Who's Canonically the Strongest Character in Smash?

[Etc_Guy]

Not that she's actually powerful in canon, becuase she isn't, but WFT's sun salutation harnesses the power of sun gods, so in theory she could defeat Ganon.

Spoiler

I forgot about your post saying that. Yea, / would be the underdog that could defeat . The only other type of dog that could is . Cause hunter.

 

[Colonel_S]

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned this guy:

But if we're pretending that Brawl didn't happen, please proceed.

 

[ChikoLad]

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned this guy:

But if we're pretending that Brawl didn't happen, please proceed.

Well Sonic kinda removed him of his wings all by himself, with a simple Spin Dash, sooo...he can't be that big a deal really.

Is everyone just saying their favorite character?

It is pure coincidence that I like Rosalina a lot. I'd vouch for her being the most powerful alongside Shulk regardless of my feelings on the character.

And the fact that I am acknowledging Shulk as a potential rival (though Rosalina has experience on her side) at all, should prove that, as I have not played Xenoblade Chronicles and don't care for Shulk as a character right now outside of him having a funny voice and funny phrases in Smash.

 

[Etc_Guy]

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned this guy:

But if we're pretending that Brawl didn't happen, please proceed.

The image is broken so I don't know what it is.

 

[Reila]

The image is broken so I don't know what it is.

It is Tabuu, the final boss in SSBB.

Anyways, Sonic broke his wings in a surprise attack. Otherwise Sonic would be screwed like every other fighter in Brawl. Tabuu was OP.

 

[Colonel_S]

I don't think that anyone liked fighting Tabuu in Brawl, especially on the Harder difficulties of Boss Battle.
As much as I love Sonic, it was a surprise attack. And the story line for Subspace wasn't well written or explained anyway:

 

[ChikoLad]

It is Tabuu, the final boss in SSBB.

Anyways, Sonic broke his wings in a surprise attack. Otherwise Sonic would be screwed like every other fighter in Brawl. Tabuu was OP.

Surprise attacks are nearly every attack for Sonic though. Even one of his custom neutral B moves in Smash 4 is called "Surprise Attack".

Tabuu has to charge for a good few seconds for that off-wave move to work. That's ample time for Sonic to make his move.

 

[Halfy]

It is Tabuu, the final boss in SSBB.

Anyways, Sonic broke his wings in a surprise attack. Otherwise Sonic would be screwed like every other fighter in Brawl. Tabuu was OP.

If you remember from the subspace emissary, king dedede had buttons or pins or something that could revive Luigi, ness, and Kirby.

Toon link, jigglypuff, and wolf also never are shown as being turned into a trophy by tabuu.

 

[Reila]

Surprise attacks are nearly every attack for Sonic though. Even one of his custom neutral B moves in Smash 4 is called "Surprise Attack".

Tabuu has to charge for a good few seconds for that off-wave move to work. That's ample time for Sonic to make his move.

True, but if Tabuu knew about Sonic's presence there before Sonic attacked him, things would have been different.

Also, the off-wave move isn't the only move in Tabuu's arsenal.

Toon link, jigglypuff, and wolf also never are shown as being turned into a trophy by tabuu.

That is because those three weren't part of the Subspace Emissary storyline.

 

[ChikoLad]

I'd also like to note that Tabuu is FAAAAR from the biggest threat Sonic has faced:

Watch him take down a god, without Super form, while constantly dealing with his one weakness and biggest fear - water.

True, but if Tabuu knew about Sonic's presence there before Sonic attacked him, things would have been different.

Also, the off-wave move isn't the only move in Tabuu's arsenal.

Not really, because the move still takes time to charge. Sonic is literally "now ya see me, now you don't" with his speed. And even if Sonic didn't reach him on time to stop the off-waves, he could easily outrun them (and they don't appear to go very far).

And if Sonic can deal with the off-waves, he can deal with anything else Tabuu can throw at him. The off-waves are his most powerful move.

 

[Colonel_S]

If you remember from the subspace emissary, king dedede had buttons or pins or something that could revive Luigi, ness, and Kirby.

Toon link, jigglypuff, and wolf also never are shown as being turned into a trophy by tabuu.

Let's be honest: the subspace emissary storyline sucked. The only reason those three existed after you finished the game was so you could unlock every character through that mode.

And how times as Sonic been surprised attacked himself? Sonic Unleashed, Sonic 2006, and Sonic Adventure 2 come to mind.

And yes, Sonic Generations is an awesome game. Chaos is also kind of a panzy in that fight; he doesn't use his full potential as seen in Sonic Adventure's opening.

 

[Halfy]

That is because those three weren't part of the Subspace Emissary storyline.

But king dedede's pins?

 

[ChikoLad]

And how times as Sonic been surprised attack himself? Sonic Unleashed, Sonic 2006, and Sonic Adventure 2 come to mind.

Those are generally the result of him being overly casual around Eggman. The '06 one was just plot-induced stupidity altogether.

 

[Colonel_S]

Those are generally the result of him being overly casual around Eggman. The '06 one was just plot-induced stupidity altogether.

Touche on those two, but even as fast as Sonic is he isn't always the smartest guy around. I've played nearly every Sonic game and love the series, even the bad ones, so don't think that I'm just hating on Sonic here.
On the other hand, doesn't Subspace have A LOT of plot stupidity as well? Including Sonic's introduction, which could have been so much better?

 

[Halfy]

on another note, wouldn't most final smash attacks kill tabuu easily? (if smash ball spawned during the fight)

 

[Colonel_S]

on another note, wouldn't most final smash attacks kill tabuu easily? (if smash ball spawned during the fight)

Or they'd just turn into a Final Smash Trophy.

 

[Halfy]

Or they'd just turn into a Final Smash Trophy.

the wave attack could be dodged by rolling, I think.

 

[ChikoLad]

Touche on those two, but even as fast as Sonic is he isn't always the smartest guy around. I've played nearly every Sonic game and love the series, even the bad ones, so don't think that I'm just hating on Sonic here.
On the other hand, doesn't Subspace have A LOT of plot stupidity as well? Including Sonic's introduction, which could have been so much better?

Well here's how I look at it - yes, it was disappointing that Sonic only showed up at the very end of SSE (even if what he did was awesome in hindsight - he saved Nintendo!).

However, keep in mind that Sakurai himself created Tabuu. So if Sakurai didn't think Sonic was capable of stopping him, why would he go out of his way to make that his role in SSE? The "he was rushed in" excuse doesn't work, since Sakurai could have just as easily threw him in elsewhere, or even made him a secret character within SSE like Wolf, Jigglypuff, and Toon Link.

It should also be noted that a lot of people seem to think that the entire SSE cast is needed to defeat Tabuu. But that's actually false. When the cast gets turned into trophies, you can skip them while going through the levels they are located. Only 6 characters are mandatory to beating the game, and those characters are Kirby, King Dedede, Luigi, Ness, Bowser, and Sonic, as they are the only ones who get revived as part of the plot (or in Sonic's case, he is never turned into a trophy at all). So we can assume that any one of these characters could defeat Tabuu alone, since it's possible to do so in-game, and these characters are greatly inhibited in-game anyway compared to their canon abilities (moving on a 2D plane, Sonic being much slower than normal, Luigi being restricted to moves that resemble Mario's, etc).

So no, I really don't think Tabuu is that big a threat. His whole plan in SSE was not something he achieved in a second, it required careful planning. Tabuu is powerful enough as a fighter, but I don't think he's that huge a threat if we give these characters their canon arsenal. He's more of a tactician, IMO.

 

[Colonel_S]

Palutena can get captured and Ganondorf can be defeated, but we are still considering them as some of the most powerful. Tabuu gets defeated in one scenario where he is weakened considerably by a group of six that only exist so the Subspace has a plot line, and we're already calling him weak? The plot for Subspace is extremely weak and nonsensical on many accounts, including many characters not acting like themselves. That doesn't mean Sonic jumping wasn't awesome; I geeked the first time I saw that. Doesn't mean that it's not a structurally poor plot line.

Tabuu also has the same restrictions as the others (being stuck in a game) so we have that to consider, as well. Game bosses never use their full potential-- otherwise we'd never finish the game!

 

[ChikoLad]

Palutena can get captured and Ganondorf can be defeated, but we are still considering them as some of the most powerful. Tabuu gets defeated in one scenario where he is weakened considerably by a group of six that only exist so the Subspace has a plot line, and we're already calling him weak? The plot for Subspace is extremely weak and nonsensical on many accounts, including many characters not acting like themselves. That doesn't mean Sonic jumping wasn't awesome; I geeked the first time I saw that. Doesn't mean that it's not a structurally poor plot line.

Tabuu also has the same restrictions as the others (being stuck in a game) so we have that to consider, as well. Game bosses never use their full potential-- otherwise we'd never finish the game!

Tabuu did use his full potential. If anything, I'd argue the off-waves he uses in-game were better than the cutscene one.

Also I don't see how he was weakened considerably. His wings were broken by Sonic, but they were not there the whole time beforehand. He just generates new ones whenever he needs to use that move (though there is likely some period of charge time).

If anything, we can say for a fact that Sonic is the one character on the Brawl roster who can outright disable Tabuu's best move, if we don't limit him to the in-game mechanics, since he has outright shown he can do so (i.e. he has the strength, speed, and cunning to do it).

I also don't see what's structurally poor about this part of the plot. Did Sonic appear seemingly out of nowhere? At first glance, maybe. But Tabuu's entire plan was to draw various parts of the world together, along with whoever was in them. Sonic was simply one of the people roped in, it would seem.

It would be nice if we had a concrete explanation for why Sonic didn't join earlier. Even something simple, like "he was napping through the whole plot and suddenly got sucked into Subspace around the end". But based on what Tabuu's entire plan was, Sonic being in Subspace makes perfect sense.

 

[Colonel_S]

If Subspace was a movie, it would have gotten a low score on Rotten Tomatoes. There was zero explanation for anything, including what Tabuu was actually capable of (I still don't buy that Tabuu floating around so the player has a fair chance of attacking him multiple times is indicative of his best, just like how Master Hand is just toying with the characters in the final fight).
And yes, Sonic literally came out of nowhere. I wish we did have that concrete explanation.

 

[GunGunW]

Can Mario breath underwater? In the 2D games he can, in the 3D games he cannot. On the flip side he can survive lava in the 3D games yet they one shot KO him in 2D ones .

 

[TheDarkKnightNoivern]

If Subspace was a movie, it would have gotten a low score on Rotten Tomatoes. There was zero explanation for anything, including what Tabuu was actually capable of (I still don't buy that Tabuu floating around so the player has a fair chance of attacking him multiple times is indicative of his best, just like how Master Hand is just toying with the characters in the final fight).
And yes, Sonic literally came out of nowhere. I wish we did have that concrete explanation.

With no voice acting that's not exactly something that can be done

 

[ChikoLad]

Can Mario breath underwater? In the 2D games he can, in the 3D games he cannot. On the flip side he can survive lava in the 3D games yet they one shot KO him in 2D ones .

I go with the assumption that he can't, since he's human. *shrugs*

 

[Etc_Guy]

I go with the assumption that he can't, since he's human. *shrugs*

Then neither is Rosalina. From all the Wario games (except the first), he can survive lava no problem.

Why don't we discuss weaknesses. Some we can't be certain because of A. They haven't been in enough games (ex. ) or B. never seen fighting (ex. )

 

[Halfy]

Then neither is Rosalina. From all the Wario games (except the first), he can survive lava no problem.

Why don't we discuss weaknesses. Some we can't be certain because of A. They haven't been in enough games (ex. ) or B. never seen fighting (ex. )

Zelda was playable in hyrule warriors as a character that fights, and in one of the cdi games I think. Or do we not mention those...

 

[Etc_Guy]

Zelda was playable in hyrule warriors as a character that fights, and in one of the cdi games I think. Or do we not mention those...

I meant they haven't been playable in a lot of their home games. But anyway I know my favorite weakness.

's motivations: It's very simple actually. If there is no treasure it equals not worth it.

 

[ChikoLad]

Then neither is Rosalina. From all the Wario games (except the first), he can survive lava no problem.

Why don't we discuss weaknesses. Some we can't be certain because of A. They haven't been in enough games (ex. ) or B. never seen fighting (ex. )

Rosalina is not human, so we can't make human assumptions about her.

 

[GunGunW]

Does Brawl even mean anything to the canon versions of the characters anyway? In Brawl, they weren't really the characters, they were just trophies.

 

[Kirby Dragons]

Rosalina is not human, so we can't make human assumptions about her.

She actually is a human (according to the Mario Wiki, at least).

 

[ChikoLad]

She actually is a human (according to the Mario Wiki, at least).

What have I told all y'all about listening to Mario Wiki for anything plot related?

Rosalina was born human but has clearly transcended to become some sort of deity.

 

[Brickbuild101]

What have I told all y'all about listening to Mario Wiki for anything plot related?

Rosalina was born human but has clearly transcended to become some sort of deity.

I always thought she was just an immortal human with divine powers, but not necessarily a "true goddess".

 

[ChikoLad]

I always thought she was just an immortal human with divine powers, but not necessarily a "true goddess".

Goddess is merely an official title, one she's never referred to as. So no, she isn't one. That's not a point against her strength though (and honestly, they may as well call her one, her literal role is to play god).

 

[Etc_Guy]

Goddess is merely an official title, one she's never referred to as. So no, she isn't one. That's not a point against her strength though (and honestly, they may as well call her one, her literal role is to play god).

But can she do the SUPER JUMP PUNCH? Rosie could do super and jump, but no punch. Master Core's weakness is and . (For reasons.) Anyways, deities are always uptight about close combat and people who do break their style wins.

 

[ChikoLad]

But can she do the SUPER JUMP PUNCH? Rosie could do super and jump, but no punch. Master Core's weakness is and . (For reasons.) Anyways, deities are always uptight about close combat and people who do break their style wins.

Rosalina can just swing Master Core's own projectiles right back at it.

Way more practical and leaves way less of an opening than Super Jump Punch. I don't know why you would attempt that move when fighting Master Core. @_@

 

[Ravio_Yo]

Mario is human by the loosest meaning of the word. All of his feats are miles beyond human levels.

 

[ChikoLad]

Mario is human by the loosest meaning of the word. All of his feats are miles beyond human levels.

Most of his feats are the result of power-ups. His basic abilities are achievable by a real human athlete.

 

[Munomario777]

And how times as Sonic been surprised attacked himself? Sonic Unleashed, Sonic 2006, and Sonic Adventure 2 come to mind.

And yes, Sonic Generations is an awesome game. Chaos is also kind of a panzy in that fight; he doesn't use his full potential as seen in Sonic Adventure's opening.

In Unleashed, he was sneak attacked by a room custom made for that purpose, and I don't recall any Smash characters carrying those around Sonic 2006 was retconned, and in SA2 Sonic was sent to space because of Tails's... questionable IQ, not because of his own doing.

And Perfect Chaos is showing his full potential really, since the whole city is already in ruins by the time Sonic gets there.

 

[GunGunW]

Most of his feats are the result of power-ups. His basic abilities are achievable by a real human athlete.

Except this.

 

[Jabejazz]

Except this.

Let's not forget gravity-defying walljumps.
And brick destroying by weak punches.
And beyond human levels of pain endurance.