Whose Mafia Is it Anyway - Game Over!

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were at the point where we hav to go who ppl believe is scummiest. no more mechanical **** cuz if soup flips town scum get off scotfree cuz "loloracle"
Nah tbh I think the Soup wagon needs to be immediately looked at in that case. Not sure why you think Oracle would remove that aspect.

I need to take some notes soon, gather up thoughts and really settle some reads.
 

#HBC | ѕoup

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I'll try to limit my defenses as I've already done it enough. There's something inside me that stirs when people wrongly assume my intentions, but I digress.

I feel this game is close to solved. It might not look at it that way, but to me it's pretty transparent. There is an extra amount of detail being presented by a few of you and that bodes well with me on the surface. Obviously, scum are able to make catch-ups and pretend to care, but the observation I've made this game is that scum hasn't really feel obligated to do these things--why do it now? I'm not saying being thorough is equivalent to being locktown, but I think it is the way certain players engage compared to others that is more telling to me.

These players in my head are Gorf/Tom, and I think this just reaffirms my feelings I already previously stated. Frozen comes out of the game with a ferocity that easily eluded me at first glance, but then I sorta realize it's way more hollow if I compare those feelings to those I mentioned. It's a lot of bravado and not a lot of action, and I was already starting to feel this way eventually. The thing about Frozen and why I think he's a good candidate is that Gorf/Tom feel more susceptible to pressure, maybe not in the 'i scumread you' sense but rather they feel something is on the line. I do not feel that way about Frozen. Gorf/Tom both felt like perhaps they were wrong and then went ahead and took the intiative to correct a mistake, and I feel more often than not Town are more willing to admit those. Frozen just seems indignant all the time, sticking his nose up at people and pretending to be offended at a gesture that doesn't even involve him. It's gross.
 

#HBC | marshy

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Marshy, same question except not do they shoot tonight. Assume it’s compulsive for some reason who do they shoot
shoot lore/soup if we hit one and they flip town. if theyre both town games ****ed but i doubt it

if lore flips scum, kill ryker or pythag

if soup flips scum, kill frozen or you

this is off the top of my head and is subject to change depending on flip + reread but feels good for now
 

#HBC | marshy

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Either one that I vote goes to L-1. Why can't I express my willingness to lynch either one
look dude

you pretty much said "lores scummier cuz x but we can lynch soup cuz y"

y being a nice out for any potential scum

your reasoning is that soup must b resolved but lets b real if soups town were just gonna body lore. the wagons are tied and both have been getting **** on since d1. the logic applies just as easily to your scumread so i dont like you using it to excuse him
 

#HBC | ѕoup

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My feelings on Pythag remain unsolved. I do not feel as strongly as I do about Frozen. There are things lining up in my head and I would like to test that instead of chasing a pipedream, and really I do see Gorf's argument (one of my strongest townreads) about him therefore it's a moot point. Marshy teeters between me trying to apply pressure to him in boastful ways to combat his normal attitude to realizing that strategy is somewhat ineffective. I've sat here and criticized him about many things but then afterwards I feel stupid because that's just the type of player he is. I don't think marshy is a type of person you can convince they're scum, they will deny it regardless of alignment. I think some moves he's taken need to be looked at however and this is not a full pass.

If you guys lynch me, are you just going to default on lore tommorow? You should make the decision on who you scumread because that logic applies regardless. I do not to be mislynched on a beneficiary note, because you will be down one town in that outcome. I feel slightly reinvigorated too.
 

#HBC | ѕoup

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look dude

you pretty much said "lores scummier cuz x but we can lynch soup cuz y"

y being a nice out for any potential scum

your reasoning is that soup must b resolved but lets b real if soups town were just gonna body lore. the wagons are tied and both have been getting **** on since d1. the logic applies just as easily to your scumread so i dont like you using it to excuse him

See my #1889
 

#HBC | ѕoup

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If Vig is in this game, they shoot tonight. We have 3 to 4 flips. That's enough to shoot your shot especially if they didnt shoot last night.

Soup>Lore>Fan>Pythag would probably be my shot order with Fan being the ballsy call
I don't see how Fan>Pythag is your order here or why that makes sense
 

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I'll try to limit my defenses as I've already done it enough. There's something inside me that stirs when people wrongly assume my intentions, but I digress.

I feel this game is close to solved. It might not look at it that way, but to me it's pretty transparent. There is an extra amount of detail being presented by a few of you and that bodes well with me on the surface. Obviously, scum are able to make catch-ups and pretend to care, but the observation I've made this game is that scum hasn't really feel obligated to do these things--why do it now? I'm not saying being thorough is equivalent to being locktown, but I think it is the way certain players engage compared to others that is more telling to me.

These players in my head are Gorf/Tom, and I think this just reaffirms my feelings I already previously stated. Frozen comes out of the game with a ferocity that easily eluded me at first glance, but then I sorta realize it's way more hollow if I compare those feelings to those I mentioned. It's a lot of bravado and not a lot of action, and I was already starting to feel this way eventually. The thing about Frozen and why I think he's a good candidate is that Gorf/Tom feel more susceptible to pressure, maybe not in the 'i scumread you' sense but rather they feel something is on the line. I do not feel that way about Frozen. Gorf/Tom both felt like perhaps they were wrong and then went ahead and took the intiative to correct a mistake, and I feel more often than not Town are more willing to admit those. Frozen just seems indignant all the time, sticking his nose up at people and pretending to be offended at a gesture that doesn't even involve him. It's gross.
This is good **** tbh. Makes me want to reread Ryker no matter which way you flip (although less so if Town!Soup), and especially so if you flip Scum as I believe.

Your second paragraph basically describes Ryker to a T toDay imo, yet you bring up Gorf/Tom instead. I think you have a valid point, but if you're town, why did you not bring up Ryker?

If you're scum (which I still believe, no offense), this post feels like a mix of projection and misdirection. Projection as in a scum mate is doing exactly this, misdirection because Ryker isn't being brought up. This is pure theory though and not something I fully believe, but it's enough to make me want to look at Ryker again.


Dude is kinda just using his big d*** energy to coast while appearing to contribute, minus his 1v1 with FF and a couple other moments. He's straight up tossing out points from people without much reasoning or care while tunneling arguably just as badly as me; he just includes two people as the focus, albeit two people who are closely linked so far.

That's at least my impression, and it makes me want to rethink my earlier hard town read. Not sure on the whole situation.


shoot lore/soup if we hit one and they flip town. if theyre both town games ****ed but i doubt it

if lore flips scum, kill ryker or pythag

if soup flips scum, kill frozen or you

this is off the top of my head and is subject to change depending on flip + reread but feels good for now
Why shoot me instead of a more uncertain/unfocused slot? Gorf and others seem to think I'm "solvable."
 

#HBC | ѕoup

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I think Fan/Pythag is more individual. I don't think all scum are sitting there mocking town on their indecision, I'm pretty sure I'm wrong somewhere as I don't have that blind confidence. I can see Fan/Pythag/Frozen not as a team, rather a stronger equity of reaping at least one scum. It's a bit jumbled in my head, but I've my priorities clear by now I think.
 

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this mother ****ers really tryna lynch his townread over his scumread
look dude

you pretty much said "lores scummier cuz x but we can lynch soup cuz y"

y being a nice out for any potential scum

your reasoning is that soup must b resolved but lets b real if soups town were just gonna body lore. the wagons are tied and both have been getting **** on since d1. the logic applies just as easily to your scumread so i dont like you using it to excuse him
You're both right that this is exactly where I find myself.

But I also feel 1: I'm correct? 2: i dont mind lynching them one after another?
 

#HBC | marshy

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Why shoot me instead of a more uncertain/unfocused slot? Gorf and others seem to think I'm "solvable."
i want the you/soup dichotomy solved. i do not want to do this **** for a third phase in a row if it can b avoided. there being a scum between yall is my strongest read. once we get a scumflip there the game breaks open and can b more interesting/easier to solve
 

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Marshy how do you feel about Lore you can quote yourself if you want

I feel like you're pointing out things I'm doing you dont like but I cant tell why / if you get where I'm coming from
 

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Like you just posted basically saying the same thing I'm saying but you also give me heat for my decision in trying to end this soup ****?
 

#HBC | ѕoup

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Your second paragraph basically describes Ryker to a T toDay imo, yet you bring up Gorf/Tom instead. I think you have a valid point, but if you're town, why did you not bring up Ryker?

If you're scum (which I still believe, no offense), this post feels like a mix of projection and misdirection. Projection as in a scum mate is doing exactly this, misdirection because Ryker isn't being brought up. This is pure theory though and not something I fully believe, but it's enough to make me want to look at Ryker again.
I highly disagree that describes Ryker. Ryker believes he is never wrong, or at least close to it. I recall a moment where he said 'yeah I can be wrong' yet here he is parading around these two lynches like the game is already solved. This is vastly different from Tom/Gorf. Are you suggesting that Frozen's actions are the same as Ryker? I also disagree on this because Frozen has guided emotion meanwhile Ryker will beat you over the head with his jilted 'logic'.
 

#HBC | marshy

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Marshy how do you feel about Lore you can quote yourself if you want

I feel like you're pointing out things I'm doing you dont like but I cant tell why / if you get where I'm coming from
i mean from memory im the one who made a case on lore d1 which led to sentiment against him. but since that time i was interacting with soup ive felt stronger going there

like, im voting my top scumread. youre not and justified killing the one you think is likelier town when both are doable/on the chopping block. how am i supposed to interpret that?
 

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i want the you/soup dichotomy solved. i do not want to do this **** for a third phase in a row if it can b avoided. there being a scum between yall is my strongest read. once we get a scumflip there the game breaks open and can b more interesting/easier to solve
Tbh this straight up feels like a waste of a vig shot, and I feel like shooting me is not how Town should get their Bread, ya know? I feel like reading me again D3 and actually solving my slot would be more productive.
 

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I highly disagree that describes Ryker. Ryker believes he is never wrong, or at least close to it. I recall a moment where he said 'yeah I can be wrong' yet here he is parading around these two lynches like the game is already solved. This is vastly different from Tom/Gorf. Are you suggesting that Frozen's actions are the same as Ryker? I also disagree on this because Frozen has guided emotion meanwhile Ryker will beat you over the head with his jilted 'logic'.
Fair, and a solid answer that will need your flip for more context imo. I don't think Frozen is the same as Ryker, but he does fit into that mold decently well.

I also find it strange that I'm getting heat for believing I'm never wrong while Ryker doesn't. Not heat from you, just in general.
 

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Real talk from memory I do not remember you putting a case towards lynching Lore at all so you might want to quote yourself of that

Also the logic doesnt equally apply to both lore and soup because of the oracle claim. I feel they can both be scum. In the event that I'm wrong on Soup, I get a bonus read on Kevin. - have you not seen me post that before?
 

#HBC | marshy

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and if kevins read on fanny has you sussing fanny to the point of a potential vig why not vote with kev here if his reads are that important to you?

i dont want a repeat of the last game where i misread you but i dont get your approach here
 

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Also the logic doesnt equally apply to both lore and soup because of the oracle claim. I feel they can both be scum. In the event that I'm wrong on Soup, I get a bonus read on Kevin. - have you not seen me post that before?
Quoting part of your big note post for relevance:


If Soup flips town and Kevin flips town, Fandango drops fast, pending Kevin's soul-read
If Soup flips town and Kevin flips scum, your team owes it to me to take me out of this world
If Soup flips town, Marshy drops, Ryker drops
If Soup flips scum, Gorf drops, FF stays at bottom
If Lore flips scum, Pythag drops
While you had me below Soup as a scum read (if I understand the list earlier than this section correctly), your flip reads seem to prioritize Soup. I think it's pretty clear that you've been wanting Soup gone first, and your actions seem consistent.
 

#HBC | marshy

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Real talk from memory I do not remember you putting a case towards lynching Lore at all so you might want to quote yourself of that

Also the logic doesnt equally apply to both lore and soup because of the oracle claim. I feel they can both be scum. In the event that I'm wrong on Soup, I get a bonus read on Kevin. - have you not seen me post that before?
here

think its scummy how lore is sticking to this hypothetical as a means to push discussion. gave im a pass for the first time but it feels contrived at this point

and why the continued engagement of pythag? i mean him no offense but if i was scum pythags a player i would press considering how ppl found him scummy last game. its convenient and just a weird direction to go as town rn

dont like how he opened the question up to the floor either. why not just let the game progress organically? thatll do much more for reads than the route hes taken

i feel like a lot of lores posts are for show. like trying to establish himself as a driver of discussion when a townie wouldnt feel that way considering where were at at this point in the game
 

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Because Kevin has expressed a desire to off them both, I dont feel the need to make his choice the deciding factor in my choice. Meanwhile his stances on both Fan and Ran push a bit down in my eyes
 

#HBC | marshy

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Real talk from memory I do not remember you putting a case towards lynching Lore at all so you might want to quote yourself of that

Also the logic doesnt equally apply to both lore and soup because of the oracle claim. I feel they can both be scum. In the event that I'm wrong on Soup, I get a bonus read on Kevin. - have you not seen me post that before?
ah. i have. its just i dont think thats a great reason. if soups town it just opens the wifom game of whether scum just kill him or go for a consensus townie in anticipation of a potential jailkeep. its not that useful; what we need is a scumflip
 

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Yeah I guess technically that counts but it feels hella early and hella soft

But to your credit you touch on lore often in my reread notes

I'm not trying to hold you accountable for wanting to lynch lore even though you're voting soup. I get that when you turn it around towards me, it doesnt align

I'm now just wondering if you haven't seen me visible with the dilemma or not
 

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Sure, I get it. It isnt great but it is genuinely where I'm at. And you're taking it for what you can, regardless of your intent.
 

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i mean from memory im the one who made a case on lore d1 which led to sentiment against him. but since that time i was interacting with soup ive felt stronger going there

like, im voting my top scumread. youre not and justified killing the one you think is likelier town when both are doable/on the chopping block. how am i supposed to interpret that?
Why did you feel the need to point out that you were "first" instead of simply answering the question with your current read? Your d1 case and your current read should be vastly different, at least in terms of evidence/thoughts even if the overall read stays the same.
 

#HBC | marshy

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theres a world where youre just a townie wrestling with a decision. youre not on my shoot list and ive considered that youre a townie whos just kinda paranoid

but ive got to consider the flipside. this game has been rather stagnant (tho theres def some life now and an avenue to keep the momentum going) and i was surprised to see the lore counterwagon surge. makes me wonder if this is a coordinated effort. so ive got to pick at things for the sake of fleshing out my reads in whats been a narrow scope for town

im basically just arguing that a townie should always vote his top scumread
 

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im basically just arguing that a townie should always vote his top scumread
I don't recall you bringing this up about Ran. If you have, I apologize; I must have missed it.

But if you haven't said it about Ran, why is Ran getting a free pass? Please don't quote his meta on this either; him being "nervous" to pressure you may sound good with meta, but if it was literally any other player, it would be suspicious.
 

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Why did you feel the need to point out that you were "first" instead of simply answering the question with your current read? Your d1 case and your current read should be vastly different, at least in terms of evidence/thoughts even if the overall read stays the same.
he said i could quote myself so i thought back to the initial post i made to illustrate my point
 

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I don't recall you bringing this up about Ran. If you have, I apologize; I must have missed it.

But if you haven't said it about Ran, why is Ran getting a free pass? Please don't quote his meta on this either; him being "nervous" to pressure you may sound good with meta, but if it was literally any other player, it would be suspicious.
i got bad news for you boyo

the situations aside from that are different. were talking about tied wagons, on the day of the lynch, with 2 slots weve been struggling with all game. this is a critical juncture in the game thats vital to flesh out
 
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