Who's Canonically the Strongest Character in Smash?

[Ephemiel]

Wouldn't Palutena be the strongest? Being a Goddess and having the ability to summon Black Holes and giant lasers at will.

 

[Brickbuild101]

Wouldn't Palutena be the strongest? Being a Goddess and having the ability to summon Black Holes and giant lasers at will.

In canon, she never actually did that.

 

[TheDarkKnightNoivern]

In canon, she never actually did that.

But wasn't she the one that provided the powers for pit?

 

[Etc_Guy]

Most of his feats are the result of power-ups. His basic abilities are achievable by a real human athlete.

has done feats that any type of god is too wimpy to pull off. One of the best example is eating garlic cloves WHOLE!

 

[Ephemiel]

In canon, she never actually did that.

True, but she's still a Goddess. Another character would be Shulk, since he's mentioned to be pretty much a God and can "decide the fate of all of the universe"

 

[Etc_Guy]

has done feats that any type of god is too wimpy to pull off. One of the best example is eating garlic cloves WHOLE!

True, but she's still a Goddess. Another character would be Shulk, since he's mentioned to be pretty much a God and can "decide the fate of all of the universe"

Seems legit.

 

[GunGunW]

Isn't Palutena a Greco/Roman style goddess?

 

[ChikoLad]

Sonic 2006 was retconned

This is half debatable because of Crisis City being in Sonic Generations.

Except this.

We actually don't have a confirmed weight for King Bob-Omb. So it doesn't mean anything.

I said "human athlete", not a normal human. Athletes push themselves beyond the comprehension of a normal human. Of course you or me would not be able to do that. But an athlete might. The highest weight ever lifted by a human being is 2,840kg.

True, but she's still a Goddess. Another character would be Shulk, since he's mentioned to be pretty much a God and can "decide the fate of all of the universe"

"Goddess" and "God" are merely titles. Palutena is powerful enough, but she was weaker than the other gods in KI:U, was held captive in a cell before, and was brainwashed by a mortal. She wouldn't stand up to Rosalina or Shulk, since they can do a whole lot more than any of the KI:U gods. One of Rosalina's own powers is mind control, so Palutena is screwed on that alone, assuming she isn't allowed assistance from Pit (whom still probably could not take on Rosalina when she's using canon power).

 

[GunGunW]

This is half debatable because of Crisis City being in Sonic Generations.



We actually don't have a confirmed weight for King Bob-Omb. So it doesn't mean anything.

I said "human athlete", not a normal human. Athletes push themselves beyond the comprehension of a normal human. Of course you or me would not be able to do that. But an athlete might. The highest weight ever lifted by a human being is 2,840kg.



"Goddess" and "God" are merely titles. Palutena is powerful enough, but she was weaker than the other gods in KI:U, was held captive in a cell before, and was brainwashed by a mortal. She wouldn't stand up to Rosalina or Shulk, since they can do a whole lot more than any of the KI:U gods. One of Rosalina's own powers is mind control, so Palutena is screwed on that alone, assuming she isn't allowed assistance from Pit (whom still probably could not take on Rosalina when she's using canon power).

Mario is a short non muscular human. That thing is several times his size and is made of metal. It's obvious it weighs more than anything a human his size could lift. At the very least he's Captain America level, which is above human level.

 

[ChikoLad]

Mario is a short non muscular human. That thing is several times his size and is made of metal. It's obvious it weighs more than anything a human his size could lift. At the very least he's Captain America level, which is above human level.

Different metals have different weights, and that thing would not be that large compared to a strong athlete. Heck, Rosalina is probably nearly as tall as it. And Bowser is (someone Mario can also lift).

Mario is incredibly strong for a human of his stature, indeed. To the point where it is unrealistic altogether. But it is not unrealistic to propose that the strongest athletes in the world can do that too, with whatever builds they have. That's basically what I'm getting at.

 

[Ravio_Yo]

Mrio can shatter bricks with a single punch. Mario can jump off of things hundreds of feet in the air and get up without a scratch. Mario cn stomp gods to death, as witnessed in the RPGs.

 

[Etc_Guy]

Mrio can shatter bricks with a single punch. Mario can jump off of things hundreds of feet in the air and get up without a scratch. Mario cn stomp gods to death, as witnessed in the RPGs.

and can also spin jump on Chainsaws, Boos, Hotheads and Blargs without taking damage and no assistance was needed.
(That includes power-ups and god powers)

EDIT: could do the same but without the spinning.

 

[Crystanium]

Mario's ability to break bricks may depend more on technique, rather than strength. Simply put, Mario is just hitting the right spot to make the bricks break.

Taking no damage from great heights could just be dependent on the fact that the games where this takes place are platformers. These types of games typically allow anyone to fall from great heights without injuries. In other games, Mario takes damage from falling too high.

From what I've observed, Mario is vulnerable to extreme temperatures, such as fire, lava, and ice. He's vulnerable to spikes, impact force (he would have died, had the Star Spirits not lent their power to him in Paper Mario. They said he suffered grave injuries or something like that.) He's pretty much vulnerable like any human being. He can ground pound without taking damage from high spots. However, I don't know if that works every now and then in Super Mario 64 and Sunshine. It's been a while.

Paper Mario allows Mario to use badges to boost his abilities, both offensive and defensive, though. I still don't get how a fish bowl prevents him from drowning or dying in space.

 

[GunGunW]

I think Mario most likely does break tr brick with strength. If we're going by New Super Mario Bros. and 3D Land and World, Mario in his standard form is him with the power of the super mushroom, which would explain his above average abilities.

 

[Munomario777]

Mario's ability to break bricks may depend more on technique, rather than strength. Simply put, Mario is just hitting the right spot to make the bricks break.

Taking no damage from great heights could just be dependent on the fact that the games where this takes place are platformers. These types of games typically allow anyone to fall from great heights without injuries. In other games, Mario takes damage from falling too high.

From what I've observed, Mario is vulnerable to extreme temperatures, such as fire, lava, and ice. He's vulnerable to spikes, impact force (he would have died, had the Star Spirits not lent their power to him in Paper Mario. They said he suffered grave injuries or something like that.) He's pretty much vulnerable like any human being. He can ground pound without taking damage from high spots. However, I don't know if that works every now and then in Super Mario 64 and Sunshine. It's been a while.

Paper Mario allows Mario to use badges to boost his abilities, both offensive and defensive, though. I still don't get how a fish bowl prevents him from drowning or dying in space.

Well, in the Mario games where you can break bricks, you can hit any part of the brick as long as Mario is jumping upwards into the bottom of it, so it doesn't seem to be a specific "weak point." Plus, I don't know anyone IRL who can break a block of solid brick with just their fist and a weak point

Yeah, health systems are inconsistent, but I think we could take it from Mario's most recent game/his most recent game before Smash 4 where he can fall from a height. If you think about it, he hasn't really taken fall damage in a while, at least in the core series (Galaxy didn't have it, nor did NSMB or 3D Land/World), so it's likely that Mario, as he is in Smash for Wii U/3DS (Galaxy, one of the games with no fall damage, is in a stage, as is NSMB), doesn't take fall damage.

Yes, Mario is vulnerable to extreme temperatures. However, I think the spin jump might have some sort of effect where he can defeat enemies of this nature, but not be invulnerable to hazards (maybe some sort of damaging area around him?). And yes, the ground pound does work consistently at least in 64/64 DS (haven't played Sunshine myself).

As for the drowning/space breathing, again, I think we can take this from his most recent games. In NSMB and 3D Land/World, Mario and crew can breathe underwater, but it's hard to say since, like fall damage, this fluctuates from game to game. And as for breathing in space, I think Paper Mario and Mario from the core platformers are sort of two different entities from two different universes (IIRC, at least one of the Paper Mario games takes place in a book), so they're really not concrete evidence on their own. Plus, in Galaxy and the bonus worlds of 3D World, Mario has been shown to be able to breathe in space with no spacesuit/helmet.

I think Mario most likely does break tr brick with strength. If we're going by New Super Mario Bros. and 3D Land and World, Mario in his standard form is him with the power of the super mushroom, which would explain his above average abilities.

Yeah, and also, his appearance in the three-dimensional titles such as Sunshine, Galaxy, etc. closely resembles the "big" Mario from NSMB/3D Land/World, which also happens to be his appearance in Smash Brothers.

 

[IvanQuote]

Well, in the Mario games where you can break bricks, you can hit any part of the brick as long as Mario is jumping upwards into the bottom of it, so it doesn't seem to be a specific "weak point." Plus, I don't know anyone IRL who can break a block of solid brick with just their fist and a weak point

Yeah, health systems are inconsistent, but I think we could take it from Mario's most recent game/his most recent game before Smash 4 where he can fall from a height. If you think about it, he hasn't really taken fall damage in a while, at least in the core series (Galaxy didn't have it, nor did NSMB or 3D Land/World), so it's likely that Mario, as he is in Smash for Wii U/3DS (Galaxy, one of the games with no fall damage, is in a stage, as is NSMB), doesn't take fall damage.

Yes, Mario is vulnerable to extreme temperatures. However, I think the spin jump might have some sort of effect where he can defeat enemies of this nature, but not be invulnerable to hazards (maybe some sort of damaging area around him?). And yes, the ground pound does work consistently at least in 64/64 DS (haven't played Sunshine myself).

As for the drowning/space breathing, again, I think we can take this from his most recent games. In NSMB and 3D Land/World, Mario and crew can breathe underwater, but it's hard to say since, like fall damage, this fluctuates from game to game. And as for breathing in space, I think Paper Mario and Mario from the core platformers are sort of two different entities from two different universes (IIRC, at least one of the Paper Mario games takes place in a book), so they're really not concrete evidence on their own. Plus, in Galaxy and the bonus worlds of 3D World, Mario has been shown to be able to breathe in space with no spacesuit/helmet.
Yeah, and also, his appearance in the three-dimensional titles such as Sunshine, Galaxy, etc. closely resembles the "big" Mario from NSMB/3D Land/World, which also happens to be his appearance in Smash Brothers.

Regarding fall damage, they happened a lot in the earlier games, but not at all since NSMB. If the games are in order of release date (for the most part) we can assume that his legs have gotten stronger to the point of falls not hurting him. In 64, if you start a ground pound from a large height, I believe you still get hurt (you don't get hurt if you start it near the end of a fall). In Sunshine, doing the same will net you a Super Ground Pound, which is much stronger and breaks certain black objects and makes the screen tremor for a second. Whether this counts as an earthquake or not is debatable, but in game it is purely visual.

For the selective drowning, my guess is that some water is oxygenated magically. This may sound like BS, but this happened in the water level of Banjo Tooie, which is connected to the Mario verse thru Diddy Kong Racing, so it is plausible, if not a cop out.

As for space, probably a cartoon logic-induced placebo effect. Rosie told him the Luma would protect him, therefore he feels he can breath in space in Galaxy. Same with the fishbowl.

 

[Khao]

One of Rosalina's own powers is mind control

wat

Since when?

I know you like the character, but now you're just making up powers.

 

[ChikoLad]

wat

Since when?

I know you like the character, but now you're just making up powers.

Die too much in Galaxy 2 in pretty much any level, and a being known as the Cosmic Spirit comes up. The Cosmic Spirit is a clone of Rosalina made out of cosmic matter, made by Rosalina herself (denoted by the real wand and adornments, that do not have a cosmic texture). This clone's purpose in the game is to auto-pilot players to the Power Star in the level, but doing so switches the Power Star to a Bronze Star.

However, the in-universe explanation is that the Cosmic Spirit is taking over Mario's mind to guide him to the Star, clearly denoted by the animation beforehand.

Don't accuse me of making stuff up when you simply haven't double-checked something that you initially don't have knowledge of or have forgotten.

And because so many newcomers to this thread keep quoting my posts a while after I have made them, I am going to dig up a post of mine from earlier in the thread that explained a number of (but not all of) Rosalina's powers, using facts provided by the games themselves. Because apparently I am the only person who keeps their brain switched on when playing Mario games.

-----------------

Now to provide images and what not of all of those abilities of Rosalina I pointed out before, where I can, and a more detailed explanation where I can get no image:

Platforming Prowess & Spin Attack

Protective Shield

She also does it in the Galaxy games when you attempt to jump, spin, or shoot Star Bits at her.

Teleportation

Also, see her roll animation in Smash.

Control over gravity
I don't know where I can find a video of an LPer doing it in Galaxy so I can't provide an image in this, but most people know how when you jump off the Observatory in Galaxy, Rosalina pulls you back to safety. Also, her control over gravity is implemented into her Smash moveset in a few different ways, such as her down special, "Gravitational Pull".

Self levitation and flight
We all know how she generally levitates for her "standing" animation in pretty much every game she's in. No need to explain that part.

For flight though:

Can create doppelgangers of herself (Cosmic Spirit)
I want to go into some detail on this point:

Spoiler

Some people like to claim that the "Cosmic Spirit" is not actually Rosalina, and instead is Rosalina's equivalent to "Cosmic Mario/Luigi". These guys are the result of Prankster Comets causing havok.

However, three key things disprove that theory, and prove it's actually Rosalina:

1) The Cosmic Spirit doesn't show up when Prankster Comets are present, it appears independently of them. It specifically shows up when Mario is struggling in his mission, and offers assistance. Cosmic Mario, on the other hand, only shows up when a Prankster Comet is present, and is mischievous and wants to get in Mario's way.

2) Compare the appearance of Cosmic Mario with the Cosmic Spirit:

Cosmic Mario is completely featureless, and it's even difficult to differentiate it's clothing.

The Cosmic Spirit is more clearly shaped like Rosalina. And notice how it has Rosalina's genuine crown, earrings, broach, and wand. Not only that, but it, again, only seeks to help Mario, like a friend.

3) Cosmic Mario speaks gibberish, and has an extremely high pitched, distorted voice. He sounds absolutely nothing like Mario. However, the Cosmic Spirit can speak proper English:

Not only that, but it's voice clips are identical to Rosalina's voice. Has the same echo Rosalina's voice has and all (something Cosmic Mario does not have).

--------------------

The only conclusion that can be drawn is that Cosmic Mario is an abomination - an unnatural, inaccurate clone of Mario. He has a completely off personality, voice, and rough appearance.
The Cosmic Spirit, on the other hand, is a deliberate clone, and even features Rosalina's genuine accessories. And since we know she possesses control over cosmic elements, it's not far fetched to believe it was her who made it. Who else would have made such an accurate clone, featuring her seemingly real accessories?

Mind control
Since we've already disclosed that the Cosmic Spirit is indeed a clone of Rosalina created by herself, that means the Cosmic Spirit's manner of helping Mario - taking control of his mind to help him where he fails - is an ability Rosalina has command over.

Can change size at will

Control over the universe's rebirth
The visual implications of Mario Galaxy's endings are pretty clear cut, so I'm not going to explain that.

Instead, I will make the assumption that Rosalina is not in control of the rebirth of the universe. Now, let's talk about the gaping plot holes that come from such a viewpoint:

-Rosalina herself states that whenever the universe is reborn, "the cycle repeats itself, but never in quite the same way.". If this is the case, why is it that Rosalina herself, and everything she cherishes, remains unchanged? Why does specifically everything related to her remain the same after the universe's rebirth (this includes Mario and his friends)? If you believe this is a completely natural, indiscriminate process that Rosalina has absolutely no control over, how do you explain Rosalina and her most dearest friends and locations remain completely unchanged?

-Rosalina's knowledge of this cycle in the first place proves that this isn't the first time she's been through it, and that she hasn't lost her memory from universe rebirth to rebirth.

-Whether you want to believe Rosalina is a goddess or not, she describes herself as "watcher and protector of the cosmos". That's a pretty important role. It seems a bit uncharacteristic for someone of such a position, to be left to the whim of a natural, indiscriminate process, therefore, potentially losing this role and having it passed on to someone less suitable (or nobody at all). Which could potentially leave the next incarnation of the universe in an unruly state.

-She willingly lets this process happen. As if she has confidence things will be fine in the next universe, that things won't be out of hand, and that she will still be there to watch over the cosmos. If she had no control over the process, she would not display such confidence, especially since Lumas are essentially dying as all of this is happening, and potentially Mario's friends too. We outright watch as everything turns to nothing, while a small, contained area with Rosalina and Mario exists, and later, Mario finds himself waking up from an unconscious state, along with everyone else - except Rosalina, who is conscious throughout this entire process. Another hint she drops is when she says, "Yes....all life carries the essence of stars...even all of you...". All life carries the essence of stars. Rosalina has control over cosmic elements and a whole lot more. Stars are a cosmic element. Anything that contains it's essence is something Rosalina can control the creation of.

 

[Stilll Alive]

Im not exactly sure we have seen rosalina's potential at all so who knows, but yeah mewtwo triumph over every pokemon, thats fast pokemon, strong pokemon, smart pokemon. So i dont think any of these hold a candle too him

 

[Khao]

Die too much in Galaxy 2 in pretty much any level, and a being known as the Cosmic Spirit comes up. The Cosmic Spirit is a clone of Rosalina made out of cosmic matter, made by Rosalina herself (denoted by the real wand and adornments, that do not have a cosmic texture). This clone's purpose in the game is to auto-pilot players to the Power Star in the level, but doing so switches the Power Star to a Bronze Star.

However, the in-universe explanation is that the Cosmic Spirit is taking over Mario's mind to guide him to the Star, clearly denoted by the animation beforehand.

Don't accuse me of making stuff up when you simply haven't double-checked something that you initially don't have knowledge of or have forgotten.

Huh. Yeah, I'm aware of that thing, but inferring that she can forcefully take over the minds of others from that is kind of a huge stretch. The player can stop it at any time for one, and they're the ones who choose to activate it in the first place.

And that's not to mention that it's kind of just a gameplay mechanic (when it involves dying a lot you can probably count it out ), I wouldn't look past it as being more than just a fun way to present a tutorial. I actually googled "Rosalina mind control" to see if I was missing anything and found absolutely nothing, so I really doubt mind control was ever meant to be an actual canonical ability.

Also, maybe this is just me, but when it comes to both the cosmic "clone" and the size change, I never saw those as clones or size changes, just as different "projections" of her own image. I don't know where you got the idea that those things are clones in the first place, I'm pretty sure that's literally Rosalina talking right there.

 

[ChikoLad]

Huh. Yeah, I'm aware of that thing, but inferring that she can forcefully take over the minds of others from that is kind of a huge stretch. The player can stop it at any time for one, and they're the ones who choose to activate it in the first place.

And that's not to mention that it's kind of just a gameplay mechanic (when it involves dying a lot you can probably count it out ), I wouldn't look past it as being more than just a fun way to present a tutorial. I actually googled "Rosalina mind control" to see if I was missing anything and found absolutely nothing, so I really doubt mind control was ever meant to be an actual canonical ability.

Also, maybe this is just me, but when it comes to both the cosmic "clone" and the size change, I never saw those as clones or size changes, just as different "projections" of her own image. I don't know where you got the idea that those things are clones in the first place, I'm pretty sure that's literally Rosalina talking right there.

How is it a stretch? It's literally what she is doing. Mario is her friend, so of course she asks if he wants the help. But it's not a stretch to say she could stay there. She has mind control. That's literally what it's for. Just because she's using it to help a friend in this case, doesn't mean she can't use it to screw with an enemy.

Plus, her grab animation in Smash is basically the same as Mewtwo's, and in both cases, it seems like psychokinesis. Which is a power of the mind.

Just because you didn't find anything on Google, doesn't mean that's not what it is. Rosalina is probably the most misinterpreted Nintendo character ever, so it applies tenfold with her (right down to the fact that people call her a princess).

Like I said, it seems that everyone turns their brain off when playing Mario, and that's why nobody picks up on and documents this stuff about her, even though it's been stated that she is supposed to be this powerful (Miyamoto has said that when it comes to Mario Kart, he wants her to appear more "normal" because it's a kids game, which is why she's slightly shorter and shows little demonstration of her powers. Because we just can't have anything resembling a god-like deity showing that off in a kids game).

 

[Etc_Guy]

Die too much in Galaxy 2 in pretty much any level, and a being known as the Cosmic Spirit comes up. The Cosmic Spirit is a clone of Rosalina made out of cosmic matter, made by Rosalina herself (denoted by the real wand and adornments, that do not have a cosmic texture). This clone's purpose in the game is to auto-pilot players to the Power Star in the level, but doing so switches the Power Star to a Bronze Star.

Who dies in Galaxy Too? Except for the Perfect Run, that's annoyin'.

For the rest. Changing size at will is nothing impressive at this point. has been doing it for along time now, been possessed a few times, and taken a pleura of beatings with no shielding like wusses would. Who needs the universe if never took power and became a doctor. would only have the lumas in her life, Daisy would still be captured by Tatanga (if she didn't escape by now,) the Yoshis wouldn't recognize and , and worst of all........ wouldn't be greedy.

isn't a fist fighter like and is, so she isn't strong by the slightest.

 

[ChikoLad]

Who dies in Galaxy Too? Except for the Perfect Run, that's annoyin'.

For the rest. Changing size at will is nothing impressive at this point. has been doing it for along time now, been possessed a few times, and taken a pleura of beatings with no shielding like wusses would. Who needs the universe if never took power and became a doctor. would only have the lumas in her life, Daisy would still be captured by Tatanga (if she didn't escape by now,) the Yoshis wouldn't recognize and , and worst of all........ wouldn't be greedy.

isn't a fist fighter like and is, so she isn't strong by the slightest.

I'm genuinely trying to make sense of your post and I am genuinely trying to figure out how sincere you are being in this discussion but I honestly can't tell at this point, and so I won't bother with you in the future.

 

[GunGunW]

Who dies in Galaxy Too? Except for the Perfect Run, that's annoyin'.

For the rest. Changing size at will is nothing impressive at this point. has been doing it for along time now, been possessed a few times, and taken a pleura of beatings with no shielding like wusses would. Who needs the universe if never took power and became a doctor. would only have the lumas in her life, Daisy would still be captured by Tatanga (if she didn't escape by now,) the Yoshis wouldn't recognize and , and worst of all........ wouldn't be greedy.

isn't a fist fighter like and is, so she isn't strong by the slightest.

Mario has beaten Wario before.

He stands no chance against Rosalina.

 

[Zink Imp]

True, but she's still a Goddess. Another character would be Shulk, since he's mentioned to be pretty much a God and can "decide the fate of all of the universe"

Shulk was able to triumph over gods and became equivalent/greater than to gods from his universe. I would give the nod to Shulk being able to topple over Palutena.

 

[Munomario777]

Regarding fall damage, they happened a lot in the earlier games, but not at all since NSMB. If the games are in order of release date (for the most part) we can assume that his legs have gotten stronger to the point of falls not hurting him. In 64, if you start a ground pound from a large height, I believe you still get hurt (you don't get hurt if you start it near the end of a fall). In Sunshine, doing the same will net you a Super Ground Pound, which is much stronger and breaks certain black objects and makes the screen tremor for a second. Whether this counts as an earthquake or not is debatable, but in game it is purely visual.

For the selective drowning, my guess is that some water is oxygenated magically. This may sound like BS, but this happened in the water level of Banjo Tooie, which is connected to the Mario verse thru Diddy Kong Racing, so it is plausible, if not a cop out.

As for space, probably a cartoon logic-induced placebo effect. Rosie told him the Luma would protect him, therefore he feels he can breath in space in Galaxy. Same with the fishbowl.

Yeah, I do think that the whole fall damage deal is a result of Mario getting more powerful over the years. I didn't know about that Sunshine bit by the way; that's really interesting. Maybe the Lakitu cameraman is shaking in fear?

It could be that, or maybe he has a special swimming technique that he uses sometimes? IIRC, most, if not all, games where Mario can breathe underwater have him swimming upright, SMB NES style (2D games, 3D Land/World), which has the benefit of somehow breathing underwater, while the games where he can drown (most main three-dimensional titles) usually have him swimming normally, which has the benefit of maneuverability. It could be either one really, who knows.

That is a good point, although Mario is breathing in space before he meets Rosalina, since he did pretty much ride that castle into orbit.

 

[ChikoLad]

I don't really think anything of the whole "Mario can breate in space" thing. I just ignore that, since games tend to let characters breathe in space simply because it's a great setting for levels (or in Galaxy's instance, an entire game).

I mean, Sonic's greatest fear canonically is water, for fear of drowning, yet he breathes in space just fine. Or can breathe in smoke without a problem.

 

[Munomario777]

I don't really think anything of the whole "Mario can breate in space" thing. I just ignore that, since games tend to let characters breathe in space simply because it's a great setting for levels (or in Galaxy's instance, an entire game).

I mean, Sonic's greatest fear canonically is water, for fear of drowning, yet he breathes in space just fine. Or can breathe in smoke without a problem.

Yeah, after all, everyone can do it in the Galaxy stage in Smash Wii U

 

[Khao]

How is it a stretch? It's literally what she is doing. Mario is her friend, so of course she asks if he wants the help. But it's not a stretch to say she could stay there. She has mind control. That's literally what it's for. Just because she's using it to help a friend in this case, doesn't mean she can't use it to screw with an enemy. And, again, I'd generally just think of it as nothing more than a tutorial, something that exists just for the sake of helping the player.

In the same way, just because she can use it to guide a friend towards their goal, doesn't mean they can do absolutely anything that could be imaginably possible with it. Unless we actually see her using this ability on an enemy in a canon game, we can't prove that she's capable of using it in that way. She's guiding a friend, that's all she's "literally" doing in this case. No brainwashing, no complete takeover over somebody's mind against their will, just directing a willing person to their goal, while they're free to stop it at any point.

Plus, her grab animation in Smash is basically the same as Mewtwo's, and in both cases, it seems like psychokinesis. Which is a power of the mind.

Leaving aside the fact that Smash is not canon, and as such, we shouldn't be looking at it when defining a character's abilities, that's a completely different power from mind control.[/quote]

Just because you didn't find anything on Google, doesn't mean that's not what it is. Rosalina is probably the most misinterpreted Nintendo character ever, so it applies tenfold with her (right down to the fact that people call her a princess).

I dunno, the fact that I couldn't find a single reference to Rosalina having a mind control power kinda tells a lot if you ask me. I actually separately searched different conversations about analysing her abilities, and didn't find any mention of any sort of mind control.

Like I said, it seems that everyone turns their brain off when playing Mario, and that's why nobody picks up on and documents this stuff about her, even though it's been stated that she is supposed to be this powerful (Miyamoto has said that when it comes to Mario Kart, he wants her to appear more "normal" because it's a kids game, which is why she's slightly shorter and shows little demonstration of her powers. Because we just can't have anything resembling a god-like deity showing that off in a kids game).

Rosalina is powerful, that much is obvious.

But you're taking out some moments in the game, and adding in your own twist to the events to attribute her powers she never displayed, or hinted at being capable of. You're just greatly exaggerating her power.

For one, it's not like the universe changes because she simply wills for it to happen, she simply commands Lumas to do so, and they're actually the ones that have the power to reset the universe. Can she influence it? Yes, seeing how all Lumas think of her as a mother, they're just gonna do whatever she says, but Lumas need to be there to make it happen, she can't just reset the universe out of complete nowhere for no reason. If you wanna talk about possible plotholes, Mario Galaxy would have never happened in the first place is she simply had the ability to reset the universe at will, as she could simply do so as soon as she got into trouble. Instead, she needs Mario's help to recover the power of the stars.

 

[ChikoLad]

In the same way, just because she can use it to guide a friend towards their goal, doesn't mean they can do absolutely anything that could be imaginably possible with it. Unless we actually see her using this ability on an enemy in a canon game, we can't prove that she's capable of using it in that way. She's guiding a friend, that's all she's "literally" doing in this case. No brainwashing, no complete takeover over somebody's mind against their will, just directing a willing person to their goal, while they're free to stop it at any point.

Leaving aside the fact that Smash is not canon, and as such, we shouldn't be looking at it when defining a character's abilities, that's a completely different power from mind control.

I dunno, the fact that I couldn't find a single reference to Rosalina having a mind control power kinda tells a lot if you ask me. I actually separately searched different conversations about analysing her abilities, and didn't find any mention of any sort of mind control.


Rosalina is powerful, that much is obvious.

But you're taking out some moments in the game, and adding in your own twist to the events to attribute her powers she never displayed, or hinted at being capable of. You're just greatly exaggerating her power.

For one, it's not like the universe changes because she simply wills for it to happen, she simply commands Lumas to do so, and they're actually the ones that have the power to reset the universe. Can she influence it? Yes, seeing how all Lumas think of her as a mother, they're just gonna do whatever she says, but Lumas need to be there to make it happen, she can't just reset the universe out of complete nowhere for no reason. If you wanna talk about possible plotholes, Mario Galaxy would have never happened in the first place is she simply had the ability to reset the universe at will, as she could simply do so as soon as she got into trouble. Instead, she needs Mario's help to recover the power of the stars.

I love when people respond to me with posts that contradict themselves.

She didn't need Mario, it's completely stupid that she was written to ask for his help, because she didn't need it at all. FFS, she can fly and teleport. Mario has to painstakingly manuveur across platforms and planets to get those Power Stars. That alone says that she didn't need him. It would have been a lot easier for her to do it. Unfortunately, "Super Rosalina Galaxy" was not marketable in 2007. So Mario is the main player character instead, and they write Rosalina to ask for Mario's help even though she blatantly did not need it from the moment she appeared in game. So your last point is irrelevant. Welcome to the Mario series - king of gameplay story segregation.

Mind control is exactly what it says on the tin. You are literally controlling somebody's mind. And they lose control until the act is finished. Also note the surprised expression on Mario's face, clearly showing that he does not know what's actually going on. He asked for help, but he didn't sign up for mind control.

Smash is completely relevant here. Rosalina's grab animation is an action. Canon refers to events, not actions. As long as a character's actions in Smash do not contradict canon, and are believable based on canon, then it's simply a natural extension of what they can do.

Mario can throw an opponent down at the ground in Smash. He's never done this in a Mario game, but it's hardly contradictory. He's swung Bowser around by the tail before, after all.
Similarly, Rosalina has never used psychokinesis outside of Smash. However she demonstrates mind control. Mind control and psychokinesis are both powers involving manipulating your surroundings with your mind. So her doing the latter is not unbelievable due to the former.

Also, for the last time, the Lumas were not needed for the universal reboot. Rosalina never says this. And in general, I'm sick of having to constantly repeat myself here. This is the seventh time I've had to go through these points in this thread. It isn't because anything I'm saying is a problem though, it's because different people are bringing up the same arguments because they can't be bothered to read the thread past the most recent page.

 

[Khao]

I love when people respond to me with posts that contradict themselves.

Classy.

She didn't need Mario, it's completely stupid that she was written to ask for his help, because she didn't need it at all. FFS, she can fly and teleport. Mario has to painstakingly manuveur across platforms and planets to get those Power Stars. That alone says that she didn't need him. It would have been a lot easier for her to do it. Unfortunately, "Super Rosalina Galaxy" was not marketable in 2007. So Mario is the main player character instead, and they write Rosalina to ask for Mario's help even though she blatantly did not need it from the moment she appeared in game. So your last point is irrelevant. Welcome to the Mario series - king of gameplay story segregation.

I'm sorry, but she needed Mario's help, that's a basic fact of the game regardless of what abilities you think Rosalina might have, is it stupid that she needed help? Maybe, but the fact is, she did. You don't get to dismiss plotholes that contradict your own arguments, and yet use other possible plotholes as counterarguments.

Also, just in your post just before this one, you're stating that Mario breathing in space is just a gamplay element that shouldn't be given much thought, yet you're arguing that we can't do that with Rosalina... because?

Mind control is exactly what it says on the tin. You are literally controlling somebody's mind. And they lose control until the act is finished. Also note the surprised expression on Mario's face, clearly showing that he does not know what's actually going on. He asked for help, but he didn't sign up for mind control.

Abilities have limits, being able to do something doesn't mean you can do the same feat on a higher level. Again, we don't know if Rosalina is capable of conrolling the mind of a person against their will because she has never been shown to do so.
If a character is shown lifting and throwing a chair, can we use it as proof that they're able to lift and throw a car because it's the same kind of skill?

Smash is completely relevant here. Rosalina's grab animation is an action. Canon refers to events, not actions. As long as a character's actions in Smash do not contradict canon, and are believable based on canon, then it's simply a natural extension of what they can do.

It really isn't relevant. The game isn't canon, period. If Rosalina has never been shown to do something in a canon game, then she can't do it.

This applies to any character, in the Star Fox series, Fox can fly surrounded in fire, or use a reflector. Samus doesn't have a built-in flamethrower in Metroid. Kirby's copy abilities are far less specific in his own games. Captain Falcon doesn't have the ability to generate falcon-shaped flames by punching in F-Zero. They may have those abilities in Smash, but that doesn't mean that they're canonically capable of doing so in their own universe because Smash is not canon to any of those game series.

Mario can throw an opponent down at the ground in Smash. He's never done this in a Mario game, but it's hardly contradictory. He's swung Bowser around by the tail before, after all.
Similarly, Rosalina has never used psychokinesis outside of Smash. However she demonstrates mind control. Mind control and psychokinesis are both powers involving manipulating your surroundings with your mind. So her doing the latter is not unbelievable due to the former.

Except psychokinesis and mind control are completely different powers under any standard, I really don't see how being capable of one can be considered evidence in any shape or form that she can do the other.


Also, for the last time, the Lumas were not needed for the universal reboot. Rosalina never says this. And in general, I'm sick of having to constantly repeat myself here. [/quote]
Then I guess the Lumas jumping into the black hole is just for decoration? They're very explicitly shown to be the ones to do it, Rosalina was pretty much just watching. "Rosalina never says this" is hardly relevant when we were directly shown that is the case. Besides, look at her explanation again, where exactly does she say she has any role in what's happening? She's telling you about what stars are doing, not about her own actions.

This is the seventh time I've had to go through these points in this thread. It isn't because anything I'm saying is a problem though, it's because different people are bringing up the same arguments because they can't be bothered to read the thread past the most recent page.

"Gee, people keep contradicting me, but it's obviously not because I'm wrong."

I'm reading your points right now, I played the same games as you, and I'm not convinced that Rosalina is capable of half the things you're saying she's capable of.

 

[Munomario777]

On the subject of the Lumas being the cause for the reboot and all, remember, the character in Smash is Rosalina and Luma. Rosalina and her whole Luma family are in this together. After all, Rosalina does summon multiple Lumas over the course of a Smash battle, meaning it's not just one Luma that counts as the character.

 

[Etc_Guy]

On the subject of the Lumas being the cause for the reboot and all, remember, the character in Smash is Rosalina and Luma. Rosalina and her whole Luma family are in this together. After all, Rosalina does summon multiple Lumas over the course of a Smash battle, meaning it's not just one Luma that counts as the character.

Ikr. Some people complained about getting 2 Mario reps in one game when we actually got ten along. (The other 8 is the Koopalings and Luma.)

 

[Wiley]

I'd say Duck Hunt has everyone beat, only because of the third member of the trio... myself.

I don't play him or have loyalty or bias, but the fact stands, the character is created to include the player. All of these characters exist in fictional environments, the Light Gun zapper is part of this world. So including my power in to the mix, I can hit the "off" switch on any one of these fighters. I could, in theory... buy/find/obtain and destroy every disk/cartridge/save file of their known existence and they can't do anything about it, saving duck hunt of course for debate sake.

Through Duck Hunt, the winner is me.

End of debate.

 

[Etc_Guy]

I'd say Duck Hunt has everyone beat, only because of the third member of the trio... myself.

I don't play him or have loyalty or bias, but the fact stands, the character is created to include the player. All of these characters exist in fictional environments, the Light Gun zapper is part of this world. So including my power in to the mix, I can hit the "off" switch on any one of these fighters. I could buy/find/obtain and destroy every disk/cartridge/save file of their known existence and they can't do anything about it, saving duck hunt of course for debate sake.

Through Duck Hunt, the winner is me.

End of debate.

The only problem is.... can you kill them with farts?

 

[Wiley]

The only problem is.... can you kill them with farts?

Not that I want to go down this path... but I think technically I could?

Wario knocks people away into areas that kill. The fart doesn't directly kill. So with that logic, I could put the legend of zelda OOT cartridge at edge of a cliff, bend over and maybe with enough practice and the proper diet push it over the edge breaking it. Destroying Ganon, Link, Sheik/Zelda in one blow.

Like I said, not a fan of this frame of mind... or flatulence in general. But for the sake of a point, there you go.

Duck hunt wins again.

 

[Gameboi834]

I think we can all agree that is the strongest character.

I won't go into detail but it's pretty self-explanatory.

 

[Etc_Guy]

I think we can all agree that is the strongest character.

I won't go into detail but it's pretty self-explanatory.

It's been too long since I watched the Super Mario Bros. 3 show.

 

[Mindles]

im just here to read the comments

 

[JFyst]

I would imagine that canonically speaking Link is the strongest, if everyone is saying ganon is tough ****, Fierce diety 4 life.