, his EoD1 looks a lot better to me. I think if he was just aiming to save Soup, he ends up on Lore instead of Orange. We didn't get that, we got him taking a different option and seeing it through. Campaigning to find out what people thought and aiming to make something happen.

So essentially, the reason Gorf isn't on either end of my reads list is because Day 1 Gorf is a townie and Day 2 Gorf is a scumbag.

Pythag has so precious little to decipher him. He's probably going to be my go to default safety net of "that's a scumbag" if I can't find enough scumbags to fit a team. I will flat out say that I need more information on this slot. I'm going to have to ISO it (not tonight) looking at where it voted, especially at EoD, and try and find things I can use to disqualify it as allied with the other slots left in the game.

Ranmaru is the FUN one. I skimmed the **** out of Ranmaru vs Lore, but from what I could see it was hella reachy. I remember him accusing Lore of doing nothing during D2 which I thought sounded absurd, but I wasn't about to get into it with Ran yesterday. Now he's coming in calling me and one of my biggest town reads scum. That's not a good look. Speaking of not good looks, I don't like the way he came off on a Soup town read in D2. He ended up settled on Soup at EoD, but that was late and after it became pretty clear Soup was gonna go. The biggest point I have in his favor is the way he reacted to Soup attempting to self-hammer. His initial reaction was the correct one where Soup had outed himself as scum by attempting to capitalize on my vote to lynch himself, but as the last few hours of the day phase continued, he moved to a read that I was pulling a fast one. It showed me that he's thinking in there. Either he's a scumbag who felt himself cornered if he didn't keep me on the lynch table, or it's town Ran doing the thing where I absolutely cannot be town no matter what the circumstances.


~~~~~~~~

KevinM, my guy. That push at the end of last phase was disgusting as all hell. WHERE WAS IT THE REST OF DAY 2? You're gonna come in here and go hard. You're gonna come in here and make noise. That's commendable. I love that. Why the hell did it take Frozen coming out and all but declaring he was going to ride your **** for the entire game to make it happen? Why in the **** did it happen with so little time left that there was a decent chance half the slots in the game weren't going to be able to react to it. That timing is hot GARBAGE.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Now, I'm not going ultra ham tonight, but I do have a couple of things I want to look at this phase that I would love other people to talk about with me.

1.) Is there scum on the Orange Wagon D1 and who is it?

2.) Tom was Messenger. Did anyone get a message from him either phase?

3.) Gorf, can you please tell me what the rationale was for hitching yourself to the Lore wagon and why Fanny is so wrong to yell at you about it? Specifically, much like what I'm complaining about with Kev, can I ask where that was at any point before the last 24 hours of the phase?

4.) Ran, what's your take on the remainder of the slots, not just me and Marshy.

5.) Pythag, homeslice, this isn't a question, but you're gonna have to do more this phase. I need to see you out there interacting with what people are talking about and offering me a steady stream of how your thoughts are changing this phase if you want me not to be aiming a noose at you at some point this day.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

I REALLY don't want to reread the entire thread again.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

whats the point of you hitching your vote on lore for the most of d1 and d2 despite wanting soup dead? because its a competing wagon and its ****ing spicy. i had zero thought that that wagon was going to lead to anything (obv impossible to prove but look at my play and tell me i cared to push that to a lynch). only thing anyone can point to was the fact that i thought lore had a higher chance of flipping scum than soup. but honestly i dont blame myself for thinking soup had more tact than to play like this as scum. and to the very end i was more interested in seeing soups flip because it opened the game wide open and his flip was much much more valuable than lores flip (i was still absolutely sure scum!soup was not aligned with lore, and we got a kevin flip on town!lore)

it wasnt anywhere before the last 24 hours of the phase because i didnt ****ing want to lynch lore. i wanted to light a flame under the thread, and whether the 11th hour lore wagon did that or not, we got ****ing 10 pages of FAT content out of it. no regrets. you said you saw me campaign for and push orange. all throughout the Day i was rereading and was constantly met with really nasty/scummy play coming from both sides. i had also been expressing uncertainty among both sides flipping scum. but ive also been vocal about wanting to solve LORE, not soup, moving forward. because in my head, soup was going to ****ing happen.

 

[KevinM]

Ryker just... nah my guy.

I probably won’t be in the thread until late today going to a show.

Then I’ll have to try my very best for Tommy boy

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Fanny is similar. He was the only slot in this game that hounded Soup as much as I did. He was the only other slot in the game that tried to punch a Soup lynch through on D1 until the very end. I'm seeing Kev hates him and now suddenly both Gorf and Pythag have shown up with townreads on Kevin and are falling in with that push. I can't reconcile it with the way you end up having Fanny chasing Soup about a read list for the entirety of Day 1.

should i explain how his initial vote of and confirmation of wanting him dead-backing down of soup is grime city or do you wanna tell me how it’s not?

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

Good **** town not listening to my dumb ass and nailing soup. I deserved a bullet this game, played like ****, used up all my reads talent last game I guess. Go town!

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

should i explain how his initial vote of and confirmation of wanting him dead-backing down of soup is grime city or do you wanna tell me how it’s not?

His initial vote of Soup is grime city? I remember that EoD very differently than you do, apparently. I remember Fanny wanting Soup until the EoD. I remember him continuing to want Soup until the very end where he hammered Orange because no one but the pair of us were willing to axe Soup on the first day,

I also remember his Day 2 where he was one of three players (the other being Marshy) that were making sure Soup was dead. I remember him being the only other slot in the game trying to stop people from writing Soup free checks for AtE.

I remember a lot of good things. I don't remember a lot of bad things.

Either lay out your posts that make you think it's grime city or else give me a post number to pick up from to get context for his grimy behavior at EoD.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Actually, **** it. Let's just not play this game. It's mis-shoot and lose.

Fanny, if you're vig, claim the clear.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

I was going to try and hide that read, but I think it's better to just mass claim today.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Fandangox

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

I'm not vig.

Marshy, Kev, Gorf all have testicles too large to not shoot N1 with slots like Lore/Soup running around.

Ranmaru doesn't shoot either player that died last night if Ran shoots.

That leaves Pythag and Fanny. I assume scum didn't kill FF considering the fact that he looked sus as ****. Pythag came into this phase eating out of Kevin's hand and so I find it harder to believe that he shot FF instead of "Fanbingo."

That means Fanny is vig.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

I guess theory marshy or Gorf got roleblocked night one is the other option here, but if that's the case, I'd still rather know my logic is faulty than continue running with a clear in my head that isn't a clear.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

lowkey dont think its beneficial for us to massclaim rn but willing to abstain until fanny reports in

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

lowkey dont think its beneficial for us to massclaim rn but willing to abstain until fanny reports in

I would much rather have scum out in the open with claims before the final phase so they have to be held accountable for them in LyLo, especially if it derails a wagon on someone who can clear themselves and save us a day phase of stupidity.

 

[ranmaru]

I am not vig.

 

[ranmaru]

think its scummy how lore is sticking to this hypothetical as a means to push discussion. gave im a pass for the first time but it feels contrived at this point

and why the continued engagement of pythag? i mean him no offense but if i was scum pythags a player i would press considering how ppl found him scummy last game. its convenient and just a weird direction to go as town rn

dont like how he opened the question up to the floor either. why not just let the game progress organically? thatll do much more for reads than the route hes taken

i feel like a lot of lores posts are for show. like trying to establish himself as a driver of discussion when a townie wouldnt feel that way considering where were at at this point in the game

I think this quote shows us why Marshy is scum. Especially the red, as this is a stretch on Lore and being unfair.

 

[ranmaru]

I lack an early game from Lore to compare, but this seems like a stretch. Based on what I know of Lore, bumbling attempts to progress something seems like a good thing from the slot. I don't like the way he approached the situation, but that's because I think it was poorly done. And organically doesn't seem to be a word in his vocabulary.

What makes it seem like scum play instead of bad town play in your head?

Ryker realizes this but he doesn't push Marshy hard on it.

 

[ranmaru]

Reason why I was waiting so long before pushing Marshy was to see if his pushes would be correct. I don't really see that energy from him, even though he was right on Soup. EOD of Day 1 he didn't really push that hard at the end when we got off Soup. I expected something from him there but he stayed quiet. Although, I'm more confident Ryker is scum here today. I might be wrong on Marshy but another thing that gives me pause is that Marshy is still alive today. I also don't get why he's pushing Pythag of all people. Doesn't seem like a lynch that would actually get scum in this desperate situation for town.

 

[ranmaru]

I was wrong on Lore. I just took the over confidence on Soup as a scum lock on him, as well as his out of place vote on Soup. The ball game thing was a mistake, but note that on Day 1, I mentioned this before. I was at least consistent with this feeling on him.

On soup, I don't think much can be said. I don't get town cred from it, obviously. But I let it pass either way. I was expecting him to flip town and get heat for that anyway, but I wasn't going to force a scum read on him if I didn't believe it. I don't think it would make sense for me as scum to state that he's town when he has 4 votes, and I was aware he was near death.

I'll give more detail on others later.

 

[Fandangox]

shut the **** up ryker was gung ho on a soup lynch

Ryker was gungho on a soup lynch as of his #747 but he is swayed after your #762 See his #766 and #774. I didn't have much reason to think either he or Kary would go back on Soup. Specially when Ryker votes Lore after and makes the case on Spak, and Kary was one of the ones to bring up letting Soup live for one day.

 

[Fandangox]

Actually, **** it. Let's just not play this game. It's mis-shoot and lose.

Fanny, if you're vig, claim the clear.

Im vanilla. I don't think the vig should claim just yet.

 

[Fandangox]

I think this quote shows us why Marshy is scum. Especially the red, as this is a stretch on Lore and being unfair.

Are this and #2,272 the only reasons you are scumreading Marshy?

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Ryker was gungho on a soup lynch as of his #747 but he is swayed after your #762 See his #766 and #774. I didn't have much reason to think either he or Kary would go back on Soup. Specially when Ryker votes Lore after and makes the case on Spak, and Kary was one of the ones to bring up letting Soup live for one day.

thats a fair interpretation. but i still stand by thinking your progression to a soup scumread initially and the timing off the wagon in tandem with your "being okay with him dying" post is grimy, but im fine laying that out neatly later on in the Day.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

His initial vote of Soup is grime city? I remember that EoD very differently than you do, apparently.

im down to give you a deep dive later in the Day if you want but in short

his vote on soup was after soups dumb meltdown, #420. that was honestly a pretty late jump onto him, and not shortly after soup claims oracle. he just kinda asked him a few times about his readslist (#231, #312, #380) and voiced not liking him reading the vc when he near hammered you (#218) after being asked about it by pythag. he also characterized his ate as "the null soup thing." he voted lore on #240 (soup had four votes at the time). throughout the time he looked more interested in pushing lore, pythag, and interacting with others, and would sprinkle in his soup readlist question. plenty of hubbub was happening around him and he was just... distant from it. and then he just... votes soup and theres no chance to see how he takes that pre claim because soup claims in the next post.

idk man that ****s grimy. he looked like he was more interested in setting up lore and pythag (and as of now hes just never made ANY sort of strong pushes toward despite making little barks here and there about him) and noticed soup was crumbling more and more over like the 200 posts (half the game at the point of his vote) and pitched his tent.

I remember Fanny wanting Soup until the EoD. I remember him continuing to want Soup until the very end where he hammered Orange because no one but the pair of us were willing to axe Soup on the first day,

he did want soup till eod. he unvoted when the wagon was 4v5 soup v orange and i would say there was still reason to fight if he felt strongly enough about offing soup. and just the page before he reaffirmed his want to off soup with his #1086 (which is in and of itself comparable to lores initial hopping on soup being stupid). with the state of the game at that point, i find it hard to believe he gives up on wanting to lynch soup that soon after having that affirmation of his want to lynch soup. there were still means and reasons to try to pull support: cuz you wanna ****ing lynch your scumread. spak was a ?, soup was a strong scumread.

I also remember his Day 2 where he was one of three players (the other being Marshy) that were making sure Soup was dead. I remember him being the only other slot in the game trying to stop people from writing Soup free checks for AtE.

dude i cant think of a moment in the phase yesterDay where i thought soup wasnt going to get lynched. i give you credit for that because of the timing and the quality of the points of contention with him being so ****ing good. i give marshy credit for immediately coming out and plastering his vote on soup and not ****ing letting it go. by #1336 there are 4 votes on soup: marshy, ryker, lore, and pythag. fandangox has been... chillin. chattering around, coasting by, keeping up interaction with soup too through this. but i didnt see any sort of oomph to lynch soup from fandangox until his #1439, his tier list.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

yo why the **** didnt vig shoot soup n1 was a garbo vig

 

[giraffelasergun]

Pythag(1): Marshy
Fandangox(1): Gorf
Ranmaru(1): Fandangox

Not Voting: KevinM, Pythag, Ryker, Ranmaru

With 7 alive it takes 4 to lynch. Deadline is at 9 Eastern / 8 Central / 7 Mountain 6 / Pacific on Wednesday.