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Whose Mafia Is it Anyway - Game Over!

#HBC | Gorf

toastin walrus since 4/20 maaaan
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i mean thats fair but again i dont really give a **** about that. itd still require scum to make a dank play, whereas all oracle!soup has to do is use his pr and we get a clear. imo best case for lynching soup at this time is that hes made himself a liability on top of how resistant he was initially to play ball post claim.

if we REALLY wanna dive into role wifom i can sit here and say why would scum have their rolecop fake claim oracle and put themselves on blast. for all we know scum might not even have prs. idk. that being a point of contention just seems really dumb
 

giraffelasergun

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Soup (5): Kary, Kevin, Ryker, Fandangox, marshy
Lore (2): Tom, ranmaru
OrangeXHTML (3): Gorf, Frozen Flame, Pythag
Pythag(2): OrangeXHTML, Soup

Not Voting(1): Lore

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch. Deadline is in 35 hours and 40 minutes from this post.
 

#HBC | ѕoup

The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.
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Post coming later today. I'm at the DMV right now.

I still prefer to not be lynched, and would like for people to give me Oracle suggestions as of this post
 

ranmaru

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I am cool with lynching Soup once Frozen Flame gives his take.
 

#HBC | ѕoup

The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.
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Before I make my post I want to ask anyone who is on me something--

Who's bussing me? If I'm so obvious not to ignore why would my own mates pass up the opportunity to get towncred? People who have told me that I'm not scumhunting, being reactionary have to understand I have been a leading wagon for literally 3 IRL days. I've been sitting here trying to figure who's opportunistic scum for a while but it really frustrated not being able to move on from something I no longer cared about. My anger got the best of me because I do care and I dont wanna be worthless, but I've also gotten little room to breathe in the first place.
 

ranmaru

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Ask again later toDay.



Just realized that "hbc meme" would literally be the easiest cover for scum to quick lynch day 1 ever. For someone to be that casually cool with it D1 in such a big game (and as a redo game for a game that got ruined, no less) makes me suspicious now.

Vote: Soup
 

#HBC | ѕoup

The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.
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What do I gain defending spak if hes my mate? There are some seriously awful connections being made on the basis of convenience. If you lynch me before I'm able to get home I urge you to stop giving people passes and directing blame for not listening to the hivemind, because its seriously ****ing scary that everyone who has been on me has been mostly townread me and people who have defended me are close to scum. It even happened with ranmaru until he got this stupid idea me and spak are somehow scym together.
 

ranmaru

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I don't expect Orange to say anything, and I do agree with Kary that it is odd they chose to focus on Pythag instead of the very loud Soup explosion. They just viewed too.
 

#HBC | ѕoup

The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.
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Having blind confidence is not the same as following through, ran. You shouldn't assume something makes sense and then never change your mind, you should consider everything that might get you to reconsider or perhaps look into other perspectives. You somehow think it's a good idea to settle.

Tell me-- Why isnt it that scum are just ok with my death? If lore is the only person bussing me then what are they doing right now?
 

#HBC | ѕoup

The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.
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The reason I started to feel I'm wrong on lore is because hes taken risks, even if they're a bit obnoxious. I don't appreciate getting bludgeoned over the head but at least he swung at me.

What are the others opinions of me on my wagon?

KevinM- I'm drunk and I'm town RVS vote bad
Tom - You were mean and didnt answer a question you already did like 10 times. RVS vote bad
Kary - RVS Vote bad, havent read your other posts
Ryker- RVS vote bad, you vote me and I'm spiteful
Marshy - Cringe for showing emotion and being mad, idk maybe RVS vote bad?
Fanny - RVS Vote bad, btw I havent given a reads list myself but demand one anyways

You really think this entire wagon is town, ranmaru?
 

Tom

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Kary or Gorf they contribute regardless of alignment and aren't marshy/Ryker/Kevin
 

Lore

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I'm a little sick today, think I caught a bug at the game. Luckily I had today off.

Will be here on and off, etc etc. I'm really ****ing bad at actually staying away from the game, but I also feel like **** today so let's see what happens.
 

#HBC | Kary

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dont like spak. thought he was reachy when first shading lore and awkward earlier in the game. and feel like hes too dismissive of lore/soup in a way that makes me wonder if hes scum with knowledge. im fine with the push/pressure and i wanna see where his thing with pythag goes
Can you please elaborate on the bolded and why Spak as scum would want to ignore lore/soup ?

Related, what do you think of Gorf's direction in pushing Spak (since this could be seen as avoiding lore/soup) ?

welp

at least soup dies one way or another
I haven't played with an Oracle role before so I wasn't sure what to make of this at first. But having thought about it my impression is that there is no particularly strong reason for mafia to kill a town soup in a closed setup where he isn't clear. So I wanted to know your thoughts that led to this reaction.

Thanks xxx
 

Tom

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Kary - well ive only played 1 half game with to now where you were town, so I guess "regardless of alignment" is to be determined and was more to describe Gorf being scum last game. You seem to be parsing the thread and noticing discrepancies (ex: my "spak can hang" to "spak can stay" transition after reread), as well as challenging people to think (asking lore why you voted, noting where you dont feel orange has thought things thru) so you're contributing. But you are hard to read for me, your statements are strong and sometimes terse.
 

#HBC | Ryker

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I don't have an amazing read on those slots, but I'll just give you what I've got on all three since it would take something changing for me to lynch any of them.

Kev is probably the slot I like least of the three in a vacuum, but if I'm right on Soup, I'm fine with Kev because of his wagon positioning and the fact he didn't wuss out. Beyond that, he's not done much, but that's Kev. Hasn't made me want to shoot him.

Tom is probably the slot I like most in a vacuum. He's cooperative and he's taken the initiative in letting me know what he's thinking with his readlist. However, if Soup flips scum, he's the one I would probably want most because of the way he's sat around the outside of the Soup wagon. This doesn't mean I want to shove a lynch down Tom's throat if Soup flips scum. He wouldn't be near the top of my list then.

Marshy is in the middle on all counts. Aside from the weird comment on how he doesn't appreciate me saying he was lecturing Soup, I don't think he's done much that's off color, but he's also not done as much as Tom to make me feel good about him. On a Soup scum flip or on a Soup town flip, I'm okay with how that vote happened. The question I asked him was to double check because at the point he voted was the point I got sick of Soup.
 

#HBC | Kary

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Kary - well ive only played 1 half game with to now where you were town, so I guess "regardless of alignment" is to be determined and was more to describe Gorf being scum last game. You seem to be parsing the thread and noticing discrepancies (ex: my "spak can hang" to "spak can stay" transition after reread), as well as challenging people to think (asking lore why you voted, noting where you dont feel orange has thought things thru) so you're contributing. But you are hard to read for me, your statements are strong and sometimes terse.
Okay, fair. I'm not going to try and rinse you over a word choice.

But, in #245 you have me in your 'should stay' pile. Why now do you think I should be checked?
 

#HBC | ѕoup

The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.
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I feel I've left bits and pieces of my arguments but if it takes a full, cohesive wall to lay down my thoughts I'll do it. Whatever you have against me in my mannerisms, emotions can be discussed post-game, but I assure you from this point forward I'm leaving all of that at the door. I will preface this by saying a good way to relieve stress is sometimes to just let it all out in one big explosion, but I understand how that may seem messy.

Let's get into it.

On why I distrust the current gamestate -

I'm going to try and not talk about myself because I'm tired of doing it, rather I'm going to talk about everything surrounding me. I find that scum are more than happy following the direction of town if it means it doesn't detour into one of their mates. I think what has me most puzzled is the fact people have been one of Lore/Spak should be scum, but this just confuses me. I don't feel scum have felt anything close to pressure right now and correct me if I'm wrong-- there's not many powerwolves in DGames. I think the typical norm and the reason town loses so much is that in-fighting happens and all scum has to do is write agreeable posts. This can be attributed to how people felt about Gorf in the last game, to which he admitted to the same effect.

I believe this game is getting close to the same scenario as that one, and it's been my concern for a while. I've yet to latch onto many strong townreads, even admitting to my own bias of people who agree with me. I start to wonder this fact though: Are people just giving each other passes because they are in line with their own thoughts, or is it something more sinister? I've probably directed this question in many ways but somehow it's gotten ignored, and the least I can do while in the spotlight is try to explain why I feel this way. Scum don't exactly need to create chaos, their job is to either intervene when opportunity strikes or continue to press forward in the (wrong) direction town has laid in front of them. Biased as it may seem, I really do think a good chunk of scum are down with me dying, and if I may exclaim that perhaps my poor attitude and outbursts has attributed to that, I know how easy it to fake a read on me.

Am I saying all scum are on me? No, but I know for a fact that trying to justify my lynch is far easier than anyone else. I dunno why, but people seem to like..doubt themselves sometimes. Why the **** is Ryker/Marshy/Tom/Kevin/Kary all close to being townread? I've yet to get in any of their heads and for marshy's example he hasn't even followed through on his thoughts with Lore. Is it because he's marshy that he is held to a standard? Maybe that makes sense in hindsight, maybe that's why most of you have trouble with me, but I think playstyle doesn't compensate for genuine interest. I'm like, almost certain one of those people I mentioned or maybe even two of them are just letting town make bad decisions and playing it off as nothing. My vibes on marshy haven't gotten any better, but it's disappointing he takes so much effort to lynch or even read (can maybe say the same as the others listed). I just don't understand why this is an excuse.

Does anyone have a reason to townread them besides them doing what town perceieveably wants? I'm not saying it should be a scramble, sometimes town really syncs up and makes a right decision, but I know for a fact I'm not the right decision so I can't but feel I'm getting played, as are all of you. Why does scum want to do something that will backfire on them? Powerwolfing (marshy knows what this means) exists only in circumstance, and I think most scum do things for two reasons: 1) To be townread 2) To sell their opinions as truthful. I understand that might be simplistic, but given I'm the highest wagon, I don't imagine many are comfortable with going against the consensus. If there is a lynch to happen on me, do you know how easy it would be to just like...wipe your hands of it? Is that at the behest of my own play? Perhaps, but I don't know why people think this is the right call and why many of you think I'm scum.

I've made some shortsighted posts, and I've probably done some stupid ****. But you know what? At least I'm not afraid to. My apologies to the people regardless of the game who are upset with me. I promise I'm not a douchebag I just sometimes have a hard time explaining myself when under pressure. I get that it's easy to attribute that to scumplay in a textbook definition, but I just have a tendency to not compromise and just yknow, let out how I'm feeling on the spot. I think it makes it less contrived, but it's certainly not the best way. I'll be getting into my reads on the next post.
 

#HBC | ѕoup

The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.
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Addendum:

I don't believe in a black and white scenario where this is how X is so Y will happen. I guess the way I could state my feelings is more of a right now instead of like, a final conclusion. There's probably a ton of gray in there, and that gray is something I feel is better to be discussed. I feel like if the game becomes Black and White (in this hypothetical), scum are given obvious choices. What I mean by this is that it becomes really easy for scum to find what to avoid and how to do it. Scum want a fake utopia, they don't want people considering every perspective. It's all about planning ahead and coordinating through what the gamestate is perceived at.
 

#HBC | ѕoup

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Not if it's lead by scum. You're only pushing a directive that is easy to do, I haven't seen you pivot on anything else.
 

#HBC | marshy

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1 Can you please elaborate on the bolded and why Spak as scum would want to ignore lore/soup ?

2 Related, what do you think of Gorf's direction in pushing Spak (since this could be seen as avoiding lore/soup) ?



3 I haven't played with an Oracle role before so I wasn't sure what to make of this at first. But having thought about it my impression is that there is no particularly strong reason for mafia to kill a town soup in a closed setup where he isn't clear. So I wanted to know your thoughts that led to this reaction.

Thanks xxx
1 i look for outliers when hunting scum. townies tend to react to things in similar ways. most of the players were focused on lore or soup to an extent, then spak came in and said he didnt find much of soups posts scummy and talked about some meta with lore that gave him doubt with regard to lore being scum. so it made me wonder if he was scum who knew both were town cuz it was hard seeing a townie handwave those two so easily. its like last game when i made my big post at the start, no one gave a ****, except doop who acted differently (and i guess mavens vote but even his was different from doop). so his upside in doing this as scum is keeping his hands clean of the lore/soup thing while just letting town dogpile them. stuff like that can come from a scum mindset cuz some scum feel the need to make unique pushes that most of the town arent really feeling or paying attention to

2 i think its reasonable. like i said i havent been the biggest fan of spak so i dont mind gorf pushing there and it started a wagon. gorfs been poking at both lore and soup in a way that spak hasnt so i dont see him avoiding lore/soup. like yeah he didnt vote them or call them scum but reading his posts i can tell hes taking them into consideration cuz he has pointed out things he takes issues with that could lead to discussion

3 scum hunt prs. when soup claimed my thought just went to 'well if hes town hes outed, scum prolly kill him' cuz that role is strong. i agree theres leeway for scum to fakeclaim now that weve had time to think things thru but that was my reaction in the moment. i just had the thought i listed out on my mind as opposed to 'well okay, were in a semi open, and theres multiple power roles, so maybe scum can do x y z, blah blah blah'

youre welcome xoxo
 

Fandangox

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Alright then riddle me this soup, you keep mentioning not everyone in your wagon may be town, so who is it? who isn't?

Your #623 is just you mostly playing around with that idea, without still giving any real insight yourself. Your post is all about you and how others are getting a pass, and I can understand that perspective since you currently have the most votes, but as Kary put it best, your play has been reactionary.

Answer me this.
Who voting you right now (or had voted you at some point the game) is the most likely to be scum in your opinion and why?
Who do you think is the most likely to be town?
 

#HBC | ѕoup

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If that all seems like white noise to you by what I typed on game state, I think context is important. Maybe some of you believe in results first and questions later, no problem if you have a difference in play style.

I understand that people would rather people lay out content, reads what have you, and then anything else is not nearly as important. Action speaks louder than words etc

Though I think that actions are like, easier to disguise. It's super easy to sell a vote, it's much harder to explain why. I get the feeling you all believe I'm posturing when I just like explaining myself lol

Fandangox Fandangox I swear to god I'm not stalling I mean I've given a baseline interpretation of the game littered throughout LOL

But apparently a long-form wall is the only way to go
 

Fandangox

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Oh look I changed this
If that all seems like white noise to you by what I typed on game state, I think context is important. Maybe some of you believe in results first and questions later, no problem if you have a difference in play style.

I understand that people would rather people lay out content, reads what have you, and then anything else is not nearly as important. Action speaks louder than words etc

Though I think that actions are like, easier to disguise. It's super easy to sell a vote, it's much harder to explain why. I get the feeling you all believe I'm posturing when I just like explaining myself lol

Fandangox Fandangox I swear to god I'm not stalling I mean I've given a baseline interpretation of the game littered throughout LOL

But apparently a long-form wall is the only way to go
god please not another wall



Soup, just tell me who is your biggest scumread and why? Whose play seems the scummiest to you?

If you are gonna do another wall at least then bring up specific posts from that slot then.
 

Tom

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Okay, fair. I'm not going to try and rinse you over a word choice.

But, in #245 you have me in your 'should stay' pile. Why now do you think I should be checked?
I expect you to fall in the valley between "dies at night" and "lynched in the day"
 

ranmaru

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Pythag said he would not be here until Sunday but that he would be mobile.
 

ranmaru

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He is limited access due to traveling, said in the post he voted Spak and yeah.
 
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