Who needs help with Combos, Damages, Advanced Tactics for Falco, etc.

[Secks.]

Thanks for everyone thats been helping others out(Especially Scotu, I see alot of his posting helping others out )

BTW, just got back from a tournament yesterday. People who are interested in seeing matches of DaShizWiz vs Forward should check it out. He was in Florida for the tournament.

70 people entered. When the matches come out I'll let you guys know. Right now some matches are up from the tournament which are in the Tournament Videos section under LTEC2. Check it out.

Who won the tourney? What were the placings?

 

[Pye]

Well, it kinda depends on who YOU have trouble against. If you tend to get ***** by chaingrabbing Marths, then a secondary Shiek is a good idea, because Shiek has an advantage over Marth. But if you do fine against Marth, but have problems against, say, Peaches, then maybe a good secondary for you would be Marth or Fox. It's all personal.

Also, wether you do a single shine or a doubleshine dosn't often make a difference. Shiz uses them because he can, lol, and quite frankly, if I could, I'd use them too.

EDIT: Just so my question dosn't get lost, I'm going to put it here too. What are the advantages of approaching with SHL to nair instead of a dair? Many Falcos say to do so, so there must be a reason.

 

[Handorin]

Who won the tourney? What were the placings?

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=108786
Results thread. Some good falcos did very well.

 

[DaShizWiz]

Well, it is best to do Nairs other than Dairs to certain characters because the Nair has a larger and longer hitbox which can be better than the Dair.

*Example*, your fighting a marth that is shielding. You do a Dair and he shield grabs you. The reason this happens is because the Dair knocks the shield back in range for Marth to grab you. But if you do a Nair it will knock his shield a little back, but it wont let you get shield grabbed if you L-cancel then Shine quickly. Nair is a better option vs Marth's and Sheiks for sure.


And to the guy that asked for results. This is the Top 5.

1. Shiz
2. Forward
3. KeepSpeedN
4. SheikSSBM
5. Lambchops
5. Chaddd

And to the people that are wondering about me beating Forward. I came from the losers bracket and I won in two sets. Because I forfeited to KeepSpeedN earlier in the bracket to fight Forward .

 

[SCOTU]

As for doubleshines, they aren't particularly useful, but they look **** cool (and they do actually have their uses if you can do them fluently enough. See prosmashertim, though Falco's doubleshines aren't anywhere near as good as Fox's).

Yes, and no. They aren't particularly useful, but they are more useful than fox's (they do more against shields than fox's, although fox's has longer stun time relative to jump speed.) I just use them w/ fox because it's really cool to do so. And it heps to mix it up between shine grabbing, and doubleshine grabbing.

Edit: Shiz, i have a really awesome fox combo on falco (that's shiz quality) i'll have to show you at FC (so you get a sneak peek before i release it on the boards)

 

[Salaad]

For LHDL, I can't get the two shots off before I fall. I fall off the stage too..I read your post Scotu, it helped a lot.

 

[SCOTU]

the trick to getting 2 lasers, and to making it to the stage, is that after jumping, you have to start pressing b asap. the faster you press b after jumping, the better. Once you start pressing b, you just have to press it once more. After pressing b the first time, you can use the control stick again to move yourself over the stage w/o fear of the phantasm. just make sure you press b asap after jumping.

 

[clowsui]

had this problem a lot too. i jump with x but my only use of y is for lhdl and doubleshine post-ko showoff
since you're just fullhopping, you don't have any fear of not jumping right. just drop down, press y and quickly move your thumb to b. press, tilt your control stick so that you di onto the stage then press. it's very simple. just practice how to get a standard height (shl height) lhdl first. then start timing your jump so that you can get low lasers too.

 

[MrBitter]

When I LHDL, I use the control stick to jump.

Press down, immediately press up, b, b.

One thing to think about while practicing LHDL... You want your first laser to come out as you're moving up. The second should come out right after you start to fall back down.

 

[_kSo_]

2 things

1.) while your hitting b, hold right (or left, whichever way your are going onstage)
2.) your first laser should look like it is shot as you are rising off your jump, that way the second one can come out. otherwise you'll get one laser thats probably too high to do anything anyway

 

[Handorin]

you should barley see his jump/flip animation if at all.

 

[teeman92]

what is pillaring?
how do i SHL?
everything!

 

[Demoyoshi]

Do you really need shine combos? i only wavedash to get space and SHL a couple of times and then go near whit SHL's and use nair bair uair or dair. mostly uair. works alot since ive only trained how to get space from opponent

 

[MrBitter]

Teeman:

Read the stickies, and the other threads in the forum. SHL and Pillaring are two of the most commonly addressed questions in this forum.

Demoyoshi:

You don't really need shine combos, or wavedashing, or SHL, or any of the advanced techniques if you're not playing at an advanced level. If I were to take a stab as to what your play level is based on your question... I'd say that it's not very advanced.

Read the stickies and watch some of the Falco vids. If you can't see the benefit of SHL and shine combos after having done so, then I would recommend picking up Marth.

 

[Shaeman111]

Who are the best victims for falco's pillar??
(I know fox is AWFUL) XD

 

[Leoneri]

I believe that Fox, Falco, and Marth(?) Are the worst victims, I know of Fox and Falco because they can shine too instead of having to shield grab, which is why it is better to JC Shine > JC Grab them because it mixes things up a bit.

Btw what I posted was trying to go off of memory of what someone before me has said. So it could be seriously wrong.

 

[MrBitter]

Who are the best victims for falco's pillar??
(I know fox is AWFUL) XD

*sigh*

Please read this:
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=108512

I think you mean "Who is most susceptible to shine combos / Up-Down combos?".

To which I would answer "Any fast faller.". Fox is especially vulnerable to shine combos because he falls faster than other characters, and when being juggled, doesn't recover as easily as more floaty characters do.

Captain Falcon is also fairly easy to juggle mercilessly, as are other Falcos.

Beyond these 3, the rule of thumb becomes: The more floaty the character, the harder they are to continuously combo. So characters like Link, Pikachu and Mario, who aren't fast fallers, but also aren't super floaty, are pretty consistently comboable. On the other hand, characters like Jigglypuff, Peach, Zelda or Luigi, are very floaty, making them less chain-comboable.

Random side note. Comboable is my new word for the day.

 

[Shaeman111]

*sigh*

Please read this:
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=108512

I think you mean "Who is most susceptible to shine combos / Up-Down combos?".

To which I would answer "Any fast faller.". Fox is especially vulnerable to shine combos because he falls faster than other characters, and when being juggled, doesn't recover as easily as more floaty characters do.

Captain Falcon is also fairly easy to juggle mercilessly, as are other Falcos.

Beyond these 3, the rule of thumb becomes: The more floaty the character, the harder they are to continuously combo. So characters like Link, Pikachu and Mario, who aren't fast fallers, but also aren't super floaty, are pretty consistently comboable. On the other hand, characters like Jigglypuff, Peach, Zelda or Luigi, are very floaty, making them less chain-comboable.

Random side note. Comboable is my new word for the day.

That makes perfect sence. So what's the difference between a fast faller and a heavy character?

 

[Junpappy]

Fast fallers fall fast (duh) and heavy characters are knocked back less than lighter characters.

 

[terr13]

Look at M2k's list. Bowser, DK, etc. are heavy, but don't fall fast. Falco, Fox, etc. fall fast, but aren't heavy. Completely different things

 

[Glowfisch]

Hi,

I’m was searching for some good combos for a match against a marth player
So if u have good trick’s ore Advanced Tactics plxx tell me

And I need an easy way to learn to use the platforms on a field like battle field
… I normally play fd.
So plxx some tips how to do that

Ty.

 

[MrBitter]

For Marth tricks, try the character matchup thread stickied at the top of the Falco forum:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=95998

There is no easy way to learn platform tricks. Just practice.

I try to work on my platform wavelanding for 10-15 minutes every day. In two weeks I've noticed a huge increase in the percentage of wavelands I pull off.

When I practice I go to vs. mode, select a human opponent and go to Battlefield and just practice jumping between every platform, trying to waveland every time.

 

[MrBitter]

That makes perfect sence. So what's the difference between a fast faller and a heavy character?

Glad to have helped.

The first two replies to your question were correct, but to elaborate a little bit...

There are really only 3 fast fallers. Fox, Falco and Captain Falcon. They are fast characters, period. Everything they do is accelerated. Including falling. The speed at which they fall is not based on their weight. It's just how they were designed. While any character's fall speed can be accelerated by pressing down at the peak of their jump, Fox, Falco and Captain Falcon all fall the fastest. Hence the term fast faller.

A characters weight is more an indicator of how easy it is to KO that character to either side of, or to the top of the screen. The heavier the character, the more punishment they are able to take before they are sent flying into oblivion. This is usually offset by a slower moveset, though.

DK and Bowser are two great examples, but Samus is also a very heavy character. You'll notice that all 3 of these characters are slow on their feet, and require much different play styles than that of a fast and furious Fox or Falco.

 

[Miharu]

Roy and DK are pseudo-fast fallers.

 

[K.C. Cloud]

Yo shiz, I got some vids I'm gonna put up like next week, I'd appreciate it if you checked like 2 of them out when I get them up.

Also good **** manz, can't wait to play you again.

Though the next time we play it might be on brawl, so we'll have to melee falco ditto for some added fun lol.

 

[HAKU]

I just want to know how do you do double shine? I see your vids and I can hear them but can't see them happening

Thanks,

 

[Handorin]

Double shining is another way of saying you did two JCed (jump canceled) shines. You shine, jump, and shine before Falco leaves the ground. Dont know the frame data, but I think it's around 6 frames. To start, just try jumping and shining part without the first shine.

 

[Evil E.]

I am trying to get UBER good can anyone help??
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bgzXmbpXCk

 

[lexxil]

laijin lol

 

[TheZhuKeeper]

I just want to know how do you do double shine? I see your vids and I can hear them but can't see them happening

Thanks,

hold down, press B and immediately slide your thumb from Y to B. for falco, there is a timing to this. you want to get from B -> Y as quickly as you can but you will have to slightly slow down the sliding from Y -> B a little bit in comparison to fox's JC shine.

 

[Enzyme]

I'm really not one to critique, but I noticed you grabbed after some laggy moves of Link's. Falco's grabs really aren't very good, and a fsmash would have been a KO. Think I saw it happen twice.

 

[SCOTU]

Try to work in some better shield pressure, make sure you edgeguard effectively (and edgehog), and utilize edge invincibility better/more.

 

[HAKU]

hold down, press B and immediately slide your thumb from Y to B. for falco, there is a timing to this. you want to get from B -> Y as quickly as you can but you will have to slightly slow down the sliding from Y -> B a little bit in comparison to fox's JC shine.

ok thanks! but one thing that is need to be Y or can it be X? because I use X for all the jumping stuff

 

[monkey and co.]

me got a question!!!

has anyone considered doing a shine -> jumpcancelled charged usmash?? to a fastfaller (or at least fox)

i tried it and when fox is at 0 percent u can hit him before he even reaches the peak of his jump. now if someone could cancelled the shine like extremely fast is it possible to hit an opponent at like 20 %??

o btw a shine-uncharged usmash is 17 damage. nothing much but who nos XD

 

[Miharu]

There's better stuff to do than shine -> jc usmash.

 

[terr13]

I don't think it would lead to as much damage as doing a regular combo, and I think it's easier to DI.

 

[monkey and co.]

haha yah yah i no
but i've never heard anything about it.
:D well possibilities

 

[Afo]

I was going to start a thead about this, but theres to much "i need help with ______"already...

So here it goes... I main Falco and Marth, second Jiggly, about 1 month ago I picked up Fox (who I have never been able to get a hold of), but this time aroud things started to work, waveshining isn´t 2 much of a deal, I´m starting to SHDL, I L-cancel around 70 % of the time (d-air is the one giving me trouble), and I´m able to win consistently against my friends, well I guess you get the picture..
The thing is NOW my Falco game is officially crap, my wavedash is off-time, he seems sluggish, I can´t beat my freind´s Ganon (wich I usually owned) and this all seems weird 2 me bcs my marth game actually improved (l-cancel is now a piece of cake, much better control and reaction, starting to pull off new and better combos), My jiggs game is slightly better, but falco just seems two "slow" now and even somewhat "floaty" when I pick him after using fox...

Has this happened to anyone here???help please ....

 

[Afo]

**** sorry 4 double post, my bad****

 

[ICEIGHT]

My falco game is pretty good, i can land most of my Shffls and My blaster, but i cannot seem to create newer combos, all the combo's i have now are getting old and predictable

Please help me on new ideas for combo's