Who's Canonically the Strongest Character in Smash?

[PadWarrior]

S tier

A tier

B tier

C tier
||
D tier

E tier

No Mega Man, WFT and Villager?

 

[JediLink]

A wild Pikachu shoots a bolt of lightning at Snake. You can't "master tactician" your way out of that, unless he has something that can stop the volts of electricity doing their best to melt his face.

Of course, he just mashes the the circle button to regain his health. Then he proceeds to tranq Pikachu and wring its neck. Do you even MGS, bro?

 

[kataridragon]

I think sonic should be way higher up on that list. Super Sonic basically beats everything. Invincibility, invulnerability, flight, super speed, And basically TOD. Guaranteed he beats just about everyone canon.

Edit: On that last list super sonic dominates A-F and Ganondorf. Mewtwo has some slick psychic powers. That would be an interesting fight. Also super sonic can fly through space unharmed.

 

[RelaxAlax]

As I stated before,

"Ganondorf is also really strong. It's not just the Master Sword as his only weakness. Because of the Triforce of Power (And being born a Gerudo also allowed him to be pretty nifty with fighting skills) he has near immortality. Look it up. In the Zelda games he doesn't utilize it as much as I think he should because anyone foolish enough to challenge him would die and the only one who can challenge him, Link, has his one weakness, so ofcourse he'll be a bit more careful. You never see Ganondorf in a fight with anyone other than Link."

I'm sure if Ganondorf was shown fighting other beings, they'd be obliterated. Remember he can only ever be sealed by anyone else (Cough cough sages ... GODS) but only the Hero of Time can make a stand. It's the Zelda archetype.

So if Mewtwo can seal Ganondorf, he wins. And I'm talking dimension sealing, twilight realm type stuff . Can he do that?

I think it's fair to say Ganondorf and Mewtwo make up the top of the list though,

I think sonic should be way higher up on that list. Super Sonic basically beats everything. Invincibility, invulnerability, flight, super speed, And basically TOD. Guaranteed he beats just about everyone canon.

When he's Super Sonic that is. That last not too long when triggered. In a fight he'd need to utilize it before Mewtwo gets the upper hand, or seal Ganon before he can do anything about it.

 

[Muster]

I think sonic should be way higher up on that list. Super Sonic basically beats everything. Invincibility, invulnerability, flight, super speed, And basically TOD. Guaranteed he beats just about everyone canon.

It also has a time limit. Mewtwo can teleport away, ganondorf is invincible nonetheless, PT can manipulate time, and Marth is also invulnerable to it.

 

[RelaxAlax]

Does Ike has a similar invulnerability like Marth? What about Roy?

 

[RODO]

This is probably my 3rd time saying this, but I still think we need to analyze everyone's power and abilities and have that laid out before we can start deciding who beats who. The reasons for this are because:

1. It makes it easier for those who don't understand certain characters powers to know what's going on.
2. It makes it easier to weed out which abilities are legit and which aren't.

Then by comparing what each person is capable of (for example can they destroy a planet?) then it should be much easier to determine tiers. Making each character fight the whole cast is much more time consuming imo. Find the strongest characters, then argue about match-ups later (because technically the strongest character in a game can lose to someone weaker due to skill/intelligence/luck/outside help etc).

 

[kataridragon]

It also has a time limit. Mewtwo can teleport away, ganondorf is invincible nonetheless, PT can manipulate time, and Marth is also invulnerable to it.

Ok so Mewtwo teleports. He eventually runs out of pp and sonic is pretty darn fast. Besides his powers aren't time based. They are ring based. Super sonic manipulates time as well since time and the speed of light are related considering that sonic himself probably can approach that speed (physics in non physics based discussion). Although how is marth invulnerable? Also why is Ganondorf invulnerable as well?

This is probably my 3rd time saying this, but I still think we need to analyze everyone's power and abilities and have that laid out before we can start deciding who beats who. The reasons for this are because:

1. It makes it easier for those who don't understand certain characters powers to know what's going on.
2. It makes it easier to weed out which abilities are legit and which aren't.

Then by comparing what each person is capable of (for example can they destroy a planet?) then it should be much easier to determine tiers. Making each character fight the whole cast is much more time consuming imo. Find the strongest characters, then argue about match-ups later (because technically the strongest character in a game can lose to someone weaker due to skill/intelligence/luck/outside help etc).

This!

 

[RelaxAlax]

I've given my description for Ganondorf multiple times. But RODO is right, we need to lay all the cards on the table.

 

[Muster]

Ok so Mewtwo teleports. He eventually runs out of pp and sonic is pretty darn fast. Besides his powers aren't time based. They are ring based. Super sonic manipulates time as well since time and the speed of light are related considering that sonic himself probably can approach that speed (physics in non physics based discussion). Although how is marth invulnerable? Also why is Ganondorf invulnerable as well?

Sonic has never canonically manipulated time with super sonic.
Ganondorf can only die to the master sword.
Marth's Falchion renders him invulnerable to all non manakete based attacks.

Does Ike has a similar invulnerability like Marth? What about Roy?

I'm not 100% sure about ike, his ragnell is not enchanted but can be used long range, unlike the falchion. (He also killed a god for what it's worth)
Roy's Binding blade can shoot fire and is awesome, but Roy's basically just a kid, and isn't on the same tier as Marth or Ike.

Double post, for shame....

Sealing huh? As far as Ganondorf goes sure he is sealed away whatever. Would escorting him into space and leaving him there work as winning? He has no means of returning until he reincarnates or something. I say sonic can win that.

Ganondorf has magic and can teleport.

Same with marth. He doesn't need to attack them physically he just powers up flies them to space and leaves them.... Marth will die in space.

Assuming he has enough rings. Sonic wouldn't be able to touch Marth if he couldn't attack him.

 

[kataridragon]

As I stated before,

"Ganondorf is also really strong. It's not just the Master Sword as his only weakness. Because of the Triforce of Power (And being born a Gerudo also allowed him to be pretty nifty with fighting skills) he has near immortality. Look it up. In the Zelda games he doesn't utilize it as much as I think he should because anyone foolish enough to challenge him would die and the only one who can challenge him, Link, has his one weakness, so ofcourse he'll be a bit more careful. You never see Ganondorf in a fight with anyone other than Link."

I'm sure if Ganondorf was shown fighting other beings, they'd be obliterated. Remember he can only ever be sealed by anyone else (Cough cough sages ... GODS) but only the Hero of Time can make a stand. It's the Zelda archetype.

So if Mewtwo can seal Ganondorf, he wins. And I'm talking dimension sealing, twilight realm type stuff . Can he do that?

I think it's fair to say Ganondorf and Mewtwo make up the top of the list though,

Sealing huh? As far as Ganondorf goes sure he is sealed away whatever. Would escorting him into space and leaving him there work as winning? He has no means of returning until he reincarnates or something. I say sonic can win that.

Sealing huh? As far as Ganondorf goes sure he is sealed away whatever. Would escorting him into space and leaving him there work as winning? He has no means of returning until he reincarnates or something. I say sonic can win that.

Same with marth. He doesn't need to attack them physically he just powers up flies them to space and leaves them.... Marth will die in space.

 

[RelaxAlax]

Sealing huh? As far as Ganondorf goes sure he is sealed away whatever. Would escorting him into space and leaving him there work as winning? He has no means of returning until he reincarnates or something. I say sonic can win that.

See that's a complex we know nothing about. I assume if space he couldn't do anything. But canon doesn't say what happens if he does go into space. Presumably, he would float unrendered to do anything. But he can summon force fields. And in Twilight Princess he can teleport .... it's a touch matter for sure.

 

[kataridragon]

Ok I'm still waiting for my marth in space situation to be disputed. Also now that I look into the chaos emeralds more they can be used to manipulate time. Shadow uses them for just such a purpose. Chaos control seals time. They also can be used for energy blasts. See sonic adventure 2 battle 2 player.

 

[Muster]

Ok I'm still waiting for my marth in space situation to be disputed. Also now that I look into the chaos emeralds more they can be used to manipulate time. Shadow uses them for just such a purpose. Chaos control seals time. They also can be used for energy blasts. See sonic adventure 2 battle 2 player.

I edited my second post, you've missed it a bunch. Marth can also heal himself completely with the Falchion, so effects of space won't put him under.

 

[RODO]

I edited my second post, you've missed it a bunch. Marth can also heal himself completely with the Falchion, so effects of space won't put him under.

But is healing your wounds the same as not being able to breathe?

 

[Muster]

But is healing your wounds the same as not being able to breathe?

I'd imagine it as injury from oxygen deprivation/vacuum get healed. I already said why he wouldn't be able to be flown to space in the first place.

 

[kataridragon]

But is healing your wounds the same as not being able to breathe?

But is healing your wounds the same as not being able to breathe?

I agree. My point is he is in space and can't do anything. Even if by some crazy scenario he is still living in space, in the deep ocean floor, or submerged deep in a volcano is he even gonna matter to whatever dispute they had to begin with?

One more thing about the chaos emeralds they do allow teleportation.

So chaos emeralds can:
Bestow TOD, invulnerability, flight, and super form within a ring limit. They also have teleportation, time manipulation (time stop), and energy blast capabilities.

I'd imagine it as injury from oxygen deprivation/vacuum get healed. I already said why he wouldn't be able to be flown to space in the first place.

Why can't an invulnerable super being grab marth and take him wherever? Please explain. All I got was heal whatever.

Also does healing really beat out breathing and eating. How much can marth really take? What stops sonic from just ripping the falchion out of his hands and obliterate him? I feel like your just grasping at straws.

 

[Muster]

I agree. My point is he is in space and can't do anything. Even if by some crazy scenario he is still living in space, in the deep ocean floor, or submerged deep in a volcano is he even gonna matter to whatever dispute they had to begin with?

One more thing about the chaos emeralds they do allow teleportation.

So chaos emeralds can:
Bestow TOD, invulnerability, flight, and super form within a ring limit. They also have teleportation, time manipulation (time stop), and energy blast capabilities.

That doesn't exactly make Sonic stronger if all he does is leave Marth in a volcano, Does it?

Marth's falchion completely negates all actions that can do damage , Like you said, Sonic has the TOD so he can't touch Marth.
heck, it's listed as SEALING those actions, so if sonic moving and touching is an action as super sonic, then the magic of the Falchion will render him immobile during his super sonic form.

 

[kataridragon]

Why can't an invulnerable super being grab marth and take him wherever? Please explain. All I got was heal whatever.

That doesn't exactly make Sonic stronger if all he does is leave Marth in a volcano, Does it?

Marth's falchion completely negates all actions that can do damage, Like you said, Sonic has the TOD so he can't touch Marth

Sonic grabs falchion and takes it.... No damage done. I think your making falchions power out to be something it's not. So sonic can't punch him. I'm betting he can be moved. So sonics TOD does no damage. Who cares marth is permanently trapped in a volcano.

*looks up falchions powers*

 

[Muster]

Sonic grabs falchion and takes it.... No damage done. I think your making falchions power out to be something it's not. So sonic can't punch him. I'm betting he can be moved. So sonics TOD does no damage. Who cares marth is permanently trapped in a volcano.

*looks up falchions powers*

The falchion SEALS all direct damage dealing attacks, meaning the enemy cannot counter whatsoever. Sonic's TOD counts as a direct attack, so it is sealed. Guess what happens when your ability to touch the enemy is sealed with magic?

 

[deebeethedeity]

Sealing huh? As far as Ganondorf goes sure he is sealed away whatever. Would escorting him into space and leaving him there work as winning? He has no means of returning until he reincarnates or something. I say sonic can win that.

Cant ganondorf fly?

And even though kirby took on planet destroyers I dont really see him as any stronger than mario.

 

[RODO]

Cant ganondorf fly?

And even though kirby took on planet destroyers I dont really see him as any stronger than mario.

And just because you can beat someone doesn't necessarily mean you are stronger than them.

 

[Muster]

And just because you can beat someone doesn't necessarily mean you are stronger than them.

This.
I'm sure Marth can beat sonic in an arm wrestle. (in the case of physical strength ganondorf/bowser are probably the top spots, like deebee listed)

edit: It's late, and i'm going to bed, don't try an initiate further conversation. thank you and good night.

 

[kataridragon]

The falchion SEALS all direct damage dealing attacks, meaning the enemy cannot counter whatsoever. Sonic's TOD counts as a direct attack, so it is sealed. Guess what happens when your ability to touch the enemy is sealed with magic?

Your thinking into it to much. He doesn't have a barrier. Also he could just take the sword. Also falchion heals slightly. It's not gonna save him from not breathing. I actually couldn't find any evidence that the falchion seals magic damage.

The scenario in my mind plays out in two ways:
Sonic takes sword. The end.
Sonic grabs marth and teleports him to space. With or without supersonic. He doesn't need supersonic to teleport with a chaos emerald he can stop time to accomplish this even though he is way faster than marth.

Healing does not equal invincible.

And just because you can beat someone doesn't necessarily mean you are stronger than them.

Ruining my fun...

 

[Muster]

Your thinking into it to much. He doesn't have a barrier. Also he could just take the sword. Also falchion heals slightly. It's not gonna save him from not breathing. I actually couldn't find any evidence that the falchion seals magic damage.

The scenario in my mind plays out in two ways:
Sonic takes sword. The end.
Sonic grabs marth and teleports him to space. With or without supersonic. He doesn't need supersonic to teleport with a chaos emerald he can stop time to accomplish this even though he is way faster than marth.

Healing does not equal invincible.

The FIRST description of Falchion's effects has what i've been mentioning. Marth is based off of his appearance in his first game, where the falchion heals completely and seals all non dragon attacks. Sonic can't just take the blade, either, nobody has ever been disarmed holding the Falchion. If sonic apparently has access to all of the chaos emeralds and rings to become super sonic, then Marth gets access to a warp staff (which he does use to enter battle in brawl)
It's late and i'm going to bed, so don't bother waiting for a reply for a while.

 

[kataridragon]

Well. What's marth gonna do then? So far I've got several plans lined up for sonic to take advantage of Marths defects. Falchions can be taken, marth stole chroms at some point apparently. So how is marth gonna hold on to (if unsheathed) sword being pulled by a magically enhanced being flying towards wherever "deathstination"?

I'm still not sold on the concept of healing = no need to breath.

Edit: Sonic can just take marth to a strong dragon.... Or bring many dragons to marth..... In space. Lol

Bahamut Zero anyone?

 

[RODO]

Ruining my fun...

Not on purpose I assure you lol

 

[JediLink]

As per RODO's suggestion I'm going to do writeups for some character's I'm more familiar with.

Mega Man

• Mega Man is a robot, if you didn't know.
  
• He is a walking arsenal. He has a huge variety of weapons at his disposal, including but not limited to blade weapons, explosives, all kinds of elemental weapons, miniature black holes, and bubbles.
  
• He can temporarily stop time, but he can't actually attack while time is stopped.
• He copies the powers of any major foe he defeats. He even copied Onslaught's Magnetic Shockwave in MvC1.
  
• Although he is very powerful, he's not very sturdy. A solid falcon punch or a couple of magic sword swings would be enough to kill him.
  
• One of his main weaknesses is his mobility. He's kind of slow and clunky and would easily be outmaneuvered by many characters.
  
• However, his limited mobility is ameliorated by his robot dog, Rush. Rush can transform into a whole bunch of different vehicles, most notably the Rush Jet, which Mega Man rides like a jet board.
  
• As well as Mega Man absorbing his enemies' powers, Dr Light can also build specific weapons for him if needed.

Sonic

• His main strength is his mobility. He's extremely fast and agile, and would be very hard to hit.
• That said, though, if he did take a hit he probably would go down pretty easily (rings aside).
  
• He's not that strong on his own, but the kinetic energy of his attacks would be massively amplified if he's going very fast (like in a homing attack). He can get in quickly, knock you over, and get out before you have a chance to react.
  
• If he has one or more chaos emeralds, he can use chaos control to teleport or slow down time.
  
• If he has all seven, he can turn into Super Sonic. Super Sonic is broken as ****. Basically invincible and near lightspeed flight. His main method of attack is ramming into things really fast, and it's pretty darn effective. In this form, he's beaten all kinds of gods, demons, ultimate life forms, etc.

Samus
(Note: Samus is her Super Metroid/Other M incarnation, so I'm not going to count stuff like the PED suit or the annihilator beam which she clearly doesn't have anymore.)

• Like Mega Man, she's a walking arsenal. She has various types of beams as well some extremely powerful missiles. Arguably her most destructive weapon is the power bomb, which would instantly evaporate any regular mortal in a 10 metre radius or so.
  
• Screw attack ***** everything. Like really, it kills every enemy in one hit. It's usually one of the last upgrades you get because it's just so OP. Doesn't work on bosses and a couple of unique enemies, though.
• She also can use the shinespark, which is a special ability that rockets her extremely fast in one direction until she hits something. She needs a rather long run-up before she can use it, though. While shinesparking, she's totally invincible and does hella damage to enemies. Very effective on bosses too.
  
• Some of her other miscellaneous powers are the grapple beam, the X-ray and thermal visors, and the morph ball. She's pretty damn versatile.
  
• Her mobility is easily up there alongside Sonic. She can run extremely fast (especially with the speed booster), jump very high and far, and dodge attacks like a pro.
  
• With her Varia suit on, she has insanely high defense and can withstand all sorts of environmental hazards like lava and acid.
• Even without her power suit, she's still superhuman from her physical augmentations and intense warrior training. She's basically like a Spartan from Halo.

 

[josh bones]

Raykz, whose day is it?

 

[Muster]

Well. What's marth gonna do then? So far I've got several plans lined up for sonic to take advantage of Marths defects. Falchions can be taken, marth stole chroms at some point apparently. So how is marth gonna hold on to (if unsheathed) sword being pulled by a magically enhanced being flying towards wherever "deathstination"?

I'm still not sold on the concept of healing = no need to breath.

Edit: Sonic can just take marth to a strong dragon.... Or bring many dragons to marth..... In space. Lol

Bahamut Zero anyone?

No Falchion was ever stolen, Chrom and Lucina own the same weapon from different timelines.

Healing the damage from no breath= no need for breath

Because sonic TOTALLY knows that dragons are the only thing that could hurt Marth, and if you didn't notice, the Falchion is actually MORE effective against dragons.The Falchion seals all damage dealing attacks, like i've said before. If sonic's touch is deadly in Super form, then his ability to touch will be sealed.

Sonic isn't the kind of hedgehog to do any of those things, regardless. Have you ever seen him just chaos control eggman into space and kill him? have you ever seen him transform when fighting some random enemy and drag them into space? It's like saying Knuckles would win a fight by hugging it out or that Cream would use Chao to eviscerate her opponent, you're completely ignoring the personality and mindset of the character.

 

[pitthekit]

Of course, he just mashes the the circle button to regain his health. Then he proceeds to tranq Pikachu and wring its neck. Do you even MGS, bro?

Wait a sec metal gear solid 3! Rubber is your best friend in this m/u

 

[Superyoshiom]

BTW, are we going to let Mewtwo use his Mega Stone if Sonic gets the Chaos Emeralds?

 

[JediLink]

Here's another one:

Snake

• He was genetically engineered to be a perfect soldier, and is very strong in both mind and body. That said, he's still very much human.
• He has a large arsenal of offensive weapons like guns, grenades, missile launchers, etc. and also many more tactical things like chaff grenades, flashbangs and tranquilizer guns.
  
• He's a master of stealth.
• He's endured very high-voltage electricity in the past, so he could totally own Pikachu no worries.
• He took on an armoured helicopter and a giant bipedal tank (both piloted by his crazy brother) AND WON.

 

[PadWarrior]

Mega Man can freeze time and attack Pharoah Man. So yes he can freeze time and attack.

 

[RelaxAlax]

I'll do a couple of descriptions myself later today. I'll beef up Sonic because JediLink didn't make him OP enough

 

[Reader]

If the Miis are represented, they are the strongest characters. You may ask why, but i think it's obvious. Since Miis represent the gamers and nintendo fanbase and without fanbase or gamers Nintendo would go bankrupt, they are the living force of Nintendo. And by the way, i doubt that any other smash character could survive in the Miiverse.

But if we think only of characters accomplishments or special abilities, and not what they truly represent, Miis would be the weakest.

 

[kataridragon]

So there is no instance of someone disarming marth but it should be possible. Just because there is no evidence of it happening doesn't mean it can't. The swords aren't attached to the fire emblem characters. Any opponent who has the potential to effectively disarm marth can overcome him.

Also I'm pretty sure I read that at some point marth steals chroms falchion. I swear. Awakening??

But you do have a point in sonic probably not knowing about the dragons.

I imagine sonic would try an attack that wouldn't hurt marth. Then Sonic would chill for a sec thinking as marth would proclaim something about his bloodline and chosen status and blurt out how the falchion is the source of power. Sonic gets the hint and takes the blade. Just because no one has taken it doesn't mean it can't be done. It's a magical weapon that isn't bound to the charcater with any magic.

 

[Muster]

So there is no instance of someone disarming marth but it should be possible. Just because there is no evidence of it happening doesn't mean it can't. The swords aren't attached to the fire emblem characters. Any opponent who has the potential to effectively disarm marth can overcome him.

The Falchion is an enchanted blade, and pretty much the only chance Medeus had of winning against Marth was disarming him of the only weapon that could harm him. He had an entire army and couldn't do that. Like i said before, the Falchion seals actions that could do harm to the user including pretty much every action sonic can do to effectively disarm Marth, so unless Sonic asks for it politely and Marth obliges, he won't even be able to try to disarm him. The Match is a stalemate, because Sonic can avoid Marth, but Sonic can't harm marth. 50/50 matchup wise.

No, nobody ever steals Chrom's Falchion, "Marth" In Awakening is [collapse=spoilers] actually Lucina, Chrom's daughter from a different timeline with it's own Falchion. [/collapse] Only one with divine blood can wield the Falchion in battle, so sonic couldn't use it to harm Marth if he tried, (sonic and the black knight style) and Marth can still bring Mystletainn or a Sonic blade and keep the Falchion sheathed, so he still has a powerful weapon and the invincibility from the Falchion. (Mystletainn is also a legendary blade, and The sonic blade is magic and basically shoots tornadoes)

 

[kataridragon]

The Falchion is an enchanted blade, and pretty much the only chance Medeus had of winning against Marth was disarming him of the only weapon that could harm him. He had an entire army and couldn't do that. Like i said before, the Falchion seals actions that could do harm to the user including pretty much every action sonic can do to effectively disarm Marth, so unless Sonic asks for it politely and Marth obliges, he won't even be able to try to disarm him. The Match is a stalemate, because Sonic can avoid Marth, but Sonic can't harm marth. 50/50 matchup wise.

No, nobody ever steals Chrom's Falchion, "Marth" In Awakening is [collapse=spoilers] actually Lucina, Chrom's daughter from a different timeline with it's own Falchion. [/collapse] Only one with divine blood can wield the Falchion in battle, so sonic couldn't use it to harm Marth if he tried, (sonic and the black knight style) and Marth can still bring Mystletainn or a Sonic blade and keep the Falchion sheathed, so he still has a powerful weapon and the invincibility from the Falchion. (Mystletainn is also a legendary blade, and The sonic blade is magic and basically shoots tornadoes)

I will take that 50/50 and proclaim that sonic vs marth is stalemate.

My point in this whole argument is that sonic is way more formidable as an opponent than it may seem. He has a lot of very strong abilities on his side. Sorry you faced the brunt of it all muster.

No hate. All love!

Edit: Thanks for the like! The power of friendship defeats all foes! (Corny)

 

[Muster]

I will take that 50/50 and proclaim that sonic vs marth is stalemate.

My point in this whole argument is that sonic is way more formidable as an opponent than it may seem. He has a lot of very strong abilities on his side. Sorry you faced the brunt of it all muster.

No hate. All love!

Good, agreements are nice.

I do know that sanic is very formidable, the guy could annihilate half the cast by running rolling into them without a single chaos emerald or ring. Not to mention he can wield a sword like a champ and can run around in space. He definitely has a good place among other OP characters in the A tier.