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It's still not necessarily Mach 2, but whatever.
I literally just saw that, lol. Kinda fitting, given what happens when you get eaten in the Nintendo Land minigame...
It takes place wherever there's a trail of Rings, whether it be close to the ground or high in the air.
Since when do the police have access to that level of firepower (that‘s national guard/proper military grade equipment or for the police in the U.S.)?
I’m not sure that she is in excess of Mach 1 in gameplay but she is at the very top of the list regardless.
:::::: Kirby Dragons:::: Dryn: Dryn:::: Kirby Dragons::: Dryn: Dryn: Dryn: Dryn: Dryn/Kirby Dragons: Kirby Dragons:: Reckless Godwin 2.0/::: Kirby Dragons: Kirby Dragons: Kirby Dragons:::::::::: Kirby Dragons:: Kirby Dragons::/:::/:: Reckless Godwin 2.0:::::: Munomario777:: Kirby Dragons: Kirby Dragons: Kirby Dragons
Oh yeah, I forgot that Pokemon tranor or can only use one Pokemon at a time. Also Mewtwo is level 100 while red's Pokemon are in the 70s. And no, u did not intend for the first letter of my username to be in lowercase.@monzer You don’t add their stat totals together and compare them to Mewtwo, you run each battle individually to get the result. Mewtwo could KO the Pokemon Trainer immediately and then proceed to OHKO each Pokemon in turn.
P.S. Did you mean to leave the 1st letter of your name in lowercase?
That depends on how far it is. In a location where two people are ten miles apart, that'd require one to react faster than 160.7 milliseconds. As one moves closer, the reaction time needs to be in the microsecond range.
"Supersonic" is Mach 1.2 to Mach 4.9. Mach 1 is the speed of sound, not supersonic. In-game, it doesn't look that way.
I'm not sure. In Metroid: Zero Mission, Samus' ship is shot down with what looks like is supposed to be a laser. It could possibly be a particle beam. Makes more sense for smashing through the ship. The ship crashes onto Zebes where it is later presumably rebuilt into the one in Metroid Prime. In Metroid Prime 2: Echoes, a lightning bolt possibly produced by dark energy hits Samus' ship where she ends up spiraling downward and smashes through some rocky area.
She can, but she also has an ability called "concentration" where she can restore missiles and if in critical damage, can restore up 99 energy with an addition of 3 energy tanks. She also has 4 reserve tanks that activate automatically, though they can be switched to manual.
I suppose.
Munomario777
These abilities were introduced before Sonic learned the boost, which allows him to travel at FTL speeds. Thus, for a long time, they were the only way he could get close to light speeds, so they were named appropriately.@
1. Light shoes, light speed dash shoes, light chip, and ancient light are unnecessary if Sonic already travels faster than light. You said they serve other functions, the names of these abilities could have been given something else to match the specific ability. The main focus is running at light speed.
I don't see how being exclusive to one game means that we should disregard it. As far as being in midair, the Light a Speed Dash travels as fast in midair as if does along the ground.
There's also the dialogue from Sonic Colors that I brought up earlier.
This doesn't occur because of gameplay. The game would simply be unplayable at those speeds. Of course, the same thing applies to other similar cases, like the Speed Booster.
I don't follow. They want to make the description to-the-point, and that leads to them choosing 396 SPD specifically, or...?
A reasonable explanation, but only an ad hoc.
It's kind of the same reason why I disregarded the "4.8 trillion teratons" for Metroid, since Aether and Dark Aether don't show their mass or diameter, and they fortunately stopped with the "cycles".
I may have not seen it. Will you please provide?
The SPD occurs during game play as well, so . . . The speed booster is not so much an issue because it doesn't cover as great as a distance as one would traveling light speed. I already know from my testing that you can get different distances depending on if you make Samus fly upward assuming 411.6 m/s, and then falling while assuming 9.81 m/s. Like I said, though, the light speed dash is brief, so it'd make more sense for it to not last as long and therefore explain the lower SPD.
Because of the light speed dash's brevity, the SPD reads it at a lower speed. If it had an infinite duration like Sonic's usual running speed, it'd be higher.
I tend to take a palette approach, which looks like this.
Fair enough.
"4.8 trillion teratons" is an obvious typo; it's very close to "4.8 billion teratons", and that's similar to earth's mass. 1200 SPD is a raw measurement, so it can't be a typo, since it was never actually typed out.
Sure thing. Basically, after Sonic completes a time trial mission with a good ranking (which most likely involves using the boost), E-123 Omega (Robotnik's most advanced robot) analyzes Sonic's performance and finds that he is approaching light speed. Sonic then replies that light speed is no challenge.
Yes, and we don't actually see/control the speed because that would simply be impossible.
How does lasting for a shorter time lead to the Light Speed Dash being read as slower?
It wasn't so obvious, as the idea of Samus withstand 960 g was common among places like Killer Movies, Naruto Forums, and FactPile. True, there is the difference in both, but as I said before, SPD doesn't tell us anything. I don't know how SPD is supposed to be measured. If we take 1,200 SPD to mean 1,200 km/h, then it's only reaching 0.00011118803% the speed of light.
Well, it's no challenge if Sonic is already using light speed enhancements.
Of course, but there's nothing to prevent one's
Its duration is so miniscule that if the SPD is supposed to be tracking speed, it might be doing so on the basis of distance and time, and if the distance is only 3 meters (an example) in 10.01 nanoseconds, then Sonic would be running 299,792,458 m/s.
Just because a lot of people have this misconception doesn't mean that we can't correct the blatant typo.
As I said earlier, "SPD" isn't meant to equal any real life measurement. We do, however, have our reference point in the Light Speed Dash. 396 SPD = c. Using a bit of math (which I really hope is correct, haha), we find out that 1 SPD = 757051.662 m/s.
Which Sonic doesn't possess in this game.
I'm sorry?
Okay, your point?
And don't you think 396 SPD is also one? Of course you don't. It's promoted by someone who posted it in the Trivia at the Sonic Wikia without any corroborating evidence and has continued on other sites since.
Yeah, let's consider that real quick. 1 SPD is 757,051.66 m/s if we work with that idea. That's approximately 0.8 times the escape velocity from the Milky Way. If we observe this, Sonic is just walking. Using the timer and the visuals disproves this.
Sonic has light speed dash in Sonic Unleashed and Sonic Heroes.
I forgot to continue my train of thought. I tend to move from one point to another and at times forget to go back. It gives me time to focus on what I think is simpler to address. Anyway, what I was saying was that the developers could have developed the game in a way to demonstrate greater speeds by slowing down everything else around Sonic, along with a slowed timer.
That's why 396 SPD is the way it is.
If you'd like to find evidence of the Light Speed Dash having a different SPD measurement, then go right ahead.
It's rounded up to 1 SPD because there's no decimal point present on the counter. .0000000000000001 SPD wouldn't quite fit on the four-digit speedometer.
And not Sonic Colors, where the dialogue is found.
Ah, I see. That would just make things confusing. The timer is part of the HUD, so naturally it would correlate with real life time, and there would be no challenge in slowed down obstacles.
@Dryn The lightning bolts come from above (GBA Fire Emblems) or from above and below (FE10 Wii/how lightning operates in real life). Does that change anything?
@
Koopaul
Bowser may be stronger but Mario is faster, more skillful and better equipped.
Munomario777
Your making too many assumptions! The SPD stat is useless because we can’t calculate it with real world units, and are we supposed to trust Sonic the speed junkie with the Light Speed Dash going at light speed? I could say a toddler is approaching light speed when they go from walking to running. You have to remember that Sonic's speed means nothing against Badniks with Steel shields. I use apparent speeds from gameplay and cutscenes because they are somewhat quantifiable.
I'd imagine so.
More like Bowser always leaves a convenient "Kill Bowser" switch in his castles.@
We can calculate it with real world units; it has a connection to real world speeds thanks to the Light Speed Dash. Sonic isn't the one who stated the Light Speed Dash's speed; Tikal (was trapped inside of the Master Emerald for a while, which has great wisdom etc) and Chip (Light Gaia, basically a sort of deity in a sense) stated this, as well as Omochao, which might as well be the game telling you something.@
Could you say that light speed was "no challenge" for said toddler?
The boost can go through the shields.
I use lore because it's not hampered by gameplay/hardware restrictions.
This quote is all that matters because it's rather telling. Sonic Colors was made in 2010. Sonic Unleashed was made in 2008.
According to Wikipedia the cumulonimbus cloud can have an altitude of 6,500 – 60,000 meters. A typical lightning bolt travels 100,177.78 m/s. The time it would take to cover 6,500 m. would be 65 milliseconds. At 60,000 m., 599 milliseconds. Lightning from the ground is more powerful and deadlier. There's no way anyone could dodge that. There's no way anyone could dodge any kind of lightning because it's unpredictable in the first place. Second, no one has the reaction time to dodge lightning covering 6,500 m. In order to dodge it, one would need to be able to predict, sense, or otherwise have a low reaction time. (That's a kind of feat you want to be low, not high.)
Possibly Sonic.
Yes, and I'm saying that the Light Speed Dash is not in Colors, so Omega can't be referring to that. It is in the Wii version, but only when using the Green Hover ability, and since that's not in the DS version (where the Onega dialogue is found), that can't be it either.
The boost in Colors and the boost in Unleashed are actually rather different; the one in Unleashed comes from Ring energy, whereas the Colors version uses White Wisps. It's likely that the White Wisps don't give Sonic as much power as Ring energy, so he can't quite reach light speed. There was a deleted voice clip about Hyper-Go-On energy (the energy that Wisps produce) being more powerful than even Chaos Emerald energy, but it's non-canon by virtue of it being cut from the game.
It wouldn't mean much on its own, but when combined with the other evidence, it only further supports said evidence. Plus, I'd expect Sonic to be more knowledgeable about his own speed than anyone else.
I thought he said it in Sonic Heroes, but learning this was said in Sonic Colors is a game changer.
Why should I care about the boost in Unleashed when it's not light speed dash? It's evident that E-123 Omega mentioned that Sonic's speed was 130% higher. Why would that matter if this ring energy you speak of was more powerful? If anything, it's possible the white wisps grant Sonic greater boosting ability with their hyper-go-on, which, according to Tails, is "a really powerful energy source". Or maybe Sonic just naturally is capable of increasing his speed as he trains and develops new abilities. That alone would make Sonic especially unique, since he'd be relying on his own power.
I wouldn't expect Sonic to be more knowledgeable about his speed, just because he can attain high speeds. In order to know, tests would need to be done, as we can see in Sonic Colors.
Onega wasn't present in Unleashed, so he wouldn't witness the FTL speeds recorded in that game. The "previous entry" must, then, be from a different game. Onega was present in Sonic 2006, but those events were retconned. He was in Shadow, but I'm not sure if the two ever met there. We then go back to Omega's original appearance, in Sonic Heroes. Sonic did have the Light Speed Dash in that game, but I don't think Omega ever witnessed him using it. Teams usually only met in boss battles between teams in that game, whereas the Light Speed Dash was mainly used in action stages. There's the Light Speed Attack being part of the Team Blast, but I'm not sure if Team Blasts are used in those boss battles. So Omega apparently hasn't seen Sonic's FTL speeds before, which would explain 130% more than his previous entry still being below light speed, as well as his confusion about the notion of Sonic travelling at light speed.
And such tests are performed in Unleashed, via the checkpoints.
Right.
Wait, did Samus attack Meta Ridley's mouth/chest in the video you posted.
Yep.
Like this.
You can see it in the first video I posted.
There's a lot of launching in the Kirby series.
Right, though we don't see all of Popstar, so there could still be some damage somewhere. Even then, Kirby can generally survive attacks from planetary threats, so that's another durability feat.
Interesting.
See above.
They can still be different techniques.
Maybe about a yard.
You can weaken the same swing to stop the ball from launching.
He says so.
Negate ≠ block.
They said it could happen.
Why?
Because the effect actually hits the suit of armor.
How is it an agreement? I doubt a Pokemon would agree to let their opponent attack before them. If Sonic leaves the area where Mewtwo is, he can't really attack.
Mewtwo uses Disable to stop Sonic from teleporting, and then does it again.
No.
See above.
Wait, so their equipment is the same in function?
Yes.
If the stomach is that big, it means there isn't room for anything else.
Which means he'd have to hit Kirby several times to actually do anything.
It's not.
Yes.
Kirby can be flattened without dying. Trying to squash him won't work.
They're a closer comparison than burning logs.
You haven't given any valid evidence, however.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obAKjKhCYAM
Yeah. That's what we were talking about.
A) Kirby can walk away while in Stone form, or the Animal Statues ability will let him jump over it.
How does that mean Kirby can't hit him?
Actually, the hat gives a transformation.
The ability changes. Also, the same applies for Reveal Glass transformations.
Then the power-ups are comparable to both Reveal Glass and Mega Stones.
No. The rapidly spinning one can destroy more, so it has more force.
Whatever.
Restating your opinion gets you nowhere.
Actually, I've disproved that using logic.
How is this relevant to anything? I didn't ssay bonus cutscenes were non-canon, I said they didn't progress the story of the game.
While spinning the baton quickly, he changes directions at 0:32.
Prevent Sonic from getting close without getting sucked in.
Prove it.
This isn't the start of the match.
Point.
It used a scanner, which doesn't have a personality.
Same thing applies.
I seriously doubt it would take 25 Pikmin to stop one bullet.
Since when do they have rockets?
No.
Olimar isn't deceptive.
Yes, and then he destroys those.
Denying that Louie becoming a king when he was always just a second wheel isn't insane.
Collecting treasures, I believe.
That would prove that pain = damage.
Leading to what symptom?
What is?
Other symptoms don't occur either.
If they were energy/liquid, they'd still go through.
Neither are Star Bits.
It is just a power she doesn't have.
I was saying it doesn't work diagonally.
The blacks holes have the same amount of power.
There is no distortion in front of the black hole.
He has been seen escaping black holes, and a Mario black hole is a black hole.
But there aren't.
Not when rocketing off.
The Star Bits would deflect each other.
Can I see a video?
Through what methods?
I didn't see that happen.
But he uses Spin Dash for the tornado.
Feralness.
But he isn't his body.
So a lowered voice made him howl randomly when he wasn't trying to communicate?
Wait, what?
He doesn't have the ability.
Kirby is Jet Kirby. Also, Samus has to board the Gunship, so Kirby could attack her/the ship in the meantime.
That is with Samus' input.
But not its force.
According to the website, it would melt the guard, but Kirby could create a new one.
Not really.
Olimar sees the observation.
Point?
Interesting thought.
Why are either of these questions relevant?
Trick Room can't negate priority, so Vantage is superior.@Kirby Dragons There is one flaw with Trick Room, it has the lowest priority in the game. I can still see it succeeding thanks to Sonic’s ego though. How would this work against Ike, Robin and Lucina’s vantage http://fireemblem.wikia.com/wiki/Vantage?
Yep.[/quote]
That's not nearly as far as the anime.
Again, weaker than the anime.
Yes, a lot of weak, short launching.
We see all of the planet that's actually hit by the explosion. "Planetary threats" don't mean anything. How much force are said threats attacking Kirby with?
So Kirby gets electrocuted and paralyzed, and Samus follows up with a Power Bomb.
When is this stated?
I didn't see that in the videos.
And Kirby doesn't show any signs of "weakening" his attacks. The velocity-based ones are a good example. The striking force of these comes from Kirby's speed and mass. He's not moving more slowly, and I doubt that he's reducing his mass. So the force is the same, yet only Marx launches that far.
That isn't proof.
Negate means to nullify something, or make it ineffective. That's also what blocking means in this context.
Is this proven?
I could be smacked with a laser emitter that could destroy the earth and survive, but that doesn't mean that I could survive something that can destroy a planet.
And it doesn't "happen to" the suit of armor, as you put it.
Pokemon do wait their turn, though; the whole battle system is turn-based. Sonic could exit the area, freeze time, use Chaos Control to bring Mewtwo out of the room (Chaos Control can do this), and then fight outside of the AOE.
Disable can be blocked. Even still, Sonic could simply freeze time instead.
It can be blocked.
So Marx is the outlier.
Some of it is, but that doesn't mean that all of it is.
I don't see Kirby flying to negate any major horizontal movement. He stops when he lands on the platform, but that's due to the friction.
If his stomach is that big, it shouldn't fit in there to begin with. It seems to be more of a portal. What's odd about this is the fact that Kirby can actually enter that area himself.
I don't see how Sonic not being able to be in the area of a whole city at once means that he'd have to hit Kirby multiple times. A city is big, so Sonic has to traverse all of it. Kirby is small, so Sonic can take care of him all at once.
The space behind the explosion is dark, so the explosion appears dark when it really isn't. Notice that this is only around the edges, where the darkness and lightness in the image are next to each other.
And the fireballs are surrounding him.
Can he survive being crushed by things as massive as Giga Bowser?
Burning logs are fire. Star Spits are stars.
I have. Kirby cannot move after falling off of his Warp Star. The evidence is in the games.
Do we see him charging prior to this?
So, what about someone using a telescope to observe the enemy proves that said enemy is in outer space?
Mario is faster than that.
The Gold Flower still takes effect.
You said that Mario switching power-ups gives Kirby an opening to use Stone. I pointed out that since it's instantaneous, Kirby would have no such window before Mario used a Mega Mushroom, Starman, etc.
It's literally Mario with a different hat on. The in-game animation actually shows him putting it on (given you don't skip it by using the item in midair).
He has a drill item.
He can wake up instantly, as seen in his idle animations in games like Mario 64.
Starman, etc, or just escaping Kirby's tiny and rather weak grab.
So do Mario's. Reveal Glass has less similarities here.
And there are more Mega Stones than Reveal Glasses. Reveal Glass is the rare case, so we use the more common case, that being Mega Stones.
Right, but it cannot destroy cardboard.
How so? Either way, we agreed that at most, it's a deity attack.
I don't see how this is an opinion. So in your opinion, if I turned into a jar containing pickles (and said pickles were absent beforehand), I didn't also morph into the pickles?
Which Pokemon often throws out the window.
If they're not non-canon, then why was this matter even brought up?
He changes which hand he's swinging with, but the baton itself is still spinning counterclockwise.
Sonic could come from below the Warp Star. Inhale simply cannot cover all angles at once.
See the Shadow the Hedgehog opening clip I provided earlier, showing Chaos Control's speed.
Sonic would likely boost at the start of the match.
It's stated to move at light speed.
You said that since the battery is mentioned, the love must come from the battery. The battery isn't present or mentioned in Pikmin 1, yet Olimar expresses love. The love is not coming from the battery.
The ship as a whole has a personality. I could see something with my eyes, which lack a personality, but I still have a personality.
How does one lose stress from undergoing recovery meant for getting rid of a concussion?
I seriously doubt that plants could stop a bullet at all, at least on that small of a scale.
Since they became a decent military force.
I'm sorry?
He's the one approving the deceptive sales pitches.
Does he always destroy all of the monsters in the area before acquiring the knife?
Louie calls himself the "king of bugs". The ship backs this theory up. Olimar is the only disbeliever here, and he's wrong.
No, he spends them aboard the ship.
All apples are fruits, but not all fruits are apples. My leg could have growing pains, but I'm not actually damaged.
Irresponsibility.
Throwing tiny plant people at gigantic beasts. Dangerous for the Pikmin, anyway.
There's irresponsibility, faulty conclusion-making (or whatever you wanna call the king of bugs deal), etc.
They're held together. Everything technically has a tiny gap in between the molecules, but water droplets are bigger than those gaps, so they don't get through. This is just that principle on a larger scale.
I'm pretty sure bits of stars aren't energy for talking stars that will one day become full stars.
I said:
There is no solid "diagonal" in space.
No, they don't. Mario black holes have a larger AOE, and a more powerful pulling force.
Because that area is the actual black part.
Schwarz =/= Mario black hole, and both =/= IRL black holes.
There are a lot of galaxies containing them.
They can control where they go; they go away from the Observatory.
They don't in-game.
It's too fast to actually see it happen, of course. Destroying something requires interacting with it in some way.
If you're saying that the car can explode while time is frozen, then why can Sonic not move the sword while time is frozen?
Look again, then.
The Blue Tornado is created using speed, so the Boost would work fine. Still, Sonic could Boost and curl up into a ball at the same time if he needed to.
His body is feral. His personality is intact.
And?
Not exactly. I think it may have to do with natural wolf instinct. See, wolves howl for multiple reasons. Firstly, they might howl to defend their territory, or rally packs together. Sonic howls at the beginning of a night mission, which would make sense since he's defending "territory", in this case the earth, from Dark Gaia's monsters. Wolves also howl at sunset and sunrise, and this could also make sense since Sonic is howling at the start of the night mission. I'm not sure if he howls right when he transforms, but if so, this would explain it.
Sonic's drowning is due to lack of oxygen, since he prevents drowning by breathing in air bubbles for their oxygen.
He does have the ability to use Chaos Control.
Same thing applies.
If Kirby is busy attacking, Samus uses a Power Bomb.
She presses a button, and the ship does the rest of the work. After pressing the button, Samus would be able to do whatever she wants.
Its force hits the guard, and gets reflected back.
If it melts the guard, then the Power Bomb/other attack hits Kirby and he dies.
It's quick enough to handle quite a few fighters.
And we don't, so there is no proof. There's also no proof that Olimar observes this, or that it even happened to begin with.
The battery is not the source of Olimar's love.
So we can't assume that Kirby is enduring "infinite force", especially when he dies from finite force much more often.
We shouldn't assume that something like this can handle anything unless there's some sort of explanation for it doing so (i.e. storing the attack force in a magical, endless bottle and delivering it back, or gaining back a sliver of health after being "killed" by a fatal attack).
There's a difference between using items to enhance one's speed and being able to reach speeds on one's own. This looks like the case in Sonic Colors where light speed dash wasn't present. This makes me think that E-123 Omega's analysis of Sonic was based on his own speed, not on speed enhancements. Sonic doesn't travel FTL and relies on speed enhancements to reach light speed.
Prove it.
Yes. I will also let you know that there is a material known as cordite in that game, which requires multiple military-grade missiles to destroy, and yet, all it takes is a single super missile to destroy it. Meta Ridley takes quite a number of super missiles to defeat him, and even then, after he's knocked right off the Artifact Temple, which I've calculated to be 13 storeys (42.9 meters; 140.75 feet), he still survives as evinced in Metroid Prime 3: Corruption.
That was underwhelming.
I wish I had my Kirby game here. I've already seen this attack a number of times, but if that's hyper tornado, that's not impressive.
Then you can show me ones equivalent to that of Marx.
The Rings would count as an enhancement, I suppose. It makes sense that Sonic's natural speed would increase over time. Sonic's normal running probably doesn't exceed light speed, explaining Omega's comment, but Sonic's "no challenge" remark is likely referring to Unleashed's version of the boost.
Sonic goes through the checkpoints, and they display his speed.
I'm not sure about that. Can't Sonic run at top speed without the rings? They only time they act as enhancements is when Sonic is going into his super or hyper form. Sonic's response doesn't make sense in light of that because he's never gone faster than light. It makes more sense for Sonic to have used speed enhancements in the past, for Omega to tell Sonic that his natural speed will be able to exceed light speed, and for Sonic to give a conceited response. Until we have corroborated evidence, Sonic's top speed is hypersonic and with the light speed abilities, light speed.
Prove that he's aware of that.
The boost is fueled by Rings, and increases Sonic's speed.
He does in Unleashed.
We do have corroborated evidence. The checkpoints show Sonic's speed, and this is backed up by Sonic's statement.
He confidently states that he's capable of such speeds in the dialogue, which he wouldn't do if he hadn't tested his speed. I'd imagine that someone like Sonic, who's constantly pushing his limits, would go back to these checkpoints and find out his top speed. In fact, he might be the one that placed them there as a sort of speed trial. Or they just happened to be there.
I was pretty sure Sonic could run at his top speed without the rings.
This hasn't been proved. It's someone's assumption made popular among fans who really wish Sonic could run faster than the Flash. This is what we'd call circular reasoning.
That's not evidence. One is a game mechanic that has the SPD attached to it (which never shows up again in other games to support the 396 SPD), rather than simply being a check point like in previous games where Sonic returns, should he die. We cannot even use the check points since that's the very thing in question. You need to provide evidence outside of that, otherwise it's circular reasoning. Sonic's statement is just his personal opinion without any facts to support it.
Being confident also says nothing.
Actually, no, he can't. The boost allows Sonic to run faster than he does normally, and this is fueled by Rings; it even says "Ring Energy" on the meter.
I don't see how a speedometer isn't proof of speed.
Aside from the Star Posts being physically present, not only respawn points, etc, I have found some evidence that they are, indeed, canon. Let's go back to Sonic 2, on the Genesis. That game was the first to include Super Sonic, and to unlock him, you had to get the Chaos Emeralds from the Special Stages, which also nets you the good ending. In this game, the Special Stages are accessed by collecting fifty Rings and jumping into the circle of stars above a Star Post. So, the good ending relies on Star Posts. But how do we know that this is canon? Good endings aren't necessarily canon after all. Well, fast forward to Sonic 3. Here, in the opening cutscene, Sonic jumps off of the Tornado and turns into Super Sonic. Not only that, but a few seconds later, we actually see the Chaos Emeralds themselves! These couldn't be from Sonic 1, because A) that game only had six and B) they scattered at the end. Sonic CD had Time Stones rather than Chaos Emeralds, so that means that Sonic must have collected them in Sonic 2. Via the Star Posts. Which are, indeed, canon.
If he wasn't sure about his own speed, he wouldn't go about saying that he could exceed light speed.
I was focused solely on his normal speed, not so much his boost. If his boosts require ring energy, then I can see the 99,999 rings being depleted pretty quick.
The time and distance are contrary to Sonic's actual speed. Again, the developers could have slowed down the surroundings and time to give the illusion that Sonic is actually traveling faster than light and thereby illustrating faster-than-light speed for the player.
I wasn't denying the fact that these posts exist, only that the things attached to them are a game mechanic, hence the example of returning to that point if Sonic dies, just like if Mario dies or Donkey Kong dies.
You said he came off confident. From the wording, "That's small time. There's no challenge!", that's hubris. Hubris is excessive pride or self-confidence. Synonyms include conceit and arrogance.
That's not quite how it works. When Sonic collects Rings, it fills the boost meter, and that meter depletes when he boosts. His Ring count doesn't go down, and when Sonic is hit and drops Rings, those don't fill the meter. It seems that Sonic is absorbing the energy from the Rings and putting it into his boost meter, while still keeping the Rings. Worth noting is that Super Sonic's boost meter doesn't deplete at all, so he can boost all he wants.
Aren't time and distance the indicators of speed? Again, if everything was slowed down, there would be no challenge in avoiding the obstacles.
I agree that the actual respawning mechanic should be excluded, but I think we should keep the other mechanics of these objects, especially since those of the Star Post are tied into canon.
Or he's just remembering the times when he did go beyond light speed. It's not excessive self-confidence if he's done it before.
But as Super Sonic, he has a time limit, correct?
Yes.
Then that would include time.
This is an indefensible claim that relies on the premise in question. I could easily say Sonic said this simply because he has used light speed enhancements before. The conclusion doesn't follow. This is known as a non sequitur.
A time limit for remaining Super, yes. In this case, it's 9,999 seconds, or over two and a half hours.
So why would they differ?
Ah, I see. I guess they just didn't think about that. It would be a cool effect though. Something somewhat similar occurs in Sonic and the Secret Rings, via the "Time Break" ability; it slows down time, including Sonic, so you can react more quickly. As for Super Sonic, he has to be earned, and the Special Stages are often really challenging. When he's not earned via Special Stages, he's usually either not present at all or reserved for the final boss.
Hm?
The thing is, though, he sees light speed as slow by comparison, as shown by the first sentence. If Sonic had only gone at light speed (via the Light Speed Dash), then he wouldn't see light speed as slow. However, given that he has gone at FTL speeds before, it makes sense that light speed would seem slow when he's accompanied to these extreme speeds.
SPD doesn't coincide with time and distance, that's why.
If the check points keep track of speed, it requires keeping track of time.
Indeed he does, and rightly so. Anyone would know that FTL is what it means. If Sonic had run FTL, then he would have said he already can. He didn't. Omega says he'll eventually be able to at the rate he's going. He cannot run FTL. He never ran FTL. He can only gain light speed with speed enhancements. That's all.
Because gameplay (where said time and distance come from) doesn't correctly represent FTL travel.
Yes, and?
If Sonic has never run at FTL speeds, then why would he say that there's no challenge in "exceeding light speed"? Omega hasn't observed Sonic running at speeds exceeding the speed of light; he wasn't in Unleashed. Not only that, but as I said earlier, I don't believe he's ever witnessed the Light Speed Dash/Attack either. Omega's "previous entry" isn't accurate to Sonic's top speed at the time, so him saying that Sonic will exceed light speed is old news by this point. He did that back in 1998.
I've already addressed this.
SPD is not an indicator of anything.
Hubris.
That's a good time to let Omega know. It was a good time to let devs be clear on Sonic's speed.
So now you put doubt in Omega's statements when it goes against your opinion. Maybe we'll see Sonic exceed the speed of light in the future. Your argument isn't convincing. I also have a kitten sleeping in my lap, therefore, I win. Don't take that last bit seriously. There is a kitten sleeping in my lap, though.
If we're dismissing this because gameplay doesn't portray the speeds correctly, then we may as well disregard all other lore-based speed feats, such as, say, the Speed Booster.
It's an indicator of speed.
Or he's referencing his past FTL feats. If there was no other evidence besides the statement from Sonic, then I agree that it wouldn't mean much. However, when it lines up with the SPD measurements, I think that it does mean something.
Not really; he wasn't present.
I'm sure they had more important things to do in that game than slowing things 90% of the time (that game is, at points, literally "boost to win"). In fact, the heavy emphasis on boosting might be why they didn't slow things down. There are many "quick-step" sections where Sonic is running forwards and he has to move sideways to dodge things. If the obstacles were slowed down, the challenge would be greatly reduced.
I'm not doubting his statements. He's saying that, since his last measurement, Sonic has gotten about 130% faster, and that at this rate, light speed would be exceeded. Seems logical to me; Onega last saw Sonic in Sonic Heroes, and in Colors, he now has the boost. However, I'm just saying, since his last record of Sonic's speed is out of date, that the statement doesn't really mean much in terms of Sonic's top speed. I'm not doubting the statement; I'm doubting its relevancy.
I could see them revisiting the concept; perhaps integrating it more into the game, or expanding on it.
Haha. That made me chuckle.
But 396 SPD being light speed is not lore. It's an assumption. Your reliance on ad hoc hypotheses has made it not worth defending.
Not an accurate one based on distance and time.
It doesn't look like that's what he's doing. Again, that argument is a non sequitur for reasons explained previously.
I was referring to Colors.
That's not at all what I was saying. The developers could have had Omega say Sonic reached FTL, or Sonic could have told Omega that he can travel FTL.
Seems logical for Sonic to have spoke up. It's relevant because it goes against your interpretation of the SPD. Say the SPD was never in Unleashed. Your opinion would be different.
Lore says that the Light Speed Dash moves at the speed of light. The Light Speed Dash also equals 396 SPD. Therefore, we can conclude that 396 SPD is light speed, based on this.
I'd imagine it's either something akin to a radar gun, or perhaps the beam between the posts is being blocked by Sonic for a certain amount of time, and that's what's being used to determine the speed.
Hm?
Ah. Sonic isn't shown reaching FTL speeds in Colors, and he does tell Omega that he's capable of moving beyond light speed; he says it's "no challenge" for him.
Omega saying that Sonic could travel at FTL speeds wouldn't make much sense, since Omega hasn't witnessed this. Again, Sonic did inform Omega of this fact.
Yes, and he did.
Correct, because there wouldn't be evidence of Sonic going at FTL speeds. But there is, so that's my stance.
And it's never supported ever again. It's dubious.
It doesn't coincide with the timer and distance. We're back to square one.
You quoted yourself.
It would be expected for Sonic to reach FTL if he's capable, especially if Omega would cease his attempt to kill two of Robotnik's robots if he could acquire physical specification data.
No he didn't. He treated the prospect as insignificant and presumably found this as no challenge, since he's the fastest thing alive.
No he didn't, and if he did, he was pretty vague about it. It should have read like so.
I don't see how something only happening once means it's "dubious". Still, this occurs every time you use a Light Speed Dash through a pair of Star Posts.
The timer is a HUD element, and both are due to gameplay not correctly representing the high speeds.
Yes, and I'm wondering why you didn't place it in a quote in your post.
Sonic doesn't reach FTL speeds here because he's not using the boost from Unleashed. He's only using White Wisp energy.
He wouldn't know that it's not a challenge unless he had attempted it before and succeeded with little to no trouble. He does this in Unleashed.
And in the game, he replies, "Light speed? That's small time. There's no challenge!" At first glance, it would seem that Sonic is saying that reaching light speed is no challenge, rather than exceeding it. However, when we look at the context of the conversation, we see that Omega is talking about exceeding light speed, implying that Sonic is also referring to exceeding light speed. Here's another example, to demonstrate my point:
Samus makes deliberate movement while using the light shaft and avoids face-planting as she travels from one region of Aether to the next. Samus must have nanosecond reaction time. This is supported by her ability to dodge wave beams as well. Nonsense. Link can outrun his own arrows in A Link to the Past using Pegasus boots. He must be running faster than 200 mi/h. Nonsense. LSD is 396 on the SPD. This must mean anything higher on the SPD is FTL. Nonsense. Something happening once is dubious because it's treated as an outlier and therefore, inconsistent. Something is a coincidence if it happens once. If it keeps happening, it's no longer coincidence. It's fact.
SPD is part of that.
I forgot to quote. I went back before you posted, which means you quoted me before I went back to correct it, but not posting until after I corrected it.
So? Boosting is boosting. You'd need to prove the wisp energy is weaker than the ring energy.
Or it's hubris.
Again, that's hubris. Now, let's say Runner B said, "A mile? That's small time. There's no challenge!" If that's not hubris, I don't know what is.