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Who's Canonically the Strongest Character in Smash?

pitthekit

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We should mathematically measure characters powers I mean how much energy would be in Samus powershot?
Her light burst in echoes which is basically a moving sun?

Of course with human intuition we can have a broad understanding of who beats who but if Rosalina can create a black hole where as mewtwo can only destroy a building with his thought. Although mewtwo has mind control we have to ask if Rosalinas gravity shield would protect her. How does mewtwo mind control work?(via special particles?)

We need to know the technicals of every character who is god tier (a to s) to see who is the most strongest.
 

josh bones

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Today is Link day,
Mario +16
DK: +10
Mario +16
Bowser
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Link
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Pac Man
Ridley
 

CombatScouter

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Would Kirby's only measure of copying abilities in these hypothetical scenarios be to inhale his enemies? In the games, he's able to inhale select enemy attacks, and store a number of powers for later use (Squeak Squad). There are also the Copy Essence Deluxe, which essentially allow him access to many abilities at any time.
 

Road Death Wheel

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We should mathematically measure characters powers I mean how much energy would be in Samus powershot?
Her light burst in echoes which is basically a moving sun?

Of course with human intuition we can have a broad understanding of who beats who but if Rosalina can create a black hole where as mewtwo can only destroy a building with his thought. Although mewtwo has mind control we have to ask if Rosalinas gravity shield would protect her. How does mewtwo mind control work?(via special particles?)

We need to know the technicals of every character who is god tier (a to s) to see who is the most strongest.
From what was shown in the movies people and pokemon are more than capable of fighting off mind control.
 

Dr. Krumm

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When did Captain Falcon race the creators of the universe? Sounds like a pretty cool feat.
In F-Zero GX (on the Gamecube) the last mission on story mode is to race the creators of the universe as Captain Falcon! ;)

Was only a matter of time til the generic Falcon/Ganon thing would happen, which makes me cringe. At this point, idk what character we were supposed to be talking about today.
I wasn't serious about the C. Falcon thing. ^^

...

Though it's pretty cool to race the creators of the universe and win......
 
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pitthekit

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Links awakening incantation has magic powder which turns people into chus.

MM link can manipulate time and feelings.
Mm link has giants mask.

Oot link can carry a granite slab and throw it with the golden gauntlets.
 

Road Death Wheel

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Since people are wanting some link day stuff. I'll take a stab at making him S tier.
Composite link is S tier due to having ownage to the complete triforce (Wish granting item)
Outside of wishing Link also has invulnerable combinations of utiliy items like the Potion that give link limitless magic for 3 day.(in majora's mask its technically gives you magic forever but but you have to reset the events at the end of the 3rd day.)
Paired with naryu's wisdom (believe its called that) link can continuously put up the shield that prevents any damage whats so ever.
And even not with the magic link can use magic armor to lower damage along with fiore' love halveing damage.
Golden gauntlets increase links strengh 1000 fold (aka lifting granite pillars oot)
Mirror shield reflects all attacks (But only sends magic back 2 the enemy)
Golden master sword has the power of four master swords
The four sword along with it will split link into four with the same equipment
Link also knows destructive magic such as Din's fire and some electric one but i forgot the name of it.
Pegasus Boots boost link speed to greater hieghts.
Master sword refects all light based magic (electric counts too i heard.)
Link can do the skyward strike.
Link can shoot ice arrows that have the abillity to freeze volcanic islands.(Toon link series)
Link can lock on to anything thats a foe/ally/misc ( even invisible foes. oot)
Link can now travel on walls and take no damage in it. (unless some else can go into the wall.)
Fire rod shoots fire spirals


Im sure there is more. iv seen more effective combinations of links items to make him intangeble and still hit others.
Link Is s tier in my opinion but hey to each their own.
Ps some people might wana know What Composite link is. (Its basically a canon concept where a link retains all the ability's and items the links of his past or future had obtained. So links skill with a sword would probably be unparareled as well with the over 10 centuries of expeirence.
Oh and link has a magical orcarina that Freezes/ rewinds time
 
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PadWarrior

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You know it really doesn't matter. Jigglypuff would beat everybody. So that ends this thread.
 
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JediLink

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I think we should consider each Link separately and not try to amalgamate them all into one.
  • Ocarina of Time Link
  • Twilight Princess Link
  • Wind Waker Link
 

SmashShadow

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I don't think they should be separated except for the Toon games as we have Toon Link as well.
 

Road Death Wheel

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he has to play his ocarina. which gives the opponents more that enough time to beat him
in game canon is that time freezes around him when he play giving link as much time 2 F up and correct him self as he wants.

I think we should consider each Link separately and not try to amalgamate them all into one.
  • Ocarina of Time Link
  • Twilight Princess Link
  • Wind Waker Link
Then this should be considered smash link since there is no prof out side of designs that they are the same links of those games.
And i see no trouble what so ever with using composite link this whole thread has been using composite ganon and zelda.
 
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JediLink

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Then this should be considered smash link since there is no prof out side of designs that they are the same links of those games.
And i see no trouble what so ever with using composite link this whole thread has been using composite ganon and zelda.
The Link in 64 and Melee is obviously based on Ocarina of Time. His model in 64 is his exact model from OoT.
The Link in Brawl and SSB4 is based on Twilight Princess, which we know not only from his design and voice, but also because he has the gale boomerang and the clawshot.
Toon Link is from Wind Waker because he has the Wind Waker.

With Zelda and Ganondorf, their ability sets have been fairly consistent throughout the years. Zelda is adept at magic and is handy with a bow, while Ganondorf is a powerful dark wizard. On the other hand, Link's abilities are entirely different in every game, and each Link can do things that none of the other Links can. TP Link can transform into a wolf. WW Link can command the wind. ALBW Link can merge into walls. Combining every Link into one character would be like combining every Mega Man into one character.
 

Superyoshiom

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Hmm... If we use Ocarina of Time Link, then he could go back in time. That would definitely be helpful. Do you think he could go back to when his opponent was a baby and kill them there?
 

cmbsfm

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I wasn't serious about the C. Falcon thing. ^^

...

Though it's pretty cool to race the creators of the universe and win......
And he manages to kill them without doing...anything. All he did was race them and they just die? Did he do something of screen?

Also I think in the second f zero anime game, it says he survives the explosion or something..

I guess i'll just keep vouching for falcon. I think nintendo needs to make more f zero games and elaborate more on the characters.
 

Road Death Wheel

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The Link in 64 and Melee is obviously based on Ocarina of Time. His model in 64 is his exact model from OoT.
The Link in Brawl and SSB4 is based on Twilight Princess, which we know not only from his design and voice, but also because he has the gale boomerang and the clawshot.
Toon Link is from Wind Waker because he has the Wind Waker.

With Zelda and Ganondorf, their ability sets have been fairly consistent throughout the years. Zelda is adept at magic and is handy with a bow, while Ganondorf is a powerful dark wizard. On the other hand, Link's abilities are entirely different in every game, and each Link can do things that none of the other Links can. TP Link can transform into a wolf. WW Link can command the wind. ALBW Link can merge into walls. Combining every Link into one character would be like combining every Mega Man into one character.
Designs means nothing iv never seen link do that final smash in any of his games so where did it come from? Obviously not Oot or TP or WW cuz it aint the same link in that sence just like it aint the same mario. And what ganon was the one from melee?
the one from a tech demo? cuz he has a blasted sword he waved around when he won. So im vitually saying it dos not matter. what they look like in smash. Expecially since marth has never looked like that in any of his games the build was more manish (other than in FE awakening but still did'nt look like brawl marth) Besides the question is who is canonically the strongest in smash and i stated canon link will always be link all the incarnations are the same person differnt world and like a said people are doing Composite GANON like no tomarow so link should get the same liberty.

Ummm his bst is 780 while arceus is 720. Lol
Bst means nothing in canon Did the manga a video game character or the tv show state that Mega Mewtwo is more powerful?
Because if we are going by Bst than Deoxys ***** everyone.
 
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kataridragon

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About link:
He is just a normal human with several mystical items and a triforce. He himself is not powerful however his items can be to a degree. Most aren't going to scathe anybody. The chu powder is a stretch. Does it work on bosses or Ganondorf? If not than it obviously has limits to magic and size. As for the triforce.... It's not like a genie. It's more of like gives him the chance. It's a wish that you must complete. IMO. If it worked 100% demise would never resurrect as Ganondorf EVER!!! Link loses to Ganondorf at least once technically.

About mega Mewtwo:
I'm sure he has telepathy and if indeed it as weak stated it can probably only fully (complete brainwash) work on animals with low constitution.... Like generic pokemon (bidoofs and stuff)

About Kirby:
He is really really short. He probably can't actually inhale all the characters.... Although he does have that new power in triple deluxe that's a pretty intense suck. Super speed or time manipulation could escape it. He could be seduced by mind control I would think.

Samus write up:
Arsenal: Missles, bombs, beams, space ship, beams combined with missiles, various additional secondary tech.

Beams: Pure energy, ice, various wave forms, plasma, phazon, light energy, dark energy, light/dark energy (spacial rend?). And more I'm probably missing.

Visor: capable of seeing several frequencies even temporal. Scanning for battle tactics. On board computer.

Extreme speed and agility on earth or relatable gravitates due to zebes intense gravity and choZo blood

Achilles heel: Tech Reliant.
As seen in metroid prime a concussive blast can render lots of her suits capabilities offline.
 
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Spire

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Rosalina basically has the power of the Triforce at her fingertips, though billionfold. She can recreate the entire Universe in a whim. She can repurpose anyone into a new form with a Universe reboot. As such, not even Mewtwo, arguably the most individually potent entity in the Smash universe, could undo her... unless he could control her psychically...

I'd say it comes down to Rosalina vs. Mewtwo. She is basically a deity, while Mewtwo is the most powerful mortal. It's actually rather mythological.
 
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Muster

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Bst means nothing in canon Did the manga a video game character or the tv show state that Mega Mewtwo is more powerful?
Because if we are going by Bst than Deoxys ***** everyone.
Deoxys in all forms has a BST of 180 less than Mega mewtwo, heck, He's weaker than regular mewtwo by 80.
BST is pretty much the only statistic we have when measuring strength of Pokemon comparatively, and mega Mewtwo has the highest BST of any Pokemon in any official Pokemon game, he is undoubtedly the strongest Pokemon there is.
 

Road Death Wheel

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About link:
He is just a normal human with several mystical items and a triforce. He himself is not powerful however his items can be to a degree. Most aren't going to scathe anybody. The chu powder is a stretch. Does it work on bosses or Ganondorf? If not than it obviously has limits to magic and size. As for the triforce.... It's not like a genie. It's more of like gives him the chance. It's a wish that you must complete. IMO. If it worked 100% demise would never resurrect as Ganondorf EVER!!! Link loses to Ganondorf at least once technically.

About mega Mewtwo:
I'm sure he has telepathy and if indeed it as weak stated it can probably only fully (complete brainwash) work on animals with low constitution.... Like generic pokemon (bidoofs and stuff)

About Kirby:
He is really really short. He probably can't actually inhale all the characters.... Although he does have that new power in triple deluxe that's a pretty intense suck. Super speed or time manipulation could escape it. He could be seduced by mind control I would think.

Samus write up:
Arsenal: Missles, bombs, beams, space ship, beams combined with missiles, various additional secondary tech.

Beams: Pure energy, ice, various wave forms, plasma, phazon, light energy, dark energy, light/dark energy (spacial rend?). And more I'm probably missing.

Visor: capable of seeing several frequencies even temporal. Scanning for battle tactics. On board computer.

Extreme speed and agility on earth or relatable gravitates due to zebes intense gravity and choZo blood

Achilles heel: Tech Reliant.
As seen in metroid prime a concussive blast can render lots of her suits capabilities offline.
if you paid attention to the end demise cursed link so that they will battle for eternity. Besides i think the golden master sword and the golden gauntlets can more than scath anybody.

Deoxys in all forms has a BST of 180 less than Mega mewtwo, heck, He's weaker than regular mewtwo by 80.
BST is pretty much the only statistic we have when measuring strength of Pokemon comparatively, and mega Mewtwo has the highest BST of any Pokemon in any official Pokemon game, he is undoubtedly the strongest Pokemon there is.
im very well aware statistically he is the highest but no manga tv show or in game character has stated mega mewtwo to be the strongest. Ghost acreus and steel arceus both end mega mewtwo y and X. why you ask arceus ABILLITY is broken and his STAT distribution mega mew two has no defence and can easily be one shot by a swords dance steel ar ghost arecues.Mega gengar and gardevoir both beat it as well. And ur talking over rall bst total right? mewtwo cant kill a lugia wana know why? hp and mixed defences nothing mewtwo can do will kill it. speed boost blaziken better ability making it beter. Mew? know every move and dose broken stuff with it mew two can only do one job but can't kill anything whos job is to protect against thoughs types of moves why? because mewtwo aint the most powerfull pokemon around. And Mega Mewtwo aint even the best at what he dose since Adaptability special attacking mega lucario is already a better sweeper making mega mewtwo look bad in comparison.
 
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JediLink

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Designs means nothing iv never seen link do that final smash in any of his games so where did it come from? Obviously not Oot or TP or WW cuz it aint the same link in that sence just like it aint the same mario. And what ganon was the one from melee?
the one from a tech demo? cuz he has a blasted sword he waved around when he won. So im vitually saying it dos not matter. what they look like in smash. Expecially since marth has never looked like that in any of his games the build was more manish (other than in FE awakening but still did'nt look like brawl marth) Besides the question is who is canonically the strongest in smash and i stated canon link will always be link all the incarnations are the same person differnt world and like a said people are doing Composite GANON like no tomarow so link should get the same liberty.
Okay, um, this is kind of difficult to read. No offense.

I'm going to try to explain this as best as I can. When people talk about Ganondorf, the things that come up are generally how he's almost invincible, he's very strong physically, he has a lot of dark magic, and he wields the Triforce of Power. This description applies to EVERY Ganondorf, so it really doesn't matter which one you're actually talking about.

But consider Toon Link. Can Toon Link turn into a wolf? Can Toon Link go into walls? Does Toon Link have a fire rod? No, so you can't count that.

Every Link is a different character with different abilities, and should be considered separately. It makes no sense to want to combine them.
 

Road Death Wheel

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Okay, um, this is kind of difficult to read. No offense.

I'm going to try to explain this as best as I can. When people talk about Ganondorf, the things that come up are generally how he's almost invincible, he's very strong physically, he has a lot of dark magic, and he wields the Triforce of Power. This description applies to EVERY Ganondorf, so it really doesn't matter which one you're actually talking about.

But consider Toon Link. Can Toon Link turn into a wolf? Can Toon Link go into walls? Does Toon Link have a fire rod? No, so you can't count that.

Every Link is a different character with different abilities, and should be considered separately. It makes no sense to want to combine them.
Toon link is Composite link since composite link is all links. And you said most. People brought up beast ganon pig ganon and average ganon because the rules of the fourm state What CHARACTER is the strongerest so if ur gunna talk about the character ur gunna talk about the character in any incarnation because thats still the character. And i appologize perhaps i was ranting hard on that section but i was basically saying mhat link ever used his final smash? none and so forth so it cant possibly be the same link as the games you metioned thous making and entirly different link that only belongs to the smash universe. If you get what im saying, that being slective on what link it is is imposible because no link has ever done the air up b or the final smash. so we can't talk about the individual power of selective series links because its not the same person but if we talk about link as a whole than we can cover all the links including smash link. I apollogize for my rants my docter say's im kinda autistic if that means anything.
 

JediLink

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Toon link is Composite link since composite link is all links. And you said most. People brought up beast ganon pig ganon and average ganon because the rules of the fourm state What CHARACTER is the strongerest so if ur gunna talk about the character ur gunna talk about the character in any incarnation because thats still the character. And i appologize perhaps i was ranting hard on that section but i was basically saying mhat link ever used his final smash? none and so forth so it cant possibly be the same link as the games you metioned thous making and entirly different link that only belongs to the smash universe. If you get what im saying, that being slective on what link it is is imposible because no link has ever done the air up b or the final smash. so we can't talk about the individual power of selective series links because its not the same person but if we talk about link as a whole than we can cover all the links including smash link. I apollogize for my rants my docter say's im kinda autistic if that means anything.
Look at the title. It says "Who's Canonically the Strongest Character in Smash?"

The important word is canonically, which means we're not looking at their abilities in Smash (which is non-canon), but the official, canonical games that character is from. Like I already said, 64/Melee Link = Ocarina of Time, Brawl/SSB4 Link = Twilight Princess and Toon Link = Wind Waker.

There's no such thing as composite Link. That would only be possible in a non-canon appearance like Soulcalibur 2, which is irrelevant to this discussion. We're looking at the canonical abilities of each Link, which means looking at the aforementioned games (OoT, WW and TP).
 

kataridragon

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if you paid attention to the end demise cursed link so that they will battle for eternity. Besides i think the golden master sword and the golden gauntlets can more than scath anybody.
Ya I just don't pay attention... That's it. (Sarcasm)
So a curse is better than the triforce? Demise curse link effectively negating the triforces power. I'm not saying it's not powerful it just doesn't do exactly what hyrulian lore would have you think it does. True. It's more like the triforce gives you a limited god power one time.

Anyways. Golden sword just does more damage. It's better than a master sword but it's not really anything really really special. (See falchion for some broken stuff). golden gauntlets I guess give him more arm strength. The question is can he lift more only? Or is it more rounded out. He could lift a car but can't walk with it? I guess he can arm wrestle pretty well.

He still no super being powers he is tougher on the low end but doesn't break into the all powerful. High mid tier. But not even close to a low high tier.

Edit:
Super Sonic vs Mewtwo? What's stoping sonic from dominating this matchup exactly?
 
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Road Death Wheel

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Look at the title. It says "Who's Canonically the Strongest Character in Smash?"

The important word is canonically, which means we're not looking at their abilities in Smash (which is non-canon), but the official, canonical games that character is from. Like I already said, 64/Melee Link = Ocarina of Time, Brawl/SSB4 Link = Twilight Princess and Toon Link = Wind Waker.

There's no such thing as composite Link. That would only be possible in a non-canon appearance like Soulcalibur 2, which is irrelevant to this discussion. We're looking at the canonical abilities of each Link, which means looking at the aforementioned games (OoT, WW and TP).
Somebody hasent read in hyrule historyia that in one point in links life he obtains the memories of his previous lives alond with magic and the such. But hey i appologize if i upset you and im also starting to think this argument is really providing much results since we are obvioulsy debating fantasy. this is kinda becoming the cloud vs link page on youtube to be honest and its kinda upsetting. Agree to disagree?
 

Road Death Wheel

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Ya I just don't pay attention... That's it. (Sarcasm)
So a curse is better than the triforce? Demise curse link effectively negating the triforces power. I'm not saying it's not powerful it just doesn't do exactly what hyrulian lore would have you think it does. True. It's more like the triforce gives you a limited god power one time.

Anyways. Golden sword just does more damage. It's better than a master sword but it's not really anything really really special. (See falchion for some broken stuff). golden gauntlets I guess give him more arm strength. The question is can he lift more only? Or is it more rounded out. He could lift a car but can't walk with it? I guess he can arm wrestle pretty well.

He still no super being powers he is tougher on the low end but doesn't break into the all powerful. High mid tier. But not even close to a low high tier.
Im not saying the tri force is weaker because it is not its just like in every fantasy you have to be specific with a wish or it wont have the desired out come. link wished demise gone so he came back as ganon, its not breaking the wish.

also ur kinda right on the golden gauntlets end since they give like the abillity to with stand preassure 1000 times fold.
the goulden gauntlets are like the silver gauntlets alowing like to push life and carry things But to a much greater extent.

so its kinda in a point where link is in a limbo like state in the tier list as to not being invicible off of orcarina of time link items alone. So basically God bending defences but he can't really scratch anything high a tier or s tier.

so i guess when megaman chooses his weapons time pause as well. come on dude that not canon at all
Lol tell that to hyrule historia.
 
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JediLink

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Somebody hasent read in hyrule historyia that in one point in links life he obtains the memories of his previous lives alond with magic and the such. But hey i appologize if i upset you and im also starting to think this argument is really providing much results since we are obvioulsy debating fantasy. this is kinda becoming the cloud vs link page on youtube to be honest and its kinda upsetting. Agree to disagree?
Transferring memories is one thing. Transferring physical objects like the Fire Rod, the Ocarina of Time, the Wind Waker, Zant's dark shard or Ravio's Bracelet is another.

You're not upsetting me, you're just saying things that logically don't make any sense.
 

Road Death Wheel

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you are correct you can't transfer items but if the memories are tranferred the location of said items are to be in memories as well correct? We can always say that they got lost to histories great decay if you like though.
(this is basically how the premiss of composite link came to be. though its flawed of course since the zelda time line branches into 3 time zones witch is the oot,TP and majoras mask and everything before those games.
Toon links branch of the time line is different so he would not actually be able to find all such items since different times zones yeild different items correct? but toon link and link alike would be technically able to scounge the earth for the items all the way back 2 skyward sword the beggining of the legend.)
Ps the third time line is the crappy cdi zelda games.
 
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deebeethedeity

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im very well aware statistically he is the highest but no manga tv show or in game character has stated mega mewtwo to be the strongest. Ghost acreus and steel arceus both end mega mewtwo y and X. why you ask arceus ABILLITY is broken and his STAT distribution mega mew two has no defence and can easily be one shot by a swords dance steel ar ghost arecues.Mega gengar and gardevoir both beat it as well. And ur talking over rall bst total right? mewtwo cant kill a lugia wana know why? hp and mixed defences nothing mewtwo can do will kill it. speed boost blaziken better ability making it beter. Mew? know every move and dose broken stuff with it mew two can only do one job but can't kill anything whos job is to protect against thoughs types of moves why? because mewtwo aint the most powerfull pokemon around. And Mega Mewtwo aint even the best at what he dose since Adaptability special attacking mega lucario is already a better sweeper making mega mewtwo look bad in comparison.
Umm since when is anime canon above the game one?
 

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im very well aware statistically he is the highest but no manga tv show or in game character has stated mega mewtwo to be the strongest. Ghost acreus and steel arceus both end mega mewtwo y and X. why you ask arceus ABILLITY is broken and his STAT distribution mega mew two has no defence and can easily be one shot by a swords dance steel ar ghost arecues.Mega gengar and gardevoir both beat it as well. And ur talking over rall bst total right? mewtwo cant kill a lugia wana know why? hp and mixed defences nothing mewtwo can do will kill it. speed boost blaziken better ability making it beter. Mew? know every move and dose broken stuff with it mew two can only do one job but can't kill anything whos job is to protect against thoughs types of moves why? because mewtwo aint the most powerfull pokemon around. And Mega Mewtwo aint even the best at what he dose since Adaptability special attacking mega lucario is already a better sweeper making mega mewtwo look bad in comparison.
Please work on your english, these walls of text are getting hard to read.

You're throwing out a bunch of hypothetical situations where a pokemon could beat Mega mewtwo, and you're assuming that
1. the opponent has set up but mewtwo hasn't and
2. mewtwo doesn't have any moves but psychic type.

If he used calm mind twice, or nasty plot once, he would tear through just about every pokemon there is. (excluding pokemon with high defenses that cannot effectively attack back regardless) These following situations, i'm not even going to assume he's set up because he doesn't need it.

Mega mewtwo Y can use shadow ball or aura sphere and destroy steel/ghost arceus before it can even use swords dance. Same case for gengar and gardevoir, mewtwo is faster than gardevoir who is very flimsy vs Mewtwo, and he can tank a hit from Gengar and retaliate with an OHKO. (Mega gengar's STAB shadow ball does 77% of Mewtwo's health while Mewtwo's psystrike does 240% of gengar's health.)

BST wise, Mewtwo and lugia have the same hp and Mewtwo has enough attack to annihilate Lugia with thunder, even if Lugia has multiscale, Mewtwo can still take over 10 lugia attacks without fainting and retaliate by 2HKOing lugia.

Lol @ "better" ability, the ability doesn't matter if it can't last one turn against Mewtwo for the ability to activate.
Mew has a terrible bst, and isn't even in ubers because no matter what it can do, there's another pokemon that does it better.

Mewtwo is Worlds better than Mega Lucario at sweeping, Mega lucario is OU, Mewtwo is ubers. Lucario gets OHKO'd by Aura sphere, Mewtwo is faster so Lucario won't even be able to attack.

Do you even know what the pokemon metagame is like?

And also, Anime canon has mega mewtwo Y flying genesect into space in a matter of seconds and pretty much wrecking a downtown area with his battle, not that it matters because this is going by game canon, and the anime has major inconsistencies.
 
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