Who's moving up?

[Merkuri]

I personally feel like Link is better than YL. YL isn't that great when his opponent isn't very slow.

 

[rhan]

Link and YL excel in 2 different ways.
Link can handle faster opponents but Yl handles floaty characters better. They belong right were they are on the current tier list.

Shroomed's placing surprised me the most. Why isn't any one talking about that? Seriously.

 

[Strong Badam]

doc es #1
huehuehuehue

 

[Zoler]

Let me rephrase it then. It's an even matchup, but only if you play it the way Hbox does (the correct way). If you play it like any other puff matchup, YL will destroy you. I also can't imagine any other puff player being good enough and having the patience to play like that (this is not a challenge, please don't prove me wrong puff players).

 

[Battlecow]

Other players who could train up a ylink good enough to take Hbox can already take hbox with their mains (i.e. PP/mango). Armada just needed a young 'un because his peach had special hbox prollems.

 

[GhllieShdeKnife]

inb4lock
10locks

 

[Zoler]

Other players who could train up a ylink good enough to take Hbox can already take hbox with their mains (i.e. PP/mango). Armada just needed a young 'un because his peach had special hbox prollems.

His peach? It's not like it's peach worst matchup or anything

 

[Warhawk]

I'm sick of seeing Hbox beat everyone, in part because they hardly know what they are doing against a top Jigs.

Because you know, it can't be that Hungrybox beats most people because he's simply better than them. Armada gets away with the counterpick because he's better than Hungrybox, Young Link does not even beat Puff. Also not knowing the Puff matchup is no excuse for top players; if they're a top player they know how to fight at least the higher tiers. Also Hungrybox has been around long enough that people should have some preparation to fight his Puff, yet Hungrybox remains a top threat. Its not that they can't beat Puff, its that they can't beat Hungrybox.

 

[Divinokage]

I played Hbox a bunch of times already straight up, it's definitely because his skill level is much better than everyone else.

 

[Merkuri]

Because you know, it can't be that Hungrybox beats most people because he's simply better than them. Armada gets away with the counterpick because he's better than Hungrybox, Young Link does not even beat Puff. Also not knowing the Puff matchup is no excuse for top players; if they're a top player they know how to fight at least the higher tiers. Also Hungrybox has been around long enough that people should have some preparation to fight his Puff, yet Hungrybox remains a top threat. Its not that they can't beat Puff, its that they can't beat Hungrybox.

I said in part, I'm well aware that Hbox is more skilled that 99% of the community, but the fact that he mains such an underused character is a big advantage on his part.

 

[Divinokage]

Underused my ***, if people don't know the matchup by now then i dont ****ing know what's wrong with them. It's just that Jiggs punishment game is extremely strong and she can take the advantage with one move which is why it makes her top tier. Even if you know the matchup well, there's chances for you to get your *** kicked.

 

[Merkuri]

Well it's kinda hard to learn the matchup when pretty much none of the pros in your area main the character.

 

[Divinokage]

You don't need a top pro to learn a match-up.. just make someone use Jiggs a lot, eventually you'll know how to deal with every situation. The difference with a top pro is they simply use a character's tools a lot better. They never do anything useless, their reactions are insane, their positioning is really good too, they are much faster in general too. I mean if you are on par with all the skills needed in tournament with them then there's a chance for you to beat them.

 

[Strong Badam]

meta knight
meta knight

 

[Varist]

Well it's kinda hard to learn the matchup when pretty much none of the pros in your area main the character.

armada did it.

move to florida

 

[Warhawk]

I said in part, I'm well aware that Hbox is more skilled that 99% of the community, but the fact that he mains such an underused character is a big advantage on his part.

If we're discussing it as an advantage among top pros it really isn't. Most top pros (unless you're Javi) have played against Hungrybox or other good Puffs and also know the matchup simply because Puff is a top tier character and therefore recognize it as an important matchup to be good at in order to be competitive.

 

[Krynxe]

If we're discussing it as an advantage among top pros it really isn't. Most top pros (unless you're Javi) have played against Hungrybox or other good Puffs and also know the matchup simply because Puff is a top tier character and therefore recognize it as an important matchup to be good at in order to be competitive.

Yeah, I agree. Though it's not quite the same for mid level players, when it comes to top players (as you clarified) they do know the puff MU because they know how much of a threat it is to come across a puff without knowing how to deal with them. Javi is a player who became great through years of practice and experience, so his lack of puff knowledge comes from him lack of experience having to deal with them.

Pretty much, if you never get puff'd you'll never have to learn it. Javi will be back next national and put up a fight vs. hbox.

 

[hungrybox]

Ness

he beat me to it

 

[KirbyKaze]

I think Luigi is slept on. There are more good Luigis then there are any other mid tier character. His offensive game is ridiculous, he doesn't need grabs to get **** going (unlike a number of other mid tiers), has solid finishers, good combo game, really great movement on the ground (although he gets exposed in certain matchups as a result) and he's JANK. Jank is very underrated in this game, and Luigi is just brimming with it.

I think "ridiculous" is an exaggeration but yeah it's pretty good. This post is good.

In related news, Ganondorf is terrible. I'm awful against Samus. And Pikachu is bad against non-FFers (except Marth).

 

[Merkuri]

If we're discussing it as an advantage among top pros it really isn't. Most top pros (unless you're Javi) have played against Hungrybox or other good Puffs and also know the matchup simply because Puff is a top tier character and therefore recognize it as an important matchup to be good at in order to be competitive.

I think that would be true in theory, but not so much in practice.

I think "ridiculous" is an exaggeration but yeah it's pretty good. This post is good.

In related news, Ganondorf is terrible. I'm awful against Samus. And Pikachu is bad against non-FFers (except Marth).

Well Axe was looking really good against your Shiek

 

[KirbyKaze]

I suck at this game though so I don't count.

 

[Blistering Speed]

And Pikachu is bad against non-FFers (except Marth).

Not that I'm au fait with Chu, but I think this is just Sheik. Peach and Puff aren't exactly bad matchups. Jiggs isn't great, but it's not awful.

 

[Warhawk]

Not that I'm au fait with Chu, but I think this is just Sheik. Peach and Puff aren't exactly bad matchups. Jiggs isn't great, but it's not awful.

Am I the only one that thinks Pikachu does as well against Puff as with spacies? Its still not great for him but he can kill Puff at really good percents and can do some damage if he manages to get under her. He has trouble setting up his kills in that match but its not like Puff is really easy to set up for anyone not named Fox.

 

[TheCrimsonBlur]

Not that I'm au fait with Chu, but I think this is just Sheik. Peach and Puff aren't exactly bad matchups. Jiggs isn't great, but it's not awful.

After Sheik, Peach and ICs are def Pikachu's next 2 worst matchups...

 

[Jeapie]

Although I really like Roy and I want someone to be good with him,
I dont see any potential with that charackter at all ;(

I cant see anyone doing (semi) good at a tournament with him.
or pichu. That pokemon sucks too.

Prove me wrong!

 

[Varist]

Although I really like Roy and I want someone to be good with him,
I dont see any potential with that charackter at all ;(

I cant see anyone doing (semi) good at a tournament with him.
or pichu. That pokemon sucks too.

Prove me wrong!

I got ***** by V3ctorman's Roy like a million times, the character's definitely got the combos and the setups, and can kill a lot earlier than Marth, but his recovery/defense as a character is pretty bad. He's pretty momentum-based. If he were to move up at all he would just swap with Zelda, and stay in the same tier he's in.

I know Zelda's got more players repping her, but I think Roy is a better character than her. The only experience I have with Zelda is YouTube and theorycraft though.

--

PIKACHU IS SOOO GOOD. i'm not prepared to say he's better than Samus, but he DEFINITELY isn't that far behind her. Pikachu doesn't deserve D tier. Come on. He's got so many tools. He plays like a damn spacie.

The argument that "well Axe is the only one good with Pikachu" might just be there because Axe is the only one with the tech/who bothered to build up character knowledge with Pikachu.

The people who make the tier list have to understand that there's not that much interest in maining low-tier characters.

The # of people maining a character should certainly determine their spot in the tier list if they're placing well, but the lack of people maining a character should not hold it back from moving over other unpopular characters if it truly is a better character.

 

[Divinokage]

Idk Zelda has been proven to do better in tournament than Roy ever did, he sucks. lol.

 

[Zoler]

ok random list i made in 5 sec, characters below mid tier:

maybe mid tier?
Luigi
Yoshi - yoshi over luigi in pal maby D: damn ntsc

definitely low tier below here
DK - cool combos and decent bair
Young Link - better than link without a doubt, no explanation
Link - pretty good, but too slow etc
Zelda - best of the ****ty characters
mewtwo - somehow..
kirby - kirby is so underrated
pichu - good recovery, awesome upsmash
ness - doesn't necessarily have to up-b to recover, has some combos and spacing, lacks a good finisher/kill move
roy - every move he has except fsmash and dtilt sucks, ****ty recovery
bowser - really?

 

[1337h4xx0r]

Although I really like Roy and I want someone to be good with him,
I dont see any potential with that charackter at all ;(

I cant see anyone doing (semi) good at a tournament with him.
or pichu. That pokemon sucks too.

Prove me wrong!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5J-kD_MMBM

It's not tournament, but after seeing this, I think Roy could have the potential to rise up a bit if a top level player were to pick up Roy.

 

[Zoler]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5J-kD_MMBM

It's not tournament, but after seeing this, I think Roy could have the potential to rise up a bit if a top level player were to pick up Roy.

Kels played beyond horrible. He DI'd everything terribad, didn't do a single good approach, missed to jump out of shine against m2k's shield. SDd 3 times?

Roy is so good.

 

[Veetaak]

+1 on Zoler

m2k basically got a grab, a dtilt, an fsmash and then an edgeguard. It should not happen. + kels Sd'd

No need to cheer for Roy... he sucks

 

[Varist]

thanks a lot you ****ing limecat, thanks to your fruity little video no one takes roy seriously anymore

 

[Beat!]

Vman vs Axe would've been a better choice.



Roy sucks anyway, though.

 

[Varist]

Well at least Ness deserves F tier.

No one can seriously tell me that Ness is of the same calibur as Bowser.

 

[Beat!]

I can.

Ness doesn't deserve ****.

 

[Varist]

Ness is ****ing fun, gtfo.

let's have a tier list of fun

which characters are the funnest to play. poll the whole community and average that **** out and put together a friendship is magic list of lists

fair is so fun to spam with Ness, and yoyo glitch is such flavorful jank.

 

[Warhawk]

Well at least Ness deserves F tier.

No one can seriously tell me that Ness is of the same calibur as Bowser.

uhh yea I think Ness is worse than Bowser. Ness' recovery is awful. Bowser's recovery isn't good but its not near as bad as Ness'.

 

[Beat!]

Ness is ****ing fun, gtfo.

let's have a tier list of fun

which characters are the funnest to play. poll the whole community and average that **** out and put together a friendship is magic list of lists

fair is so fun to spam with Ness, and yoyo glitch is such flavorful jank.

Yeah, fun stuff!

Throwing Ness off stage is super fun. He has a long DJ and his up-B, and yet he'll never make it back!

I also love playing Marth against Ness because Ness can't win!

Oh, and jumping out and getting hit by PKT as the poor kid's trying to recover!


I'm done.

 

[Varist]

warhawk doesn't understand that if you play well enough,​

YOU NEVER NEED TO RECOVER​

 

[-ShadowPhoenix-]

-dead-