Whose Mafia Is it Anyway - Game Over!

#HBC | marshy

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ryker

does frozen go to war w/like 1/3 of the game as scum here? what about as partners with soup? whats the angle here?
nvm

i just skimmed over frozen in sleepover mafia where he was scum. hes def the type to bigdick the thread as scum if he thinks he has the argumentative basis to justify his points
 

Lore

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Just got word that a close family friend/neighbor is in the hospital; his brain cancer has returned with a vengeance, along with a bacterial infection that's causing issues that prevent them from doing emergency surgery right now. It's looking like he may not make it.

I'd go up there now, but he doesn't even recognize his own wife. The tumors have spread that far. This man is like a second grandfather to me (I never knew my mom's dad), and I've known him since I was young.

Right now I am waiting on news, but I really don't want to do mafia right now guys. I've admitted I was probably wrong on Ran, or at least that our argument was a total null. My vote is parked on Soup. I just don't have the energy or will to do more. I'd appreciate being allowed to completely hop off the thread for a couple days.
 

Lore

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Before I go, one reply:

this is a problem ive had with this phase

why the **** has no one tried to set up a competing wagon to soup this phase? ive heard some sentiment about the gridlock but hav seen no action

the town has felt choked and stuck this phase. specifically the group of players (like tom, gorf, even kevin a bit) who havent been voting soup

why do you think its likelier that the ppl pushing soup contain scum vs the ppl who are offwagon just chilling? soup has def been getting **** on from the onset and in a world where hes town hes done a decent job of hanging himself. if im scum i just let him die while talking about idle **** elsewhere. in a vacuum im more concerned with ppl keeping their hands free of it than attacking a sinking ship. if a townies uncomfortable with the lynch they hav a responsibility to push elsewhere
Yeah this has been frustrating to experience. I tried with Ran, but it both got shrugged off and I realized it was null in the end. I really would rather have had us lynch Soup earlier if idling was the plan for people, as I've said before.
 

Lore

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Thanks guys. One more short reply.

Lore for what it’s worth and it can be talked about after the game but your specific play style really allows other people to idle in the background because you force so many long dumb 1 v 1s that people can take light stances on or not even comment for literally pages at a time.
After sleeping on it, I realize that the 1v1s are also the reason I tunnel so bad. Tom brought up an excellent point (unless I dreamed it), where the 1v1 just ends up as a feedback loop that makes me more and more certain that the other person is scum. So I agree with you here, unfortunately.
 

Ranmaru

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I'll be sure to re-read and get a reads list tonight. Also dealing with Mario Maker 1 reddit drama.
 

giraffelasergun

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Deadline is in 12 hours from this post.

Votecount:

Soup (4): Marshy, Pythag, Fandangox, Lore
FrozenFlame(1): Soup
Lore(2): Ryker, FrozenFlame

Not Voting(4): Kevinm, Tom, Ranmaru, Gorf

With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch.
 
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KevinM

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Quick way I’m currently seeing the game by the way and excuse me for the scattered thoughts.

Towniest of All Town our crank swinging lord and savior: Me

Like their current reads in this game: Gorf.

Completely avoiding sticking a hard stance on anything but a safe bet: Pythag

Attempting to strong arm the game but not strong arm me/town to victory: Ryker

Finally found his nuts, hoping they’re town nuts but right now they’re null nuts: Tom the love of my life

Lore/Soup we’ve talked about ad infinitum... I’m going to be honest for a moment given how well town knows my ability just wanting to lynch Soup and being resigned to “well give us a reads list because if you clear you die tonight” doesn’t sit well with me for the few people that went with that line of reasoning, go back near the beginning of D2 and read those sentiments there’s probably something worth looking at depending on how this day ends. Also I swear if they end up being TvT which I’m hoping not I’ll be mildly perturbed about how pervasively scummy they play.

Hard to read because they’ve been posting not a whole lot of substance: FF, I mean coming in and agreeing with my posts is a given I’m a genius but even your arguing with Ryker I hate because you guys are mostly arguing about game theory. I know there is an underlying but scum would pick this to draw out CC like Ryker is claiming but this argument is just so safe on either side and I don’t like it.

Hate everything the slot has produced and think their stance flipping is disingenuous: Ranmaru

Fandingo is a bingo, I’m more and more sure as I read their slot that a majority of their pushes are opportunistic or sus. And their questions are usually just a “what’s your read” with no actual meat to it afterwards. Where’s the bravado, the gravitas, the here’s why i led you this way.

Marshy I’m unsure of, i think his slot looks infinitely worse because of his interactions with Kary and Orange and I need to look at D2 to see if I can shake that dirty feeling from him since he’s so damn attractive and I hate when nice things get dirty.
 

KevinM

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More importantly let’s play some hard ball questions instead of one dimensional what’s your read bull****.

Ryker - If this wagon gets shifted off of Soup and we lynch Lore, what are you looking at D3 both on scum or town flips.

Let’s operate under the assumption that there are three scum members.

Tom when you see this, if Marshy dies and flips scum give me his two scum mates knowing how he’s played this game.
 

#HBC | Gorf

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i think everyone would really really benefit from answering the following questions:

1) how strongly do we feel that there is scum between soup and lore?
2) how strongly do we feel about the possibility that theyre both scum

my answers:

1)i feel like the analytical side of my brain says there is definitely scum between soup and lore. there are multiple grievances from before #286 alone (and yes i pretty much went straight to bed after i posted my fat post so thats as far as ive gotten so far, but ive got all Day to keep on keeping on and im moreso prepping for d3 drop than eod2):

soup:

a) soups tendency toward complete hypocrisy when talking about "the lore and soup angles are useless for town," yet he makes near zero push to get anything else going
b) his need to focus on slighting those who scumread him rather than.... scumhunting himself

lore:

a) marshys case on lores early hypotheticals being a means of tryna posture well rather than letting the game organically progress
b) gaaaaaaarbage reasoning for scumreading soup at 227 that he just. ****in. latches. onto. so. damn. hard.
c) to quote the legend himself:

asks questions, agrees, backs away, asks question, digs in hard, backs away, asks questions, agrees, backs away
etc

but i cant help but think of them both being town and just caught in this internal loop of playing ****ty that town is just hellbent on ripping up and scum are content letting play out. i still hold onto that doubt i had eod1 about soup being town and just being mad played, and still hold onto doubt that lore can just be lynchbait. but the arguments for them being scum are so ****ing present and so ****ing hard to dispute.

2) there is near zero chance in my head that theyre scum together. i can not imagine that they, without pressure by scum, feel as inclined to interact with eachother in the way they have in order to bus eachother or deceive town. thats a ****ing stretch and a half
 

KevinM

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kevin your read list looks like its riding under zero assumption of soup or lore town/scum flip. correct me if im wrong, ignore me or say something funny if im right
It’s operating independent of their flip currently correct although a few pages back I posted what I think possible teams are based off flip.
 

Lore

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So work is completely dead (I do IT and zero work tickets have come in so far), and I'm finding myself wanting distraction due to everything going on.

I don't intend to dive deep or really question people, but if anyone wants to tag me to answer questions or bounce ideas I'd really welcome it.
 

Fandangox

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This is a pretty decent point, oracle is a very low stakes PR for a high risk fake claim. scum!soup is better served risking getting counterclaimed by a more potent role and at minimum in an alternate universe where we lynched soup day 1 and he turned out to be scum, scum now have ez pickings on his CCer and/or forces town to jail to keep the PR alive thus neutering it. Soup's play hasn't been great I'm not gonna argue with that but like the claim makes no sense as a scum move imo. Claiming oracle doesn't give us a reason to let him live beyond making his one selection and after he does so it puts even more pressure on his slot to flip to get us the info from it. Like seriously from a scum perspective a fake oracle claim is room temp IQ ****. Maybe scum!soup just didn't think about what he was doing at all and yolo claimed it without actually weighing it against other possible fake claims but yeah, not what I'm feeling here
You seriously think Scum in any game would think town counter claiming their fakeclaim Day 1 (let alone one from SOUP) be a viable, risky strategy? When has that ever happened here? And you admit his play isn't great yet have him as your second highest townrea? Is this because you are scumreading Lore and thus assume both players are not aligned?
 

KevinM

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Kevin showing on deadline day, providing a competing wagon for the sake of it, when the alternate wagon is the slot he stood on Day 1 for still only for the almost hammer of Ryker as of post #503 when the worst-case scenario of Soup being town would still give us a Kevin clear.

I’ve been here for the last couple days it’s just my stances continuously have evolved where as yours are just the safest possible ones you can take to avoid scrutiny.

We’ll be talkin bby
 

KevinM

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Also if you think my 503 is indicative of how I see Mafia and just not me wanting to interact with a leading question from a slot that hadn’t given us much up until that point we’ve got a long day ahead of us.
 

Fandangox

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i think everyone would really really benefit from answering the following questions:

1) how strongly do we feel that there is scum between soup and lore?
2) how strongly do we feel about the possibility that theyre both scum
I feel very strongly on there being scum in one of those slots.

Now I know I have been the one to still say its possible they could BOTH be scum, both of their plays have been individually scummy, but Lore apologizing to Soup about being to Snarky and his #1,675 would indicate that for both to be scum together they would have to both be in the AoE play and is faked between them and I haven't played with Lore before and I dont know if that's something they can pull off.
 

Fandangox

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I’ve been here for the last couple days it’s just my stances continuously have evolved where as yours are just the safest possible ones you can take to avoid scrutiny.

We’ll be talkin bby
You've been here, but your Lore vote seems more than it is for the sake of shaking things up than because you are scumreading him (and I know you said you are scumreading him. Like by your #1,486 you were scumreading him as of page 10 of your re-read but what do you think of the slot now at this point? Why Lore and not Soup?
 

KevinM

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You've been here, but your Lore vote seems more than it is for the sake of shaking things up than because you are scumreading him (and I know you said you are scumreading him. Like by your #1,486 you were scumreading him as of page 10 of your re-read but what do you think of the slot now at this point? Why Lore and not Soup?
Waiting for Ryker before I really get into this but a lot of it has to do with me not liking how people are extremely ok with a Soup lynch and the consequent “welp once he dies if he clears you you’re dead too” WIFOM that everyone seemed ok with near the start of his reveal that he oracled me. The rest we will wait on until Ryker gets here since he’s on this Lore wagon with me and also seems to be 99.9 percent sure Soup is scum.
 

Fandangox

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I mean you've got not nothing to lose from my PoV. Either Soup is lying and is Scum, or he's telling the truth, and the question marks on your slot disappear.
I don't think there's a lot of Wifom involved in this specific scenario.

I'd make more sense for you to not vote Soup if you are townreading him, but your stance on that still not completely clear as of your latest posts.
 

KevinM

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Nothing to lose minus mislynching a townie on D2 with no scum hit already, a game that’s basically been tunneled entirely on two slots, and becoming a cleared slot in a game with no doctor. But yeah other than that it is clearly win win.
 

Fandangox

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Yeah like I said, if you are townreadin him, it makes sense.

But what am I supposed to get from this?

Lore/Soup we’ve talked about ad infinitum... I’m going to be honest for a moment given how well town knows my ability just wanting to lynch Soup and being resigned to “well give us a reads list because if you clear you die tonight” doesn’t sit well with me for the few people that went with that line of reasoning, go back near the beginning of D2 and read those sentiments there’s probably something worth looking at depending on how this day ends. Also I swear if they end up being TvT which I’m hoping not I’ll be mildly perturbed about how pervasively scummy they play.[/QUOTE]

It seems you start to change your stance on these slots being scum, and start implicating suspicion on those that have argued against them, but then say you "hope" they are not both TvT which means you are still scumreading one of them to some extent, and I assume you are since you are voting Lore.
 

Fandangox

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ebwop:

Yeah like I said, if you are townreadin him, it makes sense.

But what am I supposed to get from this?

Lore/Soup we’ve talked about ad infinitum... I’m going to be honest for a moment given how well town knows my ability just wanting to lynch Soup and being resigned to “well give us a reads list because if you clear you die tonight” doesn’t sit well with me for the few people that went with that line of reasoning, go back near the beginning of D2 and read those sentiments there’s probably something worth looking at depending on how this day ends. Also I swear if they end up being TvT which I’m hoping not I’ll be mildly perturbed about how pervasively scummy they play.
It seems you start to change your stance on these slots being scum, and start implicating suspicion on those that have argued against them, but then say you "hope" they are not both TvT which means you are still scumreading one of them to some extent, and I assume you are since you are voting Lore.
 

KevinM

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I haven’t changed my stance on either slot as hard as you seem to be coming to the conclusion too. I’m simply trying to at least spread out a web of connections in this game lest we see a second mislynch in a game where most people haven’t interested with too much outside of the perceived only two lynches of the day for two straight days
 

KevinM

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Your saying “nothing to lose” is far more blatant a misrepresentation of the game than me saying “wanting to lynch Soup immediately at the beginning of D2 and just admitting that me as collateral damage is an unfortunate side effect” doesn’t sit right with me.
 
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