Whose Mafia Is it Anyway - Game Over!

[ranmaru]

I think Orange is a great competing wagon.

 

[Tom]

Lore: I disagree with you, i dont believe you've measured the possibility of Soup!Oracle bc it doesnt appear you ever intended to, possibly bc you know hes Oracle

But I'm also castlevania memeing and dont mean to insult you

I've had my vote on you all game so you might deserve a reread but at the same time I dont know if itll change my opinion at all

Can you either elaborate for me on your thoughts on Soup!Oracle or point me to where you've already done it?

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

i think pythag OR orange can be great but tbh right now i want orange to do work to get the pythag wagon rolling. there are enough people curious about pythag and orange has enough of a read to make a vote. i want the case! lay it out! youre gonna kill soup if you dont!

 

[Lore]

People have finally begun to do things that are useful and you set him to L1 with Ran out there.

Fair. Unvote

I will be putting it back on tonight before bed, make no mistake there.

Shockingly bad answer to a simple question.

There's a lot to unpack in the post, but the ending 'I hope Ryker/Kary will tell me if I am incorrectly townreading them' is just blisteringly stupid.

Nah I just want to know if my judgment of the intent of your actions was correct. I think I see your point though.

 

[OrangeXhtml]

how does that make sense for scum to do though? its just a null senseless ****ing vote. trust me i agree that its weird. but its weird no matter what alignment you are

i dont accept "hes not scum hunting, hes pandering to the thread" as an acceptable answer here. i need you do me a favor and lay out, specifically and in your own words, what it is that you see that tells you he is more interested in pandering rather than scumhunting and explain to me how you see it that way. i am essentially accusing you of the same thing that youre accusing pythag of, because quite frankly, aside from the kary stuff (which has been rebutted against that your slot has decided to ignore) and the pythag stuff (which your slot has and im sure after this you will continue to ignore), there is you defending slots and just saying things that dont hold much value and passing by. i would like to see you scumhunt. please. do that. saying pythag is pandering isnt scumhunting. thats phoning it in.

Nah, I don't have the energy to go back and quote a bunch of stuff. Off the top of my head, his responses to Lore, he is simply attempting to look open and honest. Him agreeing immediately with your Doop comparison to Spak. All of these come off as pandering. I have been scum hunting and I think I've said plenty about Pythag. I'm not convinced you'll change your read on my slot, even though I think your reasoning is weak (comparing Spak to Doop is silly), so this will be my last response to you.

 

[Lore]

Lore: I disagree with you, i dont believe you've measured the possibility of Soup!Oracle bc it doesnt appear you ever intended to, possibly bc you know hes Oracle

But I'm also castlevania memeing and dont mean to insult you

I've had my vote on you all game so you might deserve a reread but at the same time I dont know if itll change my opinion at all

Can you either elaborate for me on your thoughts on Soup!Oracle or point me to where you've already done it?

Gotcha, it wasn't an insult or anything. It was just ****ing weird lol. Thanks for the explanation.

Will answer the rest in a bit, my SO's father just showed up at our house for some reason. Likely a positive one.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

My vote isn't there no, so there is no sense in removing it now if you're gonna add it back. I'm not hammering while there's stuff to be gained.

 

[Tom]

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Votecount (not guaranteed)

Soup (4): Kary, Kevin, Fandangox, marshy,
Lore (1): Tom,
OrangeXHTML (4): Gorf, Frozen Flame, Pythag, Ranmaru
Pythag(2): OrangeXHTML, Soup

Not Voting(1): Ryker, Lore

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Nah, I don't have the energy to go back and quote a bunch of stuff. Off the top of my head, his responses to Lore, he is simply attempting to look open and honest. Him agreeing immediately with your Doop comparison to Spak. All of these come off as pandering. I have been scum hunting and I think I've said plenty about Pythag. I'm not convinced you'll change your read on my slot, even though I think your reasoning is weak (comparing Spak to Doop is silly), so this will be my last response to you.

I love JeXs, but goddamn I hate JeXs.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

lore ALSO has ****ing admitted to having near zero scumhunting perspective outside of soup (please dont make me ****ing dig for it its the one where he felt like listing pythag and ff as possible sus for their reaction to my joke or whatever) for this entire phase and would severely benefit from being lynched and having a wagon on him since he has found himself incredibly comfortable sawing soups pp off all game and doing nothing else. id lead a wagon against but that would require arguing a case and i really dont feel like doing that so if someone out there scumreads lore have at it bby ill be your ****ing megaphone

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Vote Lore

Consider me still on Soup in spirit. Seeing my name under Not Voting makes me sick.

 

[OrangeXhtml]

On Lore: I'd be voting for them in a heartbeat, if I didn't think they are unlikely to be scum with Pythag. I'm pretty convinced Pythag is scum.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

On Lore: I'd be voting for them in a heartbeat, if I didn't think they are unlikely to be scum with Pythag. I'm pretty convinced Pythag is scum.

So,.... who is on that scum team?

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Is it still me, Kary, and Kev?

 

[Fandangox]

That's the second time Lore has a rather unfortunate timing on a Soup vote.

Either one of them is good for me, butI still want KevinM to weight in before we lynch any of them

 

[ranmaru]

I honestly feel it is more insider knowledge as in being the same alignment. That early soup vote sticks out to me.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

We might actually have an eleventh hour scramble this phase. This makes me happy.

 

[Fandangox]

Shockingly bad answer to a simple question.

There's a lot to unpack in the post, but the ending 'I hope Ryker/Kary will tell me if I am incorrectly townreading them' is just blisteringly stupid.

Well, anything specific that caught your attention there, aside from that?

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Fandangox I can go back and unpack more stuff out of that post if you want, it's not clear why you're asking. The thing is that I have a provisional townread on Lore because I think it would be suicidally stupid for a scum Lore to hop on the soup waggon in the way that he did, putting himself into the lynchpool on purpose and with such a weak justification for doing so. I don't know how Lore plays as scum but I assume it is a little more savvy than that.

 

[Tom]

I've come to the conclusion

I'm not good at this game but my playstyle is

 

[Tom]

Except when I disappear and get lynched

Dont count that

 

[Lore]

I think me being sick was just a (very) upset stomach from food last night, and resting today helped. SO's dad would like to take us out to dinner, so I'm coming along and getting something mild. Making some replies first while we are riding.

Lore: I disagree with you, i dont believe you've measured the possibility of Soup!Oracle bc it doesnt appear you ever intended to, possibly bc you know hes Oracle

But I'm also castlevania memeing and dont mean to insult you

I've had my vote on you all game so you might deserve a reread but at the same time I dont know if itll change my opinion at all

Can you either elaborate for me on your thoughts on Soup!Oracle or point me to where you've already done it?

Nah I just hardcore don't believe Soup, and I admittedly haven't thought much on the alternative that he's telling the truth. I've laid out my reasoning for not believing him.

Honestly he feels like a scum PR wanting to get in at least one night action.

Tbh I may be falling into my old habit of tunneling. Do you mind if I think on an "if town!Soup" timeline and get back to you on that after dinner?

My vote isn't there no, so there is no sense in removing it now if you're gonna add it back. I'm not hammering while there's stuff to be gained.

True, then Vote: Soup.

lore ALSO has ****ing admitted to having near zero scumhunting perspective outside of soup (please dont make me ****ing dig for it its the one where he felt like listing pythag and ff as possible sus for their reaction to my joke or whatever) for this entire phase and would severely benefit from being lynched and having a wagon on him since he has found himself incredibly comfortable sawing soups pp off all game and doing nothing else. id lead a wagon against but that would require arguing a case and i really dont feel like doing that so if someone out there scumreads lore have at it bby ill be your ****ing megaphone

This is willfully ignoring all my non-soup interactions and questioning.

 

[ranmaru]

Sorry about that

 

[Fandangox]

Fandangox I can go back and unpack more stuff out of that post if you want, it's not clear why you're asking. The thing is that I have a provisional townread on Lore because I think it would be suicidally stupid for a scum Lore to hop on the soup waggon in the way that he did, putting himself into the lynchpool on purpose and with such a weak justification for doing so. I don't know how Lore plays as scum but I assume it is a little more savvy than that.

That read on Lore depends entirely on wifom.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Oh, I forgot to grab that quote about Soup's ""hammer."

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

#439 is why the whole situation around Soup's hammer is disgusting as ****.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Nah, I don't have the energy to go back and quote a bunch of stuff. Off the top of my head, his responses to Lore, he is simply attempting to look open and honest. Him agreeing immediately with your Doop comparison to Spak. All of these come off as pandering. I have been scum hunting and I think I've said plenty about Pythag. I'm not convinced you'll change your read on my slot, even though I think your reasoning is weak (comparing Spak to Doop is silly), so this will be my last response to you.

thanks i really appreciate you responding in such a way that highlights my case beautifully well. ill be sure to use this against you when i say that youre phoning in your scumhunting.

-his responses to lores hypotheticals? i dont ****ing agree with you because those are dumb answers to dumb questions. explain yourself.
-he agreed to my doop spak comparison after kevin, so it wasnt immediate. its also not pandering to the thread opinion because nobody ****ing thought that or was really pushing for you in any way at the time. for all intents and purposes, that was against the general course of the thread at the time, which was allllllllllllll lore vs soup.
-i dont agree that youve been scumhunting and im about to quote every instance before you just came in where you or spak have said things about pythag. its riveting:

Also, I don't like that Pythag seems to just be rolling with the general thread opinion. He was fine with my interactions with Lore at the time, then he said that my interactions reminded him of Doop after Gorf's post, he voted FF out of the blue, then he transitioned to thinking I'm a little scummy after that but never swapped the vote over. He seems to be just floating along with thread opinion, which makes me believe that he's either a little scum or an extremely suggestible townie.

Pythag is scum, and most likely not with Lore. It'd be pretty weird for Lore to single out Pythag twice for their silly hypothetical questions if they were both scum together. I don't like Pythag's responses to Lore's hypotheticals, especially the second time around. It comes off as pandering and trying to look open and honest. He has also had no intention to scum hunt this game. His #389 gives the impression that he has no desire to analyze anything in thread, completely misconstruing what Fan was doing.

this last sentence here is your best analysis of anything against pythag. but its hard to give you points for that when i literally beat you to it in my 391. im just not tryna fake a scumread

Following up, his vote on FF makes zero sense, especially considering that he felt Spak was scummy after Gorf's post.

and then the string we have had thus far. this read is absolutely phoned in. the worst part is, i dont hate the read itself. im intrigued with pythag. but the way youre going about it is just screaming scum feigning content and doing what they can to get on the good side of a mislynch that hes not involved in. youre not ****ing campaigning for the lynch without me trying to drag ****ing **** out of you dawg!

-you are well off not responding to me. itll make it much easier for you not to trap yourself and out yourself to everyone if you just stop responding to me, so yes, ignore me. see ya postgame.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Anyway, what reminded me is that I'm going through Spak's posts. As of Tuesday, he'd only really talked to/about Lore and his hypotheticals. That's weak, but w/e. What I was going to point out is that the only comment he makes about Soup's hammer is to say it was L-1, not hammer.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

The big thing I'm looking for is the reasoning for why Lore vs Pythag can't be SvS atm since it's recent and relevant.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

This is willfully ignoring all my non-soup interactions and questioning.

i have been pretty much willfully ignoring you, yes. but its also me happening to have read this:

I was unvoted on Soup due to wanting to hear from the rest of his wagon. I'd rather not risk a hammer while we were discussing the pros and cons. Now that @#HBC | FrozeηFlame has stated his thoughts, he needs to unvote since he sounds like he believes the claim. Will reread his big post and ask some questions, I've got some gut feelings on it.

If he doesn't unvote (or state he's keeping his vote) by the time of his next post, I'll be voting again.

Soup is repeatedly inconsistent, as I've stated before. His outburst was one big pile of miserable AtE (legit frustration or not), and if he's a scum PR (as I currently believe, as stated), the Oracle role was the single best one he could pick to fake claim. A role that only gives results upon death means that Town is more likely to let him live another day, confident that he can just be lynched after he gets a result. The fact that he claimed super early just makes me feel more confident that this is the case.


After that, I will be diving into Ran D2. His sudden turn towards me after I brought up the weirdness of his setup (and how it relates to a scum!Soup flip) was extremely oddly timed. I'd like to figure out if it was OMGUS or a scum action.

I also feel similarly to Tom about FF and Pythag's reaction to Gorf's joke. Those are two slots I'll be looking into as well.

Spak, I'm pretty 50/50 on. I think the early game actions were still pretty weird, and Soup bringing him up repeatedly feels odd to my gut. But everything past the beginning of the game seems decent, and I have no clue about this slot.

All other slots are pretty null, with various small things either as pros or cons. We've had a pretty narrow focus this game so far, which leads to less info on many slots. The only exceptions are two town slots, and since I haven't actually given town reads yet this game, I'll share them.

Kary and Ryker. I firmly believe that their early D1 reaction to me was meant to convey that their reasoning-light votes were done for the sake of pressure, and if they were scum, I feel like it would have instead been a great opportunity to push my lynch. I already had heat on me, and they could just go "so now you're suspecting people due to pressure votes?" and shifted the pressure from Soup to me.

For that, I'm currently reading them as town. I'd dearly love a correction from either slot if I am incorrect in my interpretations of their actions.

and going "wow lore really ****ing has done nothing outside of soup" if you think ran is your second strongest scumread for that and ff/pythag are 3rd and 4th people you wanna look into because of like one thing.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

#325 is their first vote for Pythag, their first defense of Soup (via condemning Kary's direction between Lore and Soup), and continued defense of Lore.

 

[ranmaru]

I have Pythag as null and his actions line up with his last game. (Misreading things, as Gorf noticed after Pythag voted Spak) I have no reason to believe he is scum though.

 

[Tom]

Marshy ask me questions

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

325 is also where the line about Pythag just rolling with the game starts. It's apparently consistent and strong for them seeing as it's still here despite Pythag not being here and a lot of **** happening around Soup.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

OrangeXhtml please update me on your read on Kary. If you could have that lynch, would you be pursuing it and why?

 

[Lore]

Waiting on our table, quick reply.

i have been pretty much willfully ignoring you, yes. but its also me happening to have read this:



and going "wow lore really ****ing has done nothing outside of soup" if you think ran is your second strongest scumread for that and ff/pythag are 3rd and 4th people you wanna look into because of like one thing.

Dude. You can't go "yeah Lore is the one I want gone" after admitting you're ignoring my stuff. At least read it, this is lazy as hell.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Well, anything specific that caught your attention there, aside from that?

I mean, it's weird that he's announcing what he's planning to do later, and that this doesn't seem to depend on any flip. It's not as if his concern about Ranmaru is explained in any sort of context of Ran's play pattern or Lore's existing read, he just sort of says "I'm going to investigate this!"

Oh also he seems to be sheeping other people's opinions recently. Although he openly admits to it ("I feel similar to Tom...") so that does confuse me as to what level of self-awareness he is playing on if he's mafia.

That read on Lore depends entirely on wifom.

I don't agree? It relies on the belief that scum are in general afraid of taking risks and being in the spotlight, yet Lore was apparently oblivious to the risk and didn't seem to have any particular strategy in attacking soup. I think that's worth a provisional read.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

The Lore town lean is mostly strong gut/meta; interacting with them this game felt identical to last, and while I don't necessarily like their decision making some of the time, it's consistent and feels genuine. I feel like scum!Lore would've backed off and not gone for hypothetical #2; it seems like they were legitimately trying to work their way out of RVS (as aimless as early-game hypotheticals are), and most scum would try to back out of the spotlight after catching some heat (or at least not repeat the same thing). I understand the Lore wagon from the perspective of slots that haven't had heavy interaction with Lore in the past, but I'm willing to put a lot of the accusations against Lore on playstyle rather than alignment.

Does this hold up? You've gotten significantly more content and you've got recent events to weigh as well.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Pythag is scum, and most likely not with Lore. It'd be pretty weird for Lore to single out Pythag twice for their silly hypothetical questions if they were both scum together. I don't like Pythag's responses to Lore's hypotheticals, especially the second time around. It comes off as pandering and trying to look open and honest. He has also had no intention to scum hunt this game. His #389 gives the impression that he has no desire to analyze anything in thread, completely misconstruing what Fan was doing.

Here it is.

Pythag and Lore aren't scum because Lore asked him two questions at the start.