Who's Canonically the Strongest Character in Smash?

[deebeethedeity]

Please work on your english, these walls of text are getting hard to read.

You're throwing out a bunch of hypothetical situations where a pokemon could beat Mega mewtwo, and you're assuming that
1. the opponent has set up but mewtwo hasn't and
2. mewtwo doesn't have any moves but psychic type.

If he used calm mind twice, or nasty plot once, he would tear through just about every pokemon there is. (excluding pokemon with high defenses that cannot effectively attack back regardless) These following situations, i'm not even going to assume he's set up because he doesn't need it.

Mega mewtwo Y can use shadow ball or aura sphere and destroy steel/ghost arceus before it can even use swords dance. Same case for gengar and gardevoir, mewtwo is faster than gardevoir who is very flimsy vs Mewtwo, and he can tank a hit from Gengar and retaliate with an OHKO. (Mega gengar's STAB shadow ball does 77% of Mewtwo's health while Mewtwo's psystrike does 240% of gengar's health.)

BST wise, Mewtwo and lugia have the same hp and Mewtwo has enough attack to annihilate Lugia with thunder, even if Lugia has multiscale, Mewtwo can still take over 10 lugia attacks without fainting and retaliate by 2HKOing lugia.

Lol @ "better" ability, the ability doesn't matter if it can't last one turn against Mewtwo for the ability to activate.
Mew has a terrible bst, and isn't even in ubers because no matter what it can do, there's another pokemon that does it better.

Mewtwo is Worlds better than Mega Lucario at sweeping, Mega lucario is OU, Mewtwo is ubers. Lucario gets OHKO'd by Aura sphere, Mewtwo is faster so Lucario won't even be able to attack.

Do you even know what the pokemon metagame is like?

And also, Anime canon has mega mewtwo Y flying genesect into space in a matter of seconds and pretty much wrecking a downtown area with his battle, not that it matters because this is going by game canon, and the anime has major inconsistencies.

This.

This so ****ing much. Made my day

 

[Road Death Wheel]

Please work on your english, these walls of text are getting hard to read.

You're throwing out a bunch of hypothetical situations where a pokemon could beat Mega mewtwo, and you're assuming that
1. the opponent has set up but mewtwo hasn't and
2. mewtwo doesn't have any moves but psychic type.

If he used calm mind twice, or nasty plot once, he would tear through just about every pokemon there is. (excluding pokemon with high defenses that cannot effectively attack back regardless) These following situations, i'm not even going to assume he's set up because he doesn't need it.

Mega mewtwo Y can use shadow ball or aura sphere and destroy steel/ghost arceus before it can even use swords dance. Same case for gengar and gardevoir, mewtwo is faster than gardevoir who is very flimsy vs Mewtwo, and he can tank a hit from Gengar and retaliate with an OHKO. (Mega gengar's STAB shadow ball does 77% of Mewtwo's health while Mewtwo's psystrike does 240% of gengar's health.)

BST wise, Mewtwo and lugia have the same hp and Mewtwo has enough attack to annihilate Lugia with thunder, even if Lugia has multiscale, Mewtwo can still take over 10 lugia attacks without fainting and retaliate by 2HKOing lugia.

Lol @ "better" ability, the ability doesn't matter if it can't last one turn against Mewtwo for the ability to activate.
Mew has a terrible bst, and isn't even in ubers because no matter what it can do, there's another pokemon that does it better.

Mewtwo is Worlds better than Mega Lucario at sweeping, Mega lucario is OU, Mewtwo is ubers. Lucario gets OHKO'd by Aura sphere, Mewtwo is faster so Lucario won't even be able to attack.

Do you even know what the pokemon metagame is like?

And also, Anime canon has mega mewtwo Y flying genesect into space in a matter of seconds and pretty much wrecking a downtown area with his battle, not that it matters because this is going by game canon, and the anime has major inconsistencies.

you haven't ran the calculations have you. a nasty plot shadow ball only dose 25% of a bulky steel arecues life and 50% ghost. while after a swords dance Arcues kills it with extreme speed or judgement.

These are not hpothetical situation when almost any pokemon with a nasty plot and over 360 speed, can kill any thing. aka Mega lucario. and if mega lucario is physical it can one shot it with adaptability bullet punch after swords dance. Mew two just ain't that great because it lack the of priorety moves and lack of defence witch is more important because there is pokemon with absolutly rediculous attack stats like mega mawile hitting it with super effective sucker punch.

Hell people are saying the most borken pokemon in ubers right now is power herb geomancy xerneus.

Also on the note fo lucario being OU is because people are just now learnng how broken adaptability Sp atk mega lucario is. And if you knew about the meta game you would know that he has 2 out of 3 aprovals for banning to ubers.

Or the Pokes with unaware who ignore opponent stat boost. im sorry there just to many poke that kill mewtwo. Even agislash is capable of killing it while seting up on it.

And lugia can just use amnesia like every single lugia dose and survive whileist healing to full hp.

Choice band talon flame also one shots mewtwo. ( well it has a chance to. mewtwo x is garentee though)

In the end though im just saying if mew was the strongest than he should have the highest stat in every category Along with the best abillity for it. But it seems mewtwo aint the fastest, Physically strongest, the most bulky, the most defence, Specialy defencive, or the most rounded out pokemon. He only got the highest special attack. And total base stat (witch is still awsome btw)

And i apologige for my text im in college now and im training my self not to double space as much. I hope this is better.

 

[Admiral Pit]

Isn't today supposed to be Link discussion day, or am I missing something?

 

[Steelia]

im very well aware statistically he is the highest but no manga tv show or in game character has stated mega mewtwo to be the strongest.

Interestingly, while you're correct that it's never been said anywhere that Mega Mewtwo is the strongest, recent promotions for the Genesect movie (and even in the special Mewtwo: Prologue to the Awakening) stated regular Mewtwo as being "the most powerful Pokemon in the world", much like how Game Freak promoted Kyruem as "the most powerful Dragon-type Pokemon in the world". And if Mega Mewtwo X or Y are even more powerful than the original...

Yeah.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

Isn't today supposed to be Link discussion day, or am I missing something?

Link is a topic im now avoiding lol

Interestingly, while you're correct that it's never been said anywhere that Mega Mewtwo is the strongest, recent promotions for the Genesect movie (and even in the special Mewtwo: Prologue to the Awakening) stated regular Mewtwo as being "the most powerful Pokemon in the world", much like how Game Freak promoted Kyruem as "the most powerful Dragon-type Pokemon in the world". And if Mega Mewtwo X or Y are even more powerful than the original...

Yeah.

Im glad you understand hell i even reamember the creater saying in a interview that legendary pokemon each has their own myth's that is people belive. acrecus may be considered the god pokemon but he stated that its was not the pokemon that created pokemon just those in that regien belive as much.

 

[Muster]

you haven't ran the calculations have you. a nasty plot shadow ball only dose 25% of a bulky steel arecues life and 50% ghost. while after a swords dance Arcues kills it with extreme speed or judgement.

These are not hpothetical situation when almost any pokemon with a nasty plot and over 360 speed, can kill any thing. aka Mega lucario. and if mega lucario is physical it can one shot it with adaptability bullet punch after swords dance. Mew two just ain't that great because it lack the of priorety moves and lack of defence witch is more important because there is pokemon with absolutly rediculous attack stats like mega mawile hitting it with super effective sucker punch.

Hell people are saying the most borken pokemon in ubers right now is power herb geomancy xerneus.

Also on the note fo lucario being OU is because people are just now learnng how broken adaptability Sp atk mega lucario is. And if you knew about the meta game you would know that he has 2 out of 3 aprovals for banning to ubers.

Or the Pokes with unaware who ignore opponent stat boost. im sorry there just to many poke that kill mewtwo. Even agislash is capable of killing it while seting up on it.

And lugia can just use amnesia like every single lugia dose and survive whileist healing to full hp.

Choice band talon flame also one shots mewtwo. ( well it has a chance to. mewtwo x is garentee though)

And i apologige for my text im in college now and im training my self not to double space as much. I hope this is better.

Lolno, No Mewtwo is going to be using shadow ball on steel arceus, that's why i mentioned Aura sphere, which does 50% to steel arceus without buffs. Arceus can't even kill mega mewtwo Y with an extreme speed that's sword danced, and Mewtwo responds with a 2hko by either a stab psystrike or a move to exploit his weakness/neutral damage. And Mawile is returns to uselessness if Mewtwo or anyone on his team brings will o' wisp

And no, mewtwo Y does not need any buffs to Put lucario down. Unless Mewtwo is sent in on a swords danced lucario that uses close combat or bullet punch on the switching in turn and the next turn, mewtwo Y will OHKO lucario with aura sphere before he can do anything, Mewtwo doesn't even need a set up.

Power herb xerneas would KO mewtwo unless mewtwo has enough special defense EV's in which case Mewtwo 2hko's xerneas. Not to mention A Power herb xerneas becomes a liability if the enemy team has a single pokemon with roar. Or taunt, which mewtwo can learn.

Just about every semi good mega is on it's way to an impulse ban to ubers, Mega lucario is no different. Mega mewtwo will still OHKO him in any situation he can attack at all, He is just plain outclassed by mewtwo.

Unaware doesn't matter, quagsire and clefable can't touch Mewtwo who can ko them without any need for stat boosts. Aegislash's gimmick is king shield and setup, if any smart player is using mewtwo he can easily predict what aegislash will do and respond with a shadow ball which 2hko's aegislash even in shield form. Or Mewtwo can just use taunt and laugh his arse off while obliterating aegislash's gimmicky strategy.

Mewtwo can still 3 or 4hko a Multiscale lugia without setup, and Can use calm mind while Lugia is using amnesia to the point where it matters little what the lugia or any other poke does due to a +4 Sp def and sp atk lucario making a gigantic hole in the opponent's team. Heck, taunt still applies here, with Mewtwo just taunting lugia and proceeding to destroy it while attacks bounce off.

And no, Talonflame can't OHKO Mewtwo Y even with Max attack and a choice band, Worst case scenario mewtwo still has 5% left and OHKO's talonflame with Psystrike.

Look, you're just arguing specific situations where you think Mega mewtwo can be trumped, but it doesn't matter because Mewtwo is still the Most powerful pokemon there is, He has the numbers on his side and likely always will. If there's a pokemon that will try to set up, Mewtwo will outspeed, Taunt, and destroy that pokemon. If it's unaware, It statistically cannot stand up to Mewtwo regardless.

tl;dr- mewtwo can taunt, enemy can't set up, if enemy doesn't set up, mewtwo can still destroy enemy. Mewtwo wins

Interestingly, while you're correct that it's never been said anywhere that Mega Mewtwo is the strongest, recent promotions for the Genesect movie (and even in the special Mewtwo: Prologue to the Awakening) stated regular Mewtwo as being "the most powerful Pokemon in the world", much like how Game Freak promoted Kyruem as "the most powerful Dragon-type Pokemon in the world". And if Mega Mewtwo X or Y are even more powerful than the original...

Yeah.

And also this.

(I thought i remembered Mewtwo being referred to as the most powerful pokemon, but not where/when it happened, thanks for this.)

 

[Road Death Wheel]

Lolno, No Mewtwo is going to be using shadow ball on steel arceus, that's why i mentioned Aura sphere, which does 50% to steel arceus without buffs. Arceus can't even kill mega mewtwo Y with an extreme speed that's sword danced, and Mewtwo responds with a 2hko by either a stab psystrike or a move to exploit his weakness/neutral damage. And Mawile is returns to uselessness if Mewtwo or anyone on his team brings will o' wisp

And no, mewtwo Y does not need any buffs to Put lucario down. Unless Mewtwo is sent in on a swords danced lucario that uses close combat or bullet punch on the switching in turn and the next turn, mewtwo Y will OHKO lucario with aura sphere before he can do anything, Mewtwo doesn't even need a set up.

Power herb xerneas would KO mewtwo unless mewtwo has enough special defense EV's in which case Mewtwo 2hko's xerneas. Not to mention A Power herb xerneas becomes a liability if the enemy team has a single pokemon with roar. Or taunt, which mewtwo can learn.

Just about every semi good mega is on it's way to an impulse ban to ubers, Mega lucario is no different. Mega mewtwo will still OHKO him in any situation he can attack at all, He is just plain outclassed by mewtwo.

Unaware doesn't matter, quagsire and clefable can't touch Mewtwo who can ko them without any need for stat boosts. Aegislash's gimmick is king shield and setup, if any smart player is using mewtwo he can easily predict what aegislash will do and respond with a shadow ball which 2hko's aegislash even in shield form. Or Mewtwo can just use taunt and laugh his arse off while obliterating aegislash's gimmicky strategy.

Mewtwo can still 3 or 4hko a Multiscale lugia without setup, and Can use calm mind while Lugia is using amnesia to the point where it matters little what the lugia or any other poke does due to a +4 Sp def and sp atk lucario making a gigantic hole in the opponent's team. Heck, taunt still applies here, with Mewtwo just taunting lugia and proceeding to destroy it while attacks bounce off.

And no, Talonflame can't OHKO Mewtwo Y even with Max attack and a choice band, Worst case scenario mewtwo still has 5% left and OHKO's talonflame with Psystrike.

Look, you're just arguing specific situations where you think Mega mewtwo can be trumped, but it doesn't matter because Mewtwo is still the Most powerful pokemon there is, He has the numbers on his side and likely always will. If there's a pokemon that will try to set up, Mewtwo will outspeed, Taunt, and destroy that pokemon. If it's unaware, It statistically cannot stand up to Mewtwo regardless.

tl;dr- mewtwo can taunt, enemy can't set up, if enemy doesn't set up, mewtwo can still destroy enemy. Mewtwo wins

You are correct as with lucario as it can't kill mew two unless its phisical and SD but thats only a situation of course.

And your right about agislas as well for being incredible predictable since it only has one or 2 move sets.
And thank you for correcting me onj the talon flame.

But just like your saying taunt is very situational can if played wrong could end your mewtew early.

And my point with lucario making it look bad is that it dose its job better with more neutral coverage and no chance for a completly safe switch in unlike psychic stab moves and switching into a scarfed darkrai (extreamly risky but it happends)
and using dark void.

But regardless once the ubers metagame hits almost everything is situaltional since almost every poke in uber deteriates any form of strategie.

And yeah xerneus is a one hit wonder but its generally played pretty well with the pros though.

But yeah once again I just dont think its the most powerful since mew two can only do one job as a sweeper.
I personally feel for somthing to be the most powerful it has to be best in ever category of play. And there is plenty mewtwo can't do.

Besides taunt dosent really do much againt water spout kyogre since that thing is freaking BS but yeah thats still a stuation.

*edit* i just did the calcs and your right about steel and arceus not killing it but normal arcues kill it.
here are the calcs of that normal arceus extreme speed.

252+ Atk Silk Scarf Arceus Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Mewtwo Y: 219-258 (62 - 73%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Mewtwo could not one shot it.
Here is sword dance normal arcues.

+2 252+ Atk Silk Scarf Arceus Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Mewtwo Y: 435-513 (123.2 - 145.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

if alreadey Sword danced mewtwo has no shot at even attacking.
here are the calcs against mew two x

252 SpA Mega Mewtwo X Aura Sphere vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Arceus: 254-300 (57.2 - 67.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Mega mew two X technically wins if the arceus dose not Sword dance but if he dose this is the calc.

+2 252+ Atk Silk Scarf Arceus Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Mewtwo X: 325-384 (92 - 108.7%) -- 50% chance to OHKO

Basically arceus has a 50/50 chance of killing after a sd. But if the arceus was already Swords danced than arceus wins.

So arcues Has more chances of killing mewtwo in general than vise versa.

 

[Muster]

You are correct as with lucario as it can't kill mew two unless its phisical and SD but thats only a situation of course.

And your right about agislas as well for being incredible predictable since it only has one or 2 move sets.
And thank you for correcting me onj the talon flame.

But just like your saying taunt is very situational can if played wrong could end your mewtew early.

And my point with lucario making it look bad is that it dose its job better with more neutral coverage and no chance for a completly safe switch in unlike psychic stab moves and switching into a scarfed darkrai (extreamly risky but it happends)
and using dark void.

But regardless once the ubers metagame hits almost everything is situaltional since almost every poke in uber deteriates any form of strategie.

And yeah xerneus is a one hit wonder but its generally played pretty well with the pros though.

But yeah once again I just dont think its the most powerful since mew two can only do one job as a sweeper.
I personally feel for somthing to be the most powerful it has to be best in ever category of play. And there is plenty mewtwo can't do.

Besides taunt dosent really do much againt water spout kyogre since that thing is freaking BS but yeah thats still a stuation.

Not sure what you're trying to say about darkrai. Dark void, however, is negated by Mewtwo Y's amnesia, and Mewtwo X is neutral to dark type attacks, along with having a stab fighting which can deal with Darkai. While lucario has some safe switch ins, it has an the disadvantage of not being a good switch in to fire ground or fighting attacks.

Most powerful refers to the best sweeper, imo. A pokemon isn't powerful if it walls or uses protect and toxic or inflicts status effects. In terms of raw killing power stacked with other stats, mewtwo has it in the bag. (besides, only mew can properly play any position, and it gets outclassed in every position regardless, it only has the element of suprise on it's side.)

And Kyogre does OHKO a mewtwo that isn't invested enough in special defense, but a properly set mewtwo is still faster and stronger.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

Not sure what you're trying to say about darkrai. Dark void, however, is negated by Mewtwo Y's amnesia, and Mewtwo X is neutral to dark type attacks, along with having a stab fighting which can deal with Darkai. While lucario has some safe switch ins, it has an the disadvantage of not being a good switch in to fire ground or fighting attacks.

Most powerful refers to the best sweeper, imo. A pokemon isn't powerful if it walls or uses protect and toxic or inflicts status effects. In terms of raw killing power stacked with other stats, mewtwo has it in the bag. (besides, only mew can properly play any position, and it gets outclassed in every position regardless, it only has the element of suprise on it's side.)

And Kyogre does OHKO a mewtwo that isn't invested enough in special defense, but a properly set mewtwo is still faster and stronger.

Since when did mose powerfull refer to sweeping? i think being able to shrug off those powerfull attacks is somthing of equal power and merit.

What i was saying with darkrai is the very situational switch onto a phychic attack then dark voiding but yeah insomnia dose take care of that.

And yeah mega lucario can't really switch into anything really lol.

Ps i edited my last post have a look.

 

[Muster]

Since when did mose powerfull refer to sweeping? i think being able to shrug off those powerfull attacks is somthing of equal power and merit.

What i was saying with darkrai is the very situational switch onto a phychic attack then dark voiding but yeah insomnia dose take care of that.

And yeah mega lucario can't really switch into anything really lol.

Ps i edited my last post have a look.

pow·er·ful
adjective
1.
having great power or strength.
Mewtwo has a great sweeping power, making him a powerful pokemon, and as @ Steelia mentioned, mewtwo is referred to as the most powerful pokemon.

You don't seem to be taking into account that just about every other type of Arceus can be successfully put down by mewtwo. Mewtwo has the greatest advantage overall against arceus.

Not to mention you're only taking into account a minimal defense/hp mewtwo while using stats for a max atk/hp arceus. Mewtwo can be set up in multiple ways, you know.
(for example, since speed doesn't matter due to arceus using priority moves, Mewtwo doesn't need speed and can just have ev's set to HP, which stops a stab extreme speed from being an OHKO after SD and keeps his moves in the 2hko range.)
Mewtwo is still faster than arceus at minimum speed ev's as well.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

I know

pow·er·ful
adjective
1.
having great power or strength.
Mewtwo has a great sweeping power, making him a powerful pokemon, and as @ Steelia mentioned, mewtwo is referred to as the most powerful pokemon.

You don't seem to be taking into account that just about every other type of Arceus can be successfully put down by mewtwo. Mewtwo has the greatest advantage overall against arceus.

Not to mention you're only taking into account a minimal defense/hp mewtwo while using stats for a max atk/hp arceus. Mewtwo can be set up in multiple ways, you know.
(for example, since speed doesn't matter due to arceus using priority moves, Mewtwo doesn't need speed and can just have ev's set to HP, which stops a stab extreme speed from being an OHKO after SD and keeps his moves in the 2hko range.)
Mewtwo is still faster than arceus at minimum speed ev's as well.

Yes im taking in minimal defence mewtwo, im not being selective im just chosing the most common and EFFECTIVE sets for mewtwo. Your right mewtwo can efectively put down every other form other than acrcues Base form. the most Commonly used form.

And yes mewtwo can be set up in multiple ways but thats with the assistance of other pokemon and such but if we are 2 pit both these pokes to gether at the same time base arceus vs both mega mewtwos Arcues has more than a chance of winning. BUt like said mewtwo can taunt but if the arceus is already extream speeding it can still result in mewtwo being defeated.

Besides what constitutes as power? cause sure strength is one form of power same with mental powers. But in martial arts Defence is considered power because it ment as self defence The abillity to porctect ones self and those around in buddhist terminalogy is considered to be a great power than that of attacking.

Even in math for one to withstand a force or an attack the body must be 6 times as powerfull than the attack. (Neuton law for one to stop a force an equal and opposite force if needed. so lets say a projectile condenced energy blast hits a none moving target. The none moving target not only has to be equal power to the object but hass to have even more power to stop it since its a moving projectile.)

 

[Muster]

I know


im taking in minimal defence mewtwo im not being selective im just chosing the most common and EFFECTIVE sets for mewtwo. Your right mewtwo can efectively put down every other form other than acrcues Base form. the most Commonly used form.

And yes mewtwo can be set up in multiple ways but thats with the assistance of other pokemon and such but if we are 2 pit both these pokes to gether at the same time base arceus vs both mega mewtwos Arcues has more than a chance of winning.

Besides what constitutes as power? cause sure strength is one form of power same with mental powers. But in martial arts Defence is considered power because it ment as self defence The abillity to porctect ones self and those around in buddhist terminalogy is considered to be a great power than that of attacking.

Even in math for one to withstand a force or an attack the body must be 6 times as powerfull than the attack. (Neuton law for one to stop a force an equal and opposite force if needed. so lets say a projectile condenced energy blast hits a none moving target. The none moving target not only has to be equal power to the object but hass to have even more power to stop it since its a moving projectile.)

Who's to say that's the most effective set? It's not being "effective" if it can't take attacks from arceus or Kyogre, Mewtwo can run multiple sets and with the right set he can beat all of Arceus's sets.

Mewtwo Can be set up (EV and moveset wise) to effectively deal with any situation on his own. Not necessarily all at once, but he can still do so, and it's one of the main reasons he is the most powerful pokemon. You can't say it's the most effective EV spread if it can't deal with certain pokemon that another spread can deal with.
the most common=/= always the most effective.

Like i said before, Mewtwo is already stated to be the most powerful pokemon.

You're unnecessarily delving into newton's laws here when we're talking about pokemon. "Power" pokemon-wise equates to a Pokemon's ability to defeat other pokemon. A defensive pokemon isn't "powerful" if it can't beat the other pokemon in the long run. An offensive pokemon isn't "powerful" if it can't deal with a defensive pokemon.

This is why when a pokemon is referred to as "overpowered", people are referring to how the pokemon has little to no counters and can effectively deal with a large number of pokemon with little to no repercussions. Mega Kangaskhan was "overpowered" in OU because it could take an attack and dish out even more, effectively winning in each matchup and powering itself up with power up punch.

Mewtwo is powerful because It's fast enough to be able to KO pokemon that are strong enough to KO it before they can, bulky enough to take strong attacks even after a set up, and versatile enough to learn moves that stop the other pokemon from setting up and leaving gimmick pokemon helpless. This is what makes Mewtwo the most powerful pokemon, as well as being able to sweep entire teams from the beginning of a battle. "every category of play" is not applied here, because what we're talking about is undoubtedly the most powerful pokemon there is, denying this is like denying that the sun is the largest object in our solar system.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

Who's to say that's the most effective set? It's not being "effective" if it can't take attacks from arceus or Kyogre, Mewtwo can run multiple sets and with the right set he can beat all of Arceus's sets.

Mewtwo Can be set up (EV and moveset wise) to effectively deal with any situation on his own. Not necessarily all at once, but he can still do so, and it's one of the main reasons he is the most powerful pokemon. You can't say it's the most effective EV spread if it can't deal with certain pokemon that another spread can deal with.
the most common=/= always the most effective.

Like i said before, Mewtwo is already stated to be the most powerful pokemon.

You're unnecessarily delving into newton's laws here when we're talking about pokemon. "Power" pokemon-wise equates to a Pokemon's ability to defeat other pokemon. A defensive pokemon isn't "powerful" if it can't beat the other pokemon in the long run. An offensive pokemon isn't "powerful" if it can't deal with a defensive pokemon.

This is why when a pokemon is referred to as "overpowered", people are referring to how the pokemon has little to no counters and can effectively deal with a large number of pokemon with little to no repercussions. Mega Kangaskhan was "overpowered" in OU because it could take an attack and dish out even more, effectively winning in each matchup and powering itself up with power up punch.

Mewtwo is powerful because It's fast enough to be able to KO pokemon that are strong enough to KO it before they can, bulky enough to take strong attacks even after a set up, and versatile enough to learn moves that stop the other pokemon from setting up and leaving gimmick pokemon helpless. This is what makes Mewtwo the most powerful pokemon, as well as being able to sweep entire teams from the beginning of a battle. "every category of play" is not applied here, because what we're talking about is undoubtedly the most powerful pokemon there is, denying this is like denying that the sun is the largest object in our solar system.

0 SpA Mega Mewtwo Y Psystrike vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arceus: 166-196 (37.3 - 44.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

This mewtwo has full hp and defence and takes 3 hits to kill mewtwo. By this logic arceus can sword dance once and this out come will occur.

+2 0+ Atk Silk Scarf Arceus Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Mewtwo Y: 238-282 (57.2 - 67.7%) -- guaranteed
2HKO

Mewtwo x is the same case.

0 SpA Mega Mewtwo X Aura Sphere vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Arceus: 176-210 (39.6 - 47.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

It can sword dance than this will haapen

+2 0+ Atk Silk Scarf Arceus Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Mewtwo X: 190-225 (45.6 - 54%) -- 46.9% chance to 2HKO

But mewtwo x has a chance a surviving and thous defeating arcues

And im not needlessly diving into this law if it drives my point. Since ur debating a term that has many meanings Power is not just the abillity to attack and its foolish to think as much. But I say I must commend you iv never had such a great debate in a long time. (*cough superman vs goku *cough)
And im glad your being a good sport and debate with out getting to agressive like some might.

.

 

[RSF-Blue bomber]

man with all this mewtwo talk I forgot this was a smash bros thread

 

[Road Death Wheel]

man with all this mewtwo talk I forgot this was a smash bros thread

lol right? But it happends when people want to defend the second most overated pokemon in the series.

 

[pitthekit]

Dear Pokemon people.

Has critically hits ever affected the meta game?(boasting crit rate/probability)
How does the pokeman community view it?

Pokeman pokeman

 

[Road Death Wheel]

Dear Pokemon people.

Has critically hits ever affected the meta game?(boasting crit rate/probability)
How does the pokeman community view it?

Pokeman pokeman

criticals have a very huge impact for the metagame. Crits are compleatly random and can change a hopless situation in a battle to one you can win. (aka killing a threat you could not kill.) But crits are shuned apon as luck factors many people don't like to accept the loss if a criticall occured. many people don't like criticals but their importants to the randomness of battle is what makes battle different every time and makes sure that some impenetrable strategies can be broken open.

 

[Muster]

0 SpA Mega Mewtwo Y Psystrike vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arceus: 166-196 (37.3 - 44.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

This mewtwo has full hp and defence and takes 3 hits to kill mewtwo. By this logic arceus can sword dance once and this out come will occur.

+2 0+ Atk Silk Scarf Arceus Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Mewtwo Y: 238-282 (57.2 - 67.7%) -- guaranteed
2HKO

Mewtwo x is the same case.

0 SpA Mega Mewtwo X Aura Sphere vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Arceus: 176-210 (39.6 - 47.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

It can sword dance than this will haapen

+2 0+ Atk Silk Scarf Arceus Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Mewtwo X: 190-225 (45.6 - 54%) -- 46.9% chance to 2HKO

But mewtwo x has a chance a surviving and thous defeating arcues

And im not needlessly diving into this law if it drives my point. Since ur debating a term that has many meanings Power is not just the abillity to attack and its foolish to think as much. But I say I must commend you iv never had such a great debate in a long time. (*cough superman vs goku *cough)
And im glad your being a good sport and debate with out getting to agressive like some might.

.

Why are you taking all of it's special attack away? That's an idiotic set for mewtwo Y

252+ Atk Silk Scarf Arceus Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 252 Def Mega Mewtwo Y: 160-190 (45.3 - 53.8%) -- 43% chance to 2HKO

While Mewtwo Y has
252 SpA Mega Mewtwo Y Aura Sphere vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Arceus: 204-240 (45.9 - 54%) -- 48.4% chance to 2HKO
Mewtwo has a slight advantage in this situation.

And if Mewtwo X is given the right move, he destroys arceus.

252+ Atk Mega Mewtwo X Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arceus: 492-582 (110.8 - 131%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Giving Mewtwo a 3/4 Matchup against the only arceus that stands a chance.

And also, this is "canonically" the most powerful pokemon, and since his is referred to canonically as the most powerful pokemon, you have no case.

Pokemon only uses the attack term for power, you're incorrectly using other definitions.of the word.
and don't go using the word foolish when you thought that "deoxys ***** if we're going by bst".

lol right? But it happends when people want to defend the second most overated pokemon in the series.

You're just being petty, Mewtwo is statistically the strongest pokemon and has been officially stated to be the strongest pokemon, what else does there need to be to penetrate your thick skull?

Dear Pokemon people.

Has critically hits ever affected the meta game?(boasting crit rate/probability)
How does the pokeman community view it?

Pokeman pokeman

With Gen 6's new critical possibility, it is possible to exploit the system for a 100% crit rate.
The set i like to use is a sniper kingdra with scope lens and focus energy. and draco meteor:
Focus energy and scope lens power up the crit rate to 100%, sniper makes crits do 2.25 damage and draco meteor's negative stat afflictions are ignored by the critical hit.

Depending on who you ask, outlook on crits changes a lot. (Most likely due to the people who love or hate crits depending on how they helped or hurt recently.)

 

[Morbi]

Why are you taking all of it's special attack away? That's an idiotic set for mewtwo Y
252+ Atk Silk Scarf Arceus Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 252 Def Mega Mewtwo Y: 160-190 (45.3 - 53.8%) -- 43% chance to 2HKO
While Mewtwo Y has
252 SpA Mega Mewtwo Y Aura Sphere vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Arceus: 204-240 (45.9 - 54%) -- 48.4% chance to 2HKO
Mewtwo has a slight advantage in this situation.

And if Mewtwo X is given the right move, he destroys arceus.

252+ Atk Mega Mewtwo X Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arceus: 492-582 (110.8 - 131%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Giving Mewtwo a 3/4 Matchup against the only arceus that stands a chance.

Pokemon only uses the attack term for power, you're incorrectly using other definitions.of the word.
and don't go using the word foolish when you thought that "deoxys ***** if we're going by bst".


You're just being petty, Mewtwo is statistically the strongest pokemon and has been officially stated to be the strongest pokemon, what else does there need to be to penetrate your thick skull?


With Gen 6's new critical possibility, it is possible to exploit the system for a 100% crit rate.
The set i like to use is a sniper kingdra with scope lens and focus energy. and draco meteor.
Focus energy and scope lens power up the crit rate to 100%, sniper makes crits do 2.25 damage and draco meteor's negative stat afflictions are ignored by the critical hit.

Doesn't Arceus have the highest base stats, thus making him the most powerful Pokemon?

 

[Muster]

Doesn't Arceus have the highest base stats, thus making him the most powerful Pokemon?

That was the case until mega evolutions were introduced, Now mega mewtwo X and Y have a higher bst.

 

[Morbi]

That was the case until mega evolutions were introduced, Now mega mewtwo X and Y have a higher bst.

I see, I didn't realize that was what you were alluding to, I saw your assessment of them, but I thought we were just talking about Pokemon. I don't really consider Mewtwo Y as an individual Pokemon. I perceive him as more of a temporary transformation. I apologize.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

I see, I didn't realize that was what you were alluding to, I saw your assessment of them, but I thought we were just talking about Pokemon. I don't really consider Mewtwo Y as an individual Pokemon. I perceive him as more of a temporary transformation. I apologize.

your right he is a temporary form and requires a bond with a trainer and mewtwo nite 2 accomplish (excluding the movie but it had issues) But highest Bst total dose not technically mean most powerfull pokemon.

 

[Muster]

I see, I didn't realize that was what you were alluding to, I saw your assessment of them, but I thought we were just talking about Pokemon. I don't really consider Mewtwo Y as an individual Pokemon. I perceive him as more of a temporary transformation. I apologize.

That's all fine and dandy, most people overlook the BST bonus that mega evolution get.
(And some people just ignore them for their own fantasy version of the most powerful pokemon) [/passiveagressive]

 

[kataridragon]

Pokemon stuff. TL;DR. Honestly.

Can we just say that Mewtwo is one of the strongest non-god pokemon. Let's just say his abilities as an entity are demi-godlike.

I'm thinking of a ranking system based on character abilities and what they can actually accomplish as a guide to the battles.

Here are the ranks and description:

Human: Nothing special. No or extremely limited advanced abilities and no items if power. Example villager, little Mac, peach, fox, falco.
Fights in this category would play out like general fist fights to mild weapon battles.

Super human: May have limited items of power and or special abilities. Example: Mario, Luigi, Wario, yoshi.
Fights in this category would be fist fights with some wild abilities thrown in.

Greater super human: Has very potent items of power and or very strong abilities. "Gifted by gods" Example: samus, link, zelda, lucario. Fights in this category would be very destructive to nearby surroundings and show great power and energy blasts.

Demi godlike: Has extremely powerful traits such as invincibility, time control, teleportation, either through ability or items. Example: sonic, mewtwo, marth. Fights in this category would be very destructive to even far reaching areas potentially miles from the battle. Think DBZ.

Godlike: has powers that transcend space time. Able to manipulate cosmic entities. Invincibility, time control, teleportation may be some of this ranks lesser abilities. Example: Rosalina. Fights in this category would be cataclysmic to the universe and time space.

 

[Admiral Pit]

So anyways, can we try another character now? I'm itching to do some Pit and Palutena ones. Of course, I'm gonna need help from a few big KI followers so I don't get all my info wrong.

 

[Deleted member]

Tabuu, obviously.

 

[kataridragon]

Tabuu, obviously.

Good idea. Tabuu and the hands. How strong are they?

Also you know what would be a good fight? Samus vs Link. Samus would play a more offensive role while link would play a defensive role. Link would be reflecting energy blasts with his sword. They both have large life bars. That would be a cool fight.

 

[Superyoshiom]

Interestingly, while you're correct that it's never been said anywhere that Mega Mewtwo is the strongest, recent promotions for the Genesect movie (and even in the special Mewtwo: Prologue to the Awakening) stated regular Mewtwo as being "the most powerful Pokemon in the world", much like how Game Freak promoted Kyruem as "the most powerful Dragon-type Pokemon in the world". And if Mega Mewtwo X or Y are even more powerful than the original...

Yeah.

I've brought this up beforehand in this thread, but I feel the need to bring it up again with all this Mewtwo talk. Mega Mewtwo's BST (both X and Y) is the highest out of any Pokemon, so this does indeed mean that Mega Mewtwo is the strongest Pokemon.

 

[Roy of Pharae]

Pit with the sacred treasure wrecks any character that isn't Ganon. seeing how mega evolution is broken, it only seems to work when Pokemon have trainers. why do you think Mega Gengar was banned in online play?

 

[Admiral Pit]

Pit with the sacred treasure wrecks any character that isn't Ganon. seeing how mega evolution is broken, it only seems to work when Pokemon have trainers. why do you think Mega Gengar was banned in online play?

I can't really say that as much as I like Pit. Wait, it's Pit talk for today? But anyways, I remember somewhere a few pages back that Pit either said something that pertained to him being able to be resurrected without Palutena's help, but my memory's off. I'll come back to this while I hopefully can type a summary that's mostly about Pit's "Powers" that Palutena gave him. They may not mean much since it's probably not Pit's own strength, but he still uses said powers in Uprising, and I feel that knowing about each of em can help determine his overall strength.

 

[RelaxAlax]

In regards to sticking up for a character, you can't have biased. If you like a character that's fine and dandy, but you can't keep making cases for them when they are inferior to another character. Be rationale.

I haven't been keeping up with this thread as much. Maybe later I'll do that tier list again.
So today we're on Pit?

 

[pitthekit]

Anyone here know the strongest cannon incantation of Samus?

I say it is prime 2 Samus.

 

[Admiral Pit]

And that's why I'm gonna explain the Powers Palutena gave to Pit to use, and the possibilities of using em. At the same time, I can explain the weapon modifiers since I would think it'd may or may not help Pit in situations, while trying to not be biased. It'll be a long read once it's finished so I hope you're ready. I also hope some big KI supporters let me know if I miss something.

 

[RelaxAlax]

All I truly know are Sonic, Mario and Zelda series. Anything else I can't give input.

I should try metroid eventually....

 

[PadWarrior]

IMO I think Pit could wreck Ganon. He's fought some pretty nasty gods in his series.

 

[Admiral Pit]

I don't wanna say that Pit beats Ganon, but iirc, someone said the "Light arrows" could affect Ganon, and Pit himself has his own kind of light arrows, via "Arrow of Light" from the 3ST, so I might be able to say the angel could have slight chance against him only if he had the 3ST, but what do I know?

 

[Roy of Pharae]

well, Ganon can only be defeated via master sword or silver arrows. we haven't really seen the silver arrows since A Link to the past or so. I remember in Zelda: Twilight Princess, Zelda had used light arrows made by the three spring spirits against ganon

 

[kataridragon]

Correct me if I am wrong here but isn't there a speed run of ocarina of time where you can warp to the final battle with Gabon and beat him with a stick? Maybe I am crazy.

Someone should look this up. I am at work no time.

Ganondorf can be hurt by light arrows as seen in Twilight Princess. The master sword is not the only weapon that can hurt him. He may be buff but not invincible to other attacks. Sealing him is the problem.

I would say that Ganondorf can be damaged by magical weapons/attacks. Particularly weapons of light or good (holy). Pits weapons would be effective as well as samus light beam and annihilator beam.

This concept makes sense because Ganondorf is imbued with the power of darkness through demise while link and the master sword are imbued with holy through hylia. That's the way I see it at least

 

[Linkcrafter]

he has to play his ocarina. which gives the opponents more that enough time to beat him

Dude, haven't you played the game? Time is comepletly frozen while he plays.

 

[kataridragon]

Dude, haven't you played the game? Time is comepletly frozen while he plays.

I've played it. Does the ocarina really stop time when he plays or is that more of a game mechanic? After all why doesn't link just run around with his ocarina in his mouth all the time? Moon crashing into the planet! No worries I have my trusty time stop ocarina!

However how long could it take to play a song consisting of a few notes. He could run and play at the same time I guess.