Whose Mafia Is it Anyway - Game Over!

[Lore]

Anyway I see Lore and soup being wagoned. I think they are both town. Honestly without re-reading feel like Marshy is scum. If we are really trying to save Soup, Marshy is probably the way to go. Not Lore.

Also while I'm glad to see you attempting a push against Marshy, you really need to substantiate it if you really mean to make this push. As is, it feels like a quick and consequence-free attempt to appease the criticism of you not going for Marshy.

It is weird that you would ask that right now instead when I called your push townie.

Considering the fact that I made a full case against you and directly argued with you over it, I think it's pretty clear that I want to understand your reasoning and motivations for things. Even a town read on me.

 

[giraffelasergun]

Deadline is at 8 PM CST, 5 hours from this post.

Votecount:

Soup (4): Marshy, Pythag, Fandangox, Lore
FrozenFlame(1): Soup
Lore(4): Ryker, FrozenFlame, KevinM, Gorf

Not Voting(2): Tom, Ranmaru,

With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch.

 

[ranmaru]

Town lore flip I would say the same, marshy!scum. Not as confident as I would be if soup flipper tien because soup is your main push right now. Scum!lore, soup scum due to overconfidence.

 

[ranmaru]

Damn It phone. flipped scum* because soup

 

[ranmaru]

I can’t follow a single one of Rans posts

yo get at me Kevin

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

ran when 5 minutes to deadline comes and both wagons are at l1, are you voting soup or lore?

 

[Lore]

what about on town!lore and scum!lore flips?

Quick question Marshy, why exactly are you pushing me so hard?

Using Tom's notes as a quick reference from lack of mental energy.

#HBC | marshy -

Spoiler

-#255: marshyvLore in one of Lore’s “misunderstandings”
-#258: asks Gorf’s take on Ryker and Spak. Asks Ryker about his vote on Lore.
-#317: asks pythag to break down development of Lore-Spak TvT becoming a Spak vote after Gorf’s Spak=Doop case. Also asks of Pythag feels about Gorf. - these are purposeful questions with a linked thru line and not just random ****
-#345: gorf prolly town if spak flips scum = fair. Marshy doesn’t like Spak, felt reachy & dismissive
-#484: slaps that vote on soup, #489 explains “for being all over the place, i was patient, he give nonsense”
-#512: accusing ryker of mischaracterizing marshy for lecturing soup
-#627: gorf pushing spak is reasonable
-#675-677: shade at soup
-#1028: if soup flip townie clap lore
-#1029: vig soup suggestion. I hadnt thought of it at this point.
-#1035: spak did himself no favors townie!reading the other two wagons. Marshy feels scum ! soup or lore
-#1077: FF-soup connex?
-#1243: ask soup why he starts off voting FF as opposed to pythag, what happened to “white hot FF start”

Spoiler

According to these notes, I don't see anywhere that you made an actual case or argument against me, minus the one very early. I'd like to ask you to show me where, beyond the first bit early D1, where you actually made an argument about me. If you have, then that's a lot better. If not, I've got some major issues with your slot.

You've asked a lot of slots about me and said repeatedly to kill my slot (especially in post flip scenarios), but I don't really see you making arguments about me personally. Even when Tom asked about it, you dredged up a super old post that's hardly even relevant at this point, while also explicitly bringing up and pointing out that you were the first to suspect me.

Cool. You suspected me for early D1 stuff. But where is the reasoning since then? You set up a seed to suspect me, and past that point, you've kinda just ridden the coat tails of other people arguing for my lynch. At most, you've asked other players about things related to me.

And to be blunt, you're either not reading my posts or intentionally going out of your way to ignore things that I have done. There are other examples, but here's one:

this is a problem ive had with this phase

why the **** has no one tried to set up a competing wagon to soup this phase? ive heard some sentiment about the gridlock but hav seen no action

the town has felt choked and stuck this phase. specifically the group of players (like tom, gorf, even kevin a bit) who havent been voting soup

why do you think its likelier that the ppl pushing soup contain scum vs the ppl who are offwagon just chilling? soup has def been getting **** on from the onset and in a world where hes town hes done a decent job of hanging himself. if im scum i just let him die while talking about idle **** elsewhere. in a vacuum im more concerned with ppl keeping their hands free of it than attacking a sinking ship. if a townies uncomfortable with the lynch they hav a responsibility to push elsewhere

I literally was the only one trying to set up a competing wagon, on Ran. Yet you give zero credit for it. Why?

 

[ranmaru]

ran when 5 minutes to deadline comes and both wagons are at l1, are you voting soup or lore?

I vote soup

 

[Lore]

****ed up a spoiler tag, but it works.

Another point: you're flat out disregarding my arguments on Ran based solely on meta, even when I've asked you to consider it without meta.

Hell, you're directly calling out people for not pushing elsewhere, yet when Ran straight up admits it, you shrug it off and ignore it:

this is a problem ive had with this phase

why the **** has no one tried to set up a competing wagon to soup this phase? ive heard some sentiment about the gridlock but hav seen no action

the town has felt choked and stuck this phase. specifically the group of players (like tom, gorf, even kevin a bit) who havent been voting soup

why do you think its likelier that the ppl pushing soup contain scum vs the ppl who are offwagon just chilling? soup has def been getting **** on from the onset and in a world where hes town hes done a decent job of hanging himself. if im scum i just let him die while talking about idle **** elsewhere. in a vacuum im more concerned with ppl keeping their hands free of it than attacking a sinking ship. if a townies uncomfortable with the lynch they hav a responsibility to push elsewhere

Bolded and underlined for emphasis.

 

[Lore]

Also who the **** considers vig shot towards Soup as a decent possibility when we A: didn't have a vig shot last night (which would have helped IMMENSELY with this exact situation) and B: still have zero proof that we have a vig?

 

[Lore]

^ ignore the vig point, double checked and that was pre N1

 

[Tom]

I did earlier entertain the idea of soup's illuminati guiding consecutive mislynches against orange, lore, and soup. I would include marshy and ryker in that scumgroup. IIRC Marshy called me paranoid and it's not like I have anything to say in response.

 

[Tom]

Re soup, lore: The reality is I'm willing to see them both hanged and theory influences my decision on which to choose today. I guess I have to live with that and my other townies will have to decide how they feel about it too.

 

[ranmaru]

Tom what is your read on Fanny again? I know you had big notes on this guy but mobile and want to see a concise version

 

[Lore]

I did earlier entertain the idea of soup's illuminati guiding consecutive mislynches against orange, lore, and soup. I would include marshy and ryker in that scumgroup. IIRC Marshy called me paranoid and it's not like I have anything to say in response.

I mean it's not like name calling is a valid argument against an accusation. Did he have actual valid points beyond dismissing it as "paranoid?"

 

[ranmaru]

Lore what is your read on Kevin?

 

[Lore]

Lore what is your read on Kevin?

Not sure. It really depends on Soup's flip; while I'm extremely confident that he is scum, I'd like actual confirmation before I dive into the pile of WIFOM that would be Soup's fake choice of Kevin.

 

[ranmaru]

What about Kevin's play. Pretend like soup did not target him. What would your read he?

 

[Tom]

Tom what is your read on Fanny again? I know you had big notes on this guy but mobile and want to see a concise version

No actually I didnt have a good summary of him. My reread notes in him had a massive gap where I didnt feel I could glean anything from him from around 700-1200. He asks a lot of questions. I liked him when he was asking me questions. Then I started to get null on him. When Kevin popped off with a bingo read on him got excited. That's honestly it. In my summary I called him "Ryker but without the benefit of the doubt." He could be the all seeing eye.

 

[#HBC | marshy]

Quick question Marshy, why exactly are you pushing me so hard?

im not. ive literally been voting soup for a phase and a half

 

[Tom]

I mean it's not like name calling is a valid argument against an accusation. Did he have actual valid points beyond dismissing it as "paranoid?"

I mean it's not really name calling, it's more his saying I've got nothing to base it on. Which is about as true as it is false.

 

[Lore]

What about Kevin's play. Pretend like soup did not target him. What would your read he?

Honestly I don't think I could make that read right now without accounting for the bias from the Soup flip. It overshadows everything.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Re soup, lore: The reality is I'm willing to see them both hanged and theory influences my decision on which to choose today. I guess I have to live with that and my other townies will have to decide how they feel about it too.

fwiw thats exactly how i feel about me spearheading orange d1

 

[Lore]

im not. ive literally been voting soup for a phase and a half

You went to large lengths to bring up and point out how long you've suspected me, and you've been bringing me up repeatedly in a "kill Lore" context. You're pretty clearly encouraging and fueling the competing wagon, with very little concrete statements in terms of reasoning.

Yeah you're voting Soup, but it's sus to me that you're going to such lengths to fuel the competing wagon despite, as you pointed out, having your vote on Soup for a phase and a half.

For someone who complained about a lack of competing wagons and a lack of non-lore/soup discussion, you're not really doing much to stop it.


I'd also like to point out that you complained about no competing wagon, then indirectly fueled the competing wagon, and have now said that you're not really pushing me.

 

[Tom]

Yeah marshy

 

[Lore]

I mean it's not really name calling, it's more his saying I've got nothing to base it on. Which is about as true as it is false.

Fair, I suppose. Not sure why you backed off from it though. Ryker has been in cruise mode, and Marshy is complaining about a lack of competing wagons while low key fueling-then-denying a competing wagon.

 

[Tom]

Cause I wanna survive til lylo and lose the game myself

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Lore do me a solid and take me waaaay back to early game. you asked pythag the first hypothetical and tom said it was weird as ****. what was your read on the interaction you had with him where he was explaining why your original hypothetical was weird

 

[Lore]

Cause I wanna survive til lylo and lose the game myself

We're only a few hours from deadline, so I'm not sure why you're making a joke post. This is a joke, right?

 

[Tom]

For real though it is definitely a major factor in why I feel Soup has to die - because marshy and Ryker then have to move on, regardless of the color of the flip

 

[Tom]

Hahaha my life is a joke bud

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

ebwop:

your read on the interaction you had with TOM where he was explaining why your original hypothetical was weird

 

[ranmaru]

I am curious about Kevin. If Soup and Lore is scum, Kevin is the third scum.

 

[Pythag]

Cause I wanna survive til lylo and lose the game myself

I didn't realize you were gunning for my position

 

[KevinM]

Just stop Ran please

 

[KevinM]

The way you try and strongarm situations is so inherently anti town it’s incredible. Town needs to start creating leads on D2 and instead you’re trying to set up this incredible WIFOM situation of Lore and Soup both being scum and me being confirmed third scum.

Please pump the brakes. Commit to one moment at a time don’t leave yourself such a stupid out

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

yea ran

 

[Lore]

Lore do me a solid and take me waaaay back to early game. you asked pythag the first hypothetical and tom said it was weird as ****. what was your read on the interaction you had with him where he was explaining why your original hypothetical was weird

He brought up things that were mostly just "weird," like how day vigilante doesn't exist in game etc. He then immediately followed it up with how he just took it as weird.

Later when I asked about it, he brought up first that he's good in LYLO (typical self bragging that tbf we all kinda do when we're hyped up), next that he only accused of general weirdness while Spak went above and beyond. He then pointed out (correctly) that Spak was weirder than me.

The only part that was iffy was the first bit, and tbh I also think him being drunk makes it a pretty keen insight into his mindset. Him the other 3 players he mentioned are pretty damn tight. Let's be real here: people are giving all 4 players a pretty solid pass due to past rad behavior and fond memories. They also remember that they are good players. This felt genuine and drunk!Tom.


Also just realized that I missed the entire post because he started it with "I don't remember what question Lore asked," so I skipped it and assumed it was drunk talk lmao. My b Tom.

Ironically, you said you missed the question then almost immediately answered.

Let me start by saying I dont remember what question Lore asked of me, and I'm on mobile and I can't look back and find it. Lore, please ask me again, and i will answer.

*snipped portion*

Well Spak definitely did give Doop vibes if you correlate the two together like the old SAT analogies that got me into college. But he was town.

Anyways, I think ppl give me the benefit of the doubt for the same reason they give Kevin/marshy/Ryker the benefit of the doubt - only because they trust that if I'm town I'm going to use my brain in lylo.

I also didnt accuse you of rolebaiting and spak did. He reached. He flew higher and his wax wings burned.

Theres 100% truth to the fact that day 1 became only about soup/spak/lore and in that order. You're alive because you weren't as weird as spak, or because you're scum and had help, and I can't tell which.



You're allowed to Ryker this way, and that's fine because I know how hard it is to reach in the dark for alignment confirmations. But this could EASILY be scum playing the mentor for brownie points. I'm worried about it constantly. That is to say, be careful? You're clearing someone for convenience. And I can't blame you, I'm doing it too.

The last Ryker bit is either genuine honesty considering how he went in (on a different post) about the Marshy/Ryker "paranoid" bits, or it's scum projecting. Leaning toward the former, it's more consistent with his other posts.

 

[ranmaru]

I am curious what you mean by strong arm. That is a thing I hear as description if Ryker, not me.

 

[Pythag]

I am curious what you mean by strong arm. That is a thing I hear as description if Ryker, not me.

I don't think they mean strong arm. (correct me if I'm wrong)
It's more, you make conclusions then try to find evidence to fit them, rather than vice versa.
You have a hammer, and make everything a nail.